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Post by Skilly on Mar 8, 2024 13:43:13 GMT -5
For a 3rd round pick which can become a 2 nd rounder
Woo Hoo!!
Street clothes is gone. Love it Hughes!
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 8, 2024 13:48:56 GMT -5
Another retention spot that carries over to next season. That leaves HuGo with only one next year with some obvious contracts to move.
At least that three goalie mess is finally over.
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Post by folatre on Mar 8, 2024 13:54:18 GMT -5
Yeah, this is solid enough. Montreal is retaining and will have to ride out 2024-25 with only one retention spot available. But it feels good to get a decent pick for Allen.
I wonder how many games Allen would have to play to make it a 2nd?
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Post by seventeen on Mar 8, 2024 13:59:43 GMT -5
Had to be resolved. Curious as to how many games Allen needs to play for the third to upgrade. It’s a decent return and if it ends up a second, it’s a very good return.
New Jersey did ok too. Allen is a good teammate and can help in the development of Devils’ goalie prospects in dealing with bumps and heaves in the road. Jake can give NJ average goaltending and that may be all they need.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 8, 2024 14:03:39 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Mar 8, 2024 14:06:53 GMT -5
2025. Even better.
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Post by drkcloud on Mar 8, 2024 14:19:47 GMT -5
Good soldier for the Habs, but his time had come here. Hope he does great with the Devils.
Decent job by Hughes, a 3rd being a potential 2nd is the maximum return this player could bring IMO
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Post by Tankdriver on Mar 8, 2024 14:31:38 GMT -5
Another retention spot that carries over to next season. That leaves HuGo with only one next year with some obvious contracts to move. At least that three goalie mess is finally over. Yeah that worries my a bit as well. I wasn't sold on retaining for Petry at the time. I'm trying to figure out who it will get used on next year. With my guess being Savard, Armeia or Dvorak. I think we would need 2 retention spots for those three to move next year. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Mar 8, 2024 16:09:15 GMT -5
Another retention spot that carries over to next season. That leaves HuGo with only one next year with some obvious contracts to move. At least that three goalie mess is finally over. Yeah that worries my a bit as well. I wasn't sold on retaining for Petry at the time. I'm trying to figure out who it will get used on next year. With my guess being Savard, Armeia or Dvorak. I think we would need 2 retention spots for those three to move next year. He was a good guy. Hate to see good guys go. Galligher is a great guy. We overestimate the value of our guys and as Keyen's says, the market establishes the true value of a part time goaltender who is under .900 and his best years are behind him. Father time is cruel and always wins. |
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 8, 2024 16:20:00 GMT -5
It's not as if Allen was acquired with a savior expectation. He had some solid years in St. Louis...but he was always a second-tier #1....or platoon at best.
He ran the gamut from stealing games (which gradually occurred much less often) to allowing first-shot goals. Never knew what to expect.
I wish him luck.
As had been said above...a good soldier and a good return.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 8, 2024 16:24:56 GMT -5
If Allen went for this then Hughes must have stuck firm on Savard
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Post by Cranky on Mar 8, 2024 17:03:58 GMT -5
We are paying his salary to play for the Devils...for a 3rd round return. Not much of a win here. I would rather take a 4th and no salary retention.
Of course what i want is to package off for a better prospects but that seems more elusice then making nothingburger trades.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 8, 2024 17:37:43 GMT -5
We are paying his salary to play for the Devils...for a 3rd round return. Not much of a win here. I would rather take a 4th and no salary retention. Of course what i want is to package off for a better prospects but that seems more elusice then making nothingburger trades. I wanted him gone, we need to see what Primeau can do in a regular rotation and I don't care about Molsons money. If he plays 40 games it becomes a second which can be part of a better package next year when we are fighting for a playoff spot... |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 8, 2024 17:48:48 GMT -5
We are paying his salary to play for the Devils...for a 3rd round return. Not much of a win here. I would rather take a 4th and no salary retention. Of course what i want is to package off for a better prospects but that seems more elusice then making nothingburger trades. I wanted him gone, we need to see what Primeau can do in a regular rotation and I don't care about Molsons money. If he plays 40 games it becomes a second which can be part of a better package next year when we are fighting for a playoff spot... Pass the hopium barrel....  Unless we sign back Monahan AND a healthy Dach AND add at least one or two top 6 youngster, we're living on hopium... There was no breakthrough youngsters this season and what we are telling ourselves is that the rest are going to get better because of the extra season. Maybe and just as likely, maybe not. We need serious breakthroughs AND signings to get past the gravitational pull of the basement. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Mar 8, 2024 18:21:03 GMT -5
I wanted him gone, we need to see what Primeau can do in a regular rotation and I don't care about Molsons money. If he plays 40 games it becomes a second which can be part of a better package next year when we are fighting for a playoff spot... Pass the hopium barrel.... Unless we sign back Monahan AND a healthy Dach AND add at least one or two top 6 youngster, we're living on hopium... There was no breakthrough youngsters this season and what we are telling ourselves is that the rest are going to get better because of the extra season. Maybe and just as likely, maybe not. We need serious breakthroughs AND signings to get past the gravitational pull of the basement. Hear hear...or here here. I concur. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 8, 2024 18:22:39 GMT -5
I wanted him gone, we need to see what Primeau can do in a regular rotation and I don't care about Molsons money. If he plays 40 games it becomes a second which can be part of a better package next year when we are fighting for a playoff spot... Pass the hopium barrel.... Unless we sign back Monahan AND a healthy Dach AND add at least one or two top 6 youngster, we're living on hopium... There was no breakthrough youngsters this season and what we are telling ourselves is that the rest are going to get better because of the extra season. Maybe and just as likely, maybe not. We need serious breakthroughs AND signings to get past the gravitational pull of the basement. I'm pretty sure if an oppty for another Dach comes up, Hughes will do it... he's moved picks and assets to get those types of guys, he'll do it again... this tradevof Allen was a nothing trade, if he can use that pick to get something better he will... let's see what happens on draft day.... What would you have suggested Hughes do to get a "serious breakthrough"? Its really easy to say do something... its another to get something done... Who would you have targeted and what would you have given up? |
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Post by jkr on Mar 8, 2024 18:58:52 GMT -5
After 2 straight 60 point seasons Suzuki is on pace for 80 points. I'd call that a breakthrough, especially on a team with one scoring line.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 8, 2024 19:08:29 GMT -5
After 2 straight 60 point seasons Suzuki is on pace for 80 points. I'd call that a breakthrough, especially on a team with one scoring line. If Dach has Newhook and Roy on either side of him next year, there is your second line... I like Roy and think he is top 6 material. |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 8, 2024 19:15:20 GMT -5
Pass the hopium barrel.... Unless we sign back Monahan AND a healthy Dach AND add at least one or two top 6 youngster, we're living on hopium... There was no breakthrough youngsters this season and what we are telling ourselves is that the rest are going to get better because of the extra season. Maybe and just as likely, maybe not. We need serious breakthroughs AND signings to get past the gravitational pull of the basement. I'm pretty sure if an oppty for another Dach comes up, Hughes will do it... he's moved picks and assets to get those types of guys, he'll do it again... this tradevof Allen was a nothing trade, if he can use that pick to get something better he will... let's see what happens on draft day.... What would you have suggested Hughes do to get a "serious breakthrough"? Its really easy to say do something... its another to get something done... Who would you have targeted and what would you have given up? Mittèlstadt for one. Our late first and what more? Sabres didn't need Byram or his three serious concussions. They simply wanted to trade Mittel beford they had to give him a long term contract. Apparently everyone in the known universe knew the Sabres wanted to trade Mittel but hey, we have that coveted 30th pick and that 17% of getting a guy who will play 100 games in the NHL. We have Dach but no one said we can't play Dach at wing. Or 3 good centers. Or trade more draft choices to add MORE wingers to shore up our offence. I would put on the line ALL our draft choices for the next 3 years in order to push forward our time table. Or we can keep ordering Panama size tankers of hopium... |
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Post by folatre on Mar 8, 2024 19:19:11 GMT -5
There will be more liquidity in the system next season so I think a guy like Savard can be moved easily without retention. His contract is a relative bargain for a steady guy who can play second pair minutes with no problem and kill penalties.
Hopefully, the glass man, Dvorak, has a respectable season and gets traded at the deadline. Maybe he will be the retention piece.
Armia? Who knows, maybe he plays well and is tradable. Maybe he checks out again and just disappears from North America with a whimper.
Returning to the Allen trade, I encourage perspective here. Retention always means paying a guy to go to work and do his best for some other team. Not using retention slots does not necessarily make you better. I get it that using one on Allen means that management has one fewer to use in 2024-25 but there is no guarantee that Dvorak is ever going to be healthy or that good Armia does not revert back to bad Armia and skate slowly into oblivion. So for me grabbing a third round pick for the use of 2024-25 retention slot is not bad business. And by the way, now that I know the conditionality of the New Jersey pick, I would say it is slightly better than 50-50 that Montreal pockets a second rounder. For me the Devils are going to keep one of their young goalies (Daws or Schmid) on the roster. Neither one has ever played more than 25 games in an NHL season, so the safe/conservative assumption in this case is that Allen will reach the 40 game floor and given what a talented roster New Jersey has, the second safe/conservative assumption is that yes the Devils will be back in the playoffs in 2024-25.
The only way this decision looks terrible is if Primeau turns out not to be a solid backup.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 8, 2024 19:37:22 GMT -5
I have no faith in Primeau and Monty is barely a starter. I'm not saying that Allen was a keeper, but I am saying that we are basement level in goaltending.
Fowler is years away, if ever...and no relief in sight.
Spencer Knight anyone? Hes becomming a concern for the Panthers and his development rate, particularly his fat salary. He may be a more expensive Primeau...or he can breakout.
Others?
Unless of course one is convinced Monty is going to take us to the promised land,
Oh wait, a solution may cost our precious draft choices.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 8, 2024 19:44:00 GMT -5
We are paying his salary to play for the Devils...for a 3rd round return. Not much of a win here. I would rather take a 4th and no salary retention. Of course what i want is to package off for a better prospects but that seems more elusice then making nothingburger trades. If Jake plays 40 games next year (which he could achieve providing the Devils don't go crazy and sign some other hopium, and none of the younger Schmid or Daws breaks out) and the Devils make the playoffs, the 3rd becomes a 2nd rounder in a deep 2025 draft. Hughes is always trying to throw a wrinkle into trades. |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 8, 2024 19:55:23 GMT -5
We are paying his salary to play for the Devils...for a 3rd round return. Not much of a win here. I would rather take a 4th and no salary retention. Of course what i want is to package off for a better prospects but that seems more elusice then making nothingburger trades. If Jake plays 40 games next year (which he could achieve providing the Devils don't go crazy and sign some other hopium, and none of the younger Schmid or Daws breaks out) and the Devils make the playoffs, the 3rd becomes a 2nd rounder in a deep 2025 draft. Hughes is always trying to throw a wrinkle into trades. |
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Post by drkcloud on Mar 8, 2024 20:00:15 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure if an oppty for another Dach comes up, Hughes will do it... he's moved picks and assets to get those types of guys, he'll do it again... this tradevof Allen was a nothing trade, if he can use that pick to get something better he will... let's see what happens on draft day.... What would you have suggested Hughes do to get a "serious breakthrough"? Its really easy to say do something... its another to get something done... Who would you have targeted and what would you have given up? Mittèlstadt for one. Our late first and what more? Sabres didn't need Byram or his three serious concussions. They simply wanted to trade Mittel beford they had to give him a long term contract. Apparently everyone in the known universe knew the Sabres wanted to trade Mittel but hey, we have that coveted 30th pick and that 17% of getting a guy who will play 100 games in the NHL. We have Dach but no one said we can't play Dach at wing. Or 3 good centers. Or trade more draft choices to add MORE wingers to shore up our offence. I would put on the line ALL our draft choices for the next 3 years in order to push forward our time table. Or we can keep ordering Panama size tankers of hopium... How do you know he didn't try to get Mittelstadt. I'm sure a division trade would not be a preference. They may not have needed Byram but he is a valuable asset for future moves. We have no such known valuable assets, certainly none that we would be happy losing. As you say that late round pick is a long shot and ain't getting the job done |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 8, 2024 20:17:58 GMT -5
Mittèlstadt for one. Our late first and what more? Sabres didn't need Byram or his three serious concussions. They simply wanted to trade Mittel beford they had to give him a long term contract. Apparently everyone in the known universe knew the Sabres wanted to trade Mittel but hey, we have that coveted 30th pick and that 17% of getting a guy who will play 100 games in the NHL. We have Dach but no one said we can't play Dach at wing. Or 3 good centers. Or trade more draft choices to add MORE wingers to shore up our offence. I would put on the line ALL our draft choices for the next 3 years in order to push forward our time table. Or we can keep ordering Panama size tankers of hopium... How do you know he didn't try to get Mittelstadt. I'm sure a division trade would not be a preference. They may not have needed Byram but he is a valuable asset for future moves. We have no such known valuable assets, certainly none that we would be happy losing. As you say that late round pick is a long shot and ain't getting the job done Byram was not a need for the Sabres, it was simply the best value they could get. Byram also has 3 concussions and a concern. Avs management is not stupid. They did not trade a young top 2D for a 2C. More like giving up high potential but damaged good for a proven 2C. So it was a straight up trade for value, what value beats Byram? Anyone not named Dach, Suzuki, Guhle and CC is on the line and not our 1st. Newhook? Harris? Sabres are just looking for a value return. We know that Mittel was available, actually well known around the league...we know that this was a straight up value trade...and we know he is not a Hab. As to why, we can't know because we don't know how Hughes values the trade. |
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Post by drkcloud on Mar 8, 2024 21:05:39 GMT -5
Sabres mgmt is not stupid either. MIT is a top 10 pick on the verge of an offensive breakout. I'd suggest it would take our top 10 pick this year to get him, particularly as we are in the same division. Guhle + Winnipegs pick maybe.. Pepple would lose their mind. anyway it was never gonna happen
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Post by Skilly on Mar 8, 2024 21:22:16 GMT -5
Getting a third round pick for Jake Allen is outstanding. The fact he got rid of him at all is a bloody miracle, let alone getting a team that really didn't need him to take him.
Jake "Let them" All-en won 41 games in 124 starts over 4 years for the Habs. He has a save percentage under 0.900. He was putrid. Good soldier or not, fans from every corner of the country joked about the first shot on him going in.
Now for something people aren't used to from me ... optimism
Young players that had breakthrough seasons:
Suzuki showed he can be a point per game player. And he is top 30 in the league in scoring
Caufield showed he is more than a one trick pony. He is on pace for 65 points, without getting 40 goals. He might not get 40 goals, but here is the thing. Last year he was on pace for 46 goals and 18 assists (64 points). This year, a supposed off year for him, he is on pace for 25 goals and 40 assists. Math being math, they are the SAME season
How can any not say that Slafkovsky hasn't broke through? He has 31 points, but he has 24 points in his last 33 games. Even the most optimistic among us thought his ceiling was 50 points at the start of the season
I'd argue that Newhook has broke through as well. He career high is 33 points, last year he got 30. On the Habs, playing with less talented players than on those Av teams (Joshua Roy excluded) he has 20 points in less than half a season.
Next year, we are going to first have to figure out the logjam on defense. Some have to get traded, we have like 12 that can play now. A full year of Dach (if that beast exists) and whoever we draft ... but one thing we have now is a GM that will make trades, and finds ways to get players. I also think Fowler is closer than some think, and that's another reason why Hughes traded Allen.
It looks to be we are 2 forwards away from being a solid playoff team.
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Post by jkr on Mar 8, 2024 21:34:45 GMT -5
That 40 game threshold for Allen, does it start now or next season?
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Post by Tankdriver on Mar 8, 2024 21:39:20 GMT -5
That 40 game threshold for Allen, does it start now or next season? Next Season. But NJ also has to make the playoffs for us to get the second. |
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Post by PTH on Mar 9, 2024 0:19:56 GMT -5
That 40 game threshold for Allen, does it start now or next season? Next Season. But NJ also has to make the playoffs for us to get the second. I can't figure out what happens if he gets moved during next season, though... ---- Retention slots are weird, in that for expiring contracts, it's possible to get 3d party retention for a 5th or so, so if we're getting 2nd rounders for Dvorak or Savard, it's well worth the trouble. It's for a guy like Armia that it'll be more of a pain, if no slots are available in a year and he is playing well enough to be tradable. That being said, you can't keep slots in reserve forever, might as well use them and figure things out if another would've been useful to have. I suspect Hughes kept this slot for Savard until it was clear no one was going to meet his asking price, and then at 50% it was fairly easy to move Allen. |
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