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Post by turnbuckle on Jul 1, 2007 8:42:51 GMT -5
Did a list up with Timmins in the past couple of days for the writeup I'm doing for McKeen's on the Habs in their Pool Yearbook.
Here is Trevor's top 20 prospects:
1/ Price 2/ McDonagh 3/ Chipchura 4/ Pacioretty 5/ Fischer 6/ S Kostitsyn 7/ Maxwell 8/ White 9/ Grabovsky 10 Subban 11 Emelin 12 Halak 13 O'Byrne 14 D'Agostini 15 Carle 16 Valentenko 17 Weber 18 Fortier 19 Lahti 20 Russell
Timmins feels Chippy, Lapierre, Kosty sr., Price and Grabovsky will have "jobs to lose" in training camp. He thinks they all stand a good chance of making the club out of training camp.
He said he's suggested to Bob that Grabovsky might be better suited for the wing as he wouldn't have to be as responsible defensively - not to mention the logjam there will be at center if Briere is signed.
Price - Did it all this year; I don't know what else he could have done. the only thing he needs to work on is taking his conditioning to another level. He's got a good shot of playing with us next year.
Timmins figured Price is already ahead of Halak in the pecking order. He said he's not sure what the club will do with Halak if he loses the battle at training camp.
Halak - I don't know that we've seen the best of him yet. Very competitive, good technique. He absorbs everything, he's like a sponge.
McDonagh - needs to go to Wisconsin this year and prove he can be one of their top dmen. Physically he's about ready. Physically he's about ready. Two years max (at Wisc.). He is stronger than Fischer.
Fischer - he didn't have mono - he had strep throat. He has a bad set of tonsils and will have them removed after our rookie camp. He'll be one of the go-to guys in in Minnesota this year. His strength needs to come along, but he's a very mature young man.
Kostitsyn - Hunter said he wa the best player on London. He's a heck of a player Good on both sides of the puck. He hit Steve Downie with his shoulder one game this year and laid him out. 6-0, 190. size isn't a problem. He's a better skater than his brother.
The club is trying to sign free agents Jerome Samson and Thomas Beauregard to two-year AHL contracts before the rookie camp. Beauregard is closer to being signed - Samson's agent is being more cantankerous. They have invited Mississauga goalie Andrew Loverock to the rookie camp. He should have been drafted.
Chipchura - a spot for him to lose. Bonk won't be back and he's slated to replace Bonk eventually if not now.
Lappy, Chipchura, Grabovsky Kostitsyn and Price will all have jobs to lose at training camp.
Grabovsky - I think he'll be better at the NHL level. think perhaps the club should Give him a shot on the wing, where he doesn't have to be as strong defensively. Needs to learn to keep his head up in the neutral zone. He's 5-10 1/2...but he's solid, he's strong. He's not afraid. And he's a good kid. He was really excited when they won the Calder Cup. He fit in really well considering it was his first season in NA. Has a girlfriend form Hamilton. He'll probably end up on the third or fourth line this season, perhaps on the wing.
Paccioretty - he's along the same lines a McDonagh concerning how close he is, being close physically. Our strength coach says he ranks right up there with the pros in testing. Maybe two years before he's ready.
Perezhogin was really quiet; the players all like Andrei Kosty already, more outgoing than Perezhogin was, players all like him in the room.
Can Perezhogin be traded? Probably too late now - would have been better to trade him last season.
Wyman - He's a big, strong winger. Not scoring like he's capable because of the team he plays on. the coach there is a little different ......had Wyman playing on defence for three weeks last season, and turn around and declared that he was the team's best defenceman.
Emelin - we had a deal in place - over the weekend he got a Russian agent that got him traded to Kazan with no out clause, signed for two years. It's too bad - wanted him over here this year. We'll just have to try to get him over next year now.
Jancevski - probably won't be back
Maxwell - we hope his elbow is all better. A really smart player with speed. The Hab coaches loved him lat year. People misread his "grit". He doesn't have to play physically..are all players in the NHL physical? But he's not afraid - he's a bit of a quiet kid.
He was dumbfounded that White and Maxwell were left off of the Under 20 team, while recent draftees like Gillies and Sutter made the team.. "Gm's in the WHL are shaking their heads. i don't know what they're thinking (at Hockey Canada) I feel bad for the kids (Maxwell and White)."
White - we love White - he's an old-time hockey player. and he almost won the scoring title. He's a hard-nosed, smart hockey player. I expect him to be a dominant player in the WHL this year.
Latendresse - I asked him if he still had his baby fat - he said Lats is getting into pretty good shape. He's training with Scott Livingstone five days a week along with brother Olivier. "He just needed his diet tweaked," said Timmins in regard to him losing some fat. He's 225 - he's a horse that's hard to stop driving to the net.
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Post by bladesofsteel on Jul 1, 2007 9:10:42 GMT -5
Here is Trevor's top 20 prospects: 1/ Price 2/ McDonagh 3/ Chipchura 4/ Pacioretty5/ Fischer 6/ S Kostitsyn 7/ Maxwell 8/ White 9/ Grabovsky 10 Subban 11 Emelin 12 Halak 13 O'Byrne 14 D'Agostini15 Carle 16 Valentenko 17 Weber 18 Fortier 19 Lahti 20 Russell I had a tough time bolding the names that stuck out, as to me, the order of the entire list is perplexing to say the least. Chipchura ahead of Grabovski? Pacioretti already so high without even attending camp? Halak not even in the top 10 despite being the best AHL goalie and almost getting the Habs into the playoffs? Now...farbeit from me to assume to be more knowledgeable than Mr. T, but I'll list a couple of my favourite prospects and why I feel they should be higher: -Grabovski. How is this guy not in the top 3? He was one of the best players in the world juniors' on a weak Belarus team. He had a very successful 1st year in the AHL despite adjusting to the NA game and language. I've always maintained he's got 1st line center potential and I won't deviate from it. -Milroy: showed a great deal of offensive skill in the early part of his season. He was snakebitten in the 2nd half but he's still a gamer and is able to play at both ends of the ice. I just don't get how this guy can be left off completely, same with Ferland. Now I know this list is based on potential, but if that's the case why would Chip be so high?
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Post by turnbuckle on Jul 1, 2007 9:16:38 GMT -5
Huh?
It's not a list of players most NHL ready - that's not how prospect lists are usually compiled.
what this shows is you are severely underrating Chipchura.
i get a feeling you're the type that would rate a Nagy way ahead of a Sammy Pahlsson because he might score a couple more points.
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Post by SchoonerGuy on Jul 1, 2007 9:17:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Turnbuckle! VERY MUCH appreciated!
Habs brass must be awfully high on Subban. I was surprised to see him ranked ahead of Emelin, Carle, Valentenko and O'Byrne.
Have you heard anything about A.Kostitsyn's groin tear? Maybe no news is good news but it was serious enough to keep him out of the entire Calder Cup playoffs. Hopefully offseason rest makes it a non-issue.
I also noticed Ferland isn't on the list and wasn't mentioned as a prospect with a job to lose. In my mind, I sort of thought he could have a 4th line job to lose as he would have to clear waiver in order for us to call him up during the season. Also, he addresses our size/softness label.
Also, I don't think I can agree that Price has a job to lose. Gainey has stated before that Price will have to be a starting goalie if he is to make the NHL this season as he wants Price to play regularly. I can see Price being called up during the season but I'd be very surprised if he starts the season with the Habs.
Thanks again!
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Post by turnbuckle on Jul 1, 2007 9:21:25 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Turnbuckle! VERY MUCH appreciated! Habs brass must be awfully high on Subban. I was surprised to see him ranked ahead of Emelin, Carle, Valentenko and O'Byrne. Have you heard anything about A.Kostitsyn's groin tear? Maybe no news is good news but it was serious enough to keep him out of the entire Calder Cup playoffs. Hopefully offseason rest makes it a non-issue. I also noticed Ferland isn't on the list and wasn't mentioned as a prospect with a job to lose. In my mind, I sort of thought he could have a 4th line job to lose as he would have to clear waiver in order for us to call him up during the season. Also, he addresses our size/softness label. Also, I don't think I can agree that Price has a job to lose. Gainey has stated before that Price will have to be a starting goalie if he is to make the NHL this season as he wants Price to play regularly. I can see Price being called up during the season but I'd be very surprised if he starts the season with the Habs. Thanks again! Gainey said he'll have to be the starting goalie? do you have that quote? Even if he did there's a good chance Price is the top goalie in Mtl this season. He is that good. We talked a fair bit about Ferland - Trevor doesn't think his skating is good enough. Likes his character and grit, but the speed isn't there to be effective at the next level.
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Post by SchoonerGuy on Jul 1, 2007 9:22:08 GMT -5
Here is Trevor's top 20 prospects: 1/ Price 2/ McDonagh 3/ Chipchura 4/ Pacioretty5/ Fischer 6/ S Kostitsyn 7/ Maxwell 8/ White 9/ Grabovsky 10 Subban 11 Emelin 12 Halak 13 O'Byrne 14 D'Agostini15 Carle 16 Valentenko 17 Weber 18 Fortier 19 Lahti 20 Russell I had a tough time bolding the names that stuck out, as to me, the order of the entire list is perplexing to say the least. Chipchura ahead of Grabovski? Pacioretti already so high without even attending camp? Halak not even in the top 10 despite being the best AHL goalie and almost getting the Habs into the playoffs? Now...farbeit from me to assume to be more knowledgeable than Mr. T, but I'll list a couple of my favourite prospects and why I feel they should be higher: -Grabovski. How is this guy not in the top 3? He was one of the best players in the world juniors' on a weak Belarus team. He had a very successful 1st year in the AHL despite adjusting to the NA game and language. I've always maintained he's got 1st line center potential and I won't deviate from it. -Milroy: showed a great deal of offensive skill in the early part of his season. He was snakebitten in the 2nd half but he's still a gamer and is able to play at both ends of the ice. I just don't get how this guy can be left off completely, same with Ferland. Now I know this list is based on potential, but if that's the case why would Chip be so high? Bladesofsteel, I think Chipchura is hands down a better prospect than Grabovsky. Not only was Chips more of a key player in AHL Playoffs, but Chips also is a leader who does all the little things well and simply brings a lot more to the table than Grabovsky. In a couple of years, Chips will be leading our forwards in ice-time and could be our next Captain.
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Post by turnbuckle on Jul 1, 2007 9:28:39 GMT -5
Bladesofsteel, I think Chipchura is hands down a better prospect than Grabovsky. Not only was Chips more of a key player in AHL Playoffs, but Chips also is a leader who does all the little things well and simply brings a lot more to the table than Grabovsky. In a couple of years, Chips will be leading our forwards in ice-time and could be our next Captain. Agreed. Chipchura is one of the smartest prospects I've ever seen play - he knows where to go and what to do without the puck as well as any 20-year-old kid I've scouted. I was actually a little surprised he put Grabovsky as high as he did.
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Post by bladesofsteel on Jul 1, 2007 9:36:53 GMT -5
I had a tough time bolding the names that stuck out, as to me, the order of the entire list is perplexing to say the least. Chipchura ahead of Grabovski? Pacioretti already so high without even attending camp? Halak not even in the top 10 despite being the best AHL goalie and almost getting the Habs into the playoffs? Now...farbeit from me to assume to be more knowledgeable than Mr. T, but I'll list a couple of my favourite prospects and why I feel they should be higher: -Grabovski. How is this guy not in the top 3? He was one of the best players in the world juniors' on a weak Belarus team. He had a very successful 1st year in the AHL despite adjusting to the NA game and language. I've always maintained he's got 1st line center potential and I won't deviate from it. -Milroy: showed a great deal of offensive skill in the early part of his season. He was snakebitten in the 2nd half but he's still a gamer and is able to play at both ends of the ice. I just don't get how this guy can be left off completely, same with Ferland. Now I know this list is based on potential, but if that's the case why would Chip be so high? Bladesofsteel, I think Chipchura is hands down a better prospect than Grabovsky. Not only was Chips more of a key player in AHL Playoffs, but Chips also is a leader who does all the little things well and simply brings a lot more to the table than Grabovsky. In a couple of years, Chips will be leading our forwards in ice-time and could be our next Captain. I should hope he's not leading us in ice time! This is not about me under-rating Chipchura as much as Halak and Grabovski being forgotten. Yes, Turnbuckle, I would be perplexed if I saw Pahlsson in anyone's top 10 prospects years ago. It's like putting Carbonneau ahead of Naslund. Look, I'm not saying Chipchura won't be valuable for us. I think he's a great piece of the future and would be key in the playoffs, but to believe a future 3rd line center is more important than our offensive prospects(not to mention MacDonagh) is a little hard to swallow for me.
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Post by SchoonerGuy on Jul 1, 2007 9:39:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Turnbuckle! VERY MUCH appreciated! Habs brass must be awfully high on Subban. I was surprised to see him ranked ahead of Emelin, Carle, Valentenko and O'Byrne. Have you heard anything about A.Kostitsyn's groin tear? Maybe no news is good news but it was serious enough to keep him out of the entire Calder Cup playoffs. Hopefully offseason rest makes it a non-issue. I also noticed Ferland isn't on the list and wasn't mentioned as a prospect with a job to lose. In my mind, I sort of thought he could have a 4th line job to lose as he would have to clear waiver in order for us to call him up during the season. Also, he addresses our size/softness label. Also, I don't think I can agree that Price has a job to lose. Gainey has stated before that Price will have to be a starting goalie if he is to make the NHL this season as he wants Price to play regularly. I can see Price being called up during the season but I'd be very surprised if he starts the season with the Habs. Thanks again! Gainey said he'll have to be the starting goalie? do you have that quote? Even if he did there's a good chance Price is the top goalie in Mtl this season. He is that good.We talked a fair bit about Ferland - Trevor doesn't think his skating is good enough. Likes his character and grit, but the speed isn't there to be effective at the next level. Just going by my horrible memory but Gainey said something about wanting Price to get regular play or starting goalie minutes wherever he plays...something like that. I can't remember the exact words. Even Timmins recently said that Price hasn't proven anything yet in the NHL. I'd still exercise a bit of caution as to how soon Price plays for the big club. He's in a pressure packed position in a pressure packed hockey crazy city. I don't think it would hurt him to start the season in Hamilton with the likelihood of a callup sometime during the season. We'll see how things work out. I even recall Timmins recently quoted as saying something about Price still hasn't done it in the NHL. I'd just hate to rush him and it doesn't seem like Gainey's style. If Habs brass don't think Ferland would be effective in the NHL, hopefully they pick us a physical winger somewhere this offseason. Did Timmins say anything about Lahti and what type of style he plays? Can Lahti make the NHL club?
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Post by SchoonerGuy on Jul 1, 2007 9:42:47 GMT -5
Bladesofsteel, I think Chipchura is hands down a better prospect than Grabovsky. Not only was Chips more of a key player in AHL Playoffs, but Chips also is a leader who does all the little things well and simply brings a lot more to the table than Grabovsky. In a couple of years, Chips will be leading our forwards in ice-time and could be our next Captain. I should hope he's not leading us in ice time! This is not about me under-rating Chipchura as much as Halak and Grabovski being forgotten. Yes, Turnbuckle, I would be perplexed if I saw Pahlsson in anyone's top 10 prospects years ago. It's like putting Carbonneau ahead of Naslund. Look, I'm not saying Chipchura won't be valuable for us. I think he's a great piece of the future and would be key in the playoffs, but to believe a future 3rd line center is more important than our offensive prospects(not to mention MacDonagh) is a little hard to swallow for me. Chipchura is rated below McDonagh on the list that was posted. 3rd line centres often lead forwards in ice-time. They're the ones you put against other teams top lines. Also, Chips was great in the 2005-06 WJC...led team in goals and was out there in all key situations. I see him as a less offensive Kirk Muller.
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Post by bladesofsteel on Jul 1, 2007 9:50:21 GMT -5
I should hope he's not leading us in ice time! This is not about me under-rating Chipchura as much as Halak and Grabovski being forgotten. Yes, Turnbuckle, I would be perplexed if I saw Pahlsson in anyone's top 10 prospects years ago. It's like putting Carbonneau ahead of Naslund. Look, I'm not saying Chipchura won't be valuable for us. I think he's a great piece of the future and would be key in the playoffs, but to believe a future 3rd line center is more important than our offensive prospects(not to mention MacDonagh) is a little hard to swallow for me. Chipchura is rated below McDonagh on the list that was posted. 3rd line centres often lead forwards in ice-time. They're the ones you put against other teams top lines. Oh well I goofed on that one. I'm talking regular season. Your best players get the top minutes.
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Post by turnbuckle on Jul 1, 2007 10:06:58 GMT -5
Bladesofsteel, I think Chipchura is hands down a better prospect than Grabovsky. Not only was Chips more of a key player in AHL Playoffs, but Chips also is a leader who does all the little things well and simply brings a lot more to the table than Grabovsky. In a couple of years, Chips will be leading our forwards in ice-time and could be our next Captain. I should hope he's not leading us in ice time! This is not about me under-rating Chipchura as much as Halak and Grabovski being forgotten. Yes, Turnbuckle, I would be perplexed if I saw Pahlsson in anyone's top 10 prospects years ago. It's like putting Carbonneau ahead of Naslund. Look, I'm not saying Chipchura won't be valuable for us. I think he's a great piece of the future and would be key in the playoffs, but to believe a future 3rd line center is more important than our offensive prospects(not to mention MacDonagh) is a little hard to swallow for me. Pahlsson was considered one of Colorado's top five prospects eigth years ago - people in the know correctly predicted at the time that he would one day be a tremendous two-way player...took him a few years to achieve that status, but the past three seasons I don't know that there's been a better two-way player than Sammy. Does that make him better than a Nagy? You're damn right - not even close. Grabovsky is 23 years old and he's not playing in the NHL, and if he does make the Habs this season he more than likely won't be playing in the top six. His defence is way behind Chipchura's..and he a couple years older. Chipchura on the other hand will be an NHL regular this season as a 21-year-old. As Trevor said to me yesterday...most good NHL teams have three solid lines and not necessarily a "third line"...and Chipchura projects to be a big part of that top nine, perhaps as soon as next October. Grabovsky is a lot less of a guarantee and he's two years older...so how can he be ranked ahead?
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Post by bladesofsteel on Jul 1, 2007 10:22:51 GMT -5
I should hope he's not leading us in ice time! This is not about me under-rating Chipchura as much as Halak and Grabovski being forgotten. Yes, Turnbuckle, I would be perplexed if I saw Pahlsson in anyone's top 10 prospects years ago. It's like putting Carbonneau ahead of Naslund. Look, I'm not saying Chipchura won't be valuable for us. I think he's a great piece of the future and would be key in the playoffs, but to believe a future 3rd line center is more important than our offensive prospects(not to mention MacDonagh) is a little hard to swallow for me. Pahlsson was considered one of Colorado's top five prospects eigth years ago - people in the know correctly predicted at the time that he would one day be a tremendous two-way player...took him a few years to achieve that status, but the past three seasons I don't know that there's been a better two-way player than Sammy. Does that make him better than a Nagy? You're damn right - not even close. Grabovsky is 23 years old and he's not playing in the NHL, and if he does make the Habs this season he more than likely won't be playing in the top six. His defence is way behind Chipchura's..and he a couple years older. Chipchura on the other hand will be an NHL regular this season as a 21-year-old. As Trevor said to me yesterday...most good NHL teams have three solid lines and not necessarily a "third line"...and Chipchura projects to be a big part of that top nine, perhaps as soon as next October. Grabovsky is a lot less of a guarantee and he's two years older...so how can he be ranked ahead? Offensive upside. When you have that, you can throw defense right out the window. Really, we're comparing apples to oranges and that's the point I'm trying to make. It all comes back to how a team views someone with a 20-25 goal ceiling. You have to put the puck in the net to succeed. To be honest, I'm also weary of the Habs putting that kind of responsibility on Kyle in his 1st year. We all know how Bonk was one of the few + players on the team and without his play during even strength I shudder to think where they would have finished.
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Post by habmeister on Jul 1, 2007 11:59:11 GMT -5
turnbuckle, sorry to be a bit of a skeptic, but what is your relationship with timmins? i find it a bit hard to believe that he's talking to all of these people online, yourself, streitshooter...
also that halak is way down at the bottom, maxwell and white ahead of grabovski and especially emelin.
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Post by bladesofsteel on Jul 1, 2007 12:03:22 GMT -5
turnbuckle, sorry to be a bit of a skeptic, but what is your relationship with timmins? i find it a bit hard to believe that he's talking to all of these people online, yourself, streitshooter... also that halak is way down at the bottom, maxwell and white ahead of grabovski and especially emelin. He actually is Streitshooter.
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Post by Toronthab on Jul 1, 2007 12:28:00 GMT -5
Great posts guys. Thanks a lot from the nosebleed section.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 1, 2007 12:31:49 GMT -5
Timmins feels Chippy, Lapierre, Kosty sr., Price and Grabovsky will have "jobs to lose" in training camp. He thinks they all stand a good chance of making the club out of training camp. This is the perplexing thing to me. Assuming we lose Ryder (which is not written in stone), and that we sign a UFA forward. We have Koivu, Higgins, Latendresse, UFA, Kovalev, Plekanec, and Begin. That's 7 forwards, and Ryder would be 8 if he is not traded/lost. So 4 rookies fill those last 4 spots. That's a full line of rookies or two rookies on the last two lines ..... risky.
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Post by habmeister on Jul 1, 2007 12:33:46 GMT -5
Timmins feels Chippy, Lapierre, Kosty sr., Price and Grabovsky will have "jobs to lose" in training camp. He thinks they all stand a good chance of making the club out of training camp. This is the perplexing thing to me. Assuming we lose Ryder (which is not written in stone), and that we sign a UFA forward. We have Koivu, Higgins, Latendresse, UFA, Kovalev, Plekanec, and Begin. That's 7 forwards, and Ryder would be 8 if he is not traded/lost. So 4 rookies fill those last 4 spots. That's a full line of rookies or two rookies on the last two lines ..... risky. i don't consider lapierre or kosty rookies do you? from what i saw of grabovski for his cup of coffee he has maybe the best combo of speed and skill in our organization and chips is smart and will play 4th line and pk, he'll be fine. his foot speed has improved enough.
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Post by CrocRob on Jul 1, 2007 12:40:09 GMT -5
That's pretty much how I see it. Grabovsky is the only wildcard in my mind. We've got a lot of rookies that have a very solid track record. Another rookie I've heard various things about is Ferland as a possible fourth-line winger. He's good on the forecheck and would complement Lapierre and Begin well. However Ferland isn't even on that list, so perhaps not? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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Post by Skilly on Jul 1, 2007 12:40:25 GMT -5
This is the perplexing thing to me. Assuming we lose Ryder (which is not written in stone), and that we sign a UFA forward. We have Koivu, Higgins, Latendresse, UFA, Kovalev, Plekanec, and Begin. That's 7 forwards, and Ryder would be 8 if he is not traded/lost. So 4 rookies fill those last 4 spots. That's a full line of rookies or two rookies on the last two lines ..... risky. i don't consider lapierre or kosty rookies do you? from what i saw of grabovski for his cup of coffee he has maybe the best combo of speed and skill in our organization and chips is smart and will play 4th line and pk, he'll be fine. his foot speed has improved enough. I dont consider Lapierre a rookie. But Grabs and Kosty I do. Chips may very well do fine at the NHL level .... he has the pose, I just wonder what our options are if Chips, Grabs and Kosty (or even one or two of the three) struggle? Our options are limited ... I think if we had a little experience and platoon a rookie (and have him in the pressbox off and on to evaluate) we may be in a better situation.
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Post by habmeister on Jul 1, 2007 12:45:21 GMT -5
i don't consider lapierre or kosty rookies do you? from what i saw of grabovski for his cup of coffee he has maybe the best combo of speed and skill in our organization and chips is smart and will play 4th line and pk, he'll be fine. his foot speed has improved enough. I dont consider Lapierre a rookie. But Grabs and Kosty I do. Chips may very well do fine at the NHL level .... he has the pose, I just wonder what our options are if Chips, Grabs and Kosty (or even one or two of the three) struggle? Our options are limited ... I think if we had a little experience and platoon a rookie (and have him in the pressbox off and on to evaluate) we may be in a better situation. if we sign a ufa d-man or two and o'byrne makes it then mr. utility can always go back to forward. streit is more valuable than we think.
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Post by CrocRob on Jul 1, 2007 12:50:18 GMT -5
Not to mention Dandenault could go to forward as well.
Personally I think Streit is more effective as a defenseman, but if we signed a UFA defenseman and O'Byrne made it, we could definitely push one of the two up to the third/fourth line.
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Post by skunk on Jul 1, 2007 13:13:21 GMT -5
With the notable exceptions of Kostitsyn and Halak, that is roughly the order these players were drafted over the past four years or so. It reveals Timmin's bias in the sense that he still rates them roughly in order that he ranked them for their respective drafts. It isn't a big thing, but his primary job is scouting and rating players for the entry draft, he wouldn't have a lot of time to monitor their progress afterwards. The other aspect is that the newest draftees haven't had a chance to disappoint yet. McDonagh et al are probably rated higher now than they might be in a couple of years. I would be willing to bet that David Fischer was at or near the top of his list a year ago.
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Post by CrocRob on Jul 1, 2007 13:19:06 GMT -5
T With the notable exceptions of Kostitsyn and Halak, that is roughly the order these players were drafted over the past four years or so. It reveals Timmin's bias in the sense that he still rates them roughly in order that he ranked them for their respective drafts. It isn't a big thing, but his primary job is scouting and rating players for the entry draft, he wouldn't have a lot of time to monitor their progress afterwards. The other aspect is that the newest draftees haven't had a chance to disappoint yet. McDonagh et al are probably rated higher now than they might be in a couple of years. I would be willing to bet that David Fischer was at or near the top of his list a year ago. I think there's a difference in how Timmins is rating prospects and how we inerpret it. He's rating them in terms of ultimate potential, where as often we rate them in terms of NHL-readiness and immediate impact. I don't doubt that McDonagh probably has very high potential to be an impact player -- at some point in the future -- but certainly a player like Grabovsky would have more impact than he if they were both thrust into the lineup tomorrow.
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Post by skunk on Jul 1, 2007 13:27:52 GMT -5
I don't think that Grabovski has enough offensive productivity in him to offset his shortcomings in other areas. I really question whether Andrei Kostitsyn does as well. I could see both of those players being gone within a year or two. Carbo isn't the type of coach to carry a "scorer" who isn't scoring (Sergei Samsonov). If Samsonov couln't make the grade, I'm not optomistic that either of the Belarussians can, they don't have near the offensive talent that Sergei has.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2007 15:06:08 GMT -5
Also, I don't think I can agree that Price has a job to lose. Gainey has stated before that Price will have to be a starting goalie if he is to make the NHL this season as he wants Price to play regularly. I can see Price being called up during the season but I'd be very surprised if he starts the season with the Habs. He could easily share duties with Huet, like a 1 and 1A. That doesn't sound too crazy, does it?
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Post by Bob on Jul 1, 2007 15:20:42 GMT -5
I don't think that Grabovski has enough offensive productivity in him to offset his shortcomings in other areas. I really question whether Andrei Kostitsyn does as well. I could see both of those players being gone within a year or two. Carbo isn't the type of coach to carry a "scorer" who isn't scoring (Sergei Samsonov). If Samsonov couln't make the grade, I'm not optomistic that either of the Belarussians can, they don't have near the offensive talent that Sergei has. Both Belarussians play with more jam than Samsonov ever had and they both skate better. Kostitsyn has a way better shot, he is better in the corners and probably a better passer. Grabovski has unreal speed, great vision and handles the puck very well at top speed. I would say both of these guys have upside offensive talent equal to Samsonov and ten times the grit.
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Post by skunk on Jul 1, 2007 16:58:07 GMT -5
Samsonov scored 40+ points in the RSL when he was 16-17 years old. Kostitsyn had 1 point in two years there when he was 17 and 18 years old. Grabovski never made the grade at all until he was 19, I believe. You have to be awfully optomistic to assume that either player has a fraction of the talent of Samsonov. Hell, Sergei won the Calder when he was 19, and scored twice as many points at that age IN THE NHL as Kostitsyn scored IN THE AHL.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 1, 2007 20:44:34 GMT -5
Ah.....statistics....you can make them say anything. Trouble is we're talking about these players today, not the Samsonov of 9 years ago. He was waived through the league. No one wanted him. I bet if we had to waive either Grabovski or AK, someone would have claimed them. So what does that say? (Of course there are large holes in that argument...which I won't point out to you, but I'm making the point that one can see something from numerous vantage points, just like statistics can lie in many ways).
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Post by habmeister on Jul 1, 2007 20:53:43 GMT -5
Samsonov scored 40+ points in the RSL when he was 16-17 years old. Kostitsyn had 1 point in two years there when he was 17 and 18 years old. Grabovski never made the grade at all until he was 19, I believe. You have to be awfully optomistic to assume that either player has a fraction of the talent of Samsonov. Hell, Sergei won the Calder when he was 19, and scored twice as many points at that age IN THE NHL as Kostitsyn scored IN THE AHL. saw kosty play 10 games and samsonov 50+ LAST SEASON and kosty is a much better player now. not sure how they played at 16-17 years has a ton to do as now.
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