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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 9, 2024 11:46:37 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Apr 9, 2024 13:03:27 GMT -5
Shoulders take a long time to heal. Caufield is just a recent example. That, unfortunately, is not good news about X.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 9, 2024 13:09:04 GMT -5
I really think this team needs to focus on players developing their shoulder muscles... we have waaay too many shoulder injuries
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Post by jkr on Apr 9, 2024 13:55:37 GMT -5
Didnt this shoulder issue happen to him last year after that fight with Desharnais?
It's a concerning trend.
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Post by halihab on Apr 9, 2024 14:42:47 GMT -5
Didnt this shoulder issue happen to him last year after that fight with Desharnais? It's a concerning trend. I believe that was his right shoulder. Not good to have both shoulders operated on so early in his career. I had both my shoulders injured and never fully recovered. |
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 9, 2024 16:33:09 GMT -5
Didnt this shoulder issue happen to him last year after that fight with Desharnais? It's a concerning trend. I believe that was his right shoulder. Not good to have both shoulders operated on so early in his career. I had both my shoulders injured and never fully recovered. Ya, it is different shoulder as it is his left whereas last year was his right. Not sure what to make of this. Perhaps freak injuries, still not clear how he hurt the shoulder in the TB amateur hour attack on a hit X didn't even deliver. But could also be some sort of genetic weakness in his shoulders. Perhaps surgery can strengthen the weakness? But not good to think he can injure his should in any fight he gets into. Talk about an achilles heel  But even if he can't fight i'm still good with his hits and other aspects of his game. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 9, 2024 16:42:40 GMT -5
I believe that was his right shoulder. Not good to have both shoulders operated on so early in his career. I had both my shoulders injured and never fully recovered. Ya, it is different shoulder as it is his left whereas last year was his right. Not sure what to make of this. Perhaps freak injuries, still not clear how he hurt the shoulder in the TB amateur hour attack on a hit X didn't even deliver. But could also be some sort of genetic weakness in his shoulders. Perhaps surgery can strengthen the weakness? But not good to think he can injure his should in any fight he gets into. Talk about an achilles heel But even if he can't fight i'm still good with his hits and other aspects of his game. Romanov was an effective hitter eventhough he couldn't fight because of facial injuries |
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 23, 2024 14:45:05 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Apr 23, 2024 16:39:44 GMT -5
On Basu and Godin's Notebook, they mentioned Xhekaj keeping his injury to himself. It was all because of the competitive aspect on the team. He was fighting for playing time against Guhle, Matheson, Harris and Struble. He didn't want to fall out of that competition.
It was not the wisest decision because a) none of those other guys can do what Xhekaj does and b) he's a darn good player with some real skills and should believe in himself. If, for some crazy reason, the Habs choose other guys over Arber, he can still make a really good living on another team. But we're keeping him. Period.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 23, 2024 16:53:18 GMT -5
I'd be pissed if they moved him... he's the X factor...
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Post by Skilly on Apr 23, 2024 22:43:23 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight , he even played in the AHL with an injured shoulder. That's just wonderful.
The last time we had a player hide his injury for personal gain, he ended up reinjurying himself in the playoffs, and never really was the same. And we are still paying him 10.5 million to stay home.
He is a warrior, but this was a stupid, selfish decision
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Post by Tankdriver on Apr 23, 2024 23:10:00 GMT -5
I can see his point of view. The guy was literally working at Costco a few years ago and got send down to the AHL this year. I am guessing he has a two way contract so he wants to maximize his earnings and guarantee his roster spot. It's not like he is making 3 million a year either.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 23, 2024 23:25:27 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight , he even played in the AHL with an injured shoulder. That's just wonderful. The last time we had a player hide his injury for personal gain, he ended up reinjurying himself in the playoffs, and never really was the same. And we are still paying him 10.5 million to stay home. He is a warrior, but this was a stupid, selfish decision Of course it's selfish and you'd do the same thing. Hockey is a competitive sport but it's also a job and the examples of someone getting injured and opening the door for someone else to take their spot are legion. I don't have an answer for how to handle it. You want Arber to know he is highly regarded, but you also can't promise him a position. Maybe just saying that if he continues playing like he did in his last stint, and keeps improving, there's no reason he can't be part of the team moving forward. |
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 24, 2024 11:03:47 GMT -5
That's a tough decision for the kid. A lot riding on it both postion on team and money. The fact is he could still play with the injury. Was he at his best? No. But he could still play, and be better than some of the other dmen. I suppose i would ask my doctor, if i keep playing do i risk making it worse or some long term injury. If the answer is "No", then i can see playing.
What he may have failed to understand is that if he is not at his best, and is not fighting, the coaches, who are unaware of the injury, may think he's not as good as they thought and he's benched, sent down, or traded. Many of us were wondering why he was not fighting in certain situations. Can you imagine if the Hab fan base got on him and even starting booing him for backing down on a fight? Coming clean with those around you is usually the best action. It not only helps them understand your situation, it helps them give you advice.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Apr 24, 2024 11:16:55 GMT -5
On Basu and Godin's Notebook, they mentioned Xhekaj keeping his injury to himself. It was all because of the competitive aspect on the team. He was fighting for playing time against Guhle, Matheson, Harris and Struble. He didn't want to fall out of that competition. It was not the wisest decision because a) none of those other guys can do what Xhekaj does and b) he's a darn good player with some real skills and should believe in himself. If, for some crazy reason, the Habs choose other guys over Arber, he can still make a really good living on another team. But we're keeping him. Period. They fired several of the medical/training staff last season due to the trend over the past two seasons of leading the league in man games lost. Hugo mentioned they were also trying to protect players from themselves (saying they were good to go when they weren’t). Quite clearly, this is still a work in progress. Part of the tough hockey guy culture that is hard to break I guess. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 24, 2024 11:43:30 GMT -5
On Basu and Godin's Notebook, they mentioned Xhekaj keeping his injury to himself. It was all because of the competitive aspect on the team. He was fighting for playing time against Guhle, Matheson, Harris and Struble. He didn't want to fall out of that competition. It was not the wisest decision because a) none of those other guys can do what Xhekaj does and b) he's a darn good player with some real skills and should believe in himself. If, for some crazy reason, the Habs choose other guys over Arber, he can still make a really good living on another team. But we're keeping him. Period. They fired several of the medical/training staff last season due to the trend over the past two seasons of leading the league in man games lost. Hugo mentioned they were also trying to protect players from themselves (saying they were good to go when they weren’t). Quite clearly, this is still a work in progress. Part of the tough hockey guy culture that is hard to break I guess. Or fear of job loss... after enjoying 1st class (NHL) who wants to go back to coach (AHL) or cargo (ECHL) |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 24, 2024 12:11:53 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight , he even played in the AHL with an injured shoulder. That's just wonderful. The last time we had a player hide his injury for personal gain, he ended up reinjurying himself in the playoffs, and never really was the same. And we are still paying him 10.5 million to stay home. He is a warrior, but this was a stupid, selfish decision Of course it's selfish and you'd do the same thing. Hockey is a competitive sport but it's also a job and the examples of someone getting injured and opening the door for someone else to take their spot are legion. I don't have an answer for how to handle it. You want Arber to know he is highly regarded, but you also can't promise him a position. Maybe just saying that if he continues playing like he did in his last stint, and keeps improving, there's no reason he can't be part of the team moving forward. Yeah, that argument don’t fly For starters, Arber would be getting paid regardless if he was playing in the AHL or not. AND if he divulged his injury while at the NHL level he’d get paid his NHL salary through insurance - so he actually cost himself money Also, we all saw how good he was. He had a built in excuse (his injury) to why he wasn’t performing up to that standard. He was in ZERO jeopardy of losing his spot “Marty, my shoulder is bad. I can’t do X and Y”. Done, he gets it fixed and comes back stronger. You think Kirby Dach’s position on this team is in jeopardy? He hasn’t done squat yet for the team when you look at it. Finally, everyone would be singing a different tune if we discovered that he played injured and then suffered a career ending injury because he was playing while injured. That’s why the team has team doctors. If Arber got any medical advice from outside the team, and used that advice to continue playing, I’m sure the NHL insurance underwriters would have something to say about that. ****** Edit I’m reminded of the hullabaloo that was caused between the NHL, NHLPA, and the insurance providers when Brisebois was racing cars, and Malakhov was skiing. |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 24, 2024 13:32:53 GMT -5
Yeah, that argument don’t fly For starters, Arber would be getting paid regardless if he was playing in the AHL or not. AND if he divulged his injury while at the NHL level he’d get paid his NHL salary through insurance - so he actually cost himself money Also, we all saw how good he was. He had a built in excuse (his injury) to why he wasn’t performing up to that standard. He was in ZERO jeopardy of losing his spot “Marty, my shoulder is bad. I can’t do X and Y”. Done, he gets it fixed and comes back stronger. You think Kirby Dach’s position on this team is in jeopardy? He hasn’t done squat yet for the team when you look at it. Finally, everyone would be singing a different tune if we discovered that he played injured and then suffered a career ending injury because he was playing while injured. That’s why the team has team doctors. If Arber got any medical advice from outside the team, and used that advice to continue playing, I’m sure the NHL insurance underwriters would have something to say about that. ****** Edit I’m reminded of the hullabaloo that was caused between the NHL, NHLPA, and the insurance providers when Brisebois was racing cars, and Malakhov was skiing. I think it flies quite well. Imagine yourself, in whatever occupation you're in, with 4 or 5 guys right behind you, perhaps able to do the job as well as you, but your bosses aren't yet sure. They're working 10 hours a day. You're sick and not able to work 10 hours a day, but if you don't, your bosses will notice and you may not have the same standing and salary that you currently have. Forget the rest because none of it is relevant. It's all about you vs the other guys, even if some are your friends. In our own, non sporting lives, that situation is not critical because there are protections, etc., but in pro sports, it's a fact of life. If you are replaced, even for a short time, and some other unproven guy comes in and impresses, you suffer the consequences. We have our own example of Jayden Struble. None of us (and even Habs management, I'm guessing) thought he would actually be better in the NHL than the AHL. Well, it's a numbers game and suddenly, if you're the guy left standing when the music stops, you're out. That was what scared Xhekaj and it's perfectly understandable. Players want to play....have to play, and stay part of the team. Still better to be truthful and risk it, but players do things like that all the time. Does management know who is injured and how badly? Unless they're told by the player, only if their performance falls off a cliff. If it drops 5-10%, they might think that's normal variance and will sort itself out. |
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Post by jkr on Apr 24, 2024 16:16:11 GMT -5
Didn't Monahan do this last season - try to play through an injury and end up in a worse place with another injury?
And how does this help keep his job? If the injury is serious enough to require surgery then how can you play through it a high level and are you really helping the team? It was just a really bad idea .
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Post by Skilly on Apr 24, 2024 17:45:32 GMT -5
Yeah, that argument don’t fly For starters, Arber would be getting paid regardless if he was playing in the AHL or not. AND if he divulged his injury while at the NHL level he’d get paid his NHL salary through insurance - so he actually cost himself money Also, we all saw how good he was. He had a built in excuse (his injury) to why he wasn’t performing up to that standard. He was in ZERO jeopardy of losing his spot “Marty, my shoulder is bad. I can’t do X and Y”. Done, he gets it fixed and comes back stronger. You think Kirby Dach’s position on this team is in jeopardy? He hasn’t done squat yet for the team when you look at it. Finally, everyone would be singing a different tune if we discovered that he played injured and then suffered a career ending injury because he was playing while injured. That’s why the team has team doctors. If Arber got any medical advice from outside the team, and used that advice to continue playing, I’m sure the NHL insurance underwriters would have something to say about that. ****** Edit I’m reminded of the hullabaloo that was caused between the NHL, NHLPA, and the insurance providers when Brisebois was racing cars, and Malakhov was skiing. I think it flies quite well. Imagine yourself, in whatever occupation you're in, with 4 or 5 guys right behind you, perhaps able to do the job as well as you, but your bosses aren't yet sure. They're working 10 hours a day. You're sick and not able to work 10 hours a day, but if you don't, your bosses will notice and you may not have the same standing and salary that you currently have. Forget the rest because none of it is relevant. It's all about you vs the other guys, even if some are your friends. In our own, non sporting lives, that situation is not critical because there are protections, etc., but in pro sports, it's a fact of life. If you are replaced, even for a short time, and some other unproven guy comes in and impresses, you suffer the consequences. We have our own example of Jayden Struble. None of us (and even Habs management, I'm guessing) thought he would actually be better in the NHL than the AHL. Well, it's a numbers game and suddenly, if you're the guy left standing when the music stops, you're out. That was what scared Xhekaj and it's perfectly understandable. Players want to play....have to play, and stay part of the team. Still better to be truthful and risk it, but players do things like that all the time. Does management know who is injured and how badly? Unless they're told by the player, only if their performance falls off a cliff. If it drops 5-10%, they might think that's normal variance and will sort itself out. That a complete red herring They have gauranteed contracts. I do not. They have 6 figure minimum salary contracts. I do not. The reason they have those built into their contracts is to compensate them for potential career ending injuries. If I was making $828,000, I think I would be open with my employer. I also think you are not being honest if you think (and you think Arber thinks) that there are 6 players that could replace him, to the degree that the Habs management would not give him an honest shot in training camp. This was a shoulder injury. Now imagine he lied about a concussion, and suffered life alternating repercussions by playing through it. Sorry, I'm not ok with that, and it can't be justified just because you like a player. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 24, 2024 17:58:12 GMT -5
Didn't Monahan do this last season - try to play through an injury and end up in a worse place with another injury? And how does this help keep his job? If the injury is serious enough to require surgery then how can you play through it a high level and are you really helping the team? It was just a really bad idea . From an asset management perspective, he risked one of the assets of the Montreal Canadiens. In attempting to protect his spot, he could have had a career ending injury and the team rebuild take a big step backwards. Luckily, the team had no chance to make the playoffs, cause just imagine if they were in the playoff hunt, and didn't make it by 1 or 2 points, and Arber's injury was divulged after he made a bonehead play, or a weakass clearing attempt that caused them to lose late in the season. Playing, does not gaurantee your spot, if by playing your play degrades (as evidenced by his demotion to the AHL). It baffles me it would not be disclosed at that point |
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Post by frozone on Apr 25, 2024 0:22:35 GMT -5
Didn't Monahan do this last season - try to play through an injury and end up in a worse place with another injury? And how does this help keep his job? If the injury is serious enough to require surgery then how can you play through it a high level and are you really helping the team? It was just a really bad idea . From an asset management perspective, he risked one of the assets of the Montreal Canadiens. In attempting to protect his spot, he could have had a career ending injury and the team rebuild take a big step backwards. Luckily, the team had no chance to make the playoffs, cause just imagine if they were in the playoff hunt, and didn't make it by 1 or 2 points, and Arber's injury was divulged after he made a bonehead play, or a weakass clearing attempt that caused them to lose late in the season. Playing, does not gaurantee your spot, if by playing your play degrades (as evidenced by his demotion to the AHL). It baffles me it would not be disclosed at that point Meh, I’m not so peeved about it, just happy that it sounds like he’s learned his lesson, and hopefully his teammates will be encouraged to also come forward when hurt. We have to remember that this wasn’t just Arber doing something dumb. This is hockey culture, unfortunately. I guarantee you that he concealed his injury because he’s seen other players do the same thing. Sure, there’s varying degrees of guys risking their health all over the league, but ultimately its all been part of the NHL’s dna for decades and has been celebrated as heroic, especially in the playoffs. And in Arber’s case we have to remember that he’s a developing player comparing himself to other developing players. If he’s not playing, he’s losing ground, regardless of which league he’s in. It’s no excuse, but all the ingredients are there to encourage other young players to take the same dumb risks. This story will happen again and again and again. |
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Post by seventeen on Apr 25, 2024 0:32:50 GMT -5
That a complete red herring They have gauranteed contracts. I do not. They have 6 figure minimum salary contracts. I do not. The reason they have those built into their contracts is to compensate them for potential career ending injuries. If I was making $828,000, I think I would be open with my employer. I also think you are not being honest if you think (and you think Arber thinks) that there are 6 players that could replace him, to the degree that the Habs management would not give him an honest shot in training camp. This was a shoulder injury. Now imagine he lied about a concussion, and suffered life alternating repercussions by playing through it. Sorry, I'm not ok with that, and it can't be justified just because you like a player. Liking Xhekaj has nothing to do with this discussion. Let's look at your points. First, of course they have guaranteed contracts...until next season and then Xhekaj could easily be a Costco employee again (or not as I got the impression his immediate supervisor had reservations, but I digress). He goes from $828,333 to nothing. Most employees don't face quite that level of risk. Second- Are there 6 guys that can replace him? That was my point about the competition. There are 6 guys, looking at all the defensemen and if you narrow it down to the left side, there's Matheson, Guhle, Struble, Harris, and Engstrom. Counting Arber, that's 6 guys fighting for 3 spots cause no one likes to sit. It used to be five until Xhekaj got hurt and Struble came in and impressed. Let's not add in the RHD guys because that adds another 5 guys. So yes, there was tons of competition and that was primarily what drove him to hide the injury. No doubt he hoped it would heal on it's own. A concussion would have been more recognizable to the medical staff. I bet the shoulder injury wasn't that bad, as it was the original shoulder he refrained from talking about. The more recent injury would have been more apparent. I never thought it was a smart move, but I can understand a 22 year old in a highly competitive environment thinking it might be best to keep quiet about it until he realized it was riskier to do so than come clean. Frozone makes some good points above. And that's all I'm going to discuss on this matter. |
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Post by Cranky on Apr 27, 2024 19:02:25 GMT -5
I wonder how he got another shoulder injury. Was it in a fight?
I've been harping about X getting some boxing lessons. Trying to wrestle someone while avoiding getting punched can easily overextended his shoulder.
I've had an unfortunate incident of someone taking photos of my wife and me. I asked what he was doing, he told me it's a free country and instead of laying him out, I wrestled for his camera phone. Even if the guy was 50 pounds smaller then me it didn't go as planned. A quick right would of been much faster.
This is no different in principle with X. Stop trying to wrestle your opponenent and duck away, it can put your arm and shoulders in an awkward position.
It doesn't matter how many surgeries he has, he needs to learn to protect and stay within the limits of his body.
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But even if he can't fight i'm still good with his hits and other aspects of his game.
