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Post by habsorbed on Nov 21, 2020 12:58:51 GMT -5
I don't have sympathy for either party and would love to see Molson take a bath and get out just like his family did in the 90s when things got too rich for them.
But ultimately I don't think the players are in a good position. The average playing career for NHL is 5 years. That's 5 years for most of these guys to make the most money by far that they will ever make. Doesn't seem wise to give up 20% of that when all that they are being asked is to defer the payments and they don't have to play/work the full 82 game schedule. Sure the stars like Carey, Shea, McD may not be too concerned as they have huge salaries and will be playing much longer than 5 years. But their union has many members, likely the majority, that will be playing for less than 5 years. They would be fools to lose a year. But many a foolish decision has been made on principle: "But we just signed a contract with you!"
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 21, 2020 13:00:12 GMT -5
I wouldn't like to be making the force major argument in court if every other professional league has been able to have a season?
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 21, 2020 13:42:59 GMT -5
I wouldn't like to be making the force major argument in court if every other professional league has been able to have a season? The argument would be that the government shut them down. At least that is what can be argued in Canada. Plus safety and deaths are argument nukes. Pretty hard for the union to argue any point when the NHL side can bring an empty body bag and simply leave it at their table. What will the union argue? Millions more for millionaires? Versus body bags?
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 21, 2020 15:23:34 GMT -5
I wouldn't like to be making the force major argument in court if every other professional league has been able to have a season? The argument would be that the government shut them down. At least that is what can be argued in Canada. Plus safety and deaths are argument nukes. Pretty hard for the union to argue any point when the NHL side can bring an empty body bag and simply leave it at their table. What will the union argue? Millions more for millionaires? Versus body bags? Has the govt shut them down?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 24, 2020 10:27:51 GMT -5
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 24, 2020 10:42:35 GMT -5
And Vegas Knights' players have tested positive. We're starting the worst period of this pandemic. And things are likely to get a lot worse after Thanksgiving and then Xmas. League might be smart to postpone season start until April or May when things calm down and we HOPEFULLY have a vaccine.
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Post by folatre on Nov 24, 2020 17:42:23 GMT -5
I agree, the spread of Covid is entering its worst phase. But I continue to think that, fundamentally, the season cannot be delayed indefinitely unless the decision is simply to cancel it. In my estimation, it is impossible to start a season in the spring because so few games will be played that television contracts would not be fulfilled; the total number of games played would be small (half or less), which makes the legitimacy of the season dubious; and summer hockey is just not good business from a ratings standpoint and NBC plans to focus on the Olympics beginning in the third week of July.
The NHL has extended loans to wobbly owners in the past (Arizona on many occasions, Melnyk apparently borrowed between $50-100 million USD in recent seasons), so Bettman should be able to figure out with the help of private financial institutions how to amp up a low interest rate loan mechanism if indeed there are a few owners who are so illiquid right now that they would not be able to meet payroll in January, February and March.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 25, 2020 13:29:38 GMT -5
I agree, the spread of Covid is entering its worst phase. But I continue to think that, fundamentally, the season cannot be delayed indefinitely unless the decision is simply to cancel it. In my estimation, it is impossible to start a season in the spring because so few games will be played that television contracts would not be fulfilled; the total number of games played would be small (half or less), which makes the legitimacy of the season dubious; and summer hockey is just not good business from a ratings standpoint and NBC plans to focus on the Olympics beginning in the third week of July. The NHL has extended loans to wobbly owners in the past (Arizona on many occasions, Melnyk apparently borrowed between $50-100 million USD in recent seasons), so Bettman should be able to figure out with the help of private financial institutions how to amp up a low interest rate loan mechanism if indeed there are a few owners who are so illiquid right now that they would not be able to meet payroll in January, February and March. HEADLINES Family of 8 dies of COVID Schools closed indefinitely Jobless rises 200% 40% of restaurants file for bankruptcy Rents unpaid Hospital’s full COVID-19 deaths spiking in third wave Governments debt tops 1 gazallion Churches closed No gatherings greater than 10 Essential NHL players focusing on 82 games in front of empty stadiums OLF adds inspectors What did I miss?
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Post by GNick99 on Nov 25, 2020 15:01:38 GMT -5
Jan 1. Start date can be tossed out then.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 25, 2020 15:52:51 GMT -5
Jonathan Marchessault believes that @nhlpa and @nhl will come to an agreement. "If you quit the NHL this year, everyone is going to lose even more money. We (the players) signed a contract this summer, it must be honored. If so, we will play the 1st January."
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Post by GNick99 on Nov 26, 2020 12:04:42 GMT -5
Jonathan Marchessault believes that @nhlpa and @nhl will come to an agreement. "If you quit the NHL this year, everyone is going to lose even more money. We (the players) signed a contract this summer, it must be honored. If so, we will play the 1st January." They best announce a schedule today or by Monday at latest then. Need a camp and preseason. Then non playoff teams are given an extra week.
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Post by GNick99 on Dec 1, 2020 18:48:32 GMT -5
In Friedman 31 months, he said they talking on a short training camp starting immediately after Christmas now. No preseason, season hope to start January 6th.
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Post by Tankdriver on Dec 2, 2020 11:18:15 GMT -5
In Friedman 31 months, he said they talking on a short training camp starting immediately after Christmas now. No preseason, season hope to start January 6th. I always say preseason as a money grab anyway. Since there is no fans, no money to be made. You can run scrimmages with your own team to find out what you got.
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Post by GNick99 on Dec 2, 2020 14:45:43 GMT -5
In Friedman 31 months, he said they talking on a short training camp starting immediately after Christmas now. No preseason, season hope to start January 6th. I always say preseason as a money grab anyway. Since there is no fans, no money to be made. You can run scrimmages with your own team to find out what you got. Canadiens made a lot of moves this off season. Then rookie like Romanov expect to play role in team. 3 practice games could be beneficial especially with fewer regular season games this year.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 2, 2020 21:00:21 GMT -5
... NHL Team Owners Aren't Fans Of A Shortened 2021 NHL Season | Tim & Sid ... *"... the players are mad, and the owners, a lot of them are getting hammered in the pocket book ..."(Elliotte Friedman)
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 3, 2020 9:15:31 GMT -5
The most important thing for the NHL is the playoffs. About two-thirds of the revenue from the Rogers and NBC TV deals is attributable to the playoffs. So while the local cable deals will be impacted by shorter season, the national TV money will pay under say a 48-game schedule and a full playoff.
So just play a 48-game season starting by mid January and ending by mid April. Then you can have a normal playoff that ends by mid June, which sets the league up for a full offseason and on time restart for 2021-22.
The biggest issue for the NHL (and the NBA) is to be in position to have a normal 2021-22 season. The TV ratings for both playoffs were awful, so taking the playoffs into deep summer again isn't going to go over well with anyone. So the league should figure out the minimum amount of games the league and the TV contracts can support and try and finish this season on time because that's the only guaranteed money coming in.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 3, 2020 10:05:32 GMT -5
Isn't interprovincial travel restricted?
Aren't gathering restricted to family or tiny groups?
Is the public medical system going to cover players and coaches because they want to get their big fat monies?
I can't wrap my head around hockey when you have hospitals about to get overwhelmed.
Then there is the possibility of a player or coach contracting covid and dying. I can't think of a bigger PR hit then that. NDL.....National Death League.
I love to see the Bell Center Bullies in action....but not if it means serious consequences. Nor ridiculously special treatment.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 3, 2020 10:07:09 GMT -5
HEADLINES Family of 8 dies of COVID Schools closed indefinitely Jobless rises 200% 40% of restaurants file for bankruptcy Rents unpaid Hospital’s full COVID-19 deaths spiking in third wave Governments debt tops 1 gazallion Churches closed No gatherings greater than 10 Essential NHL players focusing on 82 games in front of empty stadiums OLF adds inspectors What did I miss? $$$$$$$$$$$
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Post by folatre on Dec 3, 2020 11:25:10 GMT -5
The most important thing for the NHL is the playoffs. About two-thirds of the revenue from the Rogers and NBC TV deals is attributable to the playoffs. So while the local cable deals will be impacted by shorter season, the national TV money will pay under say a 48-game schedule and a full playoff. So just play a 48-game season starting by mid January and ending by mid April. Then you can have a normal playoff that ends by mid June, which sets the league up for a full offseason and on time restart for 2021-22. The biggest issue for the NHL (and the NBA) is to be in position to have a normal 2021-22 season. The TV ratings for both playoffs were awful, so taking the playoffs into deep summer again isn't going to go over well with anyone. So the league should figure out the minimum amount of games the league and the TV contracts can support and try and finish this season on time because that's the only guaranteed money coming in. Yeah, I agree that 2021-22 is the most important thing and it should be the strategic focus of everyone involved. Local television deals vary dramatically across the haves and have nots. Montreal hauls in approximately $60-65 million CDN annually, so only getting 60 percent of that figure in a short season has a big impact on hockey related revenue. Of course, there are a considerable number of US based clubs that receive $10 million or less per season from their local rights-holder.
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 3, 2020 11:39:54 GMT -5
Jan 1 ain't happening. Some 50 NBA players have contacted Covid now that training camp has opened. Not sure if these leagues are in denial about the surge or just so greedy they can't get their heads around the reality. I'd be very surprised if Canadian health authorities are going to permit such contact and traveling. It's one thing for NBA to have one team, the Raptors, move to US but all 7 Canadian teams in the NHL going to US? Not going to happen. It's Canada's game and the leagues going to move it to the US? NO WAY!
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Post by seventeen on Dec 3, 2020 13:59:34 GMT -5
The most important thing for the NHL is the playoffs. About two-thirds of the revenue from the Rogers and NBC TV deals is attributable to the playoffs. So while the local cable deals will be impacted by shorter season, the national TV money will pay under say a 48-game schedule and a full playoff. So just play a 48-game season starting by mid January and ending by mid April. Then you can have a normal playoff that ends by mid June, which sets the league up for a full offseason and on time restart for 2021-22. The biggest issue for the NHL (and the NBA) is to be in position to have a normal 2021-22 season. The TV ratings for both playoffs were awful, so taking the playoffs into deep summer again isn't going to go over well with anyone. So the league should figure out the minimum amount of games the league and the TV contracts can support and try and finish this season on time because that's the only guaranteed money coming in. Yeah, I agree that 2021-22 is the most important thing and it should be the strategic focus of everyone involved. Local television deals vary dramatically across the haves and have nots. Montreal hauls in approximately $60-65 million CDN annually, so only getting 60 percent of that figure in a short season has a big impact on hockey related revenue. Of course, there are a considerable number of US based clubs that receive $10 million or less per season from their local rights-holder. I suspect some owners may not last till 2021/22 season. I can only hope. Maybe the Molson group is in that number. Sure they've made a lot of real estate money, but where is it? High rolling businessmen (Gillett for example and private equity firm types) find that money burns a hole in their pockets. They might buy 'stuff' like Ferraris etc. but they often put those funds into their next idea.....which may or may not pan out. Which means they don't have a hefty savings account acting as an emergency fund. Which means stoppages like this one put them at huge risk.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 3, 2020 16:56:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree that 2021-22 is the most important thing and it should be the strategic focus of everyone involved. Local television deals vary dramatically across the haves and have nots. Montreal hauls in approximately $60-65 million CDN annually, so only getting 60 percent of that figure in a short season has a big impact on hockey related revenue. Of course, there are a considerable number of US based clubs that receive $10 million or less per season from their local rights-holder. I suspect some owners may not last till 2021/22 season. I can only hope. Maybe the Molson group is in that number. Sure they've made a lot of real estate money, but where is it? High rolling businessmen (Gillett for example and private equity firm types) find that money burns a hole in their pockets. They might buy 'stuff' like Ferraris etc. but they often put those funds into their next idea.....which may or may not pan out. Which means they don't have a hefty savings account acting as an emergency fund. Which means stoppages like this one put them at huge risk. This is dangerously true of even very well run, multi billion multinationals. I was on the BOD, not because I owned a large chunk, but because I was friends with the CEO....and he made sure I bought the stock at the "right time". Anywho.....i was surprised to find out that there was no such thing as a "rainy day" fund. That fund was simply to go to the bank and borrow some more. "It's all about the line of credit Son". All the monies went out as dividens and the only monies were for daily operations. Obviously he knew what he was doing, because he grew it into multi billion vs a minnow sized conservative dummy like me who never borrowed and made sure I couldn't be bankrupted. On the other hand, other then him and the other multinationals who ran off to China, most of the other "borrow till you drop" medium and small customers and competitors....are bankrupt memories. Which brings me to.....I bet that most if not all NHL team have NO major funds to get through this. Or line of credit. Their lines of credit are likely at the limit. So unless those billionaires put up other debtable assets to secure more borrowing....notice the word "debtable" assets....we may be at the brink of an NHL meltdown. Even the Habs who are valued at over a billion, there is a huge issue because Mr "i went to the finest business school" Mol$on has debted the Habs on their value to finance other ventures. I distinctly remember reading about the "value" of the Habs and the debt on the franchise. I think it was more then the original purchase price of $600 million. Soo....unless the owners group ponies up debtable assets, I seriously doubt the Habs have a extra $100 million rainy day fund. On the other hand, if Mol$on has a $600+++ million debt, they are too big to fail because of the value of the Habs. Tronto, Nah York and us may be fine but Hens and most others are simply not worth enough to borrow another $100 million. Thus we get this urgency to play...which is nothing more then billionaires putting lives on the line to save their sports toys. And to save the NHL from becoming a 12 team league. Which brings me to....anybody have some lose change behind their couches? We need to buy the Hens, trade their best assets to the Habs....and fold them like cheap playing cards. Then write off the loss....(yes, I'm learning the evil ways of scammers wise business people.)
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 3, 2020 17:52:54 GMT -5
Which brings me to....anybody have some lose change behind their couches? We need to buy the Hens, trade their best assets to the Habs....and fold them like cheap playing cards. Then write off the loss....(yes, I'm learning the evil ways of scammers wise business people.) Or even better move the Hens to be the 2nd team in Torranna... that would RIP the heart out of Hens fans
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Post by Boston_Habs on Dec 4, 2020 10:08:29 GMT -5
I think the league will be fine. The NHL has liquidity it can tap at the league level to help individual teams, if necessary. That's in addition to rich owners that have the resources to cover cash losses for a year. Plus the players are going to have to "give back" a lot of money over the next few years so in many ways owners are providing a bridge loan that will be partially repaid by recouping revenues from the players down the road. Revenues could be down by over 50% this year with no gate but the players aren't taking a 50% pay cut. They will have to pay back the money eventually.
The NHL is also negotiating a new US TV deal that will kick in for the 2021-22 season. The current deal that expires with NBC is a 10-year, $2 billion deal or $200 million per year. I would guess that even with all the turmoil of 2020 that the new US deal will be at least 2x the current one.
That's why it makes the most sense to do an abbreviated schedule so they can start the playoffs in April, finish the Cup in June to maximize the ratings, and start fresh in the fall for 2021-22... WHEN WE ARE ALL VACCINATED!!!
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Post by folatre on Dec 10, 2020 20:34:17 GMT -5
Friedmann reporting today the NHL is looking into limited corporate advertising on player helmets.
I could live with a small Toyota sticker on one the side of the helmet and a RBC sticker on the other. Obviously the helmet manufacturer would not too much noise near the front of the bucket because they pay good coin to some players (the upper echelon type guys) for equipment based use rights.
I like capitalism a lot but I like hockey tradition even more, so if they start putting stuff on the jersey or pants I would probably puke and never buy another jersey for my kids ever again.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 10, 2020 22:01:05 GMT -5
Those European jerseys are freaking awful. Their sales have to be non existent. Who'd want a walking billboard as a jersey? I often can't make out the name of the player, there is so much noise on them.
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Post by PTH on Dec 10, 2020 22:07:11 GMT -5
Those European jerseys are freaking awful. Their sales have to be non existent. Who'd want a walking billboard as a jersey? I often can't make out the name of the player, there is so much noise on them. You say that, yet some soccer jerseys which have little more than a pure sponsorship on them and are otherwise very average, sell very well. Which seems crazy to me. I wouldn't pay 100$+ to wear a jersey that says "Fly Emirates", but plenty of people will.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 11, 2020 1:20:11 GMT -5
Some European jerseys kind of resemble cereal boxes ... here's Max Friberg of Frölunda HC ... not sure I like the idea but here's a link to the jersey less the advertising ... see another Max Friberg jersey that sells for $159.99 Swedish Króna ...
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Post by folatre on Dec 11, 2020 16:12:11 GMT -5
Wow, that's a tough look...
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Post by Willie Dog on Dec 11, 2020 16:58:09 GMT -5
Some European jerseys kind of resemble cereal boxes ... here's Max Friberg of Frölunda HC ... not sure I like the idea but here's a link to the jersey less the advertising ... see another Max Friberg jersey that sells for $159.99 Swedish Króna ... What the hell is on his socks... is that more advertising...
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