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Post by seventeen on Feb 25, 2024 20:01:21 GMT -5
In fact... trading for less volatile assets is exactly what Bergevin kept on doing. Subban was unpredictable, he was traded for a highly predictable player with a tad less upside. Sorry for digressing from the topic, but we know how much of a narcissist Bergevin is, so trading a highly visible, attention getting guy like PK, for a quiet, innocuous character seems to fit Berg's modus operandi perfectly. I think that played into it more than most of us would expect. |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Feb 25, 2024 20:21:08 GMT -5
This management group values long term projections. I'm willing to bet there are several forward prospects they've been doing their homework on considering that potential draft spot. If there is a player they believe has high long term value, I can see them keeping the pick as the timeline still fits with the core. The value of a key guy on an entry level or early contract is massive in the cap era.
Iginla is a good example of a guy projected as a later draft pick but likely to rise with some teams. The pedigree is there. If his character is like his father's that's a big plus. His development has been strong this year. His size is nice and he is likely still growing at 17. Conversely, that pick could be traded to a team who values Iginla. I could see the Flames paying a premium to pick him. Other teams might really like Connolly or any number of other guys.... Regardless, it’ll be interesting to see what direction the management goes. I’m hoping they keep this pick and package the Flames and Jets picks or something similar.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 25, 2024 20:47:04 GMT -5
Give them what they think they need...
What has the Buffalo GM identified as the problem that keeps them from taking the next step.
Leadership? Ok, i got this young guy Ghule who defines leadership and can be your captain for the next 15 years. Tell me what ails you so i can find your weaknesses and raid your coup.
Would i trade Ghule? Put Cozins on the line and find out. CC? Dach? I don't care as long as long as the team gets better, EVERYONE is trade material.
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Post by Polarice on Feb 26, 2024 8:10:20 GMT -5
I've come to the realization that 99% of the rumours out there are horsecrap. If you hear it, it wont happen. The trades the Habs make are totally off the board, unexpected. If the media is saying we're in talks to get Zegras, we're not in talks to get Zegras.
I was talking to my friend, and as of now he has no idea who the Habs, if anyone, are looking at. He's expecting them to maybe make a small trade before or on the trade deadline, but most of their movement will be done at the draft when they know what they actually have for pick positions.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 26, 2024 8:46:31 GMT -5
Some trades could be real but they have pitfalls.
Mittlestadt...is definatly a 2C but he's also RFA next season and one season away from UFA. If he thinks he's worth PLDonkey contract, he's radioactive. If he thinks he's a 6x8 player, then there is a basis for a trade.
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Post by IamCanadiens on Feb 26, 2024 10:49:45 GMT -5
Some trades could be real but they have pitfalls. Mittlestadt...is definatly a 2C but he's also RFA next season and one season away from UFA. If he thinks he's worth PLDonkey contract, he's radioactive. If he thinks he's a 6x8 player, then there is a basis for a trade. I loved Mittelstadt in the world juniors. Good size and incredible vision. Took him a while to develop as a pro but he looks to be reaching his potential. I think Buffalo would ask a ton for him. So many other questions too including the contract demands you refer to. What are his 'soft skills' like including teamwork? What's his willingness to play in Montreal? Is obtaining a center a priority for the Habs especially at the cost? Would he want to risk playing behind Suz and Dach? Worth kicking tires but I assume he'd be looking for a guaranteed 1st or 2nd line opportunity. I just don't see this happening unless the Sabres are really smitten with one of our sexy prospects like Hutson or Mailloux as obtaining draft picks doesn't really fit with the timeframe of their core......... Your comment that everyone is trade material rings pretty true for me. Whatever it takes to get better....... |
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Post by Cranky on Feb 26, 2024 11:17:05 GMT -5
Some trades could be real but they have pitfalls. Mittlestadt...is definatly a 2C but he's also RFA next season and one season away from UFA. If he thinks he's worth PLDonkey contract, he's radioactive. If he thinks he's a 6x8 player, then there is a basis for a trade. I loved Mittelstadt in the world juniors. Good size and incredible vision. Took him a while to develop as a pro but he looks to be reaching his potential. I think Buffalo would ask a ton for him. So many other questions too including the contract demands you refer to. What are his 'soft skills' like including teamwork? What's his willingness to play in Montreal? Is obtaining a center a priority for the Habs especially at the cost? Would he want to risk playing behind Suz and Dach? Worth kicking tires but I assume he'd be looking for a guaranteed 1st or 2nd line opportunity. I just don't see this happening unless the Sabres are really smitten with one of our sexy prospects like Hutson or Mailloux as obtaining draft picks doesn't really fit with the timeframe of their core......... Your comment that everyone is trade material rings pretty true for me. Whatever it takes to get better....... What Sabres can ask is based on what "Mittens" wants in the future. He's not worth our 1st but he can be worth our Jets 1st plus a Harris. If the illusion is a PLDonkey like return, good luck with that...and move on. This can't be TD trade simply because it takes time to process the discussions with the player and his agent...unless they are already in the process. Plus I think they can sign long term after July 1st. Getting a young ready and proven product is worth a lot in my view. Churning through a ton of prospects with barrels of hope only goes so far. At some point this season or at worse, next season, we need to consolidate and compete. |
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Post by PTH on Feb 26, 2024 12:12:16 GMT -5
I've come to the realization that 99% of the rumours out there are horsecrap. If you hear it, it wont happen. The trades the Habs make are totally off the board, unexpected. If the media is saying we're in talks to get Zegras, we're not in talks to get Zegras. I was talking to my friend, and as of now he has no idea who the Habs, if anyone, are looking at. He's expecting them to maybe make a small trade before or on the trade deadline, but most of their movement will be done at the draft when they know what they actually have for pick positions. I think GMs chitchat more than we realize, but also aren't throwing offers around, either. If you look at the Dach/Romanov series of deals, it was all decided on the morning of the draft, but it depended on Montreal knowing that the Islanders were interested in Romanov, and the rumor mill among GMs spreading the word that Dach was available (and which didn't leak to the public despite many GMs being aware of it). I figure most rumors are conjecture, informed speculation, and leaks designed to get things moving (by agents and GMs). |
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Post by Cranky on Feb 26, 2024 14:24:24 GMT -5
I think GMs chitchat more than we realize, but also aren't throwing offers around, either. If you look at the Dach/Romanov series of deals, it was all decided on the morning of the draft, but it depended on Montreal knowing that the Islanders were interested in Romanov, and the rumor mill among GMs spreading the word that Dach was available (and which didn't leak to the public despite many GMs being aware of it). I figure most rumors are conjecture, informed speculation, and leaks designed to get things moving (by agents and GMs). Your absolutely right on the chit-chat. Running a large company is no fun and when you run into problems, solving them is not an option. They MUST be solved. Who do you turn to for help or a helpful ear? Barby dolls? Alexa? You develop a network of people that can be trusted as much as wolves trust each other. If there is no direct profit one can be reasonably sure that people within the "network" will share and help. I was running 24/7 and since my nightmares in production happened on the late shift, i volunteered myself to run them. Once in a while I would get a call at 3 in the morning from a CEO of a company I was supplying. He would be in some hotel room in Asia and after a meeting, he just wanted to unload his frustrations/anger/exasperation. An hour later, we may or may not have brought peace to the Middle East, but at least for that hour, it was "therapeutic" to talk them through. 80% business, 20% bs. I bet that hockey GMs are doing the same thing. Yes, they are wolves, or at least our GM better be a wolf, but you are not competing every minute of the day. Besides players, they may talk about staff, sales, Buttman, whatever. What is absolutely mandatory is that all conversations are private and nothing ever gets out. Trust is trust and it's absolute. Some think that this is an "old boys club". Not really. It's human nature to reach out and talk to peers about your common experiences. Of course you can also have the situation were wolves are wolves and join up to raid the chicken coup. We usually call those by derogatory names like "politicians". |
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Post by Andrew on Feb 26, 2024 18:58:08 GMT -5
If Elias Pettersson were to be on the market is there any world in which he's a fit in Montreal? I expect not for a couple of reasons: 1. if he's not interested in playing in Vancouver, then moving to a different Canadian market to a team further from contending would be a tough sell for a long-term contract. 2. The Canucks would approach such a trade similar to the Jets with PLD. They'll want to remain competitive by obtaining a top of the lineup forward in return. Our biggest trade chips are first round picks and defenders, which I don't think gets a deal done for EP (unless Hughes can pull off some wizardry and orchestrate a three team deal where Zegras ends up in Vancouver and EP with the Habs - dare to dream).
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Post by seventeen on Feb 26, 2024 19:01:54 GMT -5
Canucks are heavily invested in extending Pettersson. New mgmt is quite different from Benning.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 26, 2024 20:04:09 GMT -5
I'm in a funk right now and relief is thinking about hockey. How's that for crazy...
The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that just tanking to rebuild is stupid. Basically one is trading failure for futures and while it help adds, it's NOT the right way.
I look at the Rangers and they finished down in the celler for a few year after a retool, they are back on top.
Meanwhile the Sabres are swimming in the mudhole for how many years?
No, mudhole swimming with the hope that your just a train loads of prospects will bring you back to the promised land is false.
Hughes needs to target FA for asset additions. Monahan must be a target. As well as any RHD even if beyond our "window". Trying to find the right vets to fill holes will be impossible unless all those accumulated youngsters are on the line for trades. What's the benefit of having Harris and Newhook if you have to give them away a few years later to bolster your cup run?
We need a bigger picture for asset acquisitions that include trading someone like Barron for potential youngish high quality "vets", FA signings as well as as that truckload of youngsters.
That should include the heartless job of putting someone like Ghally and Armia on the waivers. What's the loss if we sign younger, better versions for "free"?
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Post by folatre on Feb 26, 2024 20:09:46 GMT -5
For sure, it would be incredibly disappointing for Vancouver's fans if Pettersson does not sign an extension this summer because that would likely mean management would have to begin talking to teams about what it will take to acquire him.
This is an elite 100 point 1C in his prime. The price in assets paid will be massive. Not that I believe Montreal would be likely to become a serious suitor if, in fact, Vancouver cannot get the Swede signed this summer. However, just to use Habs assets as a template for the haul that team X would have to put on the table, I would say it would have to be equivalent to Guhle or Reinbacher, Dach or Dvorak and Beck, and Montreal's 2025 first rounder.
And the contract required by Petterssen will be massive too. I have no idea if Petterssen wants to play hockey in an American market. I imagine Vancouver is not planning to bring an underwhelming extension offer to the negotiations. Rutherford has to be delusional if he thinks an offer inferior to the contract that Nylander signed would maybe somehow someway be okay with Petterssen's camp. Vancouver must know that the range of 'realism' probably starts at 8 years/$96 million, though it will likely ascend a bit higher.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 26, 2024 20:30:36 GMT -5
I read that there is an offer on the table for 12x8 from the beginning of the season and he hasn't signed.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 26, 2024 20:41:18 GMT -5
I read that there is an offer on the table for 12x8 from the beginning of the season and he hasn't signed. Wow... |
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Post by Cranky on Feb 26, 2024 21:04:01 GMT -5
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 26, 2024 21:47:39 GMT -5
I saw that earlier, that is a big price |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 27, 2024 1:15:27 GMT -5
I read that there is an offer on the table for 12x8 from the beginning of the season and he hasn't signed. Pettersson is kind of a funny guy. Very honest and serious. He has said (and when he says it, you can believe it) that he does not want to negotiate during the season. So he doesn't. The Canucks did make him an offer early on but he wants to wait and the Canucks are going along with that. That doesn't mean they can afford to go without a Plan B. A lot probably depends on how far the Canucks go and if Pettersson thinks they can maintain that level. He wants to win. Which means that it's unlikely he'd want to sign with the Habs, outside of it being 3 hours closer to Sweden than Vancouver. He has one more year under Canucks control after this one, but it might as well be a UFA deadline on July 1. Vancouver will want to have him extended before that, or be planning a trade. The cost to acquire him will be high. He may be the most creative player in the league and he's more than adequate defensively as well. He had 102 points last year and is on the same pace this year. He'll be 26 in November. Right in his prime. If he was a Hab, there would be no end of adulation. The guy is amazing, and he blocks shots. As you can tell he's one of my favourite NHL players. Edit: I just read some of the comments and those guys are the ones we take money from. Stupid doesn't begin to describe them. Vancouver has some really wacko fans, but that contract is probably in the right price range. You have to pay the play drivers and that's exactly what Pettersson does. |
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Post by Polarice on Feb 27, 2024 6:42:09 GMT -5
I've come to the realization that 99% of the rumours out there are horsecrap. If you hear it, it wont happen. The trades the Habs make are totally off the board, unexpected. If the media is saying we're in talks to get Zegras, we're not in talks to get Zegras. I was talking to my friend, and as of now he has no idea who the Habs, if anyone, are looking at. He's expecting them to maybe make a small trade before or on the trade deadline, but most of their movement will be done at the draft when they know what they actually have for pick positions. I think GMs chitchat more than we realize, but also aren't throwing offers around, either. If you look at the Dach/Romanov series of deals, it was all decided on the morning of the draft, but it depended on Montreal knowing that the Islanders were interested in Romanov, and the rumor mill among GMs spreading the word that Dach was available (and which didn't leak to the public despite many GMs being aware of it). I figure most rumors are conjecture, informed speculation, and leaks designed to get things moving (by agents and GMs). 100% correct....I'm sure there are GM's that talk to each other almost daily. Like Cranky mentioned, who else are they going to turn to for help and advice. I don't expect much to happen until the Draft or free agency. What free agents do you think the Habs have a chance at getting? Reinhart would be amazing, but unlikely...he's going to be looking for $9 million I would think. Would we be interested in signing Monahan to a 2 or 3 year deal? What about Kane...he would fit in nicely with our top two lines...sign him for 2 years at $4 per. Or, are we better going the trade route? Can we land someone like Zegras for a first and a defensive prospect? I'm thinking the Habs brass are going to have a blast for the next year or two putting this team together, there are many options we we have the riches to make almost anything happen. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 27, 2024 11:10:19 GMT -5
I think GMs chitchat more than we realize, but also aren't throwing offers around, either. If you look at the Dach/Romanov series of deals, it was all decided on the morning of the draft, but it depended on Montreal knowing that the Islanders were interested in Romanov, and the rumor mill among GMs spreading the word that Dach was available (and which didn't leak to the public despite many GMs being aware of it). I figure most rumors are conjecture, informed speculation, and leaks designed to get things moving (by agents and GMs). 100% correct....I'm sure there are GM's that talk to each other almost daily. Like Cranky mentioned, who else are they going to turn to for help and advice. I don't expect much to happen until the Draft or free agency. What free agents do you think the Habs have a chance at getting? Reinhart would be amazing, but unlikely...he's going to be looking for $9 million I would think. Would we be interested in signing Monahan to a 2 or 3 year deal? What about Kane...he would fit in nicely with our top two lines...sign him for 2 years at $4 per. Or, are we better going the trade route? Can we land someone like Zegras for a first and a defensive prospect? I'm thinking the Habs brass are going to have a blast for the next year or two putting this team together, there are many options we we have the riches to make almost anything happen. And hopefully a top 5 pick this year should help a lot |
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 27, 2024 11:34:42 GMT -5
Regarding Petterson, It is going to cost you Suzuki or Caulfield.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 27, 2024 13:15:51 GMT -5
On a Pette trade, I'd hug and say goodbye to CC but not Suzuki.
What I would not do is give away 2-3 top players to get one back. It defeats the purpose of the rebuild and not even Pette is going to get to 100 points with Ghally and Armia as his wingers.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 27, 2024 14:21:57 GMT -5
Reinhart would be amazing, but unlikely...he's going to be looking for $9 million I would think. Would we be interested in signing Monahan to a 2 or 3 year deal? What about Kane...he would fit in nicely with our top two lines...sign him for 2 years at $4 per. I'm really hoping Florida resigns Reinhart at a ridiculous number. Sam is a very smart player, and likely a 30 goal, 75 point scorer. His shooting % would normally be in the 15% range, which is really good...REALLY good. This season he's at 25%. Seriously. ONe of every 4 shots of his is going in. Can you spell Unsustainable? He's scored a bunch of really important goals for the Panthers this season, in games that would have been losses otherwise. Florida is this year's Bruins. They can't seem to do anything wrong. Yet. So please Bill Zito....Sam is worth at least $10MM a year for 8 years. You can't do without that (cough) 50 goal pace. |
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Post by Cranky on Feb 27, 2024 16:16:24 GMT -5
Back in the day when BC was real and not a ghost, I wanted the Habs to get...
Reinhart
Montour
Bennet
Dunn
These guys were in their mid-late 20s and if BargainBin listened, we wouldn't be rebuilding the rebuild.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 27, 2024 18:54:55 GMT -5
Back in the day when BC was real and not a ghost, I wanted the Habs to get... Reinhart Montour Bennet Dunn These guys were in their mid-late 20s and if BargainBin listened, we wouldn't be rebuilding the rebuild. But we'd still have burgerbrain as GM... |
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