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Post by Gogie on Sept 7, 2022 8:35:15 GMT -5
Discuss
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 7, 2022 9:48:02 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on Sept 7, 2022 10:36:23 GMT -5
It is good that he signed before camp opens. Management believes in this player and the buying four RFA years at a little bit of premium may in fact pay dividends for them.
For me I would have bridged this player for the reasons already outlined in this thread, but management's bet on the contract is not crazy risky. And basically if Dach blossoms into a productive two-way centre over the first two years of the deal then it will be possible to say well the years 2024-2026 would have cost in the $5 million per season neighborhood. Time will say.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 7, 2022 15:43:04 GMT -5
Habs management must have faith that Dach can become a solid 2C. I can only go back to the 2020/21 WJC team where Dach was injured in a pre-tournament game. Until then, he was the most dominant of the Canadian forwards, IMO. I had serious doubts Canada had the talent to win after he was injured. That team included forwards Dylan Cozens, Alex Newhook, Dylan Holloway, Cole Perfetti, Quinton Byfield, Phil Tomasino,, Peyton Krebs and Dawson Mercer. Dach looked better than all of those.
But that was 2 years ago and guys develop at different paces. If it was the wrist injury that was troubling Dach (along with the other Black Hawk shenanigans), HuGo's gamble may pay off. As folatre says, Time will tell.
PS. The defense on that team is interesting....Bowen Byram, Braden Schneider, Jamie Drysdale, Kaiden Guhle, Justin Barron and 3 others. For a team that didn't win gold, they had some guys who are turning out well, or have a really good chance of turning out well.
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Post by jkr on Sept 7, 2022 16:03:10 GMT -5
The more I think enough this, the more I am OK with it. At 1st, it seemed too long and too rich. But this approach, betting on the player, is far better than rewarding a guy for past service even though a reasonable person could predict that kind of contract could quickly become an anchor, like the Gallagher deal.
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Post by Cranky on Sept 7, 2022 16:19:24 GMT -5
I don't like this contract. Dach has done nothing to warrent this contract and it's purely based on "potential".
One of the human problem with ALL managers is they overvalue their handiwork. HuGo made the trade and HuGo is now saying they are betting big on their trade.
I would of preffered a 2.5 million contract for two years and then if warrented, I'm fine with 5 million the next two. That 5 million means we really do have a serious 2C on our hands.
Too early and too risky for unproven product.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 7, 2022 16:59:30 GMT -5
Hey, Gogie....great to see you posting, even if it was just one word.  |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 7, 2022 20:10:22 GMT -5
The more I think enough this, the more I am OK with it. At 1st, it seemed too long and too rich. But this approach, betting on the player, is far better than rewarding a guy for past service even though a reasonable person could predict that kind of contract could quickly become an anchor, like the Gallagher deal. You mentioned Gallagher, a player missing from discussions. While we debate rookies and acquisitions this warrior with an expensive contract goes under the radar. Even lazy, hurt, substance abuse Drouin is waiting patiently getting another chance on another team with another coach and new lines. If he is hurting with permanent injuries, cut him loose or give him another opportunity he courageously earned. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 7, 2022 21:03:43 GMT -5
I watched the Dach interview with Hughes and Dach said something interesting @ the 2:58 mark..."...just enjoy the game of hockey again..." I imagine it was a Saperlipopette show with the scandal and changes in management that this kid might be very happy to be out... later on Hughes says @ 5:20 he believes Montreal is a better enviroment for Kirby Dach...
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Sept 7, 2022 23:37:15 GMT -5
I watched the Dach interview with Hughes and Dach said something interesting @ the 2:58 mark..."...just enjoy the game of hockey again..." I imagine it was a Saperlipopette show with the scandal and changes in management that this kid might be very happy to be out... later on Hughes says @ 5:20 he believes Montreal is a better enviroment for Kirby Dach... Monahan said along the same lines. He wants to just love the game again. Pretty cool that Marty has created an environment to which players are attracted. Well technically, HuGo have created the environment (like Hughes said early in his first presser) as this is something they talk about and they hired Marty, going way out on a limb. It could be fun once HuGo get cap space and the team is getting better. That is the plan anyway. |
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Post by Gogie on Sept 8, 2022 6:41:48 GMT -5
Hey, Gogie....great to see you posting, even if it was just one word. I've been watching you guys! As I get older I find the younger guys here have more useful/interesting views on the current situation with the Habs so I content myself with learning from them. I'll always be around to comment on the glory days of my youth should the need arise!!! |
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 8, 2022 8:14:15 GMT -5
I watched the Dach interview with Hughes and Dach said something interesting @ the 2:58 mark..."...just enjoy the game of hockey again..." I imagine it was a Saperlipopette show with the scandal and changes in management that this kid might be very happy to be out... later on Hughes says @ 5:20 he believes Montreal is a better enviroment for Kirby Dach... Monahan said along the same lines. He wants to just love the game again. Pretty cool that Marty has created an environment to which players are attracted. Well technically, HuGo have created the environment (like Hughes said early in his first presser) as this is something they talk about and they hired Marty, going way out on a limb. It could be fun once HuGo get cap space and the team is getting better. That is the plan anyway. It'll be nice to be a destination for free agents |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Sept 8, 2022 8:17:26 GMT -5
Here is Engström’s goal.
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 8, 2022 9:27:25 GMT -5
I watched the Dach interview with Hughes and Dach said something interesting @ the 2:58 mark..."...just enjoy the game of hockey again..." I imagine it was a Saperlipopette show with the scandal and changes in management that this kid might be very happy to be out... later on Hughes says @ 5:20 he believes Montreal is a better enviroment for Kirby Dach... I too watched the presser and was surprised how young Dach seemed for a guy that has 3 years NHL experience. He has a good way about him (I would too if I signed a deal for $3+ per year). Hughes goes on, as he always does, about the person's character being critical. I'm assuming Hughes knew Dach's character before he made the trade, which is valuable info that MB, who also praised character but had a hard time recognizing it. It would seem Hughes knows how to evaluate the person, given who he has brought in, starting with Marty. Let's hope he's able to evaluate potential as well and we're on our way. |
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Post by folatre on Sept 9, 2022 18:46:29 GMT -5
I know there are always 'boundaries' respected in terms of imposing outside 'consultants' on a member of one's exec team (in this case, it would be Marty St. Louis). But it sure seems like it would behoove management to reach out and see if Carbonneau would like to spend some time before or after camp practices to help Dach with his faceoff techniques, timing, and reads.
I assume Gorton and Hughes did not pass on Wright and trade the 13th overall (Romanov) unless the plan is to develop Dach into a viable 2C (or dominant 3C). So it reasons that one piece of the puzzle in terms of developing a young centre is get his faceoff efficiency up to snuff.
Things are more crowded down the middle with the acquisition of Monahan (assuming he is physically ready for the grind). I understand that. But I really hope the plan is to be patient and let Dach grow into the centre role. I mean, the Habs are going to be a losing team this season so what could it hurt to prioritize getting the kids ice time in the roles they project into?
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 10, 2022 16:52:15 GMT -5
The challenge is giving the kids ice time but you also want to give vets in the last year of their contract ice time to increase their trade deadline value...
Monahan, Drouin (who changed his number to 27,does he fancy himself Kovalev), Dadanov, Byron..
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Post by folatre on Sept 10, 2022 19:13:43 GMT -5
That is true too, Willie. But there are only twelve forwards in the lineup each night, so right off the bat there is a numbers crunch. And some of the guys on the roster are not really suited to bringing energy, playing limited minutes, and killing penalties so fourth line duty may not be equally applicable to all of them.
It would be nice to get a decent or prospect for each of the soon to be UFAs on the Habs roster. However, it is probably unlikely because some of those guys are oft-injured and frankly if they are all healthy then there will not be room in the lineup for all of them.
I would call it a net positive if the aggregate return from the four UFA forwards was a second rounder, a third and a fourth. My working assumption is Monahan looks good enough between November and the deadline to garner a second; either Dadonov and Drouin finds a regular spot in the lineup and manages to be decently productive hence a third rounder; and Byron gets back into the lineup a month before the trade deadline and looks enough like his old self to attract a fourth round pick from a team that needs some insurance on the PK and bottom six.
I would love it if those guys yielded two firsts and two seconds but that is probably just not realistic. And in reality I would rather kids get cast in the roles they should have (Caufield on first line and PP1; Dach as a middle six centre; Pezzetta and Evans as fixtures on the fourth line) even if it means one of the vet forwards gets marginalized and thus attracts no interest at the deadline.
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 11, 2022 3:04:56 GMT -5
That is true too, Willie. But there are only twelve forwards in the lineup each night, so right off the bat there is a numbers crunch. And some of the guys on the roster are not really suited to bringing energy, playing limited minutes, and killing penalties so fourth line duty may not be equally applicable to all of them. It would be nice to get a decent or prospect for each of the soon to be UFAs on the Habs roster. However, it is probably unlikely because some of those guys are oft-injured and frankly if they are all healthy then there will not be room in the lineup for all of them. I would call it a net positive if the aggregate return from the four UFA forwards was a second rounder, a third and a fourth. My working assumption is Monahan looks good enough between November and the deadline to garner a second; either Dadonov and Drouin finds a regular spot in the lineup and manages to be decently productive hence a third rounder; and Byron gets back into the lineup a month before the trade deadline and looks enough like his old self to attract a fourth round pick from a team that needs some insurance on the PK and bottom six. I would love it if those guys yielded two firsts and two seconds but that is probably just not realistic. And in reality I would rather kids get cast in the roles they should have (Caufield on first line and PP1; Dach as a middle six centre; Pezzetta and Evans as fixtures on the fourth line) even if it means one of the vet forwards gets marginalized and thus attracts no interest at the deadline. It would be nice to get some return for our UFAs. But to be honest, I'll be happy just to see their backsides. They're not part of our future and they will open up cap space. Given what they are being paid, they should bring in much more than what you suggest. But the reality is they are overpaid for what they bring, which is why we are likely to get a lot less in return. All this means the sooner we dump them the better off we are. Letting the kids play should be our top priority. We should not be letting a stately of letting the vets play to increase their trade value supplant development of the kids. |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 11, 2022 9:55:53 GMT -5
That is true too, Willie. But there are only twelve forwards in the lineup each night, so right off the bat there is a numbers crunch. And some of the guys on the roster are not really suited to bringing energy, playing limited minutes, and killing penalties so fourth line duty may not be equally applicable to all of them. It would be nice to get a decent or prospect for each of the soon to be UFAs on the Habs roster. However, it is probably unlikely because some of those guys are oft-injured and frankly if they are all healthy then there will not be room in the lineup for all of them. I would call it a net positive if the aggregate return from the four UFA forwards was a second rounder, a third and a fourth. My working assumption is Monahan looks good enough between November and the deadline to garner a second; either Dadonov and Drouin finds a regular spot in the lineup and manages to be decently productive hence a third rounder; and Byron gets back into the lineup a month before the trade deadline and looks enough like his old self to attract a fourth round pick from a team that needs some insurance on the PK and bottom six. I would love it if those guys yielded two firsts and two seconds but that is probably just not realistic. And in reality I would rather kids get cast in the roles they should have (Caufield on first line and PP1; Dach as a middle six centre; Pezzetta and Evans as fixtures on the fourth line) even if it means one of the vet forwards gets marginalized and thus attracts no interest at the deadline. It would be nice to get some return for our UFAs. But to be honest, I'll be happy just to see their backsides. They're not part of our future and they will open up cap space. Given what they are being paid, they should bring in much more than what you suggest. But the reality is they are overpaid for what they bring, which is why we are likely to get a lot less in return. All this means the sooner we dump them the better off we are. Letting the kids play should be our top priority. We should not be letting a stately of letting the vets play to increase their trade value supplant development of the kids. #LetPrimeauPlay |
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 11, 2022 11:47:32 GMT -5
Doing the "math", the strategy of letting he vets play to increase their trade value makes little sense. If they play well and do increase their value, then the likely result is we get more points in the standings and decrease our chance of getting a top 1st and 2nd round draft pick. That doesn't seem like a good trade off to me: give up potential top draft picks to get a mid to late 2nd and 3rd rounder and prevent the kids from developing. Let the kids play!
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Post by seventeen on Sept 11, 2022 14:02:00 GMT -5
It would be nice to get some return for our UFAs. But to be honest, I'll be happy just to see their backsides. They're not part of our future and they will open up cap space. Given what they are being paid, they should bring in much more than what you suggest. But the reality is they are overpaid for what they bring, which is why we are likely to get a lot less in return. All this means the sooner we dump them the better off we are. Letting the kids play should be our top priority. We should not be letting a stately of letting the vets play to increase their trade value supplant development of the kids. I lean toward your thinking with one caveat. I wouldn't have thought we could move Weber's contract, or pick up a first and Monahan for nothing (thanks to Price). Despite being left in a CAP space vise, Hughes has done admirably in improving the asset base despite it. There may always be someone who sees value in one of our guys in their particular circumstances and Hughes is willing to pull the trigger. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 11, 2022 16:36:12 GMT -5
Doing the "math", the strategy of letting he vets play to increase their trade value makes little sense. If they play well and do increase their value, then the likely result is we get more points in the standings and decrease our chance of getting a top 1st and 2nd round draft pick. That doesn't seem like a good trade off to me: give up potential top draft picks to get a mid to late 2nd and 3rd rounder and prevent the kids from developing. Let the kids play! And what happens if the kids play well?... u just don't know until you know |
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Post by habsask on Sept 11, 2022 17:43:55 GMT -5
It would be nice to get some return for our UFAs. But to be honest, I'll be happy just to see their backsides. They're not part of our future and they will open up cap space. Given what they are being paid, they should bring in much more than what you suggest. But the reality is they are overpaid for what they bring, which is why we are likely to get a lot less in return. All this means the sooner we dump them the better off we are. Letting the kids play should be our top priority. We should not be letting a stately of letting the vets play to increase their trade value supplant development of the kids. I lean toward your thinking with one caveat. I wouldn't have thought we could move Weber's contract, or pick up a first and Monahan for nothing (thanks to Price). Despite being left in a CAP space vise, Hughes has done admirably in improving the asset base despite it. There may always be someone who sees value in one of our guys in their particular circumstances and Hughes is willing to pull the trigger. I agree with the above. We have to remember, though, that it takes 2 (or more) teams to make a trade happen and as seventeen reminded us Hughes has done fairly well so far. So I advocate patience to see what else he can do especially as the new season's trade deadline approaches and teams get antsy to add that "one more player" to win the Cup visions rise above the horizon for them. Just my 2 cents as usual. Cheers |
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Post by Cranky on Sept 11, 2022 19:19:07 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents as usual. Cheers You keep pushing those 2 cents since 2003. With inflation, they are worth about .6 cents so I demand you raise it to 5 cents.cheapo... |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 12, 2022 8:39:52 GMT -5
It would be nice to get some return for our UFAs. But to be honest, I'll be happy just to see their backsides. They're not part of our future and they will open up cap space. Given what they are being paid, they should bring in much more than what you suggest. But the reality is they are overpaid for what they bring, which is why we are likely to get a lot less in return. All this means the sooner we dump them the better off we are. Letting the kids play should be our top priority. We should not be letting a stately of letting the vets play to increase their trade value supplant development of the kids. I lean toward your thinking with one caveat. I wouldn't have thought we could move Weber's contract, or pick up a first and Monahan for nothing (thanks to Price). Despite being left in a CAP space vise, Hughes has done admirably in improving the asset base despite it. There may always be someone who sees value in one of our guys in their particular circumstances and Hughes is willing to pull the trigger. I think you should wait on that We have to move people. We might be losing first rounders ourselves to accomplish that |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Sept 12, 2022 9:36:11 GMT -5
Drouin (who changed his number to 27,does he fancy himself Kovalev), . As an aside, I think he wore 27 in Tampa but Alzner had it when he first arrived. |
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Post by seventeen on Sept 12, 2022 13:34:23 GMT -5
Drouin (who changed his number to 27,does he fancy himself Kovalev), . As an aside, I think he wore 27 in Tampa but Alzner had it when he first arrived. Just one more thing we can blame on Alzner.  |
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