|
|
Post by folatre on Aug 27, 2023 19:38:56 GMT -5
Cranky got me thinking about toughness in another thread.
For Montreal's management, what does toughness entail and do they believe the current and near-term projected rosters have enough of it? I am not sure because I cannot say that I recall Gorton or Hughes talking specifically about this issue. I know I heard Hughes say more than once the Habs need speed and size, and of course character. It is a copy-cat league and recent Cup winners suggest size and toughness matter, so I am sure management is not ignoring it.
For me toughness is a combination of things:
It is clearly about physicality. This is manifested constantly over 60 minutes -- finishing checks, making guys pay a price in tough areas, winning puck battles, going into greasy areas to stress defenses and hopefully score goals, etc.
It is also deterrence, which means making opponents leery about taking liberties against the Habs best players.
Sometimes it comes down to fighting when guys on the other team cross the line or clown on you in blowout.
And last but certainly not least it is attitude, which is about sticking together and consistently demonstrating that pack mentality.
What do think, boys? Are the Habs in good shape as they seek to return to prominence?
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 27, 2023 21:26:40 GMT -5
Thank God it's team toughness and not something kinky...
I mentioned in the other thread that with X, Mailman, Anderson, we got the best fighter and two more in the top 20. X is north of 240, Mail is 220 plus and Anderson is just a bit lighter. Then there is the willing pest in Pez (I love that name). He can't take on heavyweights, but he's willing.
As for team wide toughness, Guhle, Dach have it but I'm not sure we have willing tough guys. CC shouldn't get involved unless it's ankle biting, Suzuki better not. Ghally has it but shouldn't. The rest will join in but I don't see a whole lot of bad dandruff in them.
Overall, we're good. X changed the channel and I think Mailman will deliver too. He has too because if Guhle and Mail dish it, there will be blow back.
Anywho...we were the 5th highest penalty minutes last year and I see that improving if we insert more sandpaper.
|
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 27, 2023 23:23:49 GMT -5
Thank God it's team toughness and not something kinky... I mentioned in the other thread that with X, Mailman, Anderson, we got the best fighter and two more in the top 20. X is north of 240, Mail is 220 plus and Anderson is just a bit lighter. Then there is the willing pest in Pez (I love that name). He can't take on heavyweights, but he's willing. As for team wide toughness, Guhle, Dach have it but I'm not sure we have willing tough guys. CC shouldn't get involved unless it's ankle biting, Suzuki better not. Ghally has it but shouldn't. The rest will join in but I don't see a whole lot of bad dandruff in them. Overall, we're good. X changed the channel and I think Mailman will deliver too. He has too because if Guhle and Mail dish it, there will be blow back. Anywho...we were the 5th highest penalty minutes last year and I see that improving if we insert more sandpaper. Teams leading in toughnesses usually don’t lead in penalties. Weaker players tend to be retaliating and using sticks against opponents whereas stronger players hit harder and still clean. Clearing the crease without resorting to stick work that gets called. We don’t have a single player in the top ten in the league at any position. We get another chance at a good draft and don’t get what we need. |
|
|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Aug 28, 2023 6:56:07 GMT -5
To me, it means not being pushed around, knocked off the puck and being able to dictate the play. If you are always getting knocked off the puck or rushing your play, then you don't have enough of it. Personally, I wouldn't mind 1 more top 6 player with grit. Someone like Anderson but has more scoring touch.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Aug 28, 2023 8:30:35 GMT -5
Based on the players they are targeting I think HuGo values size as a from of toughness. They have a specific profile of player they have targeted with their 1st pick - size over skill. I think they want to beef up the team and hope the toughness follows.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Aug 28, 2023 17:34:44 GMT -5
There are indeed some young guys on the roster contributing size and/or toughness. And there are certainly some kids in the pipeline who profile to add more.
However, I must say that I think the Habs are not quite where I would want them to be for 2023-24. I know he was often injured last season, but for me subtracting Edmundson without adding any size or snarl is not ideal. Edmundson is a behemoth and a feared dude on the ice. I remember a game in April at Toronto, some Leaf (Bunting, Acciari, whoever) was stirring shet after a whistle and Edmundson got frickin pissed. Simmonds was on the ice and decided not to try his luck with Eddie.
The way I see it you need two layers of big mean dudes in the lineup. The top layer is guys able and willing to drop the gloves. The Habs have two edgy guys who answer the call – Xhekaj and Pezzetta. The layer underneath the justicieros is basically guys who also help police the ice but do not fight often because the club cannot afford them to get injured or miss long stretches of games sitting in the box or serving game misconducts. Before I would have said Montreal had two guys – Anderson and Edmundson -- who helped fill that role. Now there is only one and I am just not sure if a kid like Guhle can or should step up because the last thing the organization needs is for him to miss major portions of another season.
And even just counting up the guys who bring general physicality night in night out, I would say more are needed, in particular among the forwards. Are there wingers and centres in the prospect pipeline who play with fire and jam? I know we’ve got some big, physical blueliners on the way in the not so distant future.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Aug 28, 2023 18:00:56 GMT -5
To me it's always been about not being afraid to go where others fear to tread. You can't be afraid. If everyone on your team has that attitude (or most) you'll never be intimidated, because you keep getting up off the canvas. Nothing frustrates an opponent more than guys who won't give up.
That doesn't mean you don't need a guy like Xhekaj. If Arber's on your team, those guys who give up more easily than others, will stretch that line out further. WiFi adds courage to some of the players who need it. So it's a balancing act because it's rare to find Larry Robinsons who combine talent and toughness. Too often the tough guys don't have enough talent, which isn't the case with Arber, or even Pezzetta (on the 4th line).
I'm curious to see how Xavier Simoneau does in training camp. He's on the small side physically, at 5' 7", 175 lbs, but he's one of those buzz saws that fans love.
The positives are that
1) he gets under opponent's skin
2) he never gives up
3) he wasn't a bad scorer in juniour, which is a necessary indicator for making the NHL
Simoneau could be an excellent 4th line centre after the dust settles on player moves. NWT could probably tell you more about him. I haven't seen him play, just read the occasional report on him. He's not big, so to succeed he needs to be a decent skater and have some top notch skills in other areas. How's his hockey IQ? Can he be a good passer at the NHL level?
One thing you can never question is his toughness. 81 PIM in 62 games last year. Only Riley McKay (who?) had more (in 22 games) and Riley is the definition of a fighter and not enough talent. I have no idea if there's enough talent there, but he's a guy I'm going to watch
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Aug 28, 2023 18:13:53 GMT -5
And even just counting up the guys who bring general physicality night in night out, I would say more are needed, in particular among the forwards. Are there wingers and centres in the prospect pipeline who play with fire and jam? I know we’ve got some big, physical blueliners on the way in the not so distant future. Good point, folatre. Of the forward prospects, there aren't many who can drop the gloves and are likely to make the team. Luke Tuch had his share of penalty minutes in the USHL. Not much in college, but who is going to fight when players wear a mask and then get ejected? The other guy (and we can chuckle here) is Florian Xhekaj. There's almost no chance he makes the team because you have to score a bit in the CHL to give any indication you can play. I'm just not sure I'd short change the Xhekaj family. Outside of those unlikely two, however, everyone else is a skill guy. |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Aug 28, 2023 19:25:17 GMT -5
To me it's always been about not being afraid to go where others fear to tread. You can't be afraid. If everyone on your team has that attitude (or most) you'll never be intimidated, because you keep getting up off the canvas. Nothing frustrates an opponent more than guys who won't give up. That doesn't mean you don't need a guy like Xhekaj. If Arber's on your team, those guys who give up more easily than others, will stretch that line out further. WiFi adds courage to some of the players who need it. So it's a balancing act because it's rare to find Larry Robinsons who combine talent and toughness. Too often the tough guys don't have enough talent, which isn't the case with Arber, or even Pezzetta (on the 4th line). I'm curious to see how Xavier Simoneau does in training camp. He's on the small side physically, at 5' 7", 175 lbs, but he's one of those buzz saws that fans love. The positives are that 1) he gets under opponent's skin 2) he never gives up 3) he wasn't a bad scorer in juniour, which is a necessary indicator for making the NHL Simoneau could be an excellent 4th line centre after the dust settles on player moves. NWT could probably tell you more about him. I haven't seen him play, just read the occasional report on him. He's not big, so to succeed he needs to be a decent skater and have some top notch skills in other areas. How's his hockey IQ? Can he be a good passer at the NHL level? One thing you can never question is his toughness. 81 PIM in 62 games last year. Only Riley McKay (who?) had more (in 22 games) and Riley is the definition of a fighter and not enough talent. I have no idea if there's enough talent there, but he's a guy I'm going to watch |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 28, 2023 19:42:17 GMT -5
Mailman will replace Edmy. Edmy is 2 inches taller but the same weight. Guhle is hugger, not a fighter. Ok, maybe not a hugger, he's tough but he's not the guy we want dropping them with the Tkachuckheads. Let X tune then up. Mantha is available for a bag of pucks, he's a heavyweight but lazy as all heck. If we can grow a 4th line with sandpaper, that would be great but i don't want to waste space on a knuckle dragger when we already have enough tough guys. www.hockeyfights.com/players/n30862 |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Aug 28, 2023 20:49:16 GMT -5
For sure, in today's NHL, guys have to be able to play hockey and keep up with the pace of a really fast game on the ice. So that is non-negotiable.
Cranky, I agree that Mailloux as he matures to age 23-24 could be a guy that NHLers think twice about messing around with. But thus far, I see most of his fights in the OHL as instances where he just uses his size to pick up rivals and WWF slam (or is WWE these days?) them to the ice.
I see the fourth line being 'harder' in 2024-25 when hopefully Evans and Armia are gone because then a fiery rookie like Beck gets in there and the right wing slot could be a guy (probably signed from outside the organization) willing to play a heavier/nastier brand of hockey.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 28, 2023 23:42:07 GMT -5
For sure, in today's NHL, guys have to be able to play hockey and keep up with the pace of a really fast game on the ice. So that is non-negotiable. Cranky, I agree that Mailloux as he matures to age 23-24 could be a guy that NHLers think twice about messing around with. But thus far, I see most of his fights in the OHL as instances where he just uses his size to pick up rivals and WWF slam (or is WWE these days?) them to the ice.I see the fourth line being 'harder' in 2024-25 when hopefully Evans and Armia are gone because then a fiery rookie like Beck gets in there and the right wing slot could be a guy (probably signed from outside the organization) willing to play a heavier/nastier brand of hockey. Nah, he can chuck them but he needs to protect that chin. Fighting on ice is always half wrestling and half chucking them. Tie up the other guy until you can see an opening. |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Aug 29, 2023 9:08:26 GMT -5
For sure, in today's NHL, guys have to be able to play hockey and keep up with the pace of a really fast game on the ice. So that is non-negotiable. Cranky, I agree that Mailloux as he matures to age 23-24 could be a guy that NHLers think twice about messing around with. But thus far, I see most of his fights in the OHL as instances where he just uses his size to pick up rivals and WWF slam (or is WWE these days?) them to the ice.I see the fourth line being 'harder' in 2024-25 when hopefully Evans and Armia are gone because then a fiery rookie like Beck gets in there and the right wing slot could be a guy (probably signed from outside the organization) willing to play a heavier/nastier brand of hockey. Nah, he can chuck them but he needs to protect that chin. Fighting on ice is always half wrestling and half chucking them. Tie up the other guy until you can see an opening. Zito's antics may wash in the ohl... he tries that Saperlipopette in the NHL and he'll get pummeled |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Aug 29, 2023 13:06:47 GMT -5
Players like Zito actually make it worse for his teamates. They can turn the game into chippy and put the non fighters into it.
And of course, because he only has one use, he will get his face handed to him by the heavyweights.
|
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 29, 2023 15:31:36 GMT -5
For sure, in today's NHL, guys have to be able to play hockey and keep up with the pace of a really fast game on the ice. So that is non-negotiable. Cranky, I agree that Mailloux as he matures to age 23-24 could be a guy that NHLers think twice about messing around with. But thus far, I see most of his fights in the OHL as instances where he just uses his size to pick up rivals and WWF slam (or is WWE these days?) them to the ice. I see the fourth line being 'harder' in 2024-25 when hopefully Evans and Armia are gone because then a fiery rookie like Beck gets in there and the right wing slot could be a guy (probably signed from outside the organization) willing to play a heavier/nastier brand of hockey. Mailloux might be a good fighter. I hope he doesn’t take pictures of the guy’s he beats and posts them on the internet. |
|
|
|
Post by frozone on Aug 30, 2023 9:46:19 GMT -5
To me it's always been about not being afraid to go where others fear to tread. You can't be afraid. If everyone on your team has that attitude (or most) you'll never be intimidated, because you keep getting up off the canvas. Nothing frustrates an opponent more than guys who won't give up. That doesn't mean you don't need a guy like Xhekaj. If Arber's on your team, those guys who give up more easily than others, will stretch that line out further. WiFi adds courage to some of the players who need it. So it's a balancing act because it's rare to find Larry Robinsons who combine talent and toughness. Too often the tough guys don't have enough talent, which isn't the case with Arber, or even Pezzetta (on the 4th line). I'm curious to see how Xavier Simoneau does in training camp. He's on the small side physically, at 5' 7", 175 lbs, but he's one of those buzz saws that fans love. The positives are that 1) he gets under opponent's skin 2) he never gives up 3) he wasn't a bad scorer in juniour, which is a necessary indicator for making the NHL Simoneau could be an excellent 4th line centre after the dust settles on player moves. NWT could probably tell you more about him. I haven't seen him play, just read the occasional report on him. He's not big, so to succeed he needs to be a decent skater and have some top notch skills in other areas. How's his hockey IQ? Can he be a good passer at the NHL level? One thing you can never question is his toughness. 81 PIM in 62 games last year. Only Riley McKay (who?) had more (in 22 games) and Riley is the definition of a fighter and not enough talent. I have no idea if there's enough talent there, but he's a guy I'm going to watch I have a similar outlook as seventeen. If I was putting a team together, I would prioritize NOT being pushed around moreso than assembling bullies. And by that, I mean the team needs to have players that will step up to the physical challenge, whatever it is. I'll use Krug as an example... he doesn't have the size nor does he rack up the PIMs or the hits, but he has maybe one of the best modern day examples of not being pushed around. In the playoffs no less... His team got a big boost from that moment and it didn't surprise me at all that St-Louis signed him after playing a series against him. On the other hand, Radko Gudas... he's built like a fire hydrant and he hits like a truck, but I'm not convinced he contributes much to team toughness. His toughness is a bit on the cheap side, and if I were his teammate I would probably shake my head at quite a few of his antics. He'll catch you with your head down but generally doesn't go toe to toe against his opponents. More of an agitator/distraction for the other team, which certainly could have a use in the NHL, but if team toughness is what I'm looking for I would look elsewhere before Gudas. Once your team collectively is at the point where they don't get pushed around, then the next priority is to make life miserable for the opposition. Guys like Weber, Eddy, Wifi... they make the opponent think twice. |
|
|
|
Post by IamCanadiens on Aug 30, 2023 14:21:19 GMT -5
With the way the game is evolving I'm not sold on team toughness. I'd argue that speed and skill has been greatly prioritized over toughness the last few years........ The league frequently uses the current champions as the blueprint for success. Vegas won without being loaded with toughness. Heck, their most skilled defenseman might had been their toughest and dirtiest player in the playoffs. Further, in the regular season I didn't see a nuclear deterrent on the roster or players racking up the PIMs. They stayed out of the box, out of penalty trouble and stayed healthy. Seemed to work for them to lack toughness.
As for Mailloux, I've seen more videos of him absorbing shots to the head than dishing them out. And he even dislocated his shoulder trying to fight once. How'd that toughness help him or his team out? I'll choose skill players that concentrate on skill any day.
However, with all that in mind, this is a developing team so I don't want to see them pushed around, I do like to see the players protected and I do like gritty pain in the arse players like Beck.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Aug 30, 2023 18:55:28 GMT -5
Yeah, Vegas won the Cup and everyone looks to them for modelling. That's not necessarily a good idea, because the next Cup winner may have a much different formula. For example. if Jay Woodcroft decided to play Jack Campbell, who had played well in 2 previous SC games, instead of Stuart Skinner, who was choking at critical times, we might be saying, "Gee, we'd better look for a generational player and a deadly German striker".
With every Cup Champ I bet I could go back on their series wins and find a key moment or two where if the puck had bounced the other way, they would have been eliminated. Remember KK's snipe in OT vs the Leafs? It deflected off (Sandin's?) stick. Campbell had it covered and next thing, the puck changes direction and picks the top corner perfectly. Leafs win that OT game and maybe they end up in the SC finals instead of the Habs.
I like the way HuGo are building the Habs. Maybe we don't have an elite player (which is yet to be determined) but man, do we have a lot of well above average players, if they all progress as we hope. Overwhelm opponents with skill at all positions and add a bit more grit in the process. (also find a great goalie)
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Sept 1, 2023 19:58:50 GMT -5
In the post-Penguins back to back era, five different teams have lifted the Cup. Washington was, overall, a heavy team. The Blues has serious size on the blue line and plenty of no-nonsense grinders up and down the forward lines. Tampa, at times overlooked because of the sublime skill of multiple future HOFers, had a lot size and sandpaper. Colorado gave more credence to the speed and skill model. And this spring Vegas in my estimation won with basically the Blues’ 2019 type roster.
It is impossible to predict the future based on relatively small sample sizes from the recent past. However, it seems size and toughness are taking hold right there in the ingredient list alongside skill and speed. I am certainly not suggesting that management should sacrifice skill or speed. But I do think that one needs to be realistic about how many small players can effectively occupy spots on the NHL roster. For example, I cannot envision how Caufield, Harvey-Pinard, Farrell, and Mesar would logically play in the same Habs lineup. Of course, these are not dilemmas that Hughes needs to immediately sort out because Harvey-Pinard needs to prove his audition with the Habs last season was not an anomaly. And Farrell and Mesar need to prove they can be productive forwards in Laval.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Sept 2, 2023 1:03:35 GMT -5
folatre, Hughes and Gorton have said several times that you can't have too many small players in the line-up if you're to be serious about winning a Cup. Now...how many is too many? Even looking at the 70's Habs, they didn't have a lot of small players. Henri Richard, who had the heart of a lion and Yvon Cournoyer. There were others, of course, but players generally were shorter and lighter back then, so the Smaller guys like Claude Provost was 5'9" 175 lbs. The defensemen were big, though. JC Tremblay was the smallest at 5'11", 170 lbs. Harris, Laperriere, Savard, Carol Vadnais, Noel Picard...all bigger guys. The late 70's we all know about. Lapointe was the shortest at 6', but he was a monster hitter.
Overall, you need size, so you have to pick which small guys will play. I don't see more than 2, so Caufield and Hutson if he makes it. All those other smaller guys will have to be moved for assets. Cold, hard, facts.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Sept 2, 2023 8:22:43 GMT -5
Yeah, inevitably some guys will hit a ceiling as AHL-NHL tweeners and others who do work out will get traded. That is the nature of drafting, development, and roster building.
And I concede that the total number would depend on the attributes of the respective players. Caufield is on the first line so for me there is no place for a little man on the opposite wing. Harvey-Pinard seemingly looked the part with a big rangy centre (Dach) and a freight train winger (Anderson), but until he replicates the success he had in last season's limited audition, I am not sure about him. Though a point can be made that a smaller guy who is gritty may be able to stick around in a bottom six role. For that matter, Gallagher is not big but he is fine as a bottom six right wing; the problem with him is the absurdity of paying him like a highly productive top six forward. I do not want to prejudge Farrell or Mesar, but based on what I have watched they look like skill guys who operate on the perimeter, which means they have no chance to stick as fourth liner types and they had better be quite productive if they plan to consolidate in the middle six.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Sept 2, 2023 13:20:02 GMT -5
Yeah, inevitably some guys will hit a ceiling as AHL-NHL tweeners and others who do work out will get traded. That is the nature of drafting, development, and roster building. And I concede that the total number would depend on the attributes of the respective players. Caufield is on the first line so for me there is no place for a little man on the opposite wing. Harvey-Pinard seemingly looked the part with a big rangy centre (Dach) and a freight train winger (Anderson), but until he replicates the success he had in last season's limited audition, I am not sure about him. Though a point can be made that a smaller guy who is gritty may be able to stick around in a bottom six role. For that matter, Gallagher is not big but he is fine as a bottom six right wing; the problem with him is the absurdity of paying him like a highly productive top six forward. I do not want to prejudge Farrell or Mesar, but based on what I have watched they look like skill guys who operate on the perimeter, which means they have no chance to stick as fourth liner types and they had better be quite productive if they plan to consolidate in the middle six. Those are important points about Farrell or Mesar, but even if we can't use them, developing them into top 6 wingers will make them useful to other teams and therefore, to us as assets. One can also look at it in another way. It's really hard to win a Cup without a smaller, skilled guy. The Pens don't win their 2 last Cups without Kessel. The Knights don't win without Marchessault. Probably, IMO, the most important forward on the Leafs is Marner, If he's the 6', 180' lbs as listed on hockey dB, I'm a Boston fan. Also, these days, anyone under 6' seems to be classed as undersized. All this to ask, can the Habs afford 3 'small' guys with one on defense? |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Sept 2, 2023 17:51:42 GMT -5
Jeje, Marner's listing is generous (to bring it closer to home, how in the world is Jake Evans 6' 190 lbs?). And even if he is that big, Marner wants nothing to do with giving or receiving physical punishment. For a guy with off the charts elite vision and passing, that is not an issue. For the right price, every team in the league would love to have him driving play on their first line and tearing it up on the PP1.
Likewise, if Caufield is giving the Habs 35 goals (hopefully 40+) year in year out, no one is going to complain about the fact that he is never going to bring physicality to the ice. But, yeah, there is room for another bona fide top six small guy, though I am not sure who that player is. And I really have no problem with an additional small guy in the bottom six if he is gritty and adds to the pack mentality.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Sept 3, 2023 1:03:20 GMT -5
I think size can be overrated, because it can be compensated by skill, to a certain extent.
If Farrell turns into Johnny Gaudreau and Mesar turns into Martin Havlat, I'm sure we'll make do with the high-octane offense that would give us.
The issue I see though is that there is a limit to how many mediocre, smallish players a team can have... I remember André Savard acquiring several of smallish 15-20 goal forwards, and that wasn't a good look.
All that being said, I think Caufield's numbers make up for his size, and if Farrell or Mesar want to be top-6 staples, they'll need to reach a higher level of play, in some way, and management will need to surround them with big boys to balance things out. After all, you don't get much of a forecheck if all 3 forwards are 5'10 or less...
I'm not too worried about RHP - he plays bigger than his size, much like Gallagher used to, and he'll always have a role on this team.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Sept 3, 2023 21:34:52 GMT -5
Jeje, Marner's listing is generous (to bring it closer to home, how in the world is Jake Evans 6' 190 lbs?). And even if he is that big, Marner wants nothing to do with giving or receiving physical punishment. For a guy with off the charts elite vision and passing, that is not an issue. For the right price, every team in the league would love to have him driving play on their first line and tearing it up on the PP1. Likewise, if Caufield is giving the Habs 35 goals (hopefully 40+) year in year out, no one is going to complain about the fact that he is never going to bring physicality to the ice. But, yeah, there is room for another bona fide top six small guy, though I am not sure who that player is. And I really have no problem with an additional small guy in the bottom six if he is gritty and adds to the pack mentality. Simoneau might fit the bill |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Sept 4, 2023 20:08:54 GMT -5
Offensively, Simoneau's first AHL season was similar to Harvey-Pinard's. Now, of course, the question is whether Simoneau can up his game the way Harvey-Pinard did in years 2-3. For me he needs to show a similar progression or else he may get stuck in the A.
I am curious how much latitude management is granting Houle to go with his own discretion about which 'Rockets' deserve bigger minutes and better linemates or whether management will gently impose a template whereby the kids who are 'big picture priority' are reserved certain roles.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Sept 4, 2023 21:11:04 GMT -5
Offensively, Simoneau's first AHL season was similar to Harvey-Pinard's. Now, of course, the question is whether Simoneau can up his game the way Harvey-Pinard did in years 2-3. For me he needs to show a similar progression or else he may get stuck in the A. I am curious how much latitude management is granting Houle to go with his own discretion about which 'Rockets' deserve bigger minutes and better linemates or whether management will gently impose a template whereby the kids who are 'big picture priority' are reserved certain roles. I hope the latter... and it's important that HuGo impress upon JF that winning is wonderful but the future players for of the big club must be given time to develop and grow. |
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Sept 4, 2023 21:45:00 GMT -5
I am curious how much latitude management is granting Houle to go with his own discretion about which 'Rockets' deserve bigger minutes and better linemates or whether management will gently impose a template whereby the kids who are 'big picture priority' are reserved certain roles. It's tough since if kid get too much of a priority, the guys in the room will realize it, and the kids become entitled... and the vets become sour. I think most guys in the AHL expect some kids to get some level of favoritism, but it has to stay within bounds... if Mailloux plays like he couldn't hold his own in the ECHL, he shouldn't be getting top minutes in the AHL... |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Sept 4, 2023 23:05:17 GMT -5
AHL "vets" should be happy they have a job, never mind get priority.
Laval only reason to exist is to train players for the NHL. If the coaches don't understand that then they shouldn't be there. If they think that they are there to "win" by playing vets...bye.
It's like some of my male employees who didn't want to teach woman on CNC in our slow times. I gave them a choice...
|
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Sept 5, 2023 14:15:18 GMT -5
It is clearly about physicality. This is manifested constantly over 60 minutes -- finishing checks, making guys pay a price in tough areas, winning puck battles, going into greasy areas to stress defenses and hopefully score goals, etc. It is also deterrence, which means making opponents leery about taking liberties against the Habs best players. Sometimes it comes down to fighting when guys on the other team cross the line or clown on you in blowout. And last but certainly not least it is attitude, which is about sticking together and consistently demonstrating that pack mentality. When I think of team toughness, I think of the physicality of that player. Like you said, a big heavy body, that possess skill, that finishes checks making players pay for skating along the boards, or playing in front of the net. I remember when we had Emelin and Subban playing on the same defensive pairing (which was rare) and at the end of the game one of the coaches said that he had to change their game plan because he didn't want their players dumping and chasing when they were on the ice because they were getting smashed. Also, when I think of team toughness, I think of players durability to play the entire year as well as the playoffs without sustaining serious injuries. |
|
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/6F6VF25GCFF2HFJCOITRJSGNPE.jpg)
