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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 22, 2022 9:53:48 GMT -5
. I have stated my preference, but I will support whomever HuGo pick as in the end I want that prospect to have a long and successful career with the Habs. That would be a nice change for a Habs first round pick lol. Amen brother... So sick of seeing 1st rounders get jerked around, at least we know with this management team, a prospect will be given an opportunity, not have to try to earn it playing with scrubs. A decade with the Dinosaur club (MTHead, Clod and Clod jr.) would make any Habs fan jaded... I haven't felt this optimistic about the long term competitiveness of this team in a very long time |
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Post by folatre on Jun 22, 2022 10:12:25 GMT -5
Anderson will only be 32 years old when his contract is up, so that is really not a big issue. Having forwards signed long-term into their mid-30s is, on the other hand, generally folly.
I believe there is a more robust market for Anderson than Petry. However, I do not believe Anderson could return a crown jewel such as a top ten pick or an organization's top prospect.
Going back to the Petry to Columbus idea for a second, I could see it being one roster player and a pick. If the player were to be Texier, I would say his value is slightly more than a second rounder because he is an established NHLer who is still young. So if the pick Hughes insists on were Columbus' second rounder, then I think Montreal may have a add just a little -- maybe something like Texier and the Blue Jackets' second round pick for Petry and the Habs' fourth rounder.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 22, 2022 12:28:36 GMT -5
. I have stated my preference, but I will support whomever HuGo pick as in the end I want that prospect to have a long and successful career with the Habs. That would be a nice change for a Habs first round pick lol. Amen brother... So sick of seeing 1st rounders get jerked around, at least we know with this management team, a prospect will be given an opportunity, not have to try to earn it playing with scrubs. A decade with the Dinosaur club (MTHead, Clod and Clod jr.) would make any Habs fan jaded... I haven't felt this optimistic about the long term competitiveness of this team in a very long time Second that. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 22, 2022 13:40:55 GMT -5
BC, you could be on to something. I would say Columbus is certainly among the three likeliest destinations for Petry. I imagine the Blue Jackets would try to make it work without giving up either of their picks in the top half of the first round. And while I think there is a market for Petry with no retention, I do not see enough seriously viable landing spots to spark a major bidding war. Hockey is debatable, but for me I think the equivalent of a couple of second rounders is probably about it. Yup, my thinking is a 2nd rounder along with a serviceable player (not a dump, just a player the other team can do without.... a Zucker, Foegele type). An upgrade to #12 from another pick makes sense, though it doesn't fit Hughes' take that trading Petry had to improve the team. I just don't see retention on longer-term contracts as being viable, and there are very few actually out there. And the only case I can think of involving the Habs was Pacioretty and Tatar, who both had retention in that weird part of the deal. I recall being convinced that no one was going to pay more than a second round pick for Ben Chiarot. I mean, how stupid can a GM be? I think this may apply to both Petry and Anderson. Did anyone think we'd get anything for Weber's contract? I thought we'd have to add something. Hughes' (or Gorton's?) patience is really something. There's a risk with that too. You might wait too long in some cases, but with both Anderson and Petry, their contracts go on for a while and they're still serviceable players so there really is no pressure on HuGo. Patience may reward us. Pressure from owners to win now will also help. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 22, 2022 14:01:11 GMT -5
. I have stated my preference, but I will support whomever HuGo pick as in the end I want that prospect to have a long and successful career with the Habs. That would be a nice change for a Habs first round pick lol. Amen brother... So sick of seeing 1st rounders get jerked around, at least we know with this management team, a prospect will be given an opportunity, not have to try to earn it playing with scrubs. A decade with the Dinosaur club (MTHead, Clod and Clod jr.) would make any Habs fan jaded... I haven't felt this optimistic about the long term competitiveness of this team in a very long time Right on. Another thing to remember is that sometimes it's bad luck to have the first overall pick. By that I mean, using 1980 as an example, that the first pick is absolutely everyone's consensus #1 pick. Everyone and their dog, cat, bird and snake would have picked Doug Wickenheiser. His stats were 89-81-170 in 71 games. And he kept that up in the playoffs to 14-26-40 in 18 games. Ron Flockhart was the second leading scorer on that team, 40 points behind (Barry Trotz was on that club fyi). Easily the first pick in the draft. And yet players picked after him who arguably had better careers (and some not even arguably) were Denis Savard, Dave Babych, Larry Murphy, Paul Coffey, Mike Bullard, and Brent Sutter. Hell, even John Chabot, the Habs pick at #40 had better career numbers. The Habs just had the bad luck to have pick #1. |
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Post by Scotty D on Jun 22, 2022 14:41:35 GMT -5
Amen brother... So sick of seeing 1st rounders get jerked around, at least we know with this management team, a prospect will be given an opportunity, not have to try to earn it playing with scrubs. A decade with the Dinosaur club (MTHead, Clod and Clod jr.) would make any Habs fan jaded... I haven't felt this optimistic about the long term competitiveness of this team in a very long time Right on. Another thing to remember is that sometimes it's bad luck to have the first overall pick. By that I mean, using 1980 as an example, that the first pick is absolutely everyone's consensus #1 pick. Everyone and their dog, cat, bird and snake would have picked Doug Wickenheiser. His stats were 89-81-170 in 71 games. And he kept that up in the playoffs to 14-26-40 in 18 games. Ron Flockhart was the second leading scorer on that team, 40 points behind (Barry Trotz was on that club fyi). Easily the first pick in the draft. And yet players picked after him who arguably had better careers (and some not even arguably) were Denis Savard, Dave Babych, Larry Murphy, Paul Coffey, Mike Bullard, and Brent Sutter. Hell, even John Chabot, the Habs pick at #40 had better career numbers. The Habs just had the bad luck to have pick #1. lets hope we have the luck of 1971 with nemero dix, not that i expect this pick to turn into lafleur but a 60 to 80 percentile of him would make me more than happy for sure. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 22, 2022 15:19:38 GMT -5
(and I don't see Anderson being worth more than a 2nd anyways), Really ? Given that there are rumors a lot of teams are calling about him, my assumption would be that he'd have nice value. And he's signed, in his prime, with injury issues apparently mostly resolved, so we "bought low" and could now sell relatively high. I have to think he's worth a nice return - at least a high end prospect or 1st rounder. Otherwise, might as well keep him since we can't ice a full lineup of 21 year olds... Just for fun I checked out cap friendly. Our average age of forwards is 28 and defence is 26. Goalies is 30. We are not a young team at all. Still lots of work to continue the tear down. Contracts that worry me are Gallagher at 6.5 and Armia at 4.45, Savard at 3.5. Those contracts still have 3 years + left on them. Everyone else is pretty much done in 1 or 2 years that are considered dispensable. Note: Price I bet with be on LTIR and Petry traded. Only guys with term at the moment, that won't be traded is Suzuki and possible Anderson |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 22, 2022 18:24:39 GMT -5
Today is the day for the Habs private combine in Brossard. They are always very tight lipped about who they invite, but some names do sneak out. Question from the wishful thinking department? If we make a trade this year and obtain a first round pick from what turns out to be a 2023 non playoff team and they win the lottery; does that count against us as if our pick was number 1 overall in a five year span? |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 23, 2022 10:42:07 GMT -5
Today is the day for the Habs private combine in Brossard. They are always very tight lipped about who they invite, but some names do sneak out. Question from the wishful thinking department? If we make a trade this year and obtain a first round pick from what turns out to be a 2023 non playoff team and they win the lottery; does that count against us as if our pick was number 1 overall in a five year span? The pick would technically be Habs property as a result of the trade, and at the time of the draft, so it would count as one of the two lottery wins (where you move up in the draft) that a team is allowed over five years. The actual wording of the rule is really interesting in that it specifies a team moving up in the draft as a result of the lottery win. Montreal started at spot #1 this draft and did not move up as a result of winning the lottery. The 2022 win should be a “freebie” if they win again. They are allowed two in five years anyway. Watch the league try and back peddle on that one if the Habs do win again. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 23, 2022 17:04:38 GMT -5
Question from the wishful thinking department? If we make a trade this year and obtain a first round pick from what turns out to be a 2023 non playoff team and they win the lottery; does that count against us as if our pick was number 1 overall in a five year span? The pick would technically be Habs property as a result of the trade, and at the time of the draft, so it would count as one of the two lottery wins (where you move up in the draft) that a team is allowed over five years. The actual wording of the rule is really interesting in that it specifies a team moving up in the draft as a result of the lottery win. Montreal started at spot #1 this draft and did not move up as a result of winning the lottery. The 2022 win should be a “freebie” if they win again. They are allowed two in five years anyway. Watch the league try and back peddle on that one if the Habs do win again. Good catch!. If the Hab's get both Wright and Bedard they would only be prevented from picking #1 for three years (maybe) but could still get three #2's in the next three years. It's almost an anti Canadian team rule against Toronto and Edmonton. Rewarding failure and stupidity never makes sense. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 28, 2022 11:17:33 GMT -5
A quick update: Slafkovsky is now Bobby Mac's number 1 pick, with Wright #2. He goes on that it is a photo finish and that 5 Scouts have Slafkovsky 1 4 have Wright and 1 has Cooley going first but mentions that it can be just the opposite if you ask 10 different scouts. Hughes definetly has a tough choice to make. He should just trade for NJ's pick and take both then  |
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Post by Andrew on Jun 28, 2022 11:22:01 GMT -5
A quick update: Slafkovsky is now Bobby Mac's number 1 pick, with Wright #2. He goes on that it is a photo finish and that 5 Scouts have Slafkovsky 1 4 have Wright and 1 has Cooley going first but mentions that it can be just the opposite if you ask 10 different scouts. Hughes definetly has a tough choice to make. He should just trade for NJ's pick and take both then I can't see the Habs passing on Wright if it's this close, as center will always be the priority with all else seemingly being equal. |
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Draft 2022
Jun 28, 2022 12:16:54 GMT -5
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Post by drkcloud on Jun 28, 2022 12:16:54 GMT -5
A quick update: Slafkovsky is now Bobby Mac's number 1 pick, with Wright #2. He goes on that it is a photo finish and that 5 Scouts have Slafkovsky 1 4 have Wright and 1 has Cooley going first but mentions that it can be just the opposite if you ask 10 different scouts. Hughes definetly has a tough choice to make. He should just trade for NJ's pick and take both then Nice of Bob to keep the waters muddy. I think we can be sure that no matter what the pick, there will be plenty of controversy and judgment moving forward. I am a little concerned about the remarks in the article that there are no great prospects in the draft like past years and that there are concerns about Wright's compete level. We really need a solid player here. At least I can take solace in the fact that it's not Berg and Timmins making the pick. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 28, 2022 13:00:37 GMT -5
Slafkovsky does indeed appear to have a Jagr-esque type ceiling, but for me he also looks to be a riskier proposition. Who knows, maybe Hughes sees a superstar in the lanky Slovak or maybe Gorton is scared of another Kakko.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 28, 2022 15:27:35 GMT -5
What scares me is his 5 goals in 31 games in the finish league. I know it isn't a scoring league but I want more goals than that. My pick is still Wright because we need a solid second center and he is a better skater than slaf.
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Post by HABsurd on Jun 28, 2022 17:04:52 GMT -5
From my reading, the upside comparable for Slafkovsky is between Rick Nash and Puljujärvi, whereas the upside for Wright is between a Patrice Bergeron and Ryan O'Reilly.
Personally, even if I would rather have O'Reilly than Nash, so not really a contest.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 28, 2022 17:51:00 GMT -5
I pointed out some numbers earlier that really don't equate Slavkovsky to Jagr. The similarity is size, of course. Jagr's 17 year old season, he had 50 points in 51 games in the top Czech league, which at that time was Czechoslovakia. Peter Bondra (21) had 46 points in 49 games. Robert Reichel, who was a year older than Jagr, was the top scorer, I believe, with 71 points in 52 games. Enough stats, but the point is that in a tougher league, Jagr had a lot more points than Slafkovsky. I believe the comparison, while not ending there, should be muted.
I see so much of Bergeron in Wright. That same economy of motion, of always being in the right spot and right angle, the use of teammates, the pucks that are on his stick for milliseconds before being passed to someone he has already pegged. The team he played for last year, the way his coach used him rather than letting him loose, all conspired to keep his point totals lower than expected. While there may still be questions, I think he adapts to the NHL faster and better than Slafkovsky or Cooley. And I think his upside may even be higher. That lost year may only have stalled his development, not stopped it. Anyway, that's my opinion.
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Draft 2022
Jun 28, 2022 18:01:50 GMT -5
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Post by Skilly on Jun 28, 2022 18:01:50 GMT -5
A quick update: Slafkovsky is now Bobby Mac's number 1 pick, with Wright #2. He goes on that it is a photo finish and that 5 Scouts have Slafkovsky 1 4 have Wright and 1 has Cooley going first but mentions that it can be just the opposite if you ask 10 different scouts. Hughes definetly has a tough choice to make. He should just trade for NJ's pick and take both then If I’m Hughes, I give Trevor Timmins a call and ask him who he likes … then select the other guy! |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 28, 2022 18:57:43 GMT -5
What scares me is his 5 goals in 31 games in the finish league. I know it isn't a scoring league but I want more goals than that. My pick is still Wright because we need a solid second center and he is a better skater than slaf. No contest. Wright is right. 5 goals in 31 games against weak opposition. The NHL is an 82 game grind, not a 10 game showcase playing for your country. 2 years of looking for a weakness in Wright. lots of question marks with Slav. |
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Post by folatre on Jun 29, 2022 9:52:47 GMT -5
Kyle Woodley (Red Line Report) was on the NHL Network yesterday talking about the draft. He said Wright is the best player in this draft and it takes a couple of years from a developmental perspective to make up for losing his age 16/17 season due to the pandemic.
Woodley also said that Lekkerimaki and Kulich could certainly break into the top ten, with the Swede potentially going in the top five.
Regarding Miroshnichenko, his opinion is that with the clean bill of health the talented Russian winger will not drop lower than Buffalo's second pick of the first round.
In reality, things are hard to predict even for guys who scout and analyze amateur players for a living. But I was a little disappointed to hear another informed opinion stating that Kulich and Miroshnichenko will likely be gone well before Montreal picks at #26. I really want to see the Habs get two offensive difference-makers in the first round.
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Draft 2022
Jun 29, 2022 10:18:50 GMT -5
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 29, 2022 10:18:50 GMT -5
The Wright vs Slafkovsky (or Cooley) debate won’t end in a week. The reality is this is a close race with two (or three) guys that bring different things to the table, but also have different risks associated with achieving both their floor and ceiling. This is where the hours and hours of preparation work and analysis from the Habs and other teams will come into play. For the record, I still like Wright for the Habs pick. I will support another choice, but I think the package and attributes he brings just edge out his competition right now. And I was on the Slafkovsky bandwagon since last summer when he impressed me at the Hlinka-Gretzky as did the whole Slovakian U18 team. folatre regarding Miroshnichenko, I do think the biggest risk to him not being there for the Habs at 26 is another team with more than one first round pick. As for Buffalo at 16, I think there will be less “riskier” options available for them that likely tempt them more. Anaheim at 22 seems a bit unlikely to me as they don’t seem to be a team that historically has dipped into the Russian pool in the first round (you have to go back to 2000 and 2001, under older regimes), and this is an even more risky year to do so than usual. Maybe I am just being Uber optimistic that he might still be available at 26 just to see if the Habs would bite. The other teams with multiple firsts are Arizona and Winnipeg, but they pick after 26. Arizona has four picks in the top 34, so they can definitely swing for the fences with those last three picks of theirs at the end of first/beginning of second. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 29, 2022 13:50:56 GMT -5
Because I'm not very smart and not a fan of tiny players....
I would offer the Devils Caufield for 2nd and Zacha.
1...We now have a ton of young centers that are going to fight for 1C and 2C like a pack of wolves AND Jagr Jr.
2...Or cry because Caufield scores 40 consistently.
I bet it's 1 and I will give myself a Mohican on youtube if I'm wrong.
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Post by Skilly on Jun 29, 2022 14:10:45 GMT -5
The Wright vs Slafkovsky (or Cooley) debate won’t end in a week. The reality is this is a close race with two (or three) guys that bring different things to the table, but also have different risks associated with achieving both their floor and ceiling. This is where the hours and hours of preparation work and analysis from the Habs and other teams will come into play. For the record, I still like Wright for the Habs pick. I will support another choice, but I think the package and attributes he brings just edge out his competition right now. And I was on the Slafkovsky bandwagon since last summer when he impressed me at the Hlinka-Gretzky as did the whole Slovakian U18 team. folatre regarding Miroshnichenko, I do think the biggest risk to him not being there for the Habs at 26 is another team with more than one first round pick. As for Buffalo at 16, I think there will be less “riskier” options available for them that likely tempt them more. Anaheim at 22 seems a bit unlikely to me as they don’t seem to be a team that historically has dipped into the Russian pool in the first round (you have to go back to 2000 and 2001, under older regimes), and this is an even more risky year to do so than usual. Maybe I am just being Uber optimistic that he might still be available at 26 just to see if the Habs would bite. The other teams with multiple firsts are Arizona and Winnipeg, but they pick after 26. Arizona has four picks in the top 34, so they can definitely swing for the fences with those last three picks of theirs at the end of first/beginning of second. Drafting a Russian under the current state of the world, would be worse than selecting Mailloux. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 29, 2022 14:18:06 GMT -5
My pick is Wright. Slafs lack of production in the Liga worries me. Was he just not interested? Hell, Kotkaniemi had 29 points in 57 games in the Liga, playing for an awful team. Double Slaf's 10 points to make up for the fewer games he played, and it's still not impressive. In a Twitter debate, one guy said that his points picked up when he was moved up to the 2nd line later in the year and another guy pulled up the last 16 games or so and showed he got 4 point in those final games. But he did well at the U-18's as NWT says and there's those two International tournaments. The caveats with those was that there were hardly any NHL players at the Olympics (which were played on a hybrid ice surface halfway between International and NHL) and only some at the worlds, where Slaf did not show well against the better teams, while padding his stats vs Italy, etc.
That concerns me because the number of NHL players in the NHL grows substantially (no kidding). I see a similarity between Slaf and Nichushkin. VK was a very good prospect with Dallas, producing 34 points in 79 games his rookie season at 18 years of age. It just never really progressed after that. His first 2 years with the Avs, he produced .40 ppg, which is Josh Anderson territory and then exploded this year at age 26 with ,84 ppg. But it was a final contract year and he's a UFA in July. Maybe Slaf's desire and commitment is stronger than Nichushkin's but even using this past year as an example, would you use a 1st overall pick on a guy who'll produce at best 69 points a year? Or he might be another Rantanen. Who knows?
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Post by Andrew on Jun 29, 2022 15:14:19 GMT -5
That concerns me because the number of NHL players in the NHL grows substantially (no kidding). I see a similarity between Slaf and Nichushkin. VK was a very good prospect with Dallas, producing 34 points in 79 games his rookie season at 18 years of age. It just never really progressed after that. His first 2 years with the Avs, he produced .40 ppg, which is Josh Anderson territory and then exploded this year at age 26 with ,84 ppg. But it was a final contract year and he's a UFA in July. Maybe Slaf's desire and commitment is stronger than Nichushkin's but even using this past year as an example, would you use a 1st overall pick on a guy who'll produce at best 69 points a year? Or he might be another Rantanen. Who knows? I was thinking of Nichushkin as an interesting comparable also. One consideration with bigger framed players is that they typically have a longer development curve. A fantasy hockey site that I follow observes that offensive players often have a breakout threshold at around the 200 game mark. For bigger players that doubles to as much as 400 games. By no means a rule, but something to think about. Looking at Nichushkin, he just hit 400 games this season, in which he broke out. I feel like Slafkovsky may follow a similar trajectory and frustrate the heck out of the fanbase and team that drafts him, hoping for immediate results. |
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Draft 2022
Jun 29, 2022 19:12:16 GMT -5
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 29, 2022 19:12:16 GMT -5
I'm all for sticking with Wright, I dont want Dvorak playing #2C for the next few years... Dvo plays 2C this year, get another high pick and then Wright moves in nect year and we have Suze-Wright for a decade
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Post by seventeen on Jun 29, 2022 20:50:06 GMT -5
I don't think Wright goes back to juniours next season. He's physically capable and more than ready mentally. I'd like to see Dvorak traded. I wouldn't mind at all going into next season without Dvo, without Anderson and without Petry. Wright, Ylonen and a bevy of d-men replace the 3.
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Draft 2022
Jun 29, 2022 23:43:12 GMT -5
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 29, 2022 23:43:12 GMT -5
I don't think Wright goes back to juniours next season. He's physically capable and more than ready mentally. I'd like to see Dvorak traded. I wouldn't mind at all going into next season without Dvo, without Anderson and without Petry. Wright, Ylonen and a bevy of d-men replace the 3. Agree but rather it be gallagher and not Anderson. We can throw in Hoffman and Drouin, Byron too. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 30, 2022 9:56:17 GMT -5
In the absence of super high conviction on Slafkofsky, I'd be terrified to pass on Shane Wright. I like 17's comment about Wright being decisive and super quick with passes, which speaks to his ability to read the play and his teammates. That quality stood out when I was watching Tampa - really the whole team - how decisive they are with the puck whether it's skate it, pass it, or shoot it.
Add to that it's a position of need and a scoring winger is, theoretically, easier to find than a top 6 quality, 2-way center... I'll take Shane Wright and live with the consequences.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 30, 2022 10:30:42 GMT -5
I'm all in for Wright too but if I am Hughes, I'd try to find a way into the the top 5 for a second pick.
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