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Post by Cranky on Aug 1, 2020 15:06:31 GMT -5
I want your reaction...I'll comment last.
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Post by jkr on Aug 1, 2020 17:32:15 GMT -5
If they just fired it to wake him up, then that's not right. Shouldn't be using military equipment to get a laugh.
If they were firing it for a legit reason such as participating in an exercise, I don't have much of a problem with it.
Didn't put s vote in yet.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 2, 2020 17:49:36 GMT -5
Just a few things ... my first intro to the artillery was in 1971, the 30th Field Artillery at Dow's Lake Ottawa ... it's usually this unit that fires the ceremonial salute for the Queen when she visits Ottawa (no, I never did that for Her) ... from experience, they wouldn't be authorized to fire a gun off solely with the intent of waking up a snoozing soldier ... there would have to be another reason like, they'd just received their fire mission (which contains the info you'll need to aim and shoot) and authorization to fire (from Base Range Control) ... they could have wakened him up to let him know a round was going down range, but they chose to let him sleep ... one reason for this is probably because they like him, and they wanted to play a practical joke on him ... as far as discipline goes, there should be no disciplinary action taken because there's no difference in what he did and what other soldiers do when they're waiting for their relay to be called up to the range/guns/what have you; they go prone, put their helmets under their heads and doze off ... mind you, I hope the kid was wearing his ear plugs ... I've been on a rifle range before with no ear protection and my ears were ringing for two days after ... I can only imagine what an artillery blast would do ...
Cheers.
Edit: just voted ... I found it funny because the kid was smiling afterwards ... soldiers do that to each other and I've been on both ends of practical jokes through my career ...
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 2, 2020 18:18:10 GMT -5
Just a few things ... my first intro to the artillery was in 1971, the 30th Field Artillery at Dow's Lake Ottawa ... it's usually this unit that fires the ceremonial salute for the Queen when she visits Ottawa (no, I never did that for Her) ... from experience, they wouldn't be authorized to fire a gun off solely with the intent of waking up a snoozing soldier ... there would have to be another reason like, they'd just received their fire mission (which contains the info you'll need to aim and shoot) and authorization to fire (from Base Range Control) ... they could have wakened him up to let him know a round was going down range, but they chose to let him sleep ... one reason for this is probably because they like him, and they wanted to play a practical joke on him ... as far as discipline goes, there should be no disciplinary action taken because there's no difference in what he did and what other soldiers do when they're waiting for their relay to be called up to the range/guns/what have you; they go prone, put their helmets under their heads and doze off ... mind you, I hope the kid was wearing his ear plugs ... I've been on a rifle range before with no ear protection and my ears were ringing for two days after ... I can only imagine what an artillery blast would do ... Cheers. Edit: just voted ... I found it funny because the kid was smiling afterwards ... soldiers do that to each other and I've been on both ends of practical jokes through my career ... I defer to the subject matter expert Dis... it was funny and the guy looks like he's well liked by his colleagues... |
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 7, 2020 9:44:59 GMT -5
Believe it not, this happens many times. Just nowadays everyone has a phone on them. Dis summed it up pretty much they way it goes down. You can't fire a round off without a specific reason.
And yes soldiers will always try to grab a couple minutes of downtime when they can. You never know when you are on for a 24 hour shift or getting 2 hours a night.
Side note, when explosives are not used, most of the time, permanent markers are used to draw things on the faces of those that sleep though.
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Post by Cranky on Aug 9, 2020 0:30:47 GMT -5
I have a different perspective in that I'm from an industrial environment. Horse play and practical jokes can have dire consequences.
Loosening the paint hose coupling "painted" the guy...and a few thousand dollars of product. The prankster got in instant opportunity to improve his career...elsewhere.
I get the "young guys" are having fun, but what about the guy who was asleep? Was he wearing hearing protection? Was his gun loaded and possibly an accidentental shooting? Was his safety on?
I'm not OK with horseplay when there is a potential for harm.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 9, 2020 18:26:03 GMT -5
I have a different perspective in that I'm from an industrial environment. Horse play and practical jokes can have dire consequences. Loosening the paint hose coupling "painted" the guy...and a few thousand dollars of product. The prankster got in instant opportunity to improve his career...elsewhere. I get the "young guys" are having fun, but what about the guy who was asleep? Was he wearing hearing protection? Was his gun loaded and possibly an accidentental shooting? Was his safety on? Some concerns you have would have been covered in the pre-deployment orders, mon ami ... he'd probably have his ear protection in because I can't see participating in a live-fire exercise without them ... everyone there would not only know to wear them, but would also be reminded to wear them by the staff upon arrival at the range ... having said that, the kid who was sleeping probably did have his ear plugs in ... I went frame by frame to see if he was wearing any ear protection and I stopped at ~ the 35-second mark and it looks like he has something in his right ear (black) ... as far as his personal weapon is concerned, you're asking about basic soldiering skills, which everyone learns during basic training ... this includes basic weapons handling and you literally become conditioned to this the more it's covered, and it's covered several times a year at the units, as well ... this is why I'd trust the kid to have his ear defenders in and to have his rifle on 'safe' ... Which is probably one of the reasons you're a successful businessman ... corporate liability comes into play, in your case, no? ... likewise with DND ... in this case, if the kid didn't have any ear protection then he'd possibly be looking at some ear damage, either now or down the road ... if there's permanent damage he'd be looking at a medical pension ... and if they could prove there was negligence on the part of the leadership then there'd be an investigation ... in this case, I don't know what transpired after the prank, but it seemed to go over well enough ... unit morale looked like it was pretty good ... Cheers. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 9, 2020 19:59:25 GMT -5
Which is probably one of the reasons you're a successful businessman ... corporate liability comes into play, in your case, no? ... likewise with DND ... in this case, if the kid didn't have any ear protection then he'd possibly be looking at some ear damage, either now or down the road ... if there's permanent damage he'd be looking at a medical pension ... and if they could prove there was negligence on the part of the leadership then there'd be an investigation ... in this case, I don't know what transpired after the prank, but it seemed to go over well enough ... unit morale looked like it was pretty good ... Cheers. If someone gets hurt from a prank, or they claim they were hurt, WSIB goes up for ALL the payroll for at least three years. Plus if there is an investigation and the company is found negligent, or has not enforced discipline, then a nice round number like....$10,000 fine. Or $100,000. Depending on how much they think they can inflict without shutting down the company. I had a guy who had a serious drinking problem, got hurt and they were not too sympathetic for my "social work". No fine, but a nasty increase in WSIB rates for the entire plant. I am NOT against a good prank. I did it once to my supervisor. He always parked in the exact same space. So I got hold of his keys and moved his car 4 parking spots over. He literally walked on top of the parking area and looked bewildered, took him several second to actually look up for his car, a few spots over. Funny as hell, we had a good laugh too.....and there was no chance of any unintended consequences. Problem is that.....have they thought thru all the unintended consequences? Anywho.....it looked like no harm came of it.....but if I was in charge of the unit, that wouldn't happen. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 9, 2020 20:34:37 GMT -5
Which is probably one of the reasons you're a successful businessman ... corporate liability comes into play, in your case, no? ... likewise with DND ... in this case, if the kid didn't have any ear protection then he'd possibly be looking at some ear damage, either now or down the road ... if there's permanent damage he'd be looking at a medical pension ... and if they could prove there was negligence on the part of the leadership then there'd be an investigation ... in this case, I don't know what transpired after the prank, but it seemed to go over well enough ... unit morale looked like it was pretty good ... Cheers. If someone gets hurt from a prank, or they claim they were hurt, WSIB goes up for ALL the payroll for at least three years. Plus if there is an investigation and the company is found negligent, or has not enforced discipline, then a nice round number like....$10,000 fine. Or $100,000. Depending on how much they think they can inflict without shutting down the company. I had a guy who had a serious drinking problem, got hurt and they were not too sympathetic for my "social work". No fine, but a nasty increase in WSIB rates for the entire plant. I am NOT against a good prank. I did it once to my supervisor. He always parked in the exact same space. So I got hold of his keys and moved his car 4 parking spots over. He literally walked on top of the parking area and looked bewildered, took him several second to actually look up for his car, a few spots over. Funny as hell, we had a good laugh too.....and there was no chance of any unintended consequences. Problem is that.....have they thought thru all the unintended consequences? Anywho.....it looked like no harm came of it.....but if I was in charge of the unit, that wouldn't happen. Well said, mate ... the fact you were willing to help out an employee with a personal problem also resonates through the rank and file ... nothing earns the respect of the troops faster than showing them you give a hoot about their well-being ... Leadership 101 ... as far as not allowing the prank, I suspect they wouldn't have done it had the CO or BSM been there ... it'd be back to reality at that point ... Cheers. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 11, 2020 23:29:16 GMT -5
Just a side note, most likely the soldier had no ammo. It was a arty training exercise so chances the rifle was more for show than anything. And yes, when we are on the range everyone has ear plugs. I can ask around for the whole story as I know the rsm of the art units in qc.
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 15, 2020 16:12:13 GMT -5
Just a side note, most likely the soldier had no ammo. It was a arty training exercise so chances the rifle was more for show than anything. And yes, when we are on the range everyone has ear plugs. I can ask around for the whole story as I know the rsm of the art units in qc. You're in the military... explains the name 😁 |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 18, 2020 20:25:09 GMT -5
Just a side note, most likely the soldier had no ammo. It was a arty training exercise so chances the rifle was more for show than anything. And yes, when we are on the range everyone has ear plugs. I can ask around for the whole story as I know the rsm of the art units in qc. Exactly ... it's not uncommon for soldiers to be in 'fighting order' (with weapon) when participating in any type of live-fire range ... live ammunition would not be issued for sidearms because they wouldn't be firing them ... all of this would have been in the orders, anyway ... Cheers. |
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