|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jan 20, 2024 14:39:01 GMT -5
I hope we can land Lindstrom... I saw a collection of videos of Lindstrom by some amateur scout (don't knock those guys, some put a ton of time into their passion). Lots of plays, mostly offensive. I'd have to see more. What I did see didn't make me jump up and clamor for us to pick him. Not that he didn't make good plays and I may be picky here, but something didn't resonate. Maybe it's because he didn't seem to do anything especially creative. He went where you're supposed to go. He skates well. He's big. I saw him not score a lot on the many chances he had. Maybe that's what's bugging me. Or maybe the videos the guy selected weren't representative of his work. The games I saw Catton play in the U-18's for example, were more impressive. High hockey IQ, deceptively good skater, good hands as well. He scored. Lindstrom has 27-19-46 totals in 32 games and is +12. Catton has 28-37-65 in 40 games and is +7. Medicine Hat, Lindstrom's team, is a strong one, with a .651 win percentage and +61 goal differential. Spokane,, Catton's team, is not good, sporting a .425 win percentage and goal differential of -19. Lindstrom is the 4th leading scorer on his team. Catton is the top guy on his team, followed by a 20 year old 7 points lower and another 20 year old, 18 points less than Catton. My assessment is that Catton is doing more with less. His ppg is slightly higher than Lindstrom's. Where Lindstrom has a clear advantage is in size, 6' 4" 215 lbs to 5' 11" 164 lbs. Josh Anderson and Joel Armia (most of the time) are also big bodied players. Hockey people say those guys win in the playoffs for you, but I never saw anything from Anderson at least, in the playoffs, that wowed me. He did manage to not miss the empty net when Fleury gave him the puck that time. I agree that size is necessary in the playoffs. It's a grind. Is a big lug worth more than a smaller, more highly skilled player? How many small players can you get away with? Henri Richard was as small as they come and he was a warrior. As an aside, Catton is reported to have strong leadership skills. He was the captain of the U-18 team and he scores important goals. I saw that in the U-18s. So yes, I'm kind of tearing down Mr Lindstrom when he doesn't deserve it. He's from Chetwynd, a small town in the North Peace area of BC (northeast section) where I spent 10 years, so I have a soft spot for him because of that. I sure like what I see of Catton, though. Patrice Bergeron potential if he fills out. Smaht scouting has Catton going 4th and Lindstrom going 6th Tankathon has Lindstrom 7th and catton 8th Sportsnet has catton 6 and Lindstron 7th We'll see how it goes, either would be fine with me |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Jan 20, 2024 20:42:04 GMT -5
Suzuki isn't going anywhere and neither is Dach, so if we were to get Zegras, he would be a 3C, which is a waste of talent or you put him as a top six winger with Suze and CC and move Slaf with Dach or you put Zegras with Dach Get the talent at a reasonable price and worry about whete to put them afterwards. Plus if you roll 4 lines of fury, there is less emphasis on which line is first. As it stands, if Monahan doesn't resign with us we got a pretty poor forward group...even with a halthy Dach. With Monahan and Zegras, along with decent health, we will likely make the playoffs. |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jan 20, 2024 20:47:40 GMT -5
Suzuki isn't going anywhere and neither is Dach, so if we were to get Zegras, he would be a 3C, which is a waste of talent or you put him as a top six winger with Suze and CC and move Slaf with Dach or you put Zegras with Dach Get the talent at a reasonable price and worry about whete to put them afterwards. Plus if you roll 4 lines of fury, there is less emphasis on which line is first. As it stands, if Monahan doesn't resign with us we got a pretty poor forward group...even with a halthy Dach. With Monahan and Zegras, along with decent health, we will likely make the playoffs. I worry about Monahan staying healthy... but I also worry about Dach |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jan 21, 2024 18:29:55 GMT -5
They better not... Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jan 22, 2024 18:31:31 GMT -5
I'm not buying it. People always throw Montreal in there to get clicks.
If you move a piece like Guhle, it has to be in conjunction with another nice piece in order to land a top line difference maker up front. Zegras is not that.
I get it that the Habs' situation down the middle in the short-term is not overly reassuring -- Dach is injury-prone until he proves he isn't, Monahan may well sign somewhere else, Beck will likely benefit from a season in the A, Dvorak is meh and made of glass, Evans is underwhelming in any role aside from 4C. However, management is not in a position where they have to panic and overpay for a talent on the level of Zegras.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jan 22, 2024 23:43:07 GMT -5
I am solidly in the no to Zegras camp. I'm not crazy about some of his antics, which seem too individually focused rather than team focused. He also seems (and this is my opinion alone) that he's the kind of guy who will disappear in the playoffs.
Guhle, OTOH, is totally team focused, captain of most teams he's been on and is only going through some growing pains this season. I'm interested to see if his play picks up now that Barron won't be paired with him at times. He''s also been on his off 'wing' and that means he has to think rather than simply react as he was always used to. Guhle is going to be a rock for this team and worth a lot more than whatever net offense Zegras can add to the club.
|
|
|
|
Post by frozone on Jan 23, 2024 9:09:03 GMT -5
Agreed. Guhle over Zegras any day for me.
Zegras is a project, and not exactly one that I would have the stomach to take on if I were MSL. Not at this stage, anyway. Sure, some of his goals and assists will be beautiful, but he'll let us down in so many other areas of the game. Defense, faceoffs, effort...
As long as we're trying to win hockey games we have no business giving up Guhle for a handful of pretty goals.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2024 1:27:31 GMT -5
I won’t start a new thread, but LA recalled Alex Turcotte from their AHL farm team. Turcotte has 23 points in 28 AHL games and is plus 8. He was in that 2019 draft that Hughes loves. Turcotte will be 23 in Feb and has been somewhat of a disappointment to the Kings. Development has been slow. Goalies don’t get you much so maybe there’s a deal to be made.
I liked Turcotte in that draft. He was picked 5th overall, ahead of Zegras, ahead of Caufield, Cozens, and Boldy. Might be a good gamble even if we have to add someone like Farrell. He was a centre but I don’t know if that’s still his position.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jan 28, 2024 9:45:11 GMT -5
I won’t start a new thread, but LA recalled Alex Turcotte from their AHL farm team. Turcotte has 23 points in 28 AHL games and is plus 8. He was in that 2019 draft that Hughes loves. Turcotte will be 23 in Feb and has been somewhat of a disappointment to the Kings. Development has been slow. Goalies don’t get you much so maybe there’s a deal to be made. I liked Turcotte in that draft. He was picked 5th overall, ahead of Zegras, ahead of Caufield, Cozens, and Boldy. Might be a good gamble even if we have to add someone like Farrell. He was a centre but I don’t know if that’s still his position. Maybe send them Monahan and Armia since burgerbrain loves Armia so much... lol |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jan 28, 2024 12:37:05 GMT -5
Evaluating and projecting 18 year old kids is far from an exact science. So Rob Blake is not the first GM to whiff massively on a top ten pick.
Turcotte turns 23 this month, is oft-injured and has zero points in the NHL. I am not saying he is not going to have in career in the league but where he is at in his development, particularly for a forward, seems telling. For me the asking price would have to be rather minimal.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2024 14:58:12 GMT -5
Evaluating and projecting 18 year old kids is far from an exact science. So Rob Blake is not the first GM to whiff massively on a top ten pick. Turcotte turns 23 this month, is oft-injured and has zero points in the NHL. I am not saying he is not going to have in career in the league but where he is at in his development, particularly for a forward, seems telling. For me the asking price would have to be rather minimal. fair enough. What would you consider minimal? Jake Allen alone? Would getting rid of Allen's contract and simplifying the goalie position not be additional benefits? |
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jan 28, 2024 15:13:43 GMT -5
Evaluating and projecting 18 year old kids is far from an exact science. So Rob Blake is not the first GM to whiff massively on a top ten pick. Turcotte turns 23 this month, is oft-injured and has zero points in the NHL. I am not saying he is not going to have in career in the league but where he is at in his development, particularly for a forward, seems telling. For me the asking price would have to be rather minimal. fair enough. What would you consider minimal? Jake Allen alone? Would getting rid of Allen's contract and simplifying the goalie position not be additional benefits? I take a flyer on Turcotte, and Allen is not playing lights out so not sure what sort of draft pick we could get... besides that we drafted his dad... Maybe the kings would throw in Dubois and make Cranky SuperUberDuperCranky... lol |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Jan 28, 2024 16:22:46 GMT -5
Sure, I would take Turcotte for Allen with retention. However, Blake really has the Kings jammed up cap-wise, so even at 50 percent it probably would not work without additional roster juggling in LA.
Man, it would embarrassing for Blake to cut his losses on Dubois in the first year after trading for and signing him. If the Kings would take Gallagher, then it is a conversation I would be willing to have if I were Hughes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Feb 6, 2024 13:02:41 GMT -5
I wonder how true this is Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 6, 2024 14:29:14 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that LA would do Ghally for Donkey but after reading the article on him where his teamates were glad he's gone, I'm done.
It's one thing to lack motivation, it's another to be toxic.
Blake needs to get buy him out THIS season were it is still manageable otherwise it's going to hurt big time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Feb 6, 2024 14:41:32 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that LA would do Ghally for Donkey but after reading the article on him where his teamates were glad he's gone, I'm done. It's one thing to lack motivation, it's another to be toxic. Blake needs to get buy him out THIS season were it is still manageable otherwise it's going to hurt big time. Donkey has a signed contract that must be honoured... July 15, 2024 the buyout cap hit is as follows 2024-25 $1,630,952 2025-26 $1,530,952 2026-27 $2,530,952 2027-28 $3,780,952 2028-29 $3,800,952 2029-30 $3,820,952 2030-31 $2,820,952 2031-32 $1,130,952 2032-33 $1,130,952 2033-34 $1,130,952 2034-35 $1,130,952 2035-36 $1,130,952 2036-37 $1,130,952 2037-38 $1,130,952 That's a long term cap hit pill to swallow... Blake could blame burgerbrain |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 6, 2024 14:49:27 GMT -5
From what i read, the total amount is less this season then waiting for next season.
Either way it's going to hurt BIG time. Including anyone trading for him and then deciding to buy him out.
I don't remember anything this toxic happening before. At least with the Habs name remotly attached.
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Feb 6, 2024 19:40:13 GMT -5
I read that too, but nothing being said was top secret. Everyone is NHL circles knows each other, so Robitaille and Blake had a huge range of access to opinions from coaches and players about Dubois. They were not persuaded.
Anything can happen, but honestly I do not see Dubois departing Los Angeles unless ownership cleans out top management. And even in that event, a new management group would be just as likely to try take 4-6 weeks to either get Dubois' head right or trade him before they want to chew on 14 seasons of buyout penalties going on the ledger. Yet there is no denying that a massive strategic decision in Los Angeles needs to be made before the middle of June.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 7, 2024 3:50:16 GMT -5
PLD contract is so negative, it landed in hell and the Devil hugged it. :dunno:
I'm suing PLD for emotion distress and abandoman. I feel emotionally traumatized by his lazy play.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Feb 7, 2024 8:17:35 GMT -5
PLD contract is so negative, it landed in hell and the Devil hugged it. :dunno: I'm suing PLD for emotion distress and abandoman. I feel emotionally traumatized by his lazy play. He's got the money to settle out of ccourt |
|
|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Feb 7, 2024 10:36:53 GMT -5
It's rare that I get excited over a trade rumor/player, but man, I really wish this one happens. If Hughes could trade Winnipeg and Florida/Calgary picks for him, I'd be a happy camper. We need an influx of top 6 talent and he is still young enough to break out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Feb 7, 2024 12:59:09 GMT -5
It's rare that I get excited over a trade rumor/player, but man, I really wish this one happens. If Hughes could trade Winnipeg and Florida/Calgary picks for him, I'd be a happy camper. We need an influx of top 6 talent and he is still young enough to break out. If we end up with Jets and panthers picks they should be in the mid to late 20s... do those 2 equal a 9th? |
|
|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Feb 7, 2024 13:23:11 GMT -5
It's rare that I get excited over a trade rumor/player, but man, I really wish this one happens. If Hughes could trade Winnipeg and Florida/Calgary picks for him, I'd be a happy camper. We need an influx of top 6 talent and he is still young enough to break out. If we end up with Jets and panthers picks they should be in the mid to late 20s... do those 2 equal a 9th? Well does 16 OA = 31st and 37th? I mean we would probably have to add a B+ prospect to those 2 picks. |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Feb 7, 2024 22:16:46 GMT -5
Zegras is a real offensive talent, but the lack of a well-rounded game has raised questions in Anaheim (and elsewhere) about whether he can deliver the goods as a center. There will be plenty of suitors for Zegras, particularly in certain big markets (New York, Chicago) in the States where the feeling would be 'okay he's not on a long-term contract, no problem, we can get him locked up.'
I do not doubt that Hughes will be sniffing around because the Habs do indeed need more top six offensive firepower. For me I would pass on Zegras if it means giving up a top ten 2024 first rounder (or Guhle) plus another nice piece; however, just for the sake of argument let's say Hughes does land him. I would have a hard time imagining a top line with a diminutive sniper, a soft average-sized winger, and Suzuki. I get it that they are all magicians with the puck. But I see a lot of value in creating balance with the 'other' winger on Suzuki's line having both skill and the size to win/protect pucks.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 7, 2024 23:56:39 GMT -5
In my mind I keep going back to the fact that 'he isn't Verbeek's kind of player'. I've heard that phrase used on Ray and Dregs when they discussed Zegras being on the market. They both have a high opinion of Verbeek. I haven't made up my mind on him, but I recall him as a very dogged, determined, but highly skilled player. He played over 1400 NHL games and put up a lot of PIM's. So when I hear that he's not Verbeek's kind of player, it does raise red flags for me. Verbeek was only 5'9" but played at 190 lbs, so he was shaped like a brick outhouse. In 20 odd seasons, he never did win the Cup though. What is it about 20 season players who don't win the Cup becoming GM's?
I did think Verbeek made a good choice, picking Leo Carlsson in last year's draft.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 8, 2024 0:58:55 GMT -5
A CC-Suzuki-Zegras line is going to score 3 a game and be scored on 5. I wouldn't be suprised if they were a minus night every night.
Better to leave Slaf on their wing and play Dach with the Zegras and who? Roy? Ylonen? Who is working his way to Europe?
How's our 3C doing? Unless we resign Monahan, the 3C is Evans and a prayer. Newhook? Who are his wingers?
We better hope Roy, Beck and Mesar graduate to mid 6 or we are going to resign Ghally and his walker.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 8, 2024 14:47:09 GMT -5
A CC-Suzuki-Zegras line is going to score 3 a game and be scored on 5. I wouldn't be suprised if they were a minus night every night. Better to leave Slaf on their wing and play Dach with the Zegras and who? Roy? Ylonen? Who is working his way to Europe? How's our 3C doing? Unless we resign Monahan, the 3C is Evans and a prayer. Newhook? Who are his wingers? We better hope Roy, Beck and Mesar graduate to mid 6 or we are going to resign Ghally and his walker. This line of reasoning is exactly whey we need to fall low enough this year to have a shot at one of Celebrini, Lindstrom, Demidov, and Catton. I'm also keeping my fingers crossed that some of those teams below us (CHicago for exammple) feels a strong need for a defenseman, and leaves at least 1 or 2 of those 4 guys alone. That adds another top 6 player to the mix. Caufield, Suzuki, Slaf, Dach, 2024 pick and one of Newhook or Roy. After those guys there are a number of players who are dart throws. Some are from 3 feet away (Ylonen, Beck, Mesar). Others are from 10 feet away (Rohrer, Florian, Ericksson, Guindon, Kidney, Simoneau, Farrell, Tuch and Mysak). A solid 3rd line is very important and between Beck, Ylonen, Ericksson, Rohrer, Newhook or Roy (whoever doesn't make that 2nd line), we should be ok there. Fourth lines are easier to put together. Between all those guys, if 3 can make it, that gives us a good base, along with the 3 foot dart throws, to have a solid bottom 6. This year's picks are important too, as are next year's 2 first rounders. Or Hughes uses that draft capital and trades for a good player who is having difficulty elsewhere. Kent Johnson in Columbus is one name that comes to mind. |
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Feb 8, 2024 18:44:35 GMT -5
Boys, I know he entirely forgettable (as well as out of the sight, out of the mind right now), but Dvorak is probably the 3C when camp breaks because given his vanilla body of work as a Hab and the endless injuries I doubt Hughes would find anything decent in return this summer. This would return Evans to the fourth line, where he belongs. And Beck likely gets a little professional seasoning with the Rocket, until the 2025 trade deadline or Habs injuries.
And the in-house answers on the wing are not great in the immediate future. Gallagher is basically unmovable; it would take something earth shattering happening to change that. Armia has sort of played himself up into the half-way respectable category after a dreadful lazy start, so it is far from a given that he gets bought out this summer, whereas when he got sent to Laval three months ago I was starting to believe the likeliest scenario for Armia was summer 2024 buyout. Anderson has three years left at $5.5, which fits poorly with his offensive productivity. But I just do not get any feeling that management is going to retain until 2028.
Therefore, as much as we all want the turnover to take place as quickly as possible, I am not necessarily seeing a major graduation of prospects up front in 2024-25. I see Roy getting a hard look and if he can complement Dach or Dvorak maybe he will be mainstay in the middle six next season. If the organization likes Heinemann, then it certainly seems like he should be in the NHL next season. I see Beck jumping into the league at the deadline or earlier if there are guys lost to injury. But who else is likely to be ready? I do not really anticipate anyone else.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Feb 8, 2024 20:23:27 GMT -5
I don't see a turnaround either unless we put our firsts on the line and trade for youngsters whose shine was lost.
Let's say Kakko, Kaliyev and Frost (or equivilant)...by trading our 3 firsts/seconds plus Harris and/or Barron.
Or we can add three more prospects that may be useful in 3-4 years. Or not.
Then add Monahan.
Now THAT speeds up the build and maybe, just maybe brings us into the playoffs. No, we won't contend and we may even have to put Ghally on waivers. But how many centuries are we going to keep churning in the basement mud before we step up from the build?
|
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Feb 8, 2024 22:29:19 GMT -5
The waiting is the hardest part...
And just to be a little contrarian, I would say this is technically only year two of the rebuild. Maybe most of us sensed 2021-22 was going to be huge letdown, but when you just battled your way to the SCF and the same GM/Coach were being rolled back it is not as though major renovations had begun to any real extent.
I love keeping on an eye on talented, buy-low, early 20s guys and pressing hard on one or two in the summer. But it takes two to tango. And I am not sure the Rangers want to give up on Kakko for, say, the 8th overall pick in 2024 because they have an owner that thinks, probably foolishly, that they are top contenders who should have delivered a Cup by now. And, frankly, I am not sure that Kakko is worth a top ten pick anymore given that he is 23 years old with 250+ games in the league and limited production (.387 ppg).
I like Kaliyev's potential as a pure sniper and since he was not even a first rounder, and the management team that drafted him may get gassed in April/May, the Kings may be willing to move on from him for a late first rounder. Who knows, though. Maybe a new GM and coach in place want to give the kid a longer leash in 2024-25 to see what he can do.
Hughes has been bold. The last two summers he traded a mid first round pick, a late first round pick, a super early second rounder, and a fourth in order to bring in Dach and Newhook. Unfortunately, injuries have derailed the progress of those guys. But my point is that banking young roster players or holding/using all your picks represent alternatives wrought with uncertainty and no guarantees that option A or option B will be the jet fuel for lift off out of the cellar in the league standings and propulsion into playoff status.
|
|
:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/6F6VF25GCFF2HFJCOITRJSGNPE.jpg)
