Horvat to Isles

[NWTHabsFan]

NYI are still on the bubble, but they are officially going for it. The protected first this year is top 12 protected. A decent return for the Nucks, but we need them to keep winning games 😉.

[seventeen]

Great trade for us. This makes Florida’s path to the playoffs harder. We’ll get a good pick no matter what the Canucks do and when Demko comes back that will help. Florida finishing low is really important, though. If we’re not lucky and Florida’s doesn’t move up in the lottery, we still get a shot at an RHD with that pick and a high end player, maybe a center, with ours.

[folatre]

For sure, Lamoriello going in hard makes Florida's path even more complicated.

I mentioned in our Habs trade deadline thread that Vancouver got a decent enough return that management there saves face even if the Islanders and Horvat have a long-term deal tucked away in Lou's desk drawer. Maybe Rutherford just wanted to get out in front of the situation instead of betting (risking) on a better trade materializing as the deadline approached.

[folatre]

I know that Lamoriello has a history of being bold and stealthy, but honestly I did not imagine Horvat going to the Islanders. This is probably good news for Montreal because now all the obvious teams that need/want a centre have one fewer trade target.

I imagine Armstrong (O'Reilly), Hughes (Monahan), Davidson (Domi), and maybe Verbeek (Henrique) are seeing an uptick in the incoming calls kicking tires.

[seventeen]

ROR and Monahan (if healthy) are a cut above the others. It certainly helps to have Horvat off the table. Canucks mske no sense. The obvious move was to trade
Miller last year and extend Horvat. Instead they do the opposite and likely get a worse return, keep an older, worse player and creste a contract problem 3 years from now. That’s the trouble with Rutherford. He doesn’t give a damn. It’ll be someone else’s problem. Just like MB when he saw the writing on the wall.

[PTH]

Jan 30, 2023 19:51:32 GMT -5 folatre said:

I know that Lamoriello has a history of being bold and stealthy, but honestly I did not imagine Horvat going to the Islanders. This is probably good news for Montreal because now all the obvious teams that need/want a centre have one fewer trade target.

I imagine Armstrong (O'Reilly), Hughes (Monahan), Davidson (Domi), and maybe Verbeek (Henrique) are seeing an uptick in the incoming calls kicking tires.

I'm just worried that Monahan isn't back on the ice yet.

If ever the demand for C's becomes high (say Toews decides he hates uncertainty and just refuses to waive his NMC, and O'Reilly gets moved to a surprise destination), I wonder if Dvorak gets put on the market. If Suzuki and Dach are the future, Evans and Pitlick can fill in for the short term at C...

[folatre]

Good catch, PTH, I forgot Toews. One would assume he is willing to move for the right destination. But he has kids and a life outside of hockey, so conceivably there could be the surprise where he just says no thanks, not right now, family matters more, hey I will just sort out the future in the summer when all families have time to exhale. Also, Toews has hoisted the Cup three times so it is not like he feels the same void that dudes who have never climbed to the top of the mountain do.

I want to be optimistic about Monahan and thus imagine with the ASG and bye-week coming up, management just wants to err on the side of caution in terms of when he returns.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 30, 2023 20:45:38 GMT -5 PTH said:

Jan 30, 2023 19:51:32 GMT -5 folatre said:

I know that Lamoriello has a history of being bold and stealthy, but honestly I did not imagine Horvat going to the Islanders. This is probably good news for Montreal because now all the obvious teams that need/want a centre have one fewer trade target.

I imagine Armstrong (O'Reilly), Hughes (Monahan), Davidson (Domi), and maybe Verbeek (Henrique) are seeing an uptick in the incoming calls kicking tires.

I'm just worried that Monahan isn't back on the ice yet.

If ever the demand for C's becomes high (say Toews decides he hates uncertainty and just refuses to waive his NMC, and O'Reilly gets moved to a surprise destination), I wonder if Dvorak gets put on the market. If Suzuki and Dach are the future, Evans and Pitlick can fill in for the short term at C...

I would be ok moving Monahan and Dvorak
...

[Tankdriver]

Jan 30, 2023 21:12:27 GMT -5 folatre said:

Good catch, PTH, I forgot Toews. One would assume he is willing to move for the right destination. But he has kids and a life outside of hockey, so conceivably there could be the surprise where he just says no thanks, not right now, family matters more, hey I will just sort out the future in the summer when all families have time to exhale. Also, Toews has hoisted the Cup three times so it is not like he feels the same void that dudes who have never climbed to the top of the mountain do.

I want to be optimistic about Monahan and thus imagine with the ASG and bye-week coming up, management just wants to err on the side of caution in terms of when he returns.

I see him traded to the Jets at the deadline with Max cap retention, being that he is from there.

[folatre]

For sure, Tank, that may be a good spot for him. Winnipeg is secure in the standings, but over the last 3-4 weeks they have suffered from a lack of secondary scoring.

The Insiders on TSN were saying tonight that Horvat supposedly had the Islanders on his summer radar before the trade happened. So the incoming extension will not be a shocker. Horvat is a nice player, super deadly shooting from the slot. But he is not really a play driving centre and he is not above average defensively, and he certainly does not have a menacing physical presence. Giving him eight years in the $8.25 AAV neighborhood sounds like trouble.

[seventeen]

Kevin Weekes tweeted that a source of his inside a GM's office (not Vancouver's or New York's) said that his (the source's) team was interested in Horvat, but the Canucks had their sights set on the Islanders and weren't interested in talking to other teams.

Weekes isn't a $hit disturber, so one tends to give him a reasonable amount of credence. If true, this statement raises a lot of ugly questions, most starting with "Why". Why would you not auction off Horvat rather than talking to just one team? What was so wonderful about the Isles offer that may have been bettered by others? Why would you not allow other teams to talk extension to Horvat when doing so would unquestionably improve the return.

Again....what Weekes heard may not be true. My guess is that it is. There were rumblings from other respected sources (Lebrun, Friedman) that the Canucks weren't allowing Horvat's agent to talk to other teams. One really has to wonder at Rutherford's management. He extends Miller for 7 years for a guy who will be 30 in March. He handles the Boudreau situation very badly and then he may not have maximized Horvat's trade value through a conscious decision of his. If Rutherford had a six shooter, he'd need 4 more feet.

[Cranky]

Jan 31, 2023 21:04:37 GMT -5 folatre said:

For sure, Tank, that may be a good spot for him. Winnipeg is secure in the standings, but over the last 3-4 weeks they have suffered from a lack of secondary scoring.

The Insiders on TSN were saying tonight that Horvat supposedly had the Islanders on his summer radar before the trade happened. So the incoming extension will not be a shocker. Horvat is a nice player, super deadly shooting from the slot. But he is not really a play driving centre and he is not above average defensively, and he certainly does not have a menacing physical presence. Giving him eight years in the $8.25 AAV neighborhood sounds like trouble.

He's no....wait for it....wait....wait...he's no Dubois. (Yeah, I bet you were surprised at t he answer. )

[folatre]

Cranky, right answer. No matter how one chooses to slice the apple, Dubois is the better player to invest in. Not only is he three years younger, his career points per game (.705 vs .676) is already better than Horvat. Also, Dubois is a superior two-way centre and he takes a physical toll on opponents.

[Andrew]

Horvat signs for 8 x 8.5. Career 60 point guy having a monster contract year and cashes in. This is the beginning of the end for Lou I suspect. Wheeler from the Athletic ranks the Isles’ prospect pool at 32nd after the Horvat acquisition. I like the add in Horvat, but it’s not enough to win them a championship IMO.

Edit. Corrected AAV.

[folatre]

According to CapFriendly, it is $8.5 x 8. I was close to 100 percent sure that Lamoriello basically had a contract drawn up in the desk drawer, but man that is too rich and too long for a 28 year old who never even came close to being a point per game player until this season.

[Willie Dog]

As long as horvat helps keep the panthers out of the playoffs then I'm happy

[seventeen]

Feb 5, 2023 16:53:35 GMT -5 folatre said:

According to CapFriendly, it is $8.5 x 8. I was close to 100 percent sure that Lamoriello basically had a contract drawn up in the desk drawer, but man that is too rich and too long for a 28 year old who never even came close to being a point per game player until this season.

Lou agrees with you. His reply upon being asked about the contract was, "It's too much and too long". He has a sense of humour. Never thought I'd see that.

[folatre]

I think the expectation going into February was that the Islanders were probably going to miss the playoffs and it would be no great sense of failure if they missed. Now, however, I think there is a lot of pressure on them to make it.

Going all in with Horvat (and his contract which I believe will be a killer on the back half) and having a forward group mostly on the back nine of their careers means that the window to do damage in the playoffs is positioned for the short run, not in the medium to long-term strategic horizon.