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Post by Cranky on Mar 14, 2022 16:30:36 GMT -5
Another big 2C or 3C which may not be the worse idea but given that we have Evans and Poehling fighting for 3C, I'm not sure the value of this trade. I would look at a 2nd at the very highest and nothing more which may or may not be be enough depending on what the Habs brain trust see in him and his next contract. He's probably a 5 million as for a long term contract.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 14, 2022 17:33:08 GMT -5
He's only played 65, 50 and 50 games the past 3 seasons???
0.5 ppg average over those 3 years
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Post by folatre on Mar 14, 2022 17:59:47 GMT -5
Those are Covid seasons, so the issue with him is not his durability. It is his lack of productivity for projecting as a decent 2C in the league.
My sense is this would have no real implications for Poehling or Evans because those guys, with all due respect, have not shown nearly enough to be considered viable options on the second line. If this rumor holds some validity, then it probably says more about Dvorak being less than thrilled about playing hockey in Montreal (and perhaps Canada in general) and/or management being less than enthralled with Dvorak's overall game.
If it were a hockey trade based on Zacha and Dvorak, then I would say that New Jersey needs to add. Dvorak, despite his flaws (not a great skater, not really a play driver, not a good defensive centre), is a cut above Zacha offensively and, moreover, Dvorak has three years of term remaining on a fair contract, whereas Zacha needs a new contract and he is only more season away from UFA status. I would say, if the Habs can sign Zacha, then Zacha plus a 2024 second rounder in exchange for Dvorak would be fair.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 14, 2022 19:48:11 GMT -5
Devils have 3 YOUNGER centers with more points the Zacha so I don't see the logic of them trading for Dvorak.
We need proven defenseman and a starting goalie more then another center but, to me, a 2nd is a long term "maybe" then a proven NHLer that may be our 2C. IF...a giant IF he signs for a 6yr x 4.5, which I doubt, that's not bad for a 2C in his prime years. Well worth our high 2nd.
There is no such thing as too many centers, but there such a thing as too many low quality centers when we have other needs.
Which makes Dvorak expendable and decent quality trade bait.
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Post by folatre on Mar 14, 2022 21:34:00 GMT -5
For sure, Cranky, you are right that New Jersey is probably not the ideal dance partner if Dvorak and/or Gorton/Hughes are sour on continuing the relationship. But I am just trying to put a finger on the approximate trade value of Zacha. I certainly would not give up a 2023 or 2024 first rounder for Zacha because there is more than a decent chance that Montreal will be a poor team for the foreseeable future.
And it is not like Montreal can afford to give up any super talented young d-man for Zacha because the Habs are really in a period of needing to keep every young talented blueliner in order to rebuild the d-corps over the next couple of seasons.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 15, 2022 7:20:36 GMT -5
3 way trade?
To devils: Dvorak
To Wild: Zacha
To Habs: McBain
Not sure of cap hits, retained salary etc just reading buzz on habs wild and devils
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Post by drkcloud on Mar 15, 2022 11:28:34 GMT -5
3 way trade? To devils: Dvorak To Wild: Zacha To Habs: McBain Not sure of cap hits, retained salary etc just reading buzz on habs wild and devils McBain would be a decent pickup but it seems he has told the Wild that they plan to test UFA when his rights expire this summer as a NCAA player. Not sure what we would have to offer as a destination for a young scoring centerman who can essentially choose his destination zonecoverage.com/2022/wild/jack-mcbain-will-have-opportunities-if-he-signs-with-the-wild/ |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 15, 2022 12:01:29 GMT -5
3 way trade? To devils: Dvorak To Wild: Zacha To Habs: McBain Not sure of cap hits, retained salary etc just reading buzz on habs wild and devils McBain would be a decent pickup but it seems he has told the Wild that they plan to test UFA when his rights expire this summer as a NCAA player. Not sure what we would have to offer as a destination for a young scoring centerman who can essentially choose his destination zonecoverage.com/2022/wild/jack-mcbain-will-have-opportunities-if-he-signs-with-the-wild/What happens if the Habs say to him, "we'll give you an elc with bonuses and you can have the 2C position for the rest of the year, it's up to you to keep it next year" |
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Post by Andrew on Mar 15, 2022 12:37:02 GMT -5
The thing that concerns me about Zacha is his proneness to injury. I want durability as a high priority among players the Habs target. Give me a Thomas Plekanec type that goes an entire career without ever missing more than a handful of games in a season, and plays 80+ games in most of them.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 15, 2022 13:42:18 GMT -5
I have no idea how durable Zacha is but given that covid skewered everything, we would need a deeper dive to see if that is true.
Given how soft around the net turtleneck was, it's no wonder how little he was hurt. When i first scouted him, i thought he was Koivu Lite but it became apparent that he was a piece of work with the dirty stuff, but not going to into the hurt zones.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 15, 2022 15:07:17 GMT -5
I have generally liked Zacha, but he's not the most defensively responsible guy, though he can be a force offensively. Not consistently perhaps, but I have seen him have some pretty good games. He has put up 0.51 ppg last year and 0.7ppg the year before. That number is pretty good and the Devils were a really bad team 2 years ago. He was the leading scorer, in fact. He'll be 25 in April and he's a big boy at 6'3", 210 lbs. It all boils down to what he will cost, of course.
Are people suggesting replacing Dvorak with him? I'd think Dvorak is a slightly better player, even though his ppg are similar. Zacha is a better driver, though. He can create his own offense, while Dvorak needs someone to set him up so he can finish. I see Zacha as more of a winger than a centre anyway.
It wouldn't be a bad trade, if that's the cost.
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Post by folatre on Mar 15, 2022 21:27:12 GMT -5
I could see the value of a guy like Zacha and he is not really injury prone when you factor in the Covid game totals over the last three seasons. However, the devil is in the details.
First, what does New Jersey expect and hold out for in return for Zacha? I agree with Cranky that the Devils really have no compelling need to trade for a 2C/3C tweener like Dvorak given their abundance of young talent down the middle. And I would sure as heck not trade a first round pick for Zacha.
Second, he is not a clear cut 2C in any sense of what that means, and since he is a UFA in summer of 2023, what kind of contract is fair and what is he looking for?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 16, 2022 15:14:45 GMT -5
... some additional info from Elliotte Friedman ...
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 16, 2022 16:14:59 GMT -5
Another player off the market. Big coin and term.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 16, 2022 16:38:37 GMT -5
Another player off the market. Big coin and term. YIKES! If this is what a good top 6 gets, Suzuki is a steal. That 8 year contract is NOT going to age well. Kadri will be a biatch to sign for anything less then 6 million. My value on his is a retirement contract around 4 million, but that's unlikely now. Chiarot will also be a 5 plus million signing....and that's a mistake based on age. I wish we had him for two more years at 3.5 million. I have this ugly feeling that contracts are going to sky-rocket and players will try to extort any money they lost because of covid. |
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Post by franko on Mar 16, 2022 16:48:25 GMT -5
I have this ugly feeling that contracts are going to sky-rocket and players will try to extort any money they lost because of covid. and yet the cap isn't going to skyrocket, which means middle-income players will either be forced to take less or (more likely) entrance-level players will make it to the bigs earlier and middle-income and older players will be no more. except . . . GMs and owners |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 16, 2022 17:16:23 GMT -5
I have this ugly feeling that contracts are going to sky-rocket and players will try to extort any money they lost because of covid. and yet the cap isn't going to skyrocket, which means middle-income players will either be forced to take less or (more likely) entrance-level players will make it to the bigs earlier and middle-income and older players will be no more. except . . . GMs and owners When exactly did money suffer for being money? I loved the left's constant attack on money....as if they don't want piles of it for whatever cause they need it for and of course, for themselves. Rich are invincible....unless we want to do the Lenin thingy. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Mar 16, 2022 23:56:26 GMT -5
and yet the cap isn't going to skyrocket, which means middle-income players will either be forced to take less or (more likely) entrance-level players will make it to the bigs earlier and middle-income and older players will be no more. except . . . GMs and owners When exactly did money suffer for being money? I loved the left's constant attack on money....as if they don't want piles of it for whatever cause they need it for and of course, for themselves. Rich are invincible....unless we want to do the Lenin thingy. REVENUE must be way down due to covid. Isn't the cap due to drop? If the Habs get healthy wont they be WAY over the cap? |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 17, 2022 0:29:52 GMT -5
I have this ugly feeling that contracts are going to sky-rocket and players will try to extort any money they lost because of covid. and yet the cap isn't going to skyrocket, which means middle-income players will either be forced to take less or (more likely) entrance-level players will make it to the bigs earlier and middle-income and older players will be no more. except . . . GMs and owners We are already seeing this with teams that top load huge contracts on a few stars, and then not the least bit surprisingly fail to build enough depth on their team due to tight cap space. Or you see the fire sale teams that draft top picks and groom great young players that they (aka cheap owners) cannot afford to keep and sign for the long term…hello Ottawa. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 17, 2022 13:31:40 GMT -5
and yet the cap isn't going to skyrocket, which means middle-income players will either be forced to take less or (more likely) entrance-level players will make it to the bigs earlier and middle-income and older players will be no more. except . . . GMs and owners When exactly did money suffer for being money? I loved the left's constant attack on money....as if they don't want piles of it for whatever cause they need it for and of course, for themselves. Rich are invincible....unless we want to do the Lenin thingy. Nothing wrong with wanting to be, getting rich and staying rich, except that society needs to balance the very large number of impoverished with the very small number of guys rich enough to take space vacations, basically excessively rich. I always ask how much is enough? except that the numbers to the very, very rich, are nothing but a scorecard. Bezos is competing with Zuckerberg who is competing with Branson, who is competing with Putin and so on. |
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