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Post by CentreHice on Dec 24, 2022 10:07:32 GMT -5
I agree with seventeen.
Unfortunately, last year wasn't THIS year, draft-wise.
Many teams have suffered through 2 or more consecutive low-finish seasons...and the 2023 draft is reportedly teeming with early gold.
Suzuki, Caufield, and Slafs need another top-shelf youngster to develop with them.
Then we probably worry about keeping them all in a few years...but that's a situation HuGo would likely be happy to work around.
We can't just keep filling roster spots with Armias, Dvoraks, Hoffmans, etc. to support one or two higher-end players.
Been there, done that for a long time.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 24, 2022 11:00:47 GMT -5
Sure, but we won't be getting one of good ones like everyone hopes ...we will be getting the B talent in the 8-15 range. Granted we may get 2 of them. But then THAT group has to develop for a year, (or two), then go a year trying to learn to win (keeping a lead, staying out of the box, etc). The good habits are 3-4 years away ... wasting many Suzuki-Caufield years But if we keep losing (as well as Florida), we improve the odds of the lottery balls and getting into that top 4 or 5. Right now we'd be picking 8th and 11th. But the teams behind us include Ottawa, Philly and San Jose, all of whom are capable of catching us. Earlier this year we were in a playoff spot, and now we're 25th. I can't see us catching the Yotes, Hawks,Quacks, Goodbye Columbus, but the rest are possible and with luck, we could be picking 5th and 6th before the lottery balls fall. With two teams in that mix, our odds rise to 16% instead of the 11% they're at now. It's also important to get down to those levels as insurance if the balls don't fall our way. That first tier this year is the top 4 picks and then the next tier is another 4 or 5 deep again. That second tier isn't just top 6 guys...it's impact top 6 guys. There are also a couple of d-men that are rising up the charts according to some evaluators. But regardless of who else might climb the charts later, who'd say no right now to Andrew Cristall or Brayden Yager or Zach Benson who is the youngest guy on the Winnipeg Ice and their leading scorer (20-26-46 in 29 games). The Ice have Connor Geekie and Matthew Savoie, who went 11th and 9th respectively in the 2022 draft, but Benson is blowing them away. I saw Benson in the U18's and he is a very dangerous scorer with a high, high, IQ. He's +26 in 29 games, on a very good team of course, but that's a stratospheric number and the highest on the team. And he's not in the top tier! He's also from Chilliwack, BC, which is dairy country and what would a guy do to escape getting up at 5 a.m. to milk cows? It's a really good draft and we HAVE to take advantage. Maybe Hughes can trade one of our goalies so we'd have to call up someone who could go .880 or so. So CH wants "hope" and you are banking on "luck". I agree with the premise of what you both are saying. But if we can win, I'm not hoping for them to lose. Mistakes like last night are pee wee mistakes and now has cost us at least 3 wins by my count. Sure it's good for the tank, but this team could also be winning, and nothing beats winning. I'm rather surprised these blind pass mistakes are still occurring, and it's not just the rookies doing it ... that's concerning, real concerning. |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 24, 2022 11:03:18 GMT -5
Sure, but we won't be getting one of good ones like everyone hopes ...we will be getting the B talent in the 8-15 range. Granted we may get 2 of them. But then THAT group has to develop for a year, (or two), then go a year trying to learn to win (keeping a lead, staying out of the box, etc). The good habits are 3-4 years away ... wasting many Suzuki-Caufield years But if we keep losing (as well as Florida), we improve the odds of the lottery balls and getting into that top 4 or 5. Right now we'd be picking 8th and 11th. But the teams behind us include Ottawa, Philly and San Jose, all of whom are capable of catching us. Earlier this year we were in a playoff spot, and now we're 25th. I can't see us catching the Yotes, Hawks,Quacks, Goodbye Columbus, but the rest are possible and with luck, we could be picking 5th and 6th before the lottery balls fall. With two teams in that mix, our odds rise to 16% instead of the 11% they're at now. It's also important to get down to those levels as insurance if the balls don't fall our way. That first tier this year is the top 4 picks and then the next tier is another 4 or 5 deep again. That second tier isn't just top 6 guys...it's impact top 6 guys. There are also a couple of d-men that are rising up the charts according to some evaluators. But regardless of who else might climb the charts later, who'd say no right now to Andrew Cristall or Brayden Yager or Zach Benson who is the youngest guy on the Winnipeg Ice and their leading scorer (20-26-46 in 29 games). The Ice have Connor Geekie and Matthew Savoie, who went 11th and 9th respectively in the 2022 draft, but Benson is blowing them away. I saw Benson in the U18's and he is a very dangerous scorer with a high, high, IQ. He's +26 in 29 games, on a very good team of course, but that's a stratospheric number and the highest on the team. And he's not in the top tier! He's also from Chilliwack, BC, which is dairy country and what would a guy do to escape getting up at 5 a.m. to milk cows? It's a really good draft and we HAVE to take advantage. Maybe Hughes can trade one of our goalies so we'd have to call up someone who could go .880 or so. I'm not a draft expert. I pretty much rely on this board. But I've heard on here before that a draft was good, to only hear a few years later that we had the misfortune of drafting a player in a bad draft. Goes back to hope and luck again. |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 24, 2022 11:05:56 GMT -5
Marty's Line Blender gets 51 tomatoes. I'm Ok with him mixing things up but did anyone seeing these lines think this would work. Suze between Armia and Drouin - WTF. Both Cole and Suze may have played their worst games of thew season. And Drouin was just awful on the PP with countless turnovers and was responsible for the empty netter. And in the box for a lazy penalty when Stars scored first goal. I understand trying to get Drouin going so maybe we get something in return come March, but this is so painful to watch. Can't wait until FA day and no one signs him. I had such high hopes for Drouin. I didn't like the Sergachev trade based on what we did with the whole defense that year, but I agreed with the logic ... acquire offense. Boy oh boy, has Drouin ever been offensive. He certainly offends me being on the ice |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 24, 2022 11:08:42 GMT -5
. We can't just keep filling roster spots with Armias, Dvoraks, Hoffmans, etc. to support one or two higher-end players. Been there, done that for a long time. If only it was just those three! Drouins, tunnel vision Andersons, Dadonovs, ... |
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Post by folatre on Dec 24, 2022 11:51:50 GMT -5
But the thing is this roster does not have the necessary pieces to fight for a playoff spot. So essentially management needs to continue focusing strategically on the medium-term.
No, the Habs are not likely getting a projected franchise cornerstone type piece in this draft because it is very unlikely they will be picking in the top 4-5. However, I believe there are considerably more forwards in the 2023 draft who project to be top six NHLers than there are in a typical draft class. There are going to be excellent talents going in the 5-15 range.
Watching guys like Drouin, Dadonov, and Armia is depressing. If and when the Rocket runs out of runway to make the playoffs, I hope Hughes sends these vets with no market value down to Laval and gives the ice time with the Habs to younger players such as Harvey-Pinard and Ylonen.
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Post by habsorbed on Dec 24, 2022 13:31:56 GMT -5
OK folks, some simple math. At our current pace, we will likely have the 3rd best chance to get the first overall in 2023. I'm happy with that.
STL and Canucks are now ahead of us and will stay there. In all likelihood Sens will also finish ahead of us. The other bottom feeders are really bad so don't see them catching us. BUT, even so, that would give us 6.5% lottery chance at #1. We have Fla's 1st pick which is currently 9th overall and Sens may take them over which would put Fla at 6% lottery chance, and if not then 5% chance. You add those together as we will have our 'balls' and Fla 'balls' in the lottery, we have the the third best chance in the lottery of getting 1st overall (maybe 4th). I like these odds! Anywhere in the top 3, and even top 5, would be great. And likely 2 in the top 10. The tank plan is in place! Let's not blow it!
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 24, 2022 13:36:00 GMT -5
. We can't just keep filling roster spots with Armias, Dvoraks, Hoffmans, etc. to support one or two higher-end players. Been there, done that for a long time. If only it was just those three! Drouins, tunnel vision Andersons, Dadonovs, ... Agree. Included in the "etc."  |
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Post by PTH on Dec 24, 2022 14:28:47 GMT -5
Marty's Line Blender gets 51 tomatoes. I'm Ok with him mixing things up but did anyone seeing these lines think this would work. Suze between Armia and Drouin - WTF. Both Cole and Suze may have played their worst games of thew season. And Drouin was just awful on the PP with countless turnovers and was responsible for the empty netter. And in the box for a lazy penalty when Stars scored first goal. I understand trying to get Drouin going so maybe we get something in return come March, but this is so painful to watch. Can't wait until FA day and no one signs him. I had such high hopes for Drouin. I didn't like the Sergachev trade based on what we did with the whole defense that year, but I agreed with the logic ... acquire offense. Boy oh boy, has Drouin ever been offensive. He certainly offends me being on the ice Drouin is clearly a disappointment to all. Even if he didn't live up to high-end expectations, if he could be a productive, 50-60 point forward he would be worth a fortune as a rental, or we'd be hanging onto him. Right now I don't expect him in the NHL next season. Last night after 3 minutes Marc Denis mentioned how he'd already had 2 passes intercepted and had another turnover. I'd weird because the skill and vision are there, and he's working hard at times, but it's like it's not coming all together. He's regressed to being a clueless rookie. One thing I'd noticed on videos of all his goals as a Lightning was how they weren't tap-ins, these were goals he'd created himself or shots that beat goalies outright. What happened to that guy... |
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Post by PTH on Dec 24, 2022 14:43:57 GMT -5
Watching guys like Drouin, Dadonov, and Armia is depressing. If and when the Rocket runs out of runway to make the playoffs, I hope Hughes sends these vets with no market value down to Laval and gives the ice time with the Habs to younger players such as Harvey-Pinard and Ylonen. Yup. Armia we're stuck with for a while, so there's no reason to ruin the teams relationship with him, but Dadonov and Drouin should be out the door approx 0 seconds after the end of the season, so might as well use that ice time to see what other kids can do. RHP and Ylonen deserve a chance - Ylonen didn't look out of place when we called him up, and he's getting to the point where a contract in Europe might seem interesting to him. Might as well give him a chance before that happens. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Dec 24, 2022 15:18:10 GMT -5
The added twist with Ylönen is he will have to clear waivers next season, so management might want to get a bit of an extended looksie at the NHL level this season to ensure they are comfortable handing over a roster spot next season. It should not be an issue as he has done well in Laval this year and in his past call ups. His speed and one-timer can easily fill in for one of those “underachieving” vets who we will not miss once gone.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Dec 24, 2022 15:20:41 GMT -5
After last night’s offensive explosion by Pezzetta (his first multi point game), he now has twice as many goals as Evans, Armia and Drouin combined!
Let that sad fact sink in.
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Post by folatre on Dec 24, 2022 15:32:05 GMT -5
For sure, I think it makes a lot of sense to give Ylonen and Harvey-Pinard an extended audition (some action this season and then 2023-24) because I envision it is a long-shot for kids like Beck, Farrell, and Mesar to be NHL-ready next season.
Pezzetta is on a heater, jeje. I think Richard brought some life to the fourth line. I would re-sign Pezzetta because you always need an energy winger who is not going to back down from rough stuff.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 24, 2022 16:22:43 GMT -5
But if we keep losing (as well as Florida), we improve the odds of the lottery balls and getting into that top 4 or 5. Right now we'd be picking 8th and 11th. But the teams behind us include Ottawa, Philly and San Jose, all of whom are capable of catching us. Earlier this year we were in a playoff spot, and now we're 25th. I can't see us catching the Yotes, Hawks,Quacks, Goodbye Columbus, but the rest are possible and with luck, we could be picking 5th and 6th before the lottery balls fall. With two teams in that mix, our odds rise to 16% instead of the 11% they're at now. It's also important to get down to those levels as insurance if the balls don't fall our way. That first tier this year is the top 4 picks and then the next tier is another 4 or 5 deep again. That second tier isn't just top 6 guys...it's impact top 6 guys. There are also a couple of d-men that are rising up the charts according to some evaluators. But regardless of who else might climb the charts later, who'd say no right now to Andrew Cristall or Brayden Yager or Zach Benson who is the youngest guy on the Winnipeg Ice and their leading scorer (20-26-46 in 29 games). The Ice have Connor Geekie and Matthew Savoie, who went 11th and 9th respectively in the 2022 draft, but Benson is blowing them away. I saw Benson in the U18's and he is a very dangerous scorer with a high, high, IQ. He's +26 in 29 games, on a very good team of course, but that's a stratospheric number and the highest on the team. And he's not in the top tier! He's also from Chilliwack, BC, which is dairy country and what would a guy do to escape getting up at 5 a.m. to milk cows? It's a really good draft and we HAVE to take advantage. Maybe Hughes can trade one of our goalies so we'd have to call up someone who could go .880 or so. So CH wants "hope" and you are banking on "luck". I agree with the premise of what you both are saying. But if we can win, I'm not hoping for them to lose. Mistakes like last night are pee wee mistakes and now has cost us at least 3 wins by my count. Sure it's good for the tank, but this team could also be winning, and nothing beats winning. I'm rather surprised these blind pass mistakes are still occurring, and it's not just the rookies doing it ... that's concerning, real concerning. I've seen those passes in that area from the corner to the side of the net where the Dman passes it out in front instead of around the boards (if that's what you are referring to) and when it works, it's a terrific break out play because the other team wants you to ring it around the boards where a dman is waiting to pinch, etc. there's absolutely no one in front of the net except our guys. So, in theory its a great play and after that, it's execution. Clearly, that part isn't working out so well, but you have to try it. Yeah, you practice it over and over, but in a game, there's more pressure than in any practice, where no one wants to hurt a teammate so they go 90%. I don't have a problem with it unless the guy trying it has crappy hands and will never perfect the play. When it works...what a ton of space to race up the ice. It's often a 3 on 2. There's no better time to try it than now and I think MSL and the development coaches are using this year to do exactly that. Experiment. Get the kids doing things, that when they execute, puts a ton of pressure on the other team. And if it blows up (this year) so what? Frustrating for us, though, because even though I want a high pick, I'm still cheering for goals and good defensive plays and wins. The only time I have ever wanted to lose was the last couple of years of Berg's tenure because it was the lesser of two evils. |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 27, 2022 17:58:00 GMT -5
After all the interviews from the 5-2 loss to Czechia, there is one thing I’m pretty sure of. We should not draft Adam Fantilli for the EXACT same reason they didn’t draft Shane Wright. Arrogance
Ever player talked about playing too fancy and trying to make the pretty plays instead of the team play, but one. Fantilli. In the interview I saw, he talked about pulling off the Michigan move before and being confident he can do it again. It came as cross as he will try it again if given the chance. Which was totally not the message the team was trying to convey all day.
Wright wasn’t drafted because he allegedly was cocky in his play. Wright is the captain of this WJC team and saying all the “Wright” things. I can only hope Fantilli starts to play like a team player and not as a one man showcase
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