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Post by Cranky on Sept 5, 2023 15:49:41 GMT -5
It will be interesting how much of a heavy game we will want to play. With Hutson and CC in the lineup, i don't think we want to start WW3 on ice.
For their own survival, the other team wont chase X and X junior (if he makes it) or Ghule. They will retaliate on our small guys.
I know this will be an unpopular opinion but if i was given a choice of having a big, tough 30 goal scorer vs soft 40 one, I'd pick the big guy.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 6, 2023 8:29:13 GMT -5
It will be interesting how much of a heavy game we will want to play. With Hutson and CC in the lineup, i don't think we want to start WW3 on ice. For their own survival, the other team wont chase X and X junior (if he makes it) or Ghule. They will retaliate on our small guys. I know this will be an unpopular opinion but if i was given a choice of having a big, tough 30 goal scorer vs soft 40 one, I'd pick the big guy. I somewhat agree, but we’ve made a lot of mistakes in the past trying to draft size/toughness over skill Terry Ryan Jason Ward Andrei Kostitsyn Eric Chouinard Matt Higgins Alexander Perezhogin Ryan Poehling Even Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk weren’t small I agree it has to be size WITH skill … |
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Post by Polarice on Sept 6, 2023 13:11:25 GMT -5
It will be interesting how much of a heavy game we will want to play. With Hutson and CC in the lineup, i don't think we want to start WW3 on ice. For their own survival, the other team wont chase X and X junior (if he makes it) or Ghule. They will retaliate on our small guys. I know this will be an unpopular opinion but if i was given a choice of having a big, tough 30 goal scorer vs soft 40 one, I'd pick the big guy. I somewhat agree, but we’ve made a lot of mistakes in the past trying to draft size/toughness over skill Terry Ryan Jason Ward Andrei Kostitsyn Eric Chouinard Matt Higgins Alexander Perezhogin Ryan Poehling Even Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk weren’t small I agree it has to be size WITH skill … Wasn't he the one that ended Primeau's career? |
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Post by folatre on Sept 6, 2023 15:52:15 GMT -5
I would say skill players like Caufield and Hutson will benefit from having size and snarl on the Habs roster. Guys like Xhekaj, Pezzetta, Anderson, and Little Xhekaj are not offering a brand of physicality predicated on nailing opponents with cheap shots. I think it is the greasy dudes (e.g. Goudas, the Tkachuks, Marchand, Doughty, Hartman, etc.) around the league who cross the line and thereby sometimes put their own teammates at risk for retaliation.
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Post by PTH on Sept 6, 2023 16:29:39 GMT -5
It will be interesting how much of a heavy game we will want to play. With Hutson and CC in the lineup, i don't think we want to start WW3 on ice. For their own survival, the other team wont chase X and X junior (if he makes it) or Ghule. They will retaliate on our small guys. I know this will be an unpopular opinion but if i was given a choice of having a big, tough 30 goal scorer vs soft 40 one, I'd pick the big guy. I somewhat agree, but we’ve made a lot of mistakes in the past trying to draft size/toughness over skill Terry Ryan Jason Ward Andrei Kostitsyn Eric Chouinard Matt Higgins Alexander Perezhogin Ryan Poehling Even Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk weren’t small I agree it has to be size WITH skill … Weird choice of examples... Brad Brown and his ilk would've been more relevant that highly skilled (but soft) Chouinard or Perezhogin... and Kostitsyn wasn't a high-end player, but he wasn't that far off. |
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Post by PTH on Sept 6, 2023 16:33:14 GMT -5
AHL "vets" should be happy they have a job, never mind get priority. Laval only reason to exist is to train players for the NHL. If the coaches don't understand that then they shouldn't be there. If they think that they are there to "win" by playing vets...bye. It's like some of my male employees who didn't want to teach woman on CNC in our slow times. I gave them a choice... For sure, the AHL guys know the team exists largely to give kids a chance to develop. But the kids have to be at least somewhat up to snuff.... if a veteran offensive D sees a terrible young player squander chance after chance after chance on the PP, you can be the room won't have a positive, constructive vibe. |
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Post by seventeen on Sept 6, 2023 17:03:02 GMT -5
Wanting to add some perspective re WiFi Jr. He’s young and needs to improve his OHL scoring a LOT to contend for an NHL job anywhere. I’m not putting it past him because you don’t doubt a Xhekaj's determination. It won’t be an easy road because few 4th round picks (15%) even play 100 games in the NHL. His toughness may not come into play for the Habs for another 5 years, if ever. I sure hope he makes it. That’s a brother act I’d love to see.
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Post by IamCanadiens on Sept 6, 2023 21:02:46 GMT -5
I somewhat agree, but we’ve made a lot of mistakes in the past trying to draft size/toughness over skill Terry Ryan Jason Ward Andrei Kostitsyn Eric Chouinard Matt Higgins Alexander Perezhogin Ryan Poehling Even Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk weren’t small I agree it has to be size WITH skill … McCarron |
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Post by Cranky on Sept 6, 2023 23:01:24 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder about "professional" scouts.
I saw Jason Ward 5 times up close over two seasons in Hamilton. He was a terrible skater. Choppy stride, slow speed, not very maneuverable. About the only thing he did well was get in the crease and stand up.
When they drafted him he was seen as "potential" power forward. Sure, in the AHL. He didn't have NHL speed so how did they think he would get there? UBER?
Marian Hossa was on the board when they picked Ward. Vastly different player and not exactly a wallflower when it came to toughness, yet they picked Ward.
I really wonder if scouts don't give themselves blinders. They see the guy, they like him and then like all humans, they develop favoritism for "their" guy. "Sure he isn't a great skater, but did you see how he fought for the puck and scored? We'll work on his skating". Yeah, sure you will.
Komisarek was another case of a junior player with known issues about vision and decision making, yet selected anyway on the basis of size and a prayer that he will "learn" on the job.
They really, really need to get independent scouting from third parties. Scouts that won't share notes with in-house scouts. Scouts who is going to question the in-house reports and not worry about in-house politics.
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Post by folatre on Sept 8, 2023 9:36:09 GMT -5
Jeje, your description of Jason Ward’s skating is like looking in the mirror for me.
Yeah, there are no guarantees with prospect development. Sometimes kids get hurt at a critical juncture of their development. Other times kids begin to struggle when their new peers are as big, fast, and skilled as they are. And relatedly, the question of adaptation is complicated for a lot of kids – how to go from being ‘The Guy’ putting up points to being a safe, defensive-oriented grinder.
The good news for Habs fans pulling for Little Xhekaj is that he is not a prima donna kid used to star treatment. Adapting to an ‘all guts very little glory’ type role on a team will not be a problem. The only real issue is improving his skating, in particular the initial acceleration.
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Post by Skilly on Sept 8, 2023 11:25:47 GMT -5
I somewhat agree, but we’ve made a lot of mistakes in the past trying to draft size/toughness over skill Terry Ryan Jason Ward Andrei Kostitsyn Eric Chouinard Matt Higgins Alexander Perezhogin Ryan Poehling Even Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk weren’t small I agree it has to be size WITH skill … Weird choice of examples... Brad Brown and his ilk would've been more relevant that highly skilled (but soft) Chouinard or Perezhogin... and Kostitsyn wasn't a high-end player, but he wasn't that far off. I picked players selected in the first round with size, and perceived skill, that never panned out because the skill portion was not that good to be selected as high as they were It wasn’t an all encompassing list, just players (most from memory) that I remember disappointing me |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 8, 2023 11:38:14 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder about "professional" scouts. I saw Jason Ward 5 times up close over two seasons in Hamilton. He was a terrible skater. Choppy stride, slow speed, not very maneuverable. About the only thing he did well was get in the crease and stand up. When they drafted him he was seen as "potential" power forward. Sure, in the AHL. He didn't have NHL speed so how did they think he would get there? UBER? Marian Hossa was on the board when they picked Ward. Vastly different player and not exactly a wallflower when it came to toughness, yet they picked Ward. I really wonder if scouts don't give themselves blinders. They see the guy, they like him and then like all humans, they develop favoritism for "their" guy. "Sure he isn't a great skater, but did you see how he fought for the puck and scored? We'll work on his skating". Yeah, sure you will. Komisarek was another case of a junior player with known issues about vision and decision making, yet selected anyway on the basis of size and a prayer that he will "learn" on the job. They really, really need to get independent scouting from third parties. Scouts that won't share notes with in-house scouts. Scouts who is going to question the in-house reports and not worry about in-house politics. The 1995-1998 stretch of drafting was likely the worst in the teams history 1995- Terry Ryan. (Jerome Iginla 3 picks later) 1996 - Matt Higgins (Daniel Briere 6 picks later) 1997 - Jason Ward (Marián Hossa 1 pick later) 1998 - Eric Chouinard (Simone Gagne 6 picks later) That’s 2 superstars and 2 highly talented local kids. That core could have done some damage! |
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Post by jkr on Sept 8, 2023 16:02:37 GMT -5
I somewhat agree, but we’ve made a lot of mistakes in the past trying to draft size/toughness over skill Terry Ryan Jason Ward Andrei Kostitsyn Eric Chouinard Matt Higgins Alexander Perezhogin Ryan Poehling Even Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk weren’t small I agree it has to be size WITH skill … Wasn't he the one that ended Primeau's career? I believe his hit was the final blow for Prineau but there was a lot damage done before then. |
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Post by Cranky on Sept 8, 2023 17:27:41 GMT -5
Of all the dumbest picks one could make, how did they pick Jason Ward ahead of Marion Hossa?
The two are miles apart in talent yet we pick the worse one.
Did anyone get fired over that?
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Post by seventeen on Sept 8, 2023 22:41:51 GMT -5
In fairness, at the time no one knew how either guy would turn out. The lesson, later, would be to ask why they missed it. No scouts in Czechoslovakia? A scout there but he was being paid by Ottawa to send in scam reports?
Post mortems are not exciting but necessary.
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Post by PTH on Sept 10, 2023 18:12:50 GMT -5
Of all the dumbest picks one could make, how did they pick Jason Ward ahead of Marion Hossa? The two are miles apart in talent yet we pick the worse one. Did anyone get fired over that? Well, there were multiple reports of Hossa being soft, turning away from hits, giving up on plays to avoid hits, etc. Some players just improve after draft day... |
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Post by seventeen on Sept 11, 2023 13:21:12 GMT -5
Or they can barely develop after draft day (Zadina). Anyone remember the angst when KK was taken instead of Zadina. KK's a big kid. He's not finished developing yet. This year should be an interesting one for him.
Good points about Hossa, PTH. I recall some of those concerns and they're not usually correctable ones. Makes you wonder how that report(s) became facts. There could be legitimate reasons for him avoiding hits at that time. Perhaps he was nursing an injury and didn't want to make it worse.
But by the time he fell to #12, he was probably worth the risk. There's a ton of luck involved with some drafts. One kid develops a reputation (like all of us, scouts can see what they want to) or has some visible issue (like size or skating) and it was blown up excessively (Hossa, Caufield) and then it doesn't end up mattering and the team benefits enormously. I bet a lot of draft 'steals' fall into that category.
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