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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 16, 2023 8:22:26 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Jul 16, 2023 13:33:45 GMT -5
Ouch. I read a ton of articles last year about Granlund's tenure in Nashville and Pittsburgh. Most revolved around his value given his contract. But it was fairly unanimous that he was done. He's 31 and as we know, many forwards topple off a cliff around that 30-33 age range. I'd say Mr. Granlund is well on his way to mimicking Wile E Coyote and we should probably look elsewhere.
Mantha is a more interesting case, but he has missed a number of games the last 5 seasons except for the shortened 56 game Covid year. I also don't think he's a speedster, which goes contrary to the entire persona of our team. We have gotten faster and younger. Mantha is none of those things. If we incur another spate of injuries and the season is lost anyway, this deal would make sense, except that Washington is not really going for it either, so they probably wouldn't give up a first to move Mantha in order to grasp at straws.
The final guy, Tyler Myers, is well known to me given how many Nuck games I watch each year. One has to ask, with the physical tools this guy has (and he is talented in that way), why has he not been a raving success? The answer lies in the mental tools, so he is also not the type of player we are now filling our roster with. The Canucks have been trying to correct the CAP mess that the greatest challenger to Marc Bergevin for loser GM of the year award, Jim Benning, left with the team. Rutherford and Allvin have been doing a lot of stuff, but trading away first round picks is not one of them.
Anyway, that's a long winded way of saying that the intent of the article is good, but the 3 examples they chose are not.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 16, 2023 13:40:16 GMT -5
I can see an Armia for Mantha trade.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 16, 2023 14:15:33 GMT -5
Ouch. I read a ton of articles last year about Granlund's tenure in Nashville and Pittsburgh. Most revolved around his value given his contract. But it was fairly unanimous that he was done. He's 31 and as we know, many forwards topple off a cliff around that 30-33 age range. I'd say Mr. Granlund is well on his way to mimicking Wile E Coyote and we should probably look elsewhere. Mantha is a more interesting case, but he has missed a number of games the last 5 seasons except for the shortened 56 game Covid year. I also don't think he's a speedster, which goes contrary to the entire persona of our team. We have gotten faster and younger. Mantha is none of those things. If we incur another spate of injuries and the season is lost anyway, this deal would make sense, except that Washington is not really going for it either, so they probably wouldn't give up a first to move Mantha in order to grasp at straws. The final guy, Tyler Myers, is well known to me given how many Nuck games I watch each year. One has to ask, with the physical tools this guy has (and he is talented in that way), why has he not been a raving success? The answer lies in the mental tools, so he is also not the type of player we are now filling our roster with. The Canucks have been trying to correct the CAP mess that the greatest challenger to Marc Bergevin for loser GM of the year award, Jim Benning, left with the team. Rutherford and Allvin have been doing a lot of stuff, but trading away first round picks is not one of them. Anyway, that's a long winded way of saying that the intent of the article is good, but the 3 examples they chose are not. I don't want Grandlund, but if we can eat salary for a pick then I'm ok with that... I really don't want any of the 3, but I want the cap space used... And if it costs Geoffey money I don't care... |
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Post by folatre on Jul 16, 2023 16:01:09 GMT -5
Skilly has explained this previously and I cannot match the detail of his explanation. Basically, LTIR usage is complicated by the reality of performance bonuses and roster movements for players who have those bonuses.
Montreal ran into trouble with this issue last season and that is why an approximately $1.1 million in bonus overages carried over from 2022-23 to 2023-24.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 16, 2023 17:29:41 GMT -5
We have no cap space ....
Yes, we can, like any team, be 10% over the cap right now. But we have to be under the cap by the start of the season.
Right now, with a full roster, we are at the cap.
We can't use Price's LTIR as free cash until the season starts, AND, we can't use it, if we are under the cap anyway. So we can't use it to take on other contracts and bury them. LTIR has to be for a replacement player
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Post by jkr on Jul 16, 2023 17:48:48 GMT -5
We have no cap space .... Yes, we can, like any team, be 10% over the cap right now. But we have to be under the cap by the start of the season. Right now, with a full roster, we are at the cap. We can't use Price's LTIR as free cash until the season starts, AND, we can't use it, if we are under the cap anyway. So we can't use it to take on other contracts and bury them. LTIR has to be for a replacement player Does the replacement player have to play the same position? |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 16, 2023 17:52:00 GMT -5
We have no cap space .... Yes, we can, like any team, be 10% over the cap right now. But we have to be under the cap by the start of the season. Right now, with a full roster, we are at the cap. We can't use Price's LTIR as free cash until the season starts, AND, we can't use it, if we are under the cap anyway. So we can't use it to take on other contracts and bury them. LTIR has to be for a replacement player Does the replacement player have to play the same position? I don't think so. It's a big loop hole in my opinion, but in our case, I don't think it matters. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 16, 2023 18:05:58 GMT -5
We have no cap space .... Yes, we can, like any team, be 10% over the cap right now. But we have to be under the cap by the start of the season. Right now, with a full roster, we are at the cap. We can't use Price's LTIR as free cash until the season starts, AND, we can't use it, if we are under the cap anyway. So we can't use it to take on other contracts and bury them. LTIR has to be for a replacement player With Newhook signed we are now $3,509,166 over the cap... If Armia or Hoffman get assigned to laval I don't think they count against the cap... |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 16, 2023 18:10:04 GMT -5
ROSTER & BURIED CAP HIT $83,255,833
DEAD CAP HIT $2,583,333 Eddy & Alzner
CARRYOVER BONUS OVERAGES $1,170,000 from last year
PROJECTED CAP HIT $87,009,166
SALARY CAP $83,500,000
PROJECTED CAP SPACE -$3,509,166
CURRENT CAP SPACE $0
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Post by Skilly on Jul 16, 2023 18:16:56 GMT -5
So let's look at our line-up as of today, in regards to cap space | Forwards |
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| | Caufield (7.850) | Suzuki (7.875) | Newhook (2.9) | 18.625 | | Slafkovskÿ (0.950) | Monahan (1.985) | Dach (3.3625) | 6.2975 | | Anderson (5.5) | Dvorak (4.45) | Gallagher (6.5) | 16.45 | | Hoffman (4.5) | Evans (1.7) | Armia (3.4) | 9.6 | | Defense |
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| | Guhle (0.863) | Savard (3.5) |
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| | Matheson (4.875) | Xhekaj (0.828) |
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| | Harris (1.4) | Barron (0.925) |
| 12.891 | | Extras |
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| | Kovacevic (0.766) | RHP (1.1) |
| 1.866 | | Goalies |
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| | Monty (1.0) | Allen (3.85) |
| 4.85 | | Buyouts |
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| | Alzner (0.833) | Edmundson (1.75) |
| 2.583 | | Bonuses |
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| 1.17 |
so, all of that Equals $74.3325 million. the cap is $83.5 million .... BUT , we have to include Carey Price. Since we currently do not need to replace Price his LTIR overage is only 74.3325 + 10.5 - 83.5 = 1.3325 million sure we can add a 7 million player right now to stay under the 10% rule, but then we need to shed 8.35 million before the start of the season. when the season starts, we will have a team UNDER THE CAP, so I don't see how we can add a big name player, if say we lose Kirby Dach to injury. Then we could only add Kirby Dach's cap hit + whatever we are over due to Price ... currently $1.3325 million |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 16, 2023 18:22:38 GMT -5
We have no cap space .... Yes, we can, like any team, be 10% over the cap right now. But we have to be under the cap by the start of the season. Right now, with a full roster, we are at the cap. We can't use Price's LTIR as free cash until the season starts, AND, we can't use it, if we are under the cap anyway. So we can't use it to take on other contracts and bury them. LTIR has to be for a replacement player With Newhook signed we are now $3,509,166 over the cap... If Armia or Hoffman get assigned to laval I don't think they count against the cap... Willie that 3.509 includes 15 forwards 8 defense 3 goalies 2 buyouts And our bonus overages from last year When the season starts, only 13 forwards, 7 defense, 2 goalies, 2 buyouts and the overages will count. So we will be easily UNDER the cap. About 10.5 million under in fact But you can't use Price as an LTIR if you have the cap space ....that's why cap friendly shows projected LTIR used as ZERO |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 16, 2023 18:28:59 GMT -5
We have no cap space .... Yes, we can, like any team, be 10% over the cap right now. But we have to be under the cap by the start of the season. Right now, with a full roster, we are at the cap. We can't use Price's LTIR as free cash until the season starts, AND, we can't use it, if we are under the cap anyway. So we can't use it to take on other contracts and bury them. LTIR has to be for a replacement player With Newhook signed we are now $3,509,166 over the cap... If Armia or Hoffman get assigned to laval I don't think they count against the cap... If they are assigned to Laval, they will count about 2 million towards the cap ... but then you add Pezetta and Pitlick (1.9 million) ... So the 8.9 million for Hoffman and Armia becomes about 3.9 million.... Now we are even further under the cap about 15.5 million .... we'd have to add Prices contract because we have the room, and could only add a 5 million dollar player |
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Post by PTH on Jul 19, 2023 13:39:30 GMT -5
We have no cap space .... Yes, we can, like any team, be 10% over the cap right now. But we have to be under the cap by the start of the season. Right now, with a full roster, we are at the cap. We can't use Price's LTIR as free cash until the season starts, AND, we can't use it, if we are under the cap anyway. So we can't use it to take on other contracts and bury them. LTIR has to be for a replacement player I'm not sure that's how it works. We could have Price on LTIR, and use that space from now on. The downside is that using LTIR it means no cap room accrued, and bonuses get pushed to next season. I wonder if Hughes' strategy is to try and stay so far below the cap we can have Price on regular IR, make sure bonuses are paid this season, and then perhaps put Price on LTIR halfway through the season when he takes on a bad deal when everyone is cap-strapped halfway through the season, and this is blocking deals. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 20, 2023 7:45:52 GMT -5
We have no cap space .... Yes, we can, like any team, be 10% over the cap right now. But we have to be under the cap by the start of the season. Right now, with a full roster, we are at the cap. We can't use Price's LTIR as free cash until the season starts, AND, we can't use it, if we are under the cap anyway. So we can't use it to take on other contracts and bury them. LTIR has to be for a replacement player I'm not sure that's how it works. We could have Price on LTIR, and use that space from now on. The downside is that using LTIR it means no cap room accrued, and bonuses get pushed to next season. I wonder if Hughes' strategy is to try and stay so far below the cap we can have Price on regular IR, make sure bonuses are paid this season, and then perhaps put Price on LTIR halfway through the season when he takes on a bad deal when everyone is cap-strapped halfway through the season, and this is blocking deals. We don’t have 10.5 bonus money. You just don’t add LTIR Right now we are allowed to be at 10% over the cap. But at the start of the season every team has to be at the 83.5 cap. They can then use LTIR, if needed to get them to the cap. Right now, we don’t need LTIR, so we can’t use it as bonus money. We’d need to make a deal that pushes us over the cap. Right now we can only add a 4.5 M player (that 10% rule). But then we’d need to shed 8.35 at the start of the season. Sure we could use Price’s LTIR then, but that’s it. That would be our roster. Since we currently have a full roster AND can easily keep the roster 10.5 million below the cap, I don’t see us making any moves. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 20, 2023 7:51:30 GMT -5
What is LTIR?
When a player has an injury of which they are expected to miss a minimum of 10 NHL games and 24 days in the NHL season, the team can place them on long term injured reserve (LTIR). LTIR can be used to exceed the salary cap. LTIR is a very complicated aspect of the NHL operations and the vast majority of details are not specified in the CBA.
When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did. It also does not provide the club with additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates above the salary cap. Instead, LTIR provides relief if the club's averaged club salary, or payroll, begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of relief that the club receives is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. There are three equations that are used to determine the LTIR relief, the first, the basic equation, can be used during the season and during the off-season. The second, the training-camp equation, can be used on the final day of the off-season in preparation for the first day of the season. The third formula is used when the team already has a player on LTIR.
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Post by PTH on Jul 20, 2023 10:14:38 GMT -5
What is LTIR? When a player has an injury of which they are expected to miss a minimum of 10 NHL games and 24 days in the NHL season, the team can place them on long term injured reserve (LTIR). LTIR can be used to exceed the salary cap. LTIR is a very complicated aspect of the NHL operations and the vast majority of details are not specified in the CBA. When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did. It also does not provide the club with additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates above the salary cap. Instead, LTIR provides relief if the club's averaged club salary, or payroll, begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of relief that the club receives is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. There are three equations that are used to determine the LTIR relief, the first, the basic equation, can be used during the season and during the off-season. The second, the training-camp equation, can be used on the final day of the off-season in preparation for the first day of the season. The third formula is used when the team already has a player on LTIR. I wonder if the plan isn't just to put Price on LTIR after 25 games once cap space has been banked so as to pay bonuses this season... I'd read a Hughes priority was to avoid bumping bonuses to next season, so that we'd have max cap flexibility just as we wanted to become vaguely competitive again |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 20, 2023 10:22:18 GMT -5
What is LTIR? When a player has an injury of which they are expected to miss a minimum of 10 NHL games and 24 days in the NHL season, the team can place them on long term injured reserve (LTIR). LTIR can be used to exceed the salary cap. LTIR is a very complicated aspect of the NHL operations and the vast majority of details are not specified in the CBA. When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did. It also does not provide the club with additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates above the salary cap. Instead, LTIR provides relief if the club's averaged club salary, or payroll, begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of relief that the club receives is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. There are three equations that are used to determine the LTIR relief, the first, the basic equation, can be used during the season and during the off-season. The second, the training-camp equation, can be used on the final day of the off-season in preparation for the first day of the season. The third formula is used when the team already has a player on LTIR. I wonder if the plan isn't just to put Price on LTIR after 25 games once cap space has been banked so as to pay bonuses this season... I'd read a Hughes priority was to avoid bumping bonuses to next season, so that we'd have max cap flexibility just as we wanted to become vaguely competitive again Interesting, I remember Hughes saying that... |
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