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Post by Cranky on Aug 1, 2019 19:18:46 GMT -5
Here is a link to the Doober Report. I'm not sure about their track record on prospects but for discussions......here goes.... (Click on it for a bigger picture, click on the link to go to the original page.)  I tend to agree with this assessment and it raises some concerns.... *Caufield is a "7" as far as making it in the NHL. I was and still concerned that it may be a mistake. Note his 8.5 fantasy rating but 7 probability of making in the NHL. I wanted Krebs as a "surefire" NHLer versus a high risk, high potential pick. Even Ryan Suzuki has a better NHL potential....and enormous incentive for both brothers to succeed. *Left and right wings are suspect. We seemed to stud the centers and have a lot of prospects there that can make it, but the wings are thin. Note their assessment of "8" on the fantasy scale. Translation, top 6 but not elite. *Defense looks OK with Juulsen, Romanov and Brooks as likely NHLers. My opinion and my opinion alone so I will not stand by it and change it at a whim! What's yours? dobberprospects.com/team/montreal-canadiens/ |
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 1, 2019 19:50:05 GMT -5
Not to concerned about the wing positions. That is something easily filled by free agency or by shifting centers. Only thing that worries me is no sure fire superstar for a team that has missed the playoffs for a few times now.
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 2, 2019 9:30:45 GMT -5
Uh yeah... I'm not so sure about their methodology there. For "NHL Certainty" they have Kotkaniemi at 9.0, and Poehling at 9.5. I get that 9.0 is pretty high... but Kotkaniemi is already an NHLer and I don't see that changing, so I have no idea how the odds of him making it are lower than Poehling's. For that matter, Victor Mete and Brett Kulak apparently have a lesser chance of making it to the NHL than Alexander Romanov. Now I like Romanov - I REALLY like Romanov - but Mete has already played 120 NHL games and should be considered an NHLer already, and Kulak has already played 158 and has a new three year NHL contract. So I'm not sure how they came up with those numbers, as they don't make much sense to me. MY personal ranking, which is worth the cyber-paper I am typing it on, would go like this: 1) Ryan Poehling: People keep talking about him as a future 3rd line center, but I think that's really under-selling him. I see Ryan O'Reilly potential in him, or maybe even Mikko Koivu. Somebody who isn't going to wow you with skill, but does everything right and somehow ends up with 60-70 points at the end of the year while playing in all situations. It's not what you would consider a #1 center because of the point totals, but the kind of of guy who does everything else so well that he's invaluable to the team. People point to his point totals, but check out the rest of that St. Cloud team - it was very good in terms of depth, but not elite NHL prospects. Last year he was the only NHL draft pick on the team (though teams signed Jimmy Schuldt as an NCAA free agent), and before that there was only one former 5th round pick on his team. Any time he has played with top-level players he has put up points (Ivan Hlinka, WJC, USDP, and of course with the Canadiens). 2) Alexander Romanov: I would call him 1B on my prospect list. I keep going back to this list of Best Players at the WJC and wonder what we are missing? How do Romanov (and Poehling) end up on such star-studded lists if we only view them as mid-level players? I'll admit that I haven't seen Romanov a lot, but in the games I did see him in at the WJC he reminded me a lot of Ryan McDonagh. Freakishly strong for his size, and while he's capable of laying out the big hits, the true benefit of his strength is simply going into the corner, pushing someone off the puck, and coming out with it. Or in front of the net. I also think he's got some hidden offensive talent in him, and like McDonagh could surprise with 40+ point seasons, while playing 22 minutes a night. Getting the ice-time he's getting in the KHL is extremely rare for someone his age, so somebody sees something in him. 3) Nick Suzuki: The heir apparent to Tomas Tatar. Not elite, but more than capable of playing in your top six. 4) Cayden Primeau: Another guy I think we're sleeping on. He was chosen as Team America's 3rd goalie at the World Championship, which is ridiculous considering his age and the other NHL American goalies that could have gone. They're clearly grooming him for future international competition, which tells me that like Romanov they see a world of potential in him. 5) Cole Caufield: I haven't seen him play, so I'm going off of YouTube videos. The bloggers think this is a steal, and that he's a future 40 goal scorer, but I'm a little skeptical. Future 40 goal scorers are ranked top 3, no matter what their size is, whereas Bob McKenzie's consensus ranking from the guys who do this for a living (NHL scouts) only had him 9th. So there is concern there for me. But 72 goals is 72 goals. From the videos I watched he's not going to be one of those all-around guys, but if you've got somebody with elite vision, say a 6'3 Finnish center, Caufield will get open and score. He reminded me of Michael Ryder, and while that may seem like damnation by faint praise, Ryder was one of the most under-appreciated 30 goal scorers of all time. If Caufield can turn into a regular 30-35 goal scorer I think that would be pretty good. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 2, 2019 13:56:10 GMT -5
BC,
The score for "nhl certainty" can be from older, rookie writeups. If you were going to look at that score at 18-19, it makes sense.
On a deep team, Mete is an injury replacement, paper airplane making rookie. Romanov looks far more of the NHL real deal then Mete would look.
Unless he pots more then a few, I'm not sold on Mete as anything more then third pairing.
Poehling....I a absolutely agree. It's not the 4 goals in one game that impressed me, it's the ability to do score them with ease. Mete can't buy a single goal to save his life, Poehling has them jump off his stick. One or two can be luck, not 4. Now having said that, I doubt he's a 40 goal natural, but.....
Your player comparison is exactly like mine. I wanted RoR (and Kadri) because they bring a 200 foot game and hard to play against. Their 30 goals is far, far more valuable then Patrik Laines 40+ and -24. Last but not least, Poehling may land up as a more valuable player then KK. And that may show up as early as this season. Maybe.
KK drop on the second half concerns me. Sure, he's only 18, but let's not forget he's 18. Recovery from a tough game is a good night's sleep. Maybe two if you include the after effects of too much pizza and beer. Not saying that he doesn't have "potential", but I'm cautious about any grand declarations. I'm going to be concerned if he drops even more from the end of last season. VERY concerned.
Romanov.....wait until we see him in the AHL. The KHL is a step lower overall then the AHL so my opinion will remain reserved until we see him break an NHLer. Too many times those sure fire NHLers land up not being able to bring it to the NHL level. I would be less concerned if he was bigger or had elite skating.
Remember Komi? Hollywood Hainsey? The hype was a mountain of smoke.
Tell you what, if Suzuki/Romanov/Poehling were in Hamilton (Bulldogs), I would be highly motivated to do a scouting series. I can't believe the last scouting reports were an entire NHL career ago. Getting ****** old.....
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 2, 2019 16:43:42 GMT -5
KK drop on the second half concerns me. Sure, he's only 18, but let's not forget he's 18. Recovery from a tough game is a good night's sleep. Maybe two if you include the after effects of too much pizza and beer. Not saying that he doesn't have "potential", but I'm cautious about any grand declarations. I'm going to be concerned if he drops even more from the end of last season. VERY concerned. That was Jesperi Kotkaniemi's first exposure to the NHL ... I remember Claude Julien saying in one of his scrums that he'd already had a talk with JK to let him know what to expect in the second half of the season ... the games get tougher to play as the playoffs get closer and he wanted to make sure JK understood that ... his performance did significantly dip in the second half and your concern is a valid one ... I'm not sure if it was the increased intensity and physical play or it's something else ... The KHL isn't all that kind to rookies ... I remember reading it somewhere, or maybe I heard it on a TSN panel, but Alex Romanov loses ice time to the veterans ... I guess that's the way it's done in the KHL and it might hold him back a bit once he comes over to North America ... I'm not saying it will happen, only that, IMO, the KHL is holding Romanov back ... again, just an opinion ... Ron Hainsey wasn't all that bad a d-man, but Mike Komisarek never lived up to his hype ... the media was very favourable on Komi, as well ... I remember you making the odd trip to Hamilton a few years back ... we had a few other brethren do the same a few years later ... can't believe we've been around this long ... son of a gun ... Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 2, 2019 18:50:02 GMT -5
Dis,
It wasn't a few years back...its from '03. 16 years ago. I remember writing about Pleks and how he was a suprise. His entire career came and went.
Getting old and crankier...sheesh
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Post by seventeen on Aug 3, 2019 2:02:23 GMT -5
Uh yeah... I'm not so sure about their methodology there. For "NHL Certainty" they have Kotkaniemi at 9.0, and Poehling at 9.5. I get that 9.0 is pretty high... but Kotkaniemi is already an NHLer and I don't see that changing, so I have no idea how the odds of him making it are lower than Poehling's. For that matter, Victor Mete and Brett Kulak apparently have a lesser chance of making it to the NHL than Alexander Romanov. Now I like Romanov - I REALLY like Romanov - but Mete has already played 120 NHL games and should be considered an NHLer already, and Kulak has already played 158 and has a new three year NHL contract. So I'm not sure how they came up with those numbers, as they don't make much sense to me. MY personal ranking, which is worth the cyber-paper I am typing it on, would go like this: 1) Ryan Poehling: People keep talking about him as a future 3rd line center, but I think that's really under-selling him. I see Ryan O'Reilly potential in him, or maybe even Mikko Koivu. Somebody who isn't going to wow you with skill, but does everything right and somehow ends up with 60-70 points at the end of the year while playing in all situations. It's not what you would consider a #1 center because of the point totals, but the kind of of guy who does everything else so well that he's invaluable to the team. People point to his point totals, but check out the rest of that St. Cloud team - it was very good in terms of depth, but not elite NHL prospects. Last year he was the only NHL draft pick on the team (though teams signed Jimmy Schuldt as an NCAA free agent), and before that there was only one former 5th round pick on his team. Any time he has played with top-level players he has put up points (Ivan Hlinka, WJC, USDP, and of course with the Canadiens). 2) Alexander Romanov: I would call him 1B on my prospect list. I keep going back to this list of Best Players at the WJC and wonder what we are missing? How do Romanov (and Poehling) end up on such star-studded lists if we only view them as mid-level players? I'll admit that I haven't seen Romanov a lot, but in the games I did see him in at the WJC he reminded me a lot of Ryan McDonagh. Freakishly strong for his size, and while he's capable of laying out the big hits, the true benefit of his strength is simply going into the corner, pushing someone off the puck, and coming out with it. Or in front of the net. I also think he's got some hidden offensive talent in him, and like McDonagh could surprise with 40+ point seasons, while playing 22 minutes a night. Getting the ice-time he's getting in the KHL is extremely rare for someone his age, so somebody sees something in him. 3) Nick Suzuki: The heir apparent to Tomas Tatar. Not elite, but more than capable of playing in your top six. 4) Cayden Primeau: Another guy I think we're sleeping on. He was chosen as Team America's 3rd goalie at the World Championship, which is ridiculous considering his age and the other NHL American goalies that could have gone. They're clearly grooming him for future international competition, which tells me that like Romanov they see a world of potential in him. 5) Cole Caufield: I haven't seen him play, so I'm going off of YouTube videos. The bloggers think this is a steal, and that he's a future 40 goal scorer, but I'm a little skeptical. Future 40 goal scorers are ranked top 3, no matter what their size is, whereas Bob McKenzie's consensus ranking from the guys who do this for a living (NHL scouts) only had him 9th. So there is concern there for me. But 72 goals is 72 goals. From the videos I watched he's not going to be one of those all-around guys, but if you've got somebody with elite vision, say a 6'3 Finnish center, Caufield will get open and score. He reminded me of Michael Ryder, and while that may seem like damnation by faint praise, Ryder was one of the most under-appreciated 30 goal scorers of all time. If Caufield can turn into a regular 30-35 goal scorer I think that would be pretty good. Oh well, so much for me expanding on anything. Yup.  |
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Post by folatre on Aug 3, 2019 8:12:59 GMT -5
Most of the guys going in the first round are kids who need work on positional play and defense overall. I am not saying Caufield is a lock to produce like a legit first line wing let alone to ever win a Maurice Richard Trophy, but I really think the reason Caufield went #15 in because he is 1.70 m and there is still a bias against small kids.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 3, 2019 11:36:53 GMT -5
Most of the guys going in the first round are kids who need work on positional play and defense overall. I am not saying Caufield is a lock to produce like a legit first line wing let alone to ever win a Maurice Richard Trophy, but I really think the reason Caufield went #15 in because he is 1.70 m and there is still a bias against small kids. Agree! Caufield and Drouin are capable of putting the puck in the net. They have done it in the past, but there are no guarantees. Hope they don’t start to produce until after Bergevin is gone.. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 3, 2019 23:43:01 GMT -5
We need 1 more really bad year and then we should be on the right track. I would seriously look at trading any vets making over 5 million at the trade deadline to free up as much cap space as possible. Then I start signing players on their elc's or second contracts to 8 yeardeals aka Domi, Kotkaniemi, Juulsen and Mete.
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Post by Cranky on Aug 8, 2019 16:17:09 GMT -5
We need 1 more really bad year and then we should be on the right track. I would seriously look at trading any vets making over 5 million at the trade deadline to free up as much cap space as possible. Then I start signing players on their elc's or second contracts to 8 yeardeals aka Domi, Kotkaniemi, Juulsen and Mete. There has to be 3-4 years of proof before 8 years of potential "oops". I'm not sold on any current young player worth any long term contract. Even Domi may be a 20 goal 40 point, 3rd line turnip. KK is currently a third liner, Mete is top 6 and Juulsen has proven nothing. The last "no brainer" was PK and he won the Norris. Wait...until we are reasonably sure they are worth long term contracts. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 8, 2019 21:57:11 GMT -5
Sorry not buying what you are selling. Domi 54 to 58 million for 8 years is a bargain. 50 point players are getting 6 million now. He is atleast that kind of player. And Mete 24 million over 8 years isn't bad.
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Post by GNick99 on Aug 25, 2019 8:36:59 GMT -5
Uh yeah... I'm not so sure about their methodology there. For "NHL Certainty" they have Kotkaniemi at 9.0, and Poehling at 9.5. I get that 9.0 is pretty high... but Kotkaniemi is already an NHLer and I don't see that changing, so I have no idea how the odds of him making it are lower than Poehling's. For that matter, Victor Mete and Brett Kulak apparently have a lesser chance of making it to the NHL than Alexander Romanov. Now I like Romanov - I REALLY like Romanov - but Mete has already played 120 NHL games and should be considered an NHLer already, and Kulak has already played 158 and has a new three year NHL contract. So I'm not sure how they came up with those numbers, as they don't make much sense to me. MY personal ranking, which is worth the cyber-paper I am typing it on, would go like this: 1) Ryan Poehling: People keep talking about him as a future 3rd line center, but I think that's really under-selling him. I see Ryan O'Reilly potential in him, or maybe even Mikko Koivu. Somebody who isn't going to wow you with skill, but does everything right and somehow ends up with 60-70 points at the end of the year while playing in all situations. It's not what you would consider a #1 center because of the point totals, but the kind of of guy who does everything else so well that he's invaluable to the team. People point to his point totals, but check out the rest of that St. Cloud team - it was very good in terms of depth, but not elite NHL prospects. Last year he was the only NHL draft pick on the team (though teams signed Jimmy Schuldt as an NCAA free agent), and before that there was only one former 5th round pick on his team. Any time he has played with top-level players he has put up points (Ivan Hlinka, WJC, USDP, and of course with the Canadiens). 2) Alexander Romanov: I would call him 1B on my prospect list. I keep going back to this list of Best Players at the WJC and wonder what we are missing? How do Romanov (and Poehling) end up on such star-studded lists if we only view them as mid-level players? I'll admit that I haven't seen Romanov a lot, but in the games I did see him in at the WJC he reminded me a lot of Ryan McDonagh. Freakishly strong for his size, and while he's capable of laying out the big hits, the true benefit of his strength is simply going into the corner, pushing someone off the puck, and coming out with it. Or in front of the net. I also think he's got some hidden offensive talent in him, and like McDonagh could surprise with 40+ point seasons, while playing 22 minutes a night. Getting the ice-time he's getting in the KHL is extremely rare for someone his age, so somebody sees something in him. 3) Nick Suzuki: The heir apparent to Tomas Tatar. Not elite, but more than capable of playing in your top six. 4) Cayden Primeau: Another guy I think we're sleeping on. He was chosen as Team America's 3rd goalie at the World Championship, which is ridiculous considering his age and the other NHL American goalies that could have gone. They're clearly grooming him for future international competition, which tells me that like Romanov they see a world of potential in him. 5) Cole Caufield: I haven't seen him play, so I'm going off of YouTube videos. The bloggers think this is a steal, and that he's a future 40 goal scorer, but I'm a little skeptical. Future 40 goal scorers are ranked top 3, no matter what their size is, whereas Bob McKenzie's consensus ranking from the guys who do this for a living (NHL scouts) only had him 9th. So there is concern there for me. But 72 goals is 72 goals. From the videos I watched he's not going to be one of those all-around guys, but if you've got somebody with elite vision, say a 6'3 Finnish center, Caufield will get open and score. He reminded me of Michael Ryder, and while that may seem like damnation by faint praise, Ryder was one of the most under-appreciated 30 goal scorers of all time. If Caufield can turn into a regular 30-35 goal scorer I think that would be pretty good. I have Poehlin #1 also. I don't have them ranked actually but he be high on my list. Poehlin I can't see not making NHL. He has size and speed. Gives him an edge transition to NHL. Generally you get speed but small, or strength but rarely both. Decent to solid offensive skill. Works hard, good at both ends, plays the game right, does the little things well. Scouting could be under selling him. Suzuki has a wicked shot, love his shot. Not that it is heavy but quick and accurate. He's got great offensive instincts. He's been working on his skating this summer? If it improves could see future first line. I think he has first line hands. A few years down the road but can see a Suzuki/Koktaniemi/Caufield first line for many seasons in Montreal. No way to know if he is ready until see him in a game however. If he's not ready then hope Bouchard plays him at center with what should be a very good Laval team. But I am hoping he is NHL ready, Suzuki should bode well for our beleaguered powerplay. With his shot and scoring 42 pts in 24 playoff games while leading his team to an OHL championship last year. I was impressed. Brook I am higher on than they are. There were times last year I thought Brook could play pro. He'll push Petry at some point in near future. With draft in Montreal like to see Petry traded at draft for another first pick. Make a little thunder for Habs fans where draft is there. Petry has a list of 15 teams he can't be traded to. That and Bergevin you never know what he will do. If Poehlin and Suzuki do well this season, and with Caufield in the fold. Like to see a top 6 forward traded for another first pick. Either Drouin or Tatar. Which would give us 3 first picks, in other words; make a very interesting draft for us. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 25, 2019 20:45:11 GMT -5
Dis, It wasn't a few years back...its from '03. 16 years ago. I remember writing about Pleks and how he was a suprise. His entire career came and went. Looking at getting to Belleville on 7 & 8 Sep to see the Habs rookies do their thing ... Winnipeg and Ottawa (Belleville Senators) ... will be ordering tickets tomorrow ... Don't change a thing, man ... Cheers. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 29, 2019 20:12:26 GMT -5
A few years down the road but can see a Suzuki/Koktaniemi/Caufield first line for many seasons in Montreal. Would love to see that...That should make the PP better |
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