Zegras is still NOT a Hab

[Cranky]

I'm just throwing it out there to see the community reaction.

Zegras for Guhle? Or let's say 8th OA in 2024?

Personally I like my players to be dead serious but the kids skill level is obscene.

Thoughts and prayers?

[Willie Dog]

Guhle is a high price, I would prefer the 8OA and Barron or Harris... Zegras and Cole with Suzuki and Slaf with Dach and Roy

[Polarice]

Jan 10, 2024 6:32:58 GMT -5 Cranky said:

I'm just throwing it out there to see the community reaction.

Zegras for Guhle? Or let's say 8th OA in 2024?

Personally I like my players to be dead serious but the kids skill level is obscene.

Thoughts and prayers?

Guhle has a Norris in his future....be hard to give a player like that up.

I'd rather offer a player like Harris and our 1st in 2024.

[PTH]

I love the skill level, but I'm weary of dealing a guy like Guhle, who reminds me so much of McDonaugh... And an 8th overall is just too high to risk moving IMO.

Zegras... I love the skill level, but he also seems like the kind who can age badly or have his game fall apart under the wrong circumstances. Like Jeff Skinner, who is productive but seems high maintenance overall.

All that being said, some kind of D for forward deal will need to be made at some point, to get some high-end forwards, and with Struble stepping up Guhle is definitely more available than he was 3 months ago.

[Tankdriver]

I'd offer up basically anyone on our current defence with maybe Mesnar.

[Andrew]

I'm curious as to why Anaheim is shopping him. A young skilled center like Zegras is seemingly the type of player that a team like Anaheim would want to build around.

I haven't watched enough of him to have a strong opinion about his play, but my concern would be that we overpay and he ends up being Drouin 2.0. Sure he can score pretty Michigan goals in mean-nothing games, but does he show up and make a difference when it matters?

[Cranky]

I watched a few videos and he's a bit of a showman much like PK was.

Does it bother me? Sure it does but if his talent is at a game breaking level then i can ignore the youtubes. He would be the most talented player we have on the team. He can literally make something out of nothing.

Do i want him over another Dach? No. But there is a finite amount of big talents available.

Would i give him up for our 8th OA? Yes, no doubt. That 8th may be 3-4 years away before contributing.

[Tankdriver]

Jan 10, 2024 12:48:54 GMT -5 Andrew said:

I'm curious as to why Anaheim is shopping him. A young skilled center like Zegras is seemingly the type of player that a team like Anaheim would want to build around.

I haven't watched enough of him to have a strong opinion about his play, but my concern would be that we overpay and he ends up being Drouin 2.0. Sure he can score pretty Michigan goals in mean-nothing games, but does he show up and make a difference when it matters?

A few reasons. They had a long contract stalement which caused him to miss training camp. With the late start and injuries, he isn't producing at his previous years clip (60-65 points) . Also, they aren't sure if he should slot in as a winger or as a center. His defensive / complete level is not the greatest. He does seem a little like a Johnathan Drouin in that regards except I think he actually likes to play hockey and doesn't play it because he is good at it. Besides that, he seems to be maybe more care free spirit (PK, Caulfield) and less serious (Shea Weber).

Personally, I would take a shot at it, if he was available. I think he might be more like a Nylander. We need more offensive guys, and we don't have that in the system.

[Willie Dog]

If we can get a 1st for Monahan and we bundle that with our 1st would that be enough to get Zegras... it wouldn't cost us anything...

[folatre]

Zegras is a nice player who can do some magical things with the puck. For me, however, he is not an elite difference-maker. I would only move Guhle if it is in a package for that kind of guy.

Also, Zegras is not locked up long-term. So if he gets moved out of Anaheim, in the not so distant future he could become a headache for whoever acquires him.

[seventeen]

No way I'm giving up Guhle or Xhekaj or our first rounder this year, which is likely to be in the 7-10 range. I might give up next year's as I think we're going to be quite a bit better next year.

Now...does Zegras fall into the same (almost) category as Michkov, namely attitude issues? Not PK type attitude issues which were just different from the hockey establishment, but caring for teammates and winning. Is he driven to support his team and to win? That was never a question with PK.  Zegras has just 7 points in 20 games this year, but I would disregard that. The guy is talented.

Let's say we don't have any issues with attitude and we are not worried about the slow start this year. Who are we willing to give up who might actually be unpalatable to us (it has to hurt) and attractive to Anaheim. They're very deep down the middle, so they're not interested in centres. On D they have Mintyukov scoring well but he's -11 so far. Still, at only 20 years of age, he's a keeper. Zellweger is lighting up the AHL so he's another up and comer, but it has to be kept in mind he's 5' 9" 182 lbs, so on the small side, but a team can afford one small defender. They there's Noah Warren and Tristan Luneau as well thought of prospects. As we know however, not all prospects develop to NHL players and with Fowler aging and Gudas at age 33, they could use more D-men, something we have a surplus of. They also need wingers but so do we.

My offer would be Logan Mailloux, their choice of Heineman or Ylonen and the worst of either our Round 1 pick or Calgary's pick in 2025. I might even add Barron in that (and take away Ylonen and Heineman). I don't think that's enough IMO, but I hate to give up any of our core kids. Guhle, Xhekaj, Hutson, Beck, Dach, Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Engstrom, Struble are pencilled in as keepers to me. Mesar, Harris, Tuch, Norlinder, etc are all guys I could part with, but would Anaheim want them? Harris and Mesar maybe, but at some point it's too much.

I don't think there's enough top line talent in my offer, but with Mintyukov and those centres, Anaheim doesn't lack for elite talent. They need support and my package contains a lot of support players and some pretty good ones.

I doubt very much they want Anderson or Gallagher or Monahan. Maybe Evans if they're looking at a #4 centre.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 10, 2024 23:56:59 GMT -5 seventeen said:

No way I'm giving up Guhle or Xhekaj or our first rounder this year, which is likely to be in the 7-10 range. I might give up next year's as I think we're going to be quite a bit better next year.

Now...does Zegras fall into the same (almost) category as Michkov, namely attitude issues? Not PK type attitude issues which were just different from the hockey establishment, but caring for teammates and winning. Is he driven to support his team and to win? That was never a question with PK.  Zegras has just 7 points in 20 games this year, but I would disregard that. The guy is talented.

Let's say we don't have any issues with attitude and we are not worried about the slow start this year. Who are we willing to give up who might actually be unpalatable to us (it has to hurt) and attractive to Anaheim. They're very deep down the middle, so they're not interested in centres. On D they have Mintyukov scoring well but he's -11 so far. Still, at only 20 years of age, he's a keeper. Zellweger is lighting up the AHL so he's another up and comer, but it has to be kept in mind he's 5' 9" 182 lbs, so on the small side, but a team can afford one small defender. They there's Noah Warren and Tristan Luneau as well thought of prospects. As we know however, not all prospects develop to NHL players and with Fowler aging and Gudas at age 33, they could use more D-men, something we have a surplus of. They also need wingers but so do we.

My offer would be Logan Mailloux, their choice of Heineman or Ylonen and the worst of either our Round 1 pick or Calgary's pick in 2025. I might even add Barron in that (and take away Ylonen and Heineman). I don't think that's enough IMO, but I hate to give up any of our core kids. Guhle, Xhekaj, Hutson, Beck, Dach, Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Engstrom, Struble are pencilled in as keepers to me. Mesar, Harris, Tuch, Norlinder, etc are all guys I could part with, but would Anaheim want them? Harris and Mesar maybe, but at some point it's too much.

I don't think there's enough top line talent in my offer, but with Mintyukov and those centres, Anaheim doesn't lack for elite talent. They need support and my package contains a lot of support players and some pretty good ones.

I doubt very much they want Anderson or Gallagher or Monahan. Maybe Evans if they're looking at a #4 centre.

Zegras was a 9OA, so I think our 1st, which would be in that area would be enough... we could add Barron or/and Savard to sweeten it if they throw in their 2nd rounder

[franko]

Jan 11, 2024 9:12:51 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

Zegras was a 9OA, so I think our 1st, which would be in that area would be enough... we could add Barron or/and Savard to sweeten it if they throw in their 2nd rounder

wouldn't that be considered a Pollock-like coup?

[Willie Dog]

Jan 11, 2024 14:35:11 GMT -5 franko said:

Jan 11, 2024 9:12:51 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

Zegras was a 9OA, so I think our 1st, which would be in that area would be enough... we could add Barron or/and Savard to sweeten it if they throw in their 2nd rounder

wouldn't that be considered a Pollock-like coup?

I'd be ok with that...

[seventeen]

One Tweet pundit is saying that Anaheim will be looking for a return better than what they got for Drysdale. That's steep. Unless they go for one of the packages suggested above, I'd say pass. As the D improves and David Savard's contract runs out, we should be spending 20% less time in our zone, which means an improvement in scoring. My guess is Suzuki is or becomes at least a 90 point centre and Dach will be in that vicinity or higher. Beck is the third line guy and we can find someone somewhere for that 4th line job. Kapanen could be it or Simoneau, or Kidney or even Rohrer or someone we draft this year or next. Maybe we get Berkley Catton this year or Cayden Lindstrom, solidifying the scoring at centre. It's not necessary to move a core piece to get Zegras. We're building a team, not just a collection of talented individuals.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 11, 2024 14:55:04 GMT -5 seventeen said:

One Tweet pundit is saying that Anaheim will be looking for a return better than what they got for Drysdale. That's steep. Unless they go for one of the packages suggested above, I'd say pass. As the D improves and David Savard's contract runs out, we should be spending 20% less time in our zone, which means an improvement in scoring. My guess is Suzuki is or becomes at least a 90 point centre and Dach will be in that vicinity or higher. Beck is the third line guy and we can find someone somewhere for that 4th line job. Kapanen could be it or Simoneau, or Kidney or even Rohrer or someone we draft this year or next. Maybe we get Berkley Catton this year or Cayden Lindstrom, solidifying the scoring at centre. It's not necessary to move a core piece to get Zegras. We're building a team, not just a collection of talented individuals.

I'm pretty high in Cayden Lindstrom... he can play all forward positions and he's a big boy.

[Boston_Habs]

I guess I'm in the minority on Kaiden Guhle. I'm just not sure I see a future Norris candidate or even an All Star (which to me is among the top 12-15 dmen in the league). I sincerely hope he is and we don't give up on him, but defense is the one area of organizational depth and our best currency to address other needs. Jordan Harris and Justin Barron would be moveable pieces, but I don't see much upside for either of those beyond solid 3rd pair or fringe 2nd pair guys. Shockingly, Struble has jumped over both of those guys in my estimation.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 16, 2024 17:00:18 GMT -5 Boston_Habs said:

I guess I'm in the minority on Kaiden Guhle. I'm just not sure I see a future Norris candidate or even an All Star (which to me is among the top 12-15 dmen in the league). I sincerely hope he is and we don't give up on him, but defense is the one area of organizational depth and our best currency to address other needs. Jordan Harris and Justin Barron would be moveable pieces, but I don't see much upside for either of those beyond solid 3rd pair or fringe 2nd pair guys. Shockingly, Struble has jumped over both of those guys in my estimation.

I look at our D in 3 years

Guhle- Hutson
Xhekaj - mailloux
Struble - reinbacher
Harris - engstrom

Barron, chaosevic and the others can go

[IamCanadiens]

Jan 16, 2024 18:38:07 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

Jan 16, 2024 17:00:18 GMT -5 Boston_Habs said:

I guess I'm in the minority on Kaiden Guhle. I'm just not sure I see a future Norris candidate or even an All Star (which to me is among the top 12-15 dmen in the league). I sincerely hope he is and we don't give up on him, but defense is the one area of organizational depth and our best currency to address other needs. Jordan Harris and Justin Barron would be moveable pieces, but I don't see much upside for either of those beyond solid 3rd pair or fringe 2nd pair guys. Shockingly, Struble has jumped over both of those guys in my estimation.

I look at our D in 3 years

Guhle- Hutson
Xhekaj - mailloux
Struble - reinbacher
Harris - engstrom

Barron, chaosevic and the others can go

In 3 years I hope to see Reinbacher on the 1st or 2nd pairing. I very much like his long term potential.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 17, 2024 19:27:52 GMT -5 IamCanadiens said:

Jan 16, 2024 18:38:07 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

I look at our D in 3 years

Guhle- Hutson
Xhekaj - mailloux
Struble - reinbacher
Harris - engstrom

Barron, chaosevic and the others can go

In 3 years I hope to see Reinbacher on the 1st or 2nd pairing. I very much like his long term potential.

I just put the LD and RD together that I thought would work well together but the line order is not indicative of any ranking

[seventeen]

Jan 16, 2024 18:38:07 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

Jan 16, 2024 17:00:18 GMT -5 Boston_Habs said:

I guess I'm in the minority on Kaiden Guhle. I'm just not sure I see a future Norris candidate or even an All Star (which to me is among the top 12-15 dmen in the league). I sincerely hope he is and we don't give up on him, but defense is the one area of organizational depth and our best currency to address other needs. Jordan Harris and Justin Barron would be moveable pieces, but I don't see much upside for either of those beyond solid 3rd pair or fringe 2nd pair guys. Shockingly, Struble has jumped over both of those guys in my estimation.

I look at our D in 3 years

Guhle- Hutson
Xhekaj - mailloux
Struble - reinbacher
Harris - engstrom

Barron, chaosevic and the others can go

Those are the guys I think will survive too. It will be interesting to see who develops furthest and takes over those top 4 spots. Purely guessing, but my picks are Guhle, Hutson, Struble, and Reinbacher. Hutson will be the biggest challenge. He's going to have to learn, like Quinn Hughes, not to get into physical board battles but to work his stick to dispossess opponents. Last night one of our D, (Harris?) tried going around a defending forward at the top of the offensive zone and didn't quite have enough to do it and had to circle back. Matheson has the skating to manage it, but his puck handling can cause some real problems. Hutson has the skating and the hands to do it. He'll be a lot of fun if he can manage the defensive side.

Struble keeps impressing me more and more. His upside might be higher than many think, but the floor is already much further than expected. He has a very deceptive stride so he doesn't look nearly as fast as he is. He has caught numerous forwards when they have thought they were clear. He also has deceptive strength. 'Only' 6 feet tall, so he looks like Bruce Banner, but then he pulls an Incredible Hulk feat (was it Tage Thompson he caught and pushed to one side on that breakaway vs Buffalo?) and your eyes pop. Sheesh, can't always remember who the opponent was, but there was one Devil last night who was cycling in the Habs corner and Struble went to check him and I thought, "That guy's done", and he was. Struble tied him up and a teammate got the puck. He had one bad game recently, but other than that, he has been very consistent and we also see him attacking and gaining the zone with control. Just very pleasing for those of us who did not expect this, and probably also for Trevor Timmins.

[IamCanadiens]

And then there's the wildcard Konyushkov. He's made big strides this year. Ya never know.

[seventeen]

Sorry, I forgot him, but he's definitely in the picture if HuGo can import him.
BTW, I see that hockeydb.com is not showing the 2023/24 stats for KHL players any longer. It just says "Statistics Unavailable". Must be Putin throwing a snit.

[Cranky]

Getting Zegras is going to hurt.

We NEED to put our top 10 pick if we want to get a potential 1C. No team is going to gift us one and it wont be cheap.

First thing first, we need to resign Monahan otherwise we will go into next season with a lot of concern for center position.

[jkr]

I thought I read that Monahan has an agreement with the team that he be traded to a SC contender by the deadline.

If that happens hd may not be back.

[folatre]

Hockey is debatable. For me Zegras is no more of a number one center than Suzuki and honestly if one considers the defensive side of the game, Zegras is less equipped to handle the burden of being a top line pivot than Suzuki.

I prefer to keep a top 5-8 pick if a kid like Lindstrom or Catton is there. No, neither could help in 2024-25 (Catton would not be ready physically and the big boy still lacks the necessary polish to his game to make the jump), but hey one of those two could be a home run down the line.

Yes, Hughes promised Monahan he would move him to a contender. Maybe they reconnect and negotiate something in the summer, but Monahan is getting dealt in the next six weeks.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 19, 2024 18:48:28 GMT -5 folatre said:

Hockey is debatable. For me Zegras is no more of a number one center than Suzuki and honestly if one considers the defensive side of the game, Zegras is less equipped to handle the burden of being a top line pivot than Suzuki.

I prefer to keep a top 5-8 pick if a kid like Lindstrom or Catton is there. No, neither could help in 2024-25 (Catton would not be ready physically and the big boy still lacks the necessary polish to his game to make the jump), but hey one of those two could be a home run down the line.

Yes, Hughes promised Monahan he would move him to a contender. Maybe they reconnect and negotiate something in the summer, but Monahan is getting dealt in the next six weeks.

I hope we can land Lindstrom...

[Cranky]

The problem is that we are developing a slew of prospects at the same time so there isn't a mid twenties defenseman that other teams will covet and give up a great young center.

At this time I don't see Zegras as a dominating center and chances are that neither does Anaheim. THAT is the only reason he would be available.

The FA route is a possibility but I don't think a 10x7 Reinhart is a solution.

We MUST look at the center situation and solve it. As my wife always says "you got to do something, the snow won't shovel itself", just before she goes out there to shovel.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 20, 2024 1:15:00 GMT -5 Cranky said:

The problem is that we are developing a slew of prospects at the same time so there isn't a mid twenties defenseman that other teams will covet and give up a great young center.

At this time I don't see Zegras as a dominating center and chances are that neither does Anaheim. THAT is the only reason he would be available.

The FA route is a possibility but I don't think a 10x7 Reinhart is a solution.

We MUST look at the center situation and solve it. As my wife always says "you got to do something, the snow won't shovel itself", just before she goes out there to shovel.

Suzuki isn't going anywhere and neither is Dach, so if we were to get Zegras, he would be a 3C, which is a waste of talent or you put him as a top six winger with Suze and CC and move Slaf with Dach or you put Zegras with Dach

[seventeen]

Jan 19, 2024 20:33:46 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

Jan 19, 2024 18:48:28 GMT -5 folatre said:

Hockey is debatable. For me Zegras is no more of a number one center than Suzuki and honestly if one considers the defensive side of the game, Zegras is less equipped to handle the burden of being a top line pivot than Suzuki.

I prefer to keep a top 5-8 pick if a kid like Lindstrom or Catton is there. No, neither could help in 2024-25 (Catton would not be ready physically and the big boy still lacks the necessary polish to his game to make the jump), but hey one of those two could be a home run down the line.

Yes, Hughes promised Monahan he would move him to a contender. Maybe they reconnect and negotiate something in the summer, but Monahan is getting dealt in the next six weeks.

I hope we can land Lindstrom...

I saw a collection of videos of Lindstrom by some amateur scout (don't knock those guys, some put a ton of time into their passion). Lots of plays, mostly offensive. I'd have to see more. What I did see didn't make me jump up and clamor for us to pick him. Not that he didn't make good plays and I may be picky here, but something didn't resonate. Maybe it's because he didn't seem to do anything especially creative. He went where you're supposed to go. He skates well. He's big. I saw him not score a lot on the many chances he had. Maybe that's what's bugging me. Or maybe the videos the guy selected weren't representative of his work.

The games I saw Catton play in the U-18's for example, were more impressive. High hockey IQ, deceptively good skater, good hands as well. He scored. Lindstrom has 27-19-46 totals in 32 games and is +12. Catton has 28-37-65 in 40 games and is +7. Medicine Hat, Lindstrom's team, is a strong one, with a .651 win percentage and +61 goal differential. Spokane,, Catton's team, is not good, sporting a .425 win percentage and goal differential of -19. Lindstrom is the 4th leading scorer on his team. Catton is the top guy on his team, followed by a 20 year old 7 points lower and another 20 year old, 18 points less than Catton. My assessment is that Catton is doing more with less. His ppg is slightly higher than Lindstrom's. Where Lindstrom has a clear advantage is in size, 6' 4" 215 lbs to 5' 11" 164 lbs.

Josh Anderson and Joel Armia (most of the time) are also big bodied players. Hockey people say those guys win in the playoffs for you, but I never saw anything from Anderson at least, in the playoffs, that wowed me. He did manage to not miss the empty net when Fleury gave him the puck that time.

I agree that size is necessary in the playoffs. It's a grind. Is a big lug worth more than a smaller, more highly skilled player? How many small players can you get away with?  Henri Richard was as small as they come and he was a warrior.  As an aside, Catton is reported to have strong leadership skills. He was the captain of the U-18 team and he scores important goals. I saw that in the U-18s. So yes, I'm kind of tearing down Mr Lindstrom when he doesn't deserve it. He's from Chetwynd, a small town in the North Peace area of BC (northeast section) where I spent 10 years, so I have a soft spot for him because of that. I sure like what I see of Catton, though. Patrice Bergeron potential if he fills out.