Buffalo vs Montreal Tuesday Nov 22 @ 7 PM ET

[Skilly]

What is it with our defense not being able to handle a pass .... is it nerves?

[Skilly]

Those 5 guys in red are Buffalo's best penalty killers

[Willie Dog]

How does Cozens not get 2nd man in, Guhle is engaged with a Sabre and Cozens acts like he has a Bruins jersey on and jumps Guhle

[Skilly]

How does Allen not know that Thomason's only play from that angle is to pass it out front .... this guy makes $4.5 million!

[Willie Dog]

I hate Skinner... wish he would go away

[folatre]

When the Sherriff is not patrolling the ice, even an insipid bunch like the Sabres feel bigger.

[Skilly]

Jake Allen has to go ....

[Skilly]

We learned one thing tonight .... Slafkovsky is underwhelming on the PP, and he has to get off that Dvorak line

[Skilly]

Jake Allen can't stopped a beach ball

Just look at his glove positioning ... that's not how an NHL goalie sets his glove to a shot

[Willie Dog]

They need to lose against Columbus and Chicago

[jkr]

Are they just going to keep putting Allen out there? Montembault isn't much better & Primeau's numbers in Laval are lousy.

I hope they are on the hunt for a goaltending solution. Jeez, a bad team comes in on an 8 game losing streak and just hammers them.

[Willie Dog]

Nov 22, 2022 21:39:25 GMT -5 jkr said:

Are they just going to keep putting Allen out there? Montembault isn't much better & Primeau's numbers in Laval are lousy.

I hope they are on the hunt for a goaltending solution. Jeez, a bad team comes in on an 8 game losing streak and just hammers them.

They don't have much choice... no one will take Allen with his contract ($3.85M for 2 years) after this year... and the cap space they have now will be used to take on playoff team contracts

[Skilly]

Nov 22, 2022 21:39:25 GMT -5 jkr said:

Are they just going to keep putting Allen out there? Montembault isn't much better & Primeau's numbers in Laval are lousy.

I hope they are on the hunt for a goaltending solution. Jeez, a bad team comes in on an 8 game losing streak and just hammers them.

I wouldn't call it a hammering. MTL dominated for much of the game. Just Allen couldn't stop a thing unless it accidentally hit him, and BUF could have pulled the goalie when the Dvorak line was on

[folatre]

I know it is not fun or easy for fans, but to be honest management has ample time to solve the medium or long-term issue in net.

Games like the one tonight or last week in Columbus remind us about what we knew was coming in 2022-23. It is the big picture that matters.

[Willie Dog]

The kids we drafted are developing and the young guys on the team are learning from MSL... it's tough to watch them lose like this but in the grand scheme if can get a Fantilli, we would be a cup contender in 4 or 5 years and contend for 5 years after that....

[Cranky]

Umm...well...we need a real goaltender...

Aug 20, 2022 14:08:38 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Price...go away. Thank you but now you need to get out of the picture.

We have Allen and Sieve, aka Montehole. Fine but we need to look at 3 years ahead and a top 10 goalie.

Primeau does not give me a top 10 vibe and maybe not even a top 30 starter. It's the last year of passing through waivers and if he's not NHL ready by next year, he's gone.

So...do we target a young goalie through trade? Wait? Waffle? Or worry?

BTW..Oettinger is out there as RFA but the first we have to give up is our first. Not worth a top five draft even though there is the possibility of oettinger being Price at 23.

Thoughts?

[habsorbed]

After Suze's line there is nothing up front. Hard to believe we got Gally and Josh long term for that kind of cap hit.

Guhle is fun to watch and he's gonna be a good one. The other D not so much. Not impressed with Math at all. He is a good skater but poor decisions and terrible in our own end. Harris has played poorly for a few weeks now, and tonight might have been his worst. And X should always be dressed. He's no worse than the others and has great potential. But most importantly, he has a presence out there - his size and truculence changes the complexion of the game and our confidence.

We do not have a starting goalie, and we knew that going in. That me be part of the master plan to get Bedard. HuGo ain't going to get a goalie anytime soon - there is no point.

As has been said, this season is all about watching the kids develop, and getting a top pick. So far so good!

[jkr]

I understand the plan & I know there are skaters in the pipeline. But who are the goalies? They dont develop overnight. Primeau is struggling in Laval and looks less and less like that guy.

If they need a netminder in 2 years I sure hope they are looking now.

[Skilly]

Nov 23, 2022 4:59:17 GMT -5 jkr said:

I understand the plan & I know there are skaters in the pipeline. But who are the goalies? They dont develop overnight. Primeau is struggling in Laval and looks less and less like that guy.

If they need a netminder in 2 years I sure hope they are looking now.

Not only that, but losing like they did last night, breeds poor habits and a "why should I care attitude"

Sure lose, lose based on the other team being better, or more talented ... the losses should be 4-3, 3-2 .... as Caufield said in his interview, this team feels like they are in every game and can make up 2 goal deficits. But when you are working your tail off, getting back into games, only to see the goaltender waste that hard work. That's not an environment for development. (See Laval).

Now, what if they lose, and they still don't get a top 10 pick? What then? Start over?

If the lottery was held today we'd have the 12th and 14th balls ...

[Tankdriver]

Nov 23, 2022 6:33:15 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Nov 23, 2022 4:59:17 GMT -5 jkr said:

I understand the plan & I know there are skaters in the pipeline. But who are the goalies? They dont develop overnight. Primeau is struggling in Laval and looks less and less like that guy.

If they need a netminder in 2 years I sure hope they are looking now.

Not only that, but losing like they did last night, breeds poor habits and a "why should I care attitude"

Sure lose, lose based on the other team being better, or more talented ... the losses should be 4-3, 3-2 .... as Caufield said in his interview, this team feels like they are in every game and can make up 2 goal deficits. But when you are working your tail off, getting back into games, only to see the goaltender waste that hard work. That's not an environment for development. (See Laval).

Now, what if they lose, and they still don't get a top 10 pick? What then? Start over?

If the lottery was held today we'd have the 12th and 14th balls ...

The only issue I see is that I don't want to be trading a high draft pick to get one. I think come trade deadline, if there is one out there that we can trade an expiring contract for, then that will be the way to go. Ideally it would be Askarov (Preds) but they haven't been good this year. There is also Garand with the Rangers or Wolf with the Flames that have long term tenders signed in front of them. In the end, for some reason goal tenders aren't in high demand trade wise. Remember what Halak got us in trade? It's almost easier to sign a FA.

[habsorbed]

People seem to be overreacting to one blow out loss. We've been in most games and our goalies have actually kept us in, if not won, a few games for us. I don't see our goaltending as any worse than our D or our bottom 9. This is simply not a strong team at the beginning of a rebuild. We knew that going in, and we know MB was the cause.

Now is not the time to be going and looking for a goalie. I don't buy the argument having a weak goalie is poor for players' development. Many teams have poor goalies and turn things around - see NJ. And if having a bad goalie is so bad for players' development, why are Nick and Cole having such amazing years after last years debacle. In fact, I'd argue having a good goalie is bad for players' development, as the players get use to being bailed out, and develop bad habits - see Carey era.

[PTH]

This game is the reason I record games and watch them later. After 5 minutes I started skipping ahead since it was unlikely to lead to anything good.

I liked Dach's all-around game... I really hope he can turn into a solid #2 center.

[jkr]

Nov 23, 2022 10:57:22 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

People seem to be overreacting to one blow out loss. We've been in most games and our goalies have actually kept us in, if not won, a few games for us. I don't see our goaltending as any worse than our D or our bottom 9. This is simply not a strong team at the beginning of a rebuild. We knew that going in, and we know MB was the cause.

Now is not the time to be going and looking for a goalie. I don't buy the argument having a weak goalie is poor for players' development. Many teams have poor goalies and turn things around - see NJ. And if having a bad goalie is so bad for players' development, why are Nick and Cole having such amazing years after last years debacle. In fact, I'd argue having a good goalie is bad for players' development, as the players get use to being bailed out, and develop bad habits - see Carey era.

Have to disagree about the timing of a goalie search. If this team is 2-3 years out from a playoff team then now is the time. Find the guy and start developing him so that the position is filled when the rest of the team is ready.

[Cranky]

I also think t hat we need to find that goalie sooner rather then later.

it's going to be a clusterpuke in 3 years if we have all this firepower and decent defense only to be let down by horrible goaltending. Even in beer league, nothing is more deflating then watching your goalie play like a toddler on skates.

Time to look is now or this year....

[Skilly]

Nov 23, 2022 17:19:14 GMT -5 Cranky said:

I also think t hat we need to find that goalie sooner rather then later.

it's going to be a clusterpuke in 3 years if we have all this firepower and decent defense only to be let down by horrible goaltending. Even in beer league, nothing is more deflating then watching your goalie play like a toddler on skates.

Time to look is now or this year....

As long as we don't have a potential goalie to be the next #1, the Carey Price circus will remain

Getting that goalie into the system earlier, will put an end to his potential comeback too.

[habsorbed]

We have lots of time to find a decent goalie. This team ain't contending for at least 2 years. Slafs, Guhle, Dach, Harris, Barron, X, and even Suze and Cole need to develop and won't be ready for prime time until then. I wouldn't be looking for a goalie until after the end of this year. See what's in the pipeline but realistically it will be an FA that gets us the goalie. And who knows, maybe Monty will come into his own. In the meantime let's get a top draft choice this year.

[Skilly]

Nov 24, 2022 3:12:10 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

We have lots of time to find a decent goalie. This team ain't contending for at least 2 years. Slafs, Guhle, Dach, Harris, Barron, X, and even Suze and Cole need to develop and won't be ready for prime time until then. I wouldn't be looking for a goalie until after the end of this year. See what's in the pipeline but realistically it will be an FA that gets us the goalie. And who knows, maybe Monty will come into his own. In the meantime let's get a top draft choice this year.

Development isn't linear. We could quite possibly be seeing the best year of Suzuki's entire career. We look back on Price's career now and point to certain years and say "if only he had a decent center / scoring in front of him". Auston Matthews scored over 100 points last year, do you think he'll do that every year now? No. I never understood the "dominate in lower levels" or "develop more" arguement. Just imagine this team, this year, with a 0.920+ goalie ... we'd have at least 3-4 more wins.

As for getting another top draft choice. Everyone, myself included, would love that. But will we be getting an elite player? Or another high draft project? It will soon come time for us all to give up on the top 10 pick dream. Unless the arse comes out of er, (and we have seen that happen in previous years), this team will be drafting in the 12-16 range. Who will be available there?

[habsorbed]

Nov 24, 2022 7:02:52 GMT -5 Skilly said:

Nov 24, 2022 3:12:10 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

We have lots of time to find a decent goalie. This team ain't contending for at least 2 years. Slafs, Guhle, Dach, Harris, Barron, X, and even Suze and Cole need to develop and won't be ready for prime time until then. I wouldn't be looking for a goalie until after the end of this year. See what's in the pipeline but realistically it will be an FA that gets us the goalie. And who knows, maybe Monty will come into his own. In the meantime let's get a top draft choice this year.

Development isn't linear. We could quite possibly be seeing the best year of Suzuki's entire career. We look back on Price's career now and point to certain years and say "if only he had a decent center / scoring in front of him". Auston Matthews scored over 100 points last year, do you think he'll do that every year now? No. I never understood the "dominate in lower levels" or "develop more" arguement. Just imagine this team, this year, with a 0.920+ goalie ... we'd have at least 3-4 more wins.

As for getting another top draft choice. Everyone, myself included, would love that. But will we be getting an elite player? Or another high draft project? It will soon come time for us all to give up on the top 10 pick dream. Unless the arse comes out of er, (and we have seen that happen in previous years), this team will be drafting in the 12-16 range. Who will be available there?

Even if we had the best goalie in the league right now we might just make the playoffs and we certainly wouldn't make any noise. Been there, done that! The truism is you build through the draft, particularly with high draft picks. Our only chance of doing that is with a poor finish this year which will be achieved with the current team, not a strong goalie. Drafting 12-16 will not help us going forward. Been there done that.

As for our young players getting better: the clear evidence is that forwards peak in their mid to late 20s, defencemen a little later. It wold be a shock if Suze, Cole, Guhle and the the young ones are not better players a few years from now.

As for draft position: no doubt drafting high is no guarantee of a strong player, but there is also no doubt that the higher you draft the better chance you have of getting a strong player.

I like to follow the percentages so I don't want a strong goalie this year.

[Tankdriver]

Montreal's problem is that they don't suck really bad 2 years in a row. We've had 3, 3rd overall picks in the past 15 years and haven't been able to pair those up with a second consective bad year. You need 2 to 3 consecutive bad years to build a solid team. Look at Pittsburgh (Fleury, Crosby, Malkin Staal), Toronto (Marner, Matthews) Chicago (Kane, Toews), Edmonton (Drasitl, McDavid, RNH) and now NJ (Hughes, Hischier, Holtz, Nemec) as examples.

[folatre]

Yes, for sure, if Montreal played the rest of the season as well as they have until now, then drafting in the 12-16 range would be the outcome. But the season is at the one-quarter marker post and for me it is just as likely if not likelier Montreal finishes in the 8-10 range.

Hockey is debatable. I think the only rosters inferior to Montreal's are the following: Anaheim, Chicago, Arizona, San Jose, Columbus, and Philadelphia. There are few logical reasons to believe teams like Vancouver, Nashville, Ottawa, Buffalo, and Washington will finish beneath the Habs unless one reasons that Montreal has secret weapons such as superior coaching and work ethic that those other teams lack.