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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 28, 2024 21:59:29 GMT -5
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 28, 2024 22:39:27 GMT -5
Why do I think Savard would be a good fit for the Leafs?
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 28, 2024 23:05:45 GMT -5
Why do I think Savard would be a good fit for the Leafs? If he goes to the leafs Hughes better take them to the cleaners |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 29, 2024 13:33:21 GMT -5
This was an underwhelming return to me, which only increases my respect for Kent Hughes. Craig Conroy displayed his rookieness with this deal. Bottom line, IMO, he gave away Tavev for nothing. He took on a B prospect (the guy was behind Arber on the Hamilton Bulldogs in Arber's final year) and kept 50% of Tanev's salary and got a second round pick which can be anywhere from 50 to 63 (or thereabouts). Retention of salary alone is worth something and I completely disregard Grushnikov. He's an AHL body. Mitigating this poor return is the fact Tanev had a list of teams he would not accept a trade to and that may have limited Conroy's negotiations. Would Vancouver and TO have been on that list? No, I think Conroy just blinked, something Hughes just doeesn't do. You don't want to pay my price for Savard, or Evans or Kovacevic? Fine, I don't need to trade them and later in the playoffs when you find yourself short a Savard, Evans or Kovacevic, think about how you were cheap back at the TDL. The best negotiators are those who are willing to walk away and Hughes has shown himself to be that kind of guy. No one thought anyone was paying a first for Monahan, but we knew what a healthy Monahan is worth and a first is the least of it. Winnipeg's not complaining. Sean has played 5 games I think, and has 6 goals. I expect a very quiet TDL from Hughes. GM's around the league appear to be extremely cheap this year and so be it. Hopefully the sellers will just hold off and those cheap GM's will have to rethink their positions. The biggest takeaway I get from this deal is that Conroy and Fitzgerald have no idea what their CAP space is worth. It's as if they gifted Nill anything he wanted simply in order to make this crappy deal work. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 29, 2024 13:41:39 GMT -5
Why do I think Savard would be a good fit for the Leafs? If he goes to the leafs Hughes better take them to the cleaners Savard was a hot topic on Basu and Godin's "Notebook" podcast Monday. The conclusion was that if there's a 2nd round pick on the table, to take it, but anything less than that, just hold on to DS as his value to the kids and chemistry on the Habs is worth more than a 3rd round pick or equivalent. Now that's the right approach. Set a realistic price and hold onto it. There's an analogy involving selling your house (as 17 disperses more of his faux wisdom). You can set some arbitrarily high price which gives you much leeway to come down and still get what you want. This works at times, so is not completely foolish. Or you can set a realistic asking price and simply not move much off that price. The benefit to the second tactic is that you're more likely to get more people interested in viewing your home and making an offer. The former strategy turns away those who are looking for a home in a certain price range and you've boosted it above that range. Hughes is a follower of the latter, but you need discipline and patience to go that route. |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Feb 29, 2024 15:17:17 GMT -5
This was an underwhelming return to me, which only increases my respect for Kent Hughes. Craig Conroy displayed his rookieness with this deal. Bottom line, IMO, he gave away Tavev for nothing. He took on a B prospect (the guy was behind Arber on the Hamilton Bulldogs in Arber's final year) and kept 50% of Tanev's salary and got a second round pick which can be anywhere from 50 to 63 (or thereabouts). Retention of salary alone is worth something and I completely disregard Grushnikov. He's an AHL body. Mitigating this poor return is the fact Tanev had a list of teams he would not accept a trade to and that may have limited Conroy's negotiations. Would Vancouver and TO have been on that list? No, I think Conroy just blinked, something Hughes just doeesn't do. You don't want to pay my price for Savard, or Evans or Kovacevic? Fine, I don't need to trade them and later in the playoffs when you find yourself short a Savard, Evans or Kovacevic, think about how you were cheap back at the TDL. The best negotiators are those who are willing to walk away and Hughes has shown himself to be that kind of guy. No one thought anyone was paying a first for Monahan, but we knew what a healthy Monahan is worth and a first is the least of it. Winnipeg's not complaining. Sean has played 5 games I think, and has 6 goals. I expect a very quiet TDL from Hughes. GM's around the league appear to be extremely cheap this year and so be it. Hopefully the sellers will just hold off and those cheap GM's will have to rethink their positions. The biggest takeaway I get from this deal is that Conroy and Fitzgerald have no idea what their CAP space is worth. It's as if they gifted Nill anything he wanted simply in order to make this crappy deal work. I dunno. The Sharangovich trade didn't look good at the time either and now one could easily argue that the Flames won that trade given his play without even considering the 3rd round pick. Conroy clearly got something he likes in this one too. Further he didn't lose an asset for nothing because he waited too long. Time will tell...... |
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Post by jkr on Feb 29, 2024 15:46:28 GMT -5
This was an underwhelming return to me, which only increases my respect for Kent Hughes. Craig Conroy displayed his rookieness with this deal. Bottom line, IMO, he gave away Tavev for nothing. He took on a B prospect (the guy was behind Arber on the Hamilton Bulldogs in Arber's final year) and kept 50% of Tanev's salary and got a second round pick which can be anywhere from 50 to 63 (or thereabouts). Retention of salary alone is worth something and I completely disregard Grushnikov. He's an AHL body. Mitigating this poor return is the fact Tanev had a list of teams he would not accept a trade to and that may have limited Conroy's negotiations. Would Vancouver and TO have been on that list? No, I think Conroy just blinked, something Hughes just doeesn't do. You don't want to pay my price for Savard, or Evans or Kovacevic? Fine, I don't need to trade them and later in the playoffs when you find yourself short a Savard, Evans or Kovacevic, think about how you were cheap back at the TDL. The best negotiators are those who are willing to walk away and Hughes has shown himself to be that kind of guy. No one thought anyone was paying a first for Monahan, but we knew what a healthy Monahan is worth and a first is the least of it. Winnipeg's not complaining. Sean has played 5 games I think, and has 6 goals. I expect a very quiet TDL from Hughes. GM's around the league appear to be extremely cheap this year and so be it. Hopefully the sellers will just hold off and those cheap GM's will have to rethink their positions. The biggest takeaway I get from this deal is that Conroy and Fitzgerald have no idea what their CAP space is worth. It's as if they gifted Nill anything he wanted simply in order to make this crappy deal work. I dunno. The Sharangovich trade didn't look good at the time either and now one could easily argue that the Flames won that trade given his play without even considering the 3rd round pick. Conroy clearly got something he likes in this one too. Further he didn't lose an asset for nothing because he waited too long. Time will tell...... I agree. Sharangovich is about 6 years younger and over a million bucks cheaper than Toffoli and their numbers are pretty close. I dont watch a lot of Flames games but was anybody expecting a 1st for Tanev? |
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Post by folatre on Feb 29, 2024 18:13:46 GMT -5
I have no idea who this Russian kid is. If he is worthwhile project, then the return will look fine. But who knows.
As for the odd footnote of the trade, what the heck are Devils' fans thinking? Fitzgerald has sat on his hands all season while the team limped along, so yesterday he jumped into the mix and brought home a 2026 4th round pick.
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Post by jkr on Feb 29, 2024 19:03:01 GMT -5
And if the Devils are lucky that guy will suit up as a regular around 2030.😀
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 29, 2024 19:32:51 GMT -5
And if the Devils are lucky that guy will suit up as a regular around 2030.😀 And the Devils take on 50% of the cap hit... for a 4th rounder? Seems low |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 29, 2024 23:46:15 GMT -5
And if the Devils are lucky that guy will suit up as a regular around 2030.😀 And the Devils take on 50% of the cap hit... for a 4th rounder? Seems low Fitzgerald also can't value CAP worth a damn. Sometimes I wonder if these guys are just buddies and help each other out now and then. There's no explaining this deal from a Calgary standpoint. There was some pundit speculation that Edmonton offered up their first but it came requiring Calgary to take on a bad contract. The speculation name was Ceci. If that's the case, $3.25MM for this year and next for Ceci, I take that all day long. Ceci has some use, even if he's hardly a favourite of mine. If you consider him a zero, you're paying $3.25MM next year to move up about 30 spots in the draft. Slam dunk. You go for it. It's that simple an analysis. Calgary obviously thinks, unlike almost everyone else, that Grushnikov actually has some value. The condition 3rd is irrelevant. Low probability and even if you get it, it'll be near 100 on the list. Whoopee. I just don't get the thinking in the Calgary GM office. A friend of mine who is a Canuck fan, asked me what happened to Conroy between the Lindholm deal and the Dallas one. He would have preferred negotiating with the Dallas version. |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Mar 1, 2024 9:07:43 GMT -5
And the Devils take on 50% of the cap hit... for a 4th rounder? Seems low Fitzgerald also can't value CAP worth a damn. Sometimes I wonder if these guys are just buddies and help each other out now and then. There's no explaining this deal from a Calgary standpoint. There was some pundit speculation that Edmonton offered up their first but it came requiring Calgary to take on a bad contract. The speculation name was Ceci. If that's the case, $3.25MM for this year and next for Ceci, I take that all day long. Ceci has some use, even if he's hardly a favourite of mine. If you consider him a zero, you're paying $3.25MM next year to move up about 30 spots in the draft. Slam dunk. You go for it. It's that simple an analysis. Calgary obviously thinks, unlike almost everyone else, that Grushnikov actually has some value. The condition 3rd is irrelevant. Low probability and even if you get it, it'll be near 100 on the list. Whoopee. I just don't get the thinking in the Calgary GM office. A friend of mine who is a Canuck fan, asked me what happened to Conroy between the Lindholm deal and the Dallas one. He would have preferred negotiating with the Dallas version. If they don't have their 2025 draft pick they may value 3-4 million to sign someone, a 2nd rounder and a prospect more than a late 1st round pic. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 1, 2024 13:55:56 GMT -5
I dunno. The Sharangovich trade didn't look good at the time either and now one could easily argue that the Flames won that trade given his play without even considering the 3rd round pick. Conroy clearly got something he likes in this one too. Further he didn't lose an asset for nothing because he waited too long. Time will tell...... Please stop throwing logic and reason into my takes. It's embarrassing to have to agree. Sharangovich was a great pickup (who I have liked for a while).  |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 1, 2024 13:57:08 GMT -5
I have no idea who this Russian kid is. If he is worthwhile project, then the return will look fine. But who knows. As for the odd footnote of the trade, what the heck are Devils' fans thinking? Fitzgerald has sat on his hands all season while the team limped along, so yesterday he jumped into the mix and brought home a 2026 4th round pick. Plan the Parade! |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 1, 2024 14:03:01 GMT -5
Fitzgerald also can't value CAP worth a damn. Sometimes I wonder if these guys are just buddies and help each other out now and then. There's no explaining this deal from a Calgary standpoint. There was some pundit speculation that Edmonton offered up their first but it came requiring Calgary to take on a bad contract. The speculation name was Ceci. If that's the case, $3.25MM for this year and next for Ceci, I take that all day long. Ceci has some use, even if he's hardly a favourite of mine. If you consider him a zero, you're paying $3.25MM next year to move up about 30 spots in the draft. Slam dunk. You go for it. It's that simple an analysis. Calgary obviously thinks, unlike almost everyone else, that Grushnikov actually has some value. The condition 3rd is irrelevant. Low probability and even if you get it, it'll be near 100 on the list. Whoopee. I just don't get the thinking in the Calgary GM office. A friend of mine who is a Canuck fan, asked me what happened to Conroy between the Lindholm deal and the Dallas one. He would have preferred negotiating with the Dallas version. If they don't have their 2025 draft pick they may value 3-4 million to sign someone, a 2nd rounder and a prospect more than a late 1st round pic. Agreed, and it's always possible Grushnikov makes the team and the net savings is about $2.5MM, which isn't meaningless. Ceci's not that bad, however, and moving up 30 spots is an improvement in probabilities. You can also negotiate for Edmonton's 2025 pick rather than this year's. |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Mar 1, 2024 15:38:59 GMT -5
If they don't have their 2025 draft pick they may value 3-4 million to sign someone, a 2nd rounder and a prospect more than a late 1st round pic. Agreed, and it's always possible Grushnikov makes the team and the net savings is about $2.5MM, which isn't meaningless. Ceci's not that bad, however, and moving up 30 spots is an improvement in probabilities. You can also negotiate for Edmonton's 2025 pick rather than this year's. The other thing I wondered was Conroy's bigger picture with Hanafin and Markstrom. Are the only decent offers he's getting for those 2 involving salary retention? That'd crank up the value of salary |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Mar 1, 2024 15:40:51 GMT -5
I have no idea who this Russian kid is. If he is worthwhile project, then the return will look fine. But who knows. As for the odd footnote of the trade, what the heck are Devils' fans thinking? Fitzgerald has sat on his hands all season while the team limped along, so yesterday he jumped into the mix and brought home a 2026 4th round pick. Plan the Parade! |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Mar 1, 2024 15:43:03 GMT -5
I dunno. The Sharangovich trade didn't look good at the time either and now one could easily argue that the Flames won that trade given his play without even considering the 3rd round pick. Conroy clearly got something he likes in this one too. Further he didn't lose an asset for nothing because he waited too long. Time will tell...... Please stop throwing logic and reason into my takes. It's embarrassing to have to agree. Sharangovich was a great pickup (who I have liked for a while). My bad! logic smogic! |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 1, 2024 21:11:18 GMT -5
Agreed, and it's always possible Grushnikov makes the team and the net savings is about $2.5MM, which isn't meaningless. Ceci's not that bad, however, and moving up 30 spots is an improvement in probabilities. You can also negotiate for Edmonton's 2025 pick rather than this year's. The other thing I wondered was Conroy's bigger picture with Hanafin and Markstrom. Are the only decent offers he's getting for those 2 involving salary retention? That'd crank up the value of salary Sheesh. More logic and good reasoning. That may indeed play a role. Hanifin less so (and he's the most marketable of the two) because his contract expires July 1. Markstrom has 2 more years at $6M per. That might be a very tough sell without a ton of retention and probably using a 3rd party. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 2, 2024 8:48:26 GMT -5
The other thing I wondered was Conroy's bigger picture with Hanafin and Markstrom. Are the only decent offers he's getting for those 2 involving salary retention? That'd crank up the value of salary Sheesh. More logic and good reasoning. That may indeed play a role. Hanifin less so (and he's the most marketable of the two) because his contract expires July 1. Markstrom has 2 more years at $6M per. That might be a very tough sell without a ton of retention and probably using a 3rd party. I wonder if Hughes could retain salary on markstrom to get the top 10 protected removed from the Flames 1st? |
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Post by jkr on Mar 2, 2024 18:06:55 GMT -5
Why do I think Savard would be a good fit for the Leafs? If he goes to the leafs Hughes better take them to the cleaners Toronto may have interest in Savard because he is a rightie. I just read an article on Sportsnet that stated that in the Vegas game Toronto played 6 left shot D men. They had no right shot guys available. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 2, 2024 22:52:21 GMT -5
If he goes to the leafs Hughes better take them to the cleaners Toronto may have interest in Savard because he is a rightie. I just read an article on Sportsnet that stated that in the Vegas game Toronto played 6 left shot D men. They had no right shot guys available. I have a good sized, unreliable RHD that won’t cost you much. |
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