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Post by folatre on Aug 26, 2019 16:11:44 GMT -5
I am assuming that I am not alone and that there are probably many fathers and grandfathers here at HabsRus who have perceived that hockey is not the same pastime and passion that we grew up with.
Mostly gone are the short winter days on frozen ponds or the outdoor community rinks where we used to play with little or no adult supervision let alone coaching.
It is bad enough that team/league fees, skates, sticks, and gear cost so much. But the stretching of the formal hockey calendar for kids today is crazy. My son is only seven years old and he will be a third year Mite. My wife must have been reading some emails that she had not yet noticed from the league President and the coaches because when I got home this afternoon she was livid about the fact that Nico’s team starts practicing the first week he is back in school.
The gist of her analysis is that the kind of adults who structure a children’s activity in such a way that it involves coaching kids three days a week, seven months a year are obsessive and unhappy. I tried to counter a couple of the points, though ultimately elected to mostly keep my mouth shut.
What do you guys think? Is youth hockey one of those things that changed imperceptibly over time and thus everyone just sort of accepted it?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 26, 2019 18:09:00 GMT -5
One thing I've noticed over the years is that the fun in minor hockey is gradually disappearing more and more every year ... it's becoming more competitive at every level also ... the focus on having fun is there when the kids are starting out, but it wanes gradually every time the kids move up to a different competition level ... something else I've noticed, if you're middle class you might lucky if you can afford to keep your kid(s) in house league hockey ... if the kids ever get selected for rep hockey then the costs start adding up ... travel expenses, hotels, meals, etc ... case in point, I reconnected with a lot of people at my high school reunion back in 2006 ... one of those guys asked me if we could put him and his son up for a tournament here in town ... I had to clear it through Mrs. Dis, but he wouldn't have been able to afford the hotels had we not put them up ... that's very common, folatre, and (competitive) hockey has been gradually getting more and more expensive every year ... I know some parents who took their kids out of hockey because it became too darn expensive ... parents will have to shell out the bucks if they want their kid anywhere near the NHL and that eliminates a lot of kids ... we had some discussion on some outdoor rinks a little while back and they were a big part of my youth ... Larry Robinson sometimes refers to how he got started and it all began on those outdoor rinks ... Guy Lafleur used to go to bed in his equipment and hockey sweater on just so he could get up early and sneak into the local rink ... as an aside, every year my neighbour clears off a rink on the creek that runs out back of our house ... the kids still love it, but I don't see any future NHLers  ... Cheers. |
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Post by franko on Aug 26, 2019 19:45:07 GMT -5
Good move on the zipped lip. Sometimes -- ok,most times -- that's the best thing to do.
Kids hockey has become monetized, pure and simple. And maybe some coaches and associations are to blame, but I look first to the parents who push their kids to be their retirement plan. And isn't that part of Drouin's problem? Didn't he once say that he really didn't care about hockey but that his father "encouraged" him?
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 26, 2019 19:54:22 GMT -5
I am assuming that I am not alone and that there are probably many fathers and grandfathers here at HabsRus who have perceived that hockey is not the same pastime and passion that we grew up with. I agree bud... its all gone, That is going away because of insurance concerns.. people sue over everything My colleague is the only breadwinner and has 1 kid in hockey and it's very difficult for them... He was thrilled when he realized he could adjust the helmet to make it bigger.... It's really out of control, between sports and school work, kids are forgetting how to have fun. Absolutely... it's become impossible to avoid the cost... an out of town tournament can run 500 to 800 for the weekend... a lot of house league teams have 3 or 4 tourneys... and competitive... forget about it your looking at 7 or 8, plus fundraising, plus league and team fees... plus you get a bunch if parents who volunteer on the competative team so their kid is guaranteed to make it... it has become something it was not intended to become... big business... |
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Post by folatre on Aug 26, 2019 20:11:12 GMT -5
Good stuff, guys. For sure, times change.
It probably was in non-hockey related thread on the site, but as Dis makes reference of, I recall reading some of the members here reflecting on how childhood used to be far freer and less structured overall. I know there are pros and cons, of course. Maybe the world we live in is not quite as safe as it used to be, who knows. But one cannot help but wonder if it is a good idea to have hyper-focused parents over-working kids and taking the natural fun out of the game.
I remember hearing Bobby Orr talking this summer about how kids are over-exposed to too many months of competitive hockey and that he feels it would be better for kids to play a shorter season, play other sports and just get time off to be kids.
It's a tough call. My son loves being on the ice and he is an outstanding skater and he would skate two hours five or six days a week if that was possible. But he is not keen on absorbing coaching and honestly the light bulb has not clicked on for him in terms of his spatial awareness of teammates, passing the puck, etc. It's a dilemma because my wife is not wrong when she says why are we (not we specifically the Folatre family but we in a societal sense) being so serious about something that is basically a game for kids to enjoy.
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Post by Cranky on Aug 26, 2019 20:13:38 GMT -5
I have no problem monetizing it.....in fact.... I'm thinking of buying some genetically engineered test tube babies from Russia (although China is speeding ahead) and training them 24/7/365 to be hockey players. Yes, I thought about the higher returns with football, but even I can't subject children to such punishment. Besides, I never heard of any good Russian football players. BTW, when I say football, I mean the REAL football, break-a-lot-of-bones football, not those sock wearing namby pamby stuff those Euros are playing. The silly things we did back then like.....going out on our own until evening and playing street hockey until we dropped, sporting lots of cuts and bruises from violent acts of fun, or my cousin spending hundreds, yes HUNDREDS putting his kid in organized hockey are all dead and gone. GONZO. Thankfully, now, it's only the rich and investors who can afford to put their kids in monetized organized hockey. So who's with me in my GeneticBaby Hockey Investment Inc?  |
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Post by folatre on Aug 26, 2019 20:20:16 GMT -5
Talent may only take you so far, is that Kuznetzov baby foto?
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Post by Cranky on Aug 26, 2019 20:30:45 GMT -5
Good stuff, guys. For sure, times change. It probably was in non-hockey related thread on the site, but as Dis makes reference of, I recall reading some of the members here reflecting on how childhood used to be far freer and less structured overall. I know there are pros and cons, of course. Maybe the world we live in is not quite as safe as it used to be, who knows. But one cannot help but wonder if it is a good idea to have hyper-focused parents over-working kids and taking the natural fun out of the game. I remember hearing Bobby Orr talking this summer about how kids are over-exposed to too many months of competitive hockey and that he feels it would be better for kids to play a shorter season, play other sports and just get time off to be kids. It's a tough call. My son loves being on the ice and he is an outstanding skater and he would skate two hours five or six days a week if that was possible. But he is not keen on absorbing coaching and honestly the light bulb has not clicked on for him in terms of his spatial awareness of teammates, passing the puck, etc. It's a dilemma because my wife is not wrong when she says why are we (not we specifically the Folatre family but we in a societal sense) being so serious about something that is basically a game for kids to enjoy. The problem is that some parents are spending so much swea and treasure that hey start to see it as an investment. My barber (and part time dentist) always talked about his kid but he let in, always as a joke, maybe if he gets to the big leagues he wont forget his dad. It was a joke....that like the big lie, after it's repeated too many time, it's perceived reality. Then there are the fathers who were wannabes and never got past lacing their skates. They are living their fantasies through their children. Meanwhile, little JeanGuy Smithopoulos just wants to play a bit of hockey between his phone-a-thons. So I don't think it's changed all that much......but for the costs. The biggest difference is what we could do back then on our own....and Mr and Mrs Overprotective parent world today. |
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Post by franko on Aug 26, 2019 20:45:50 GMT -5
it's become impossible to avoid the cost... an out of town tournament can run 500 to 800 for the weekend... a lot of house league teams have 3 or 4 tourneys... and competitive... forget about it your looking at 7 or 8, plus fundraising, plus league and team fees... plus you get a bunch if parents who volunteer on the competative team so their kid is guaranteed to make it... it has become something it was not intended to become... big business... don't know if I've told this story before (let's face it, I probably have) but years ago we lived in a ski area and instead of hockey we directed my son to skiing even though he had may have had natural some talent. all well and good for a couple of years but when he was in grade 3 or 4 he realized that a lot of his friends were away weekends at hockey tournaments. so he asked if he could join a team and go with them. before I could utter a word Mrs. franko asked "who do you think pays for all of that (the hotels, the food the travel, the equipment, the . . .)?" his reply: the coachwelcome to real life, kid, enjoy your day on the hill! |
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 26, 2019 21:24:07 GMT -5
it's become impossible to avoid the cost... an out of town tournament can run 500 to 800 for the weekend... a lot of house league teams have 3 or 4 tourneys... and competitive... forget about it your looking at 7 or 8, plus fundraising, plus league and team fees... plus you get a bunch if parents who volunteer on the competative team so their kid is guaranteed to make it... it has become something it was not intended to become... big business... don't know if I've told this story before (let's face it, I probably have) but years ago we lived in a ski area and instead of hockey we directed my son to skiing even though he had may have had natural some talent. all well and good for a couple of years but when he was in grade 3 or 4 he realized that a lot of his friends were away weekends at hockey tournaments. so he asked if he could join a team and go with them. before I could utter a word Mrs. franko asked "who do you think pays for all of that (the hotels, the food the travel, the equipment, the . . .)?" his reply: the coachwelcome to real life, kid, enjoy your day on the hill! True dat my friend... true dat... |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 26, 2019 21:51:14 GMT -5
There are always choices. If you want your kid to have fun and participate there are house leagues. Unfortunately some parents think they have the next Crosby in their genes. If a kid wants to be elite, the best he has to compete with other kids that also want excellence. To just keep up takes a monumental effort. Games are seldom won on the ice, they are won on the practice rink, the weight room, the track. Skating requires a coach to improve edge work, stride, knee bends and explosive stride. If you want your child to attend medical school he/she has to compete with kids spending hours in Kumon. If we don’t keep up the Russians, Koreans and Chinese will be happy to bypass us. Choices.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 26, 2019 21:52:44 GMT -5
There are always choices. If you want your kid to have fun and participate there are house leagues. Unfortunately some parents think they have the next Crosby in their genes. If a kid wants to be elite, the best he has to compete with other kids that also want excellence. To just keep up takes a monumental effort. Games are seldom won on the ice, they are won on the practice rink, the weight room, the track. Skating requires a coach to improve edge work, stride, knee bends and explosive stride. If you want your child to attend medical school he/she has to compete with kids spending hours in Kumon. If we don’t keep up the Russians, Koreans and Chinese will be happy to bypass us. Choices.
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Post by BadCompany on Aug 27, 2019 14:27:45 GMT -5
Good move on the zipped lip. Sometimes -- ok,most times -- that's the best thing to do. Kids hockey has become monetized, pure and simple. And maybe some coaches and associations are to blame, but I look first to the parents who push their kids to be their retirement plan. And isn't that part of Drouin's problem? Didn't he once say that he really didn't care about hockey but that his father "encouraged" him? You're thinking of Alexandre Daigle. Drouin's dad never forced him into anything, and apparently Drouin didn't even start playing organized hockey until he was 8. montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/stu-cowan-skating-didnt-come-easy-for-canadiens-jonathan-drouinDrouin was asked if the fact his father didn’t push him into organized hockey when he was young might have helped him in the end.
“Maybe it did,” Drouin said. “He was always: ‘Whatever you want to do.’ I played tennis, I played golf. So for me, when I decided it was hockey it was hockey for him as well and he pushed me in a good way. He saw that I was having fun as a kid playing hockey and he saw I didn’t really like the skating part, so he pushed me a bit that way.”
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Post by jkr on Aug 27, 2019 15:05:32 GMT -5
One of my sons played two years of house league years ago(at ages 7 & 8). The 1st year was a blast. The coaches emphasized fun in the practices. You could play whatever position you wanted & even take a turn in goal. He came back the next year for a new coach who thought he was coaching an elite triple A group. There was one goalie & he played every game. Kids like my son who were just learning got put on D & told just get the puck off your stick ASAP. Whatever you do, don't think about carrying the puck out of your zone.
It just led to a lot of complaining. I'd stand with a group of fathers complaining about the amount of ice time their kid got, hw the coach was playing favorites ( he was) etc. It even led to a shouting match between the coach & a father in their tiny dressing room. The coach threw the kid off the team ( something he wasn't allowed to do) & was suspended. Great lessons for 8 year old kids, right?
When the team was eliminated in the 1st game of the playoffs, I thought good, this coach had it coming. My son was relieved his season was over & never went back to organized hockey.
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 27, 2019 18:38:56 GMT -5
One of my sons played two years of house league years ago(at ages 7 & 8). The 1st year was a blast. The coaches emphasized fun in the practices. You could play whatever position you wanted & even take a turn in goal. He came back the next year for a new coach who thought he was coaching an elite triple A group. There was one goalie & he played every game. Kids like my son who were just learning got put on D & told just get the puck off your stick ASAP. Whatever you do, don't think about carrying the puck out of your zone. It just led to a lot of complaining. I'd stand with a group of fathers complaining about the amount of ice time their kid got, hw the coach was playing favorites ( he was) etc. It even led to a shouting match between the coach & a father in their tiny dressing room. The coach threw the kid off the team ( something he wasn't allowed to do) & was suspended. Great lessons for 8 year old kids, right? When the team was eliminated in the 1st game of the playoffs, I thought good, this coach had it coming. My son was relieved his season was over & never went back to organized hockey. All it takes is one asshole to ruin it. |
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Post by folatre on Aug 28, 2019 10:08:18 GMT -5
Thankfully, we have not had any issues with the coaches or the way they work with the kids. Granted, in my son's first two Mite seasons they did not play with goalies or keep score.
A couple of years ago when my nephew moved up to Bantam, he had a real a@@hat of a coach. My nephew was by far the biggest kid on the team, though slow and soft, and this guy wanted him to throw his weight around. One time the jerk was in his face on the bench saying the next time I put you out there I better see a mad dog in a meat market or it'll be the last shift you f*** play today.
My sister was irate. She waited for him in the parking lot after the game and told him off. She was like what kind of a deranged adult talks to kids that way and gets so riled up by a game of hockey.
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 28, 2019 11:34:33 GMT -5
Thankfully, we have not had any issues with the coaches or the way they work with the kids. Granted, in my son's first two Mite seasons they did not play with goalies or keep score. A couple of years ago when my nephew moved up to Bantam, he had a real a@@hat of a coach. My nephew was by far the biggest kid on the team, though slow and soft, and this guy wanted him to throw his weight around. One time the jerk was in his face on the bench saying the next time I put you out there I better see a mad dog in a meat market or it'll be the last shift you f*** play today. My sister was irate. She waited for him in the parking lot after the game and told him off. She was like what kind of a deranged adult talks to kids that way and gets so riled up by a game of hockey. She should have kicked him in the gigglestick! |
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Post by clear observer on Aug 28, 2019 11:46:56 GMT -5
If you take the fun out of it, you take the love out of it.
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Post by folatre on Aug 28, 2019 19:25:17 GMT -5
If you take the fun out of it, you take the love out of it. CO, that's it. Well said. |
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