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Post by franko on Apr 11, 2020 13:19:03 GMT -5
The Atlantic is as far left as it gets and a permanent hate-on for Trump. lol I read the url as from the athletic and wondered why they were commenting as they were. |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 11, 2020 13:31:58 GMT -5
Staggering the numbers of American who got infected. Broke 500,000 yesterday. By far the most of any country. Italy and Spain are next around 150,000 each. Which is more than 3 times. Why did USA get hit so much harder than all those other countries? look at it as percent of population: Spain, Switzerland and Italy tiop the list, US is seventh (figures a coupla days old). www.statista.combut the easy answer: a feeling of invincibility. First....thing to remember, population. The US has 331 million vs spain with 46 and Italy with 60. Second....the State vs Federal powers define the U and S of USA. I am not surprised at the clusterquacking for different states going their own way. The only way there would be a coordinated response was for Trump to go nuclear and make it so political in the Republican states, that the governors had to follow him. That would piss off the governors, remember, theiy think they have as much power as the federal government. Some things look obvious to us, it's not as obvious in the USA. We have to go way back to 1772 and remember that it was independent states agreeing to a federal government...not a federal government breaking up ghe country into states. Yes, it's 2020, but that hasn't diminished the power of the states. Of course...Congress can give the president powers that could override the states, but good luck with that given the permanent animosity between the parties. Remember the Trump is a Dictator from democrats? It would of been hilarious if they had to give him those kinds of powers. The left would make sure it was the end of Democrats. Trump has failed in a system that was built to fail...literally. |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 11, 2020 14:10:46 GMT -5
The Atlantic is as far left as it gets and a permanent hate-on for Trump. lol I read the url as from the athletic and wondered why they were commenting as they were. Every article I ever read was always filtered by who, why, when Now those filters are 10 times thicker. Another thing....recognizing ones own bias. I know where I stand unequivocally, so I know what I'm reading is getting filtered by my bias. That is not always the case and conformation bias takes over. |
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Post by jkr on Apr 11, 2020 14:16:24 GMT -5
I'm baffled about the various reactions in the states. Some take it seriously and clamp down yet others leave it to their people.
Georgia just reopened their beaches & while recommended people attend church service online, they have not closed their churches. Kentucky has told people they can go to church services on Easter but they have to self isolate afterwards. They plan on recording plate numbers of attendees in an effort to control that.
In Kansas, the governor ordered the churches closed but was overruled by the state legislature. And in Idaho, there are groups that consider stay at home orders an infringment of their right to assemble & plan to defy the stay at home orders.
It seems that how Americans fare will depend a lot on their state of residence.
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Post by Cranky on Apr 11, 2020 14:36:19 GMT -5
jkr...im in the car...quick and dirty..
The foundation of the USA....is the independent states agreeing to a central goverment. Thus the foundation of USA, baked into their political system from their founding fathers is a "balance" of federal and state powers.
Do NOT be suprised at the gathering of feral cats when it comes to action. Each governor sees himself as the sole power to enact civil actions. So a moron in Georgia can do as he pleases. Ditto for California.
Of course, all the governors are free to blame the federal government for the consequences. That's why the Democratic governor of Louisiana can blame trump for letting the Mardi Gras go on, even though the very same governor claimed that Trump has no power to shut down the very same Mardi Gras.
It's bad because it was designed to make sure there was built in separation. And thus the consequences....
The only way Trump can make the cats behave is if Congress gave him the authority. That will NEVER happen by either party.
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Post by Cranky on Apr 11, 2020 15:44:36 GMT -5
Here is a fun fact.... In Canada, the old War Powers Act got replaced by the Emergency Act. The federal government can institte that under the supervision of parliament. In the US, only Congress can give the president war powers. Funny thing is the politician here who has the power wont do it, even though the provinces are almost all the way there with their emergency powers, the politician that is accused of being able to do it, can't. Funnier still is Americans who fear "Trump the Dictator" haven't got a clue of their own political power structure. laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/page-1.html |
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Post by jkr on Apr 11, 2020 16:08:03 GMT -5
Thanks Cranky. I know we talked about this before.
I just saw something on the CBC ticker - Alberta is sending PPEs to Ontario & Quebec and B.C. I doubt I will see that in the U.S. The states are pitted against each other with no unity of purpose.
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Post by Cranky on Apr 11, 2020 17:18:10 GMT -5
Thanks Cranky. I know we talked about this before. I just saw something on the CBC ticker - Alberta is sending PPEs to Ontario & Quebec and B.C. I doubt I will see that in the U.S. The states are pitted against each other with no unity of purpose. Here is a surprise! NOT!! I have Republican friends in the US i met through business. They are up there but not at the Federal level. In order not to look like a "dumb Canuck" in their eyes, which is their go-to ignorant stand, I made it my business to know their history and politics to talk to them in their own political culture. When I crack one of their cultural jokes, I'm "one of them". So when we are in a boat and I crack "other then your adult diapers, you look like you're crossing the Delaware". To a Canadian it means nothing, to them, Washington crossed the Delaware to launch a surprise and successful raid around 1776. A BIG deal to them historically particularly because they are political. Or calling someone a "Jacksonian" means something to them, nothing to us. On the flip side, a raised eyebrow from me will shut down any anti-Canadian rhetoric. KNOW THY ENEMY! lol |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 11, 2020 17:48:27 GMT -5
First....thing to remember, population. The US has 331 million vs spain with 46 and Italy with 60. Second....the State vs Federal powers define the U and S of USA. I am not surprised at the clusterquacking for different states going their own way. The only way there would be a coordinated response was for Trump to go nuclear and make it so political in the Republican states, that the governors had to follow him. That would piss off the governors, remember, theiy think they have as much power as the federal government. Some things look obvious to us, it's not as obvious in the USA. We have to go way back to 1772 and remember that it was independent states agreeing to a federal government...not a federal government breaking up ghe country into states. Yes, it's 2020, but that hasn't diminished the power of the states. Of course...Congress can give the president powers that could override the states, but good luck with that given the permanent animosity between the parties. Remember the Trump is a Dictator from democrats? It would of been hilarious if they had to give him those kinds of powers. The left would make sure it was the end of Democrats. Trump has failed in a system that was built to fail...literally. This explains to me why the American response seemed to be disjointed and disorganized ... Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 11, 2020 17:52:53 GMT -5
The article states that the first major briefing on the pandemic occurred in early January (sic) ... what they're questioning now is what was done with that intel after it was released and how seriously was it taken (by the government) ... so, where was the disconnect ... both the CDS and the Minster of Defence would have both been in on this ... would they have debriefed the PM or did they think that it wasn't necessary ... if it's the latter then both should be removed from their posts ... again, where's the disconnect ... if they did brief the PM then we're into another issue ... I re-read the article and I did missed the "early" part of January. Still, on December 31st, Taiwan had already implemented restrictions and protocols. Which if nothing else, was a big deal in itself. Taiwan informed the garbage WHO and anyone who cared to listen that it was human-to-human transmission. The garbage WHO was still spouting the ChiComm line on January 15 that there was NO human to human transmission. "Early" makes the intelligence warnings more palatable because by January 21st, it was "an-axe-in-the-head" obvious. ... the article states also that the US Intel community knew of this back in November 2019 and provided briefings for it (I addressed this below, as well) ... there was a virus in Asia that was putting American troops in danger and that the Intel was passed ... if they did have any concerns they should have been taking precautions at the point the Intel was first delivered but, again, where's the disconnect ... was Trump briefed or one of his staff briefed on this and, if so, why was it not taken seriously ... moreover, the article also states that the Americans did not share this Intel with their allies, namely Canada yet, they have the audacity to point their fingers at China for trying to cover it up ... so, who's telling the truth ... The CBC is quoting the ABC article. They have no corroborating evidence, but like I said, they are repeating an article that can't be verified, but now taken as "true". Right-wing or left-wing is irrelevant, news agencies often focus on the story and not necessarily the truth ... in addition to left-wing news agencies like ABC, we must add FOX News (reporting that people are overreacting to a virus that is just another strain of the flu) and The Rebel (if you don't agree with us you're stupid) to that list of questionable news sources ... hence, like your take on ABC, I don't find FOX News or The Rebel to be credible news outlets ... yet, there are differences between the US and Canadian right-wing lobbies, IMHO ... FOX News actually supported the Trump by trying to downplay the impact of coronavirus, while The Rebel is so right-wing that even Andrew Scheer distanced himself from them, knowing that they were a detriment to his campaign ... I won't get into the left-wing media at this point, but trust me when I say that I question their altruism, also ... I don't discriminate about my hatreds. I hate ALL media!  I have to spend so much time trying to figure out where every word is coming from that it's coming down to "trust nothing". "We're on dangerous ground right now, because of our secrets and our lies. They're practically what define us. When the truth offends, we lie and lie until we can no longer remember it is even there. But it is...still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid." - Professor Valery Legasov (Jared Harris) OUCH....and absolutely true. This is what the left accuses the right of, too ... in this context I find the neocon-right (the politics of permanent fear) and the progressive-left (the politics of permanent offence) to be similar to one another ... their ideologies may be different but the vehicles they use to promote those ideologies are the same ... more specifically, they're both more about finding out what's wrong with the other side than they are about promoting what good they, themselves, can do ... having said that, I have watched right-wing news outlets, sure, but I tend to tire of their rhetoric rather quickly ... conversely, I find the left-wing media to be about "sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows," and I can only stomach so much of that ... My issue is the organized nature of the left message. My buddy George Soros funded multiple media start-ups to spread the "progressive" message. His intent which we now see as true, it was to create a "media wall of influence" by repeating the opinion/message as broadly as possible. In the case of the ABC article, you can see it being spread across a lot of leftist media as "true" even though the article itself has no verification other the "secret sources". Inlcuding the CBC article using ABC as it's foundation. If the ABC article was stand alone, fine, but this is going on for at least a decade....and now on hyper drive. "Repeat the lie" has an ugly history, but it IS an effective tool. And it has a second cousin called "repeat the message", which Soros understands very well. Now back to my beloved Trudeau.... No matter what the intelligence services told him, he has cover from the garbage WHO who made it a point to criticize any early action to isolate this virus. He has said on every occasion when it came to action "from the advice of our experts and the WHO" which gives him cover. The fact that it's practically a legal line of defense, it wasn't an accident that he repeated it so many times. "From the advice from our experts and WHO"............has a cousin "On the advice from my lawyer, I decline to" In reality, Trudeau has taken the political cover route instead of "best course of action". He and his advisers knew that if they acted early and the pandemic wasn't as serious as it really was, then everyone could take pot shots at him for shutting down major industries with "no cause". A fatal political mistake. But, by ducking responsibility and joining the rest of the moron Western politicians around the world, he took the best path for "blame resistance". And here we are... Who failed my expectations was the moron the States. As a businessman, one takes whatever action one needs to minimize the damage, which even if wrong, is better then facing far greater damage. That metric is always driven by facts on the ground, not political theater. I can excuse the Clown Prince for being bred in political theater but Trump The Moron should of never let that sway him. Yet here we are.... |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 11, 2020 18:33:48 GMT -5
This explains to me why the American response seemed to be disjointed and disorganized ... Cheers. Here is another reason why Trump is going to be a pinata no matter what. Congressional power.... The Republican will never support Trump even if Trump went to Congress to get authority to get the States in line. The Republicans fear that if Trump gets those powers, nothing will stop a democratic president from using the same powers to dictate any green agenda as a "national emergency". In fact, the Democrats have been pushing that "emergency" line because they know it's legal power and will use it the first chance they get in power. Executive power..... An executive order will land up in the Supreme Court. One would think the Supreme Court is already in the rights pocket, but those right leaning judges also see that the only thing standing between unfettered Democratic power over the nation is the Constitution AND it's deliberate separation, more correctly mitigation of power. Giving Trump power to dictate to states a course of action in the "virus emergency" is automatically giving a democrat President power for a "climate emergency". That is why you have NOT seen an executive order from Trump. All Trump can do is plead and persuade, but what he can't do is to come with a legal ax. |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 12, 2020 14:05:02 GMT -5
all parties need to win the mushy middle. Not true. Dems won a recent election (can't recall if it was for the Senate or Governer) in California, against David Duke, by a huge margin, simply by getting their own vote out. There are more registered Democrats in the US than Republicans. Trump won the last time because a lot of Dems couldn't stand Hillary and just didn't bother to vote. It's actually incredibly simple. Just get your own supporters out and Trump is a nasty footnote of history. You don't 'need' the mushy middle. They''ll probably split anyway. |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 12, 2020 14:55:41 GMT -5
all parties need to win the mushy middle. Not true. Dems won a recent election (can't recall if it was for the Senate or Governer) in California, against David Duke, by a huge margin, simply by getting their own vote out. There are more registered Democrats in the US than Republicans. Trump won the last time because a lot of Dems couldn't stand Hillary and just didn't bother to vote. It's actually incredibly simple. Just get your own supporters out and Trump is a nasty footnote of history. You don't 'need' the mushy middle. They''ll probably split anyway. David Duke? My dog would of won against him so that's not much of a comparison. Check your stats. Registering as a Republican or Democrat does not amount to a hill of beans. People vote by how they identify. Don't be surprised when Sanders voters AGAIN vote for Evil Trump over the Biden The Senile. Republican leaners wont touch Biden, independents are probably going to vote for the devil they know. If they split, Trump wins. If he Democrats don't field someone better then Biden, they lose. AGAIN. |
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Post by franko on Apr 12, 2020 15:00:31 GMT -5
all parties need to win the mushy middle. Not true. Dems won a recent election (can't recall if it was for the Senate or Governer) in California, against David Duke, by a huge margin, simply by getting their own vote out. There are more registered Democrats in the US than Republicans. Trump won the last time because a lot of Dems couldn't stand Hillary and just didn't bother to vote. It's actually incredibly simple. Just get your own supporters out and Trump is a nasty footnote of history. You don't 'need' the mushy middle. They''ll probably split anyway. All depends where they live, 17. California? New York? Hawaii? Won't matter. It's the swing States that count. And my point that you need a viable alternative is supported by your thought that Hillary wasn't liked by members of her own party. Is Biden any better? Mind you, there's so much hatred of Trump that it might be enough to push them to vote. And maybe Republicans won't vote because of him. More likely now that the Democrats have an establishment candidate rather than Bernie the "SOCIALIST!!!"  |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 12, 2020 17:46:38 GMT -5
All depends where they live, 17. California? New York? Hawaii? Won't matter. It's the swing States that count. And my point that you need a viable alternative is supported by your thought that Hillary wasn't liked by members of her own party. Is Biden any better? Mind you, there's so much hatred of Trump that it might be enough to push them to vote. And maybe Republicans won't vote because of him. More likely now that the Democrats have an establishment candidate rather than Bernie the "SOCIALIST!!!" The next go-to by the Canadian left is..... *"but Electoral College is not fair"......don't look now but our parliamentary system is WAY worse. Ontario/Quebec have 110,000 per seat, PEI has 35,000 per seat. So every person in PEI has the same voting value as 3 from Ontario. *"but the Republicans are gerrymandering"......don't look now but our Parliamentary system is ways worse. Liberals would be 15 seats less from the Atlantic Provinces if it went by 120,000 votes per member like Alberta. *"but the Democrats won the popular vote"......don't look now but Sheer got more votes then Trudeau. I bet my house and my neighbors house, if the Democrats win the Electoral College, it's the "perfect system". |
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Post by franko on Apr 12, 2020 18:19:11 GMT -5
All depends where they live, 17. California? New York? Hawaii? Won't matter. It's the swing States that count. And my point that you need a viable alternative is supported by your thought that Hillary wasn't liked by members of her own party. Is Biden any better? Mind you, there's so much hatred of Trump that it might be enough to push them to vote. And maybe Republicans won't vote because of him. More likely now that the Democrats have an establishment candidate rather than Bernie the "SOCIALIST!!!" The next go-to by the Canadian left is..... *"but Electoral College is not fair"......don't look now but our parliamentary system is WAY worse. Ontario/Quebec have 110,000 per seat, PEI has 35,000 per seat. So every person in PEI has the same voting value as 3 from Ontario. *"but the Republicans are gerrymandering"......don't look now but our Parliamentary system is ways worse. Liberals would be 15 seats less from the Atlantic Provinces if it went by 120,000 votes per member like Alberta. *"but the Democrats won the popular vote"......don't look now but Sheer got more votes then Trudeau. I bet my house and my neighbors house, if the Democrats win the Electoral College, it's the "perfect system". The same blessings come from the other side in reverse situations. The way it goes. |
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Post by franko on Apr 14, 2020 8:25:54 GMT -5
by the way, seventeen, no matter how hard you try you'll never convince me that Trump is a good choice  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 14, 2020 14:01:51 GMT -5
Congressional power.... Executive power..... And now ... " Total authority" ... Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 14, 2020 17:28:47 GMT -5
Congressional power.... Executive power..... And now ... " Total authority" ... Cheers. No he can't ORDER them unless it's an executive order that he wont win. Did he forget that he nominated Constitutionalist Supreme Court judges? Or again, if Congress temporarily gives him that power. Trump DOES however have some authority over interstate commerce AND withholding federal help, without that federal help, States are scr***d so that's why governors are not going to go too far to spite him. So in the end, it's more about cooperation then anything else. Or more likely he's bluffing to keep governors from opening too early without having to battle them...OR it's a setup to go to Congress and not get it so that will absolve him of the second spike...and lay it straight on the governors heads. Being an MSM article they of course conveniently ignored that in their diatribe. Apparently a Hab fan in Canada knows more about his and state authority then Trump or MSM does. |
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