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Post by habsorbed on May 17, 2024 1:37:04 GMT -5
Wonderful watching 'the jerks' and their fans go down to the Rags tonight!
Anyone shedding any tears over the Canes departure? So happy that Waddell & Co are now toast. And they can blame much of it on signing KK. KK provided 1 assist in 11 playoff games and was a -2, the worst on the team. And they're paying him $5 million. Wonder if it has occured to them that instead of paying a 4th liner $5 million they could have used the money for a player that might have got them to the Cup?
After all the trolling the Canes and their fans did after they "nabbed" KK from the Habs, I hope they're realizing how dumb a move that was. The irony is that MB going after Aho made sense, altho MB should have offered more; while Waddell going after KK for some retribution was just plain dumb.
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Post by Polarice on May 17, 2024 5:29:24 GMT -5
I had the Canes in my pool.  I didn't mind the trolling....we started it, so it's was hard to complain when they did it to us. Besides we got the last laugh when they actually signed KK. |
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Post by jkr on May 17, 2024 9:21:40 GMT -5
I wouldn't blame Waddell for the offer sheet. It was probably done under the direction of an owner whose feelings were hurt.
We should be trolling Bergevin & Timmons for choosing him over Tkachuk, Hughes, Dobson, Bouchard etc.
That 3OA pick turned into Dvorak. 🙁
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Post by habsorbed on May 17, 2024 10:06:31 GMT -5
I don't think anyone looks good on this one; least of all KK. I've tried to see if the Canes or fans media is criticizing the move but nothing so far.
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Post by Cranky on May 17, 2024 12:08:13 GMT -5
How can i troll what Carolina did when BargainBin picked KK. If he picked Tckachuk, we would be looking at contention at least a year earlier.
You can't celebrate the winner of dumb and dumber...
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Post by Andrew on May 17, 2024 12:15:23 GMT -5
KK is a bit of a strange case. He appeared to really be finding his game last season and into this one. He put up a respectable 43 points last season and started this year with 13 points in his first 14 games. Following that he put up 15 points in 79 games, including season and playoffs.
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Post by seventeen on May 17, 2024 13:33:28 GMT -5
The Canes' loss is due to the same thing that has plagued them every year...namely goaltending that isn't up to snuff. Early in the 3rd, Anderson has the puck trapped along the post and fails to cover it with his glove. Kreider swats at it and it trickles over the line. That's a kick to the gonads on every other Cane player. Later there was a relatively weak wrister from the blue line that he may or may not have been screened on, but there was a lot of open space between he and the shooter and no one in front of him. Anderson craters in stressful situation and it happened again. This is not a short sample any more.
KK was fine. Early in the game he got around a dman on the left wing, centred it to Noesen and the guy just had to ram it home and he missed it entirely. The Canes just weren't good enough, but Kotkaniemi was low down on the fault chart. Yes, he also didn't contribute much, but we have our own KK in Josh Anderson who us costing more and giving us less. And don't get me started on Drouin. Or Gallagher for all of last year. We can get trolled just as easily.
It's time we put the KK thing aside. There's a NEW Management sign on the Bell Centre roof.
Having New York progress is actually good, though. If Florida puts Boston away (highly likely) we'll have two goon teams playing each other. Both big and hit a lot. Neither is going to take any crap and there will be lots of crap floating around. It's the perfect recipe for injuries galore.
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Post by seventeen on May 17, 2024 13:36:39 GMT -5
How can i troll what Carolina did when BargainBin picked KK. If he picked Tckachuk, we would be looking at contention at least a year earlier. You can't celebrate the winner of dumb and dumber... Given Tkachuk's team success record, not picking him might have been a stroke of luck. Six years with the Sens and not a whiff of a playoff spot. And he's their captain. Such leadership. I wouldn't be surprised if (given normal injury luck) we are closer to a playoff spot than Ottawa next season. |
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Post by habsorbed on May 19, 2024 19:57:11 GMT -5
Read an article indicating Canes are contemoplating a buy our of KK which woukld be the wise move as it would only cost them $1.5 million for a few years. Apparently the hold up is the ownership and management are worried about the egg all over their face after all their media hype of how they "masterfully" played MB.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 19, 2024 20:57:29 GMT -5
Read an article indicating Canes are contemoplating a buy our of KK which woukld be the wise move as it would only cost them $1.5 million for a few years. Apparently the hold up is the ownership and management are worried about the egg all over their face after all their media hype of how they "masterfully" played MB. They'll save 20 mill... that's not chicken feed for dundon |
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Post by Skilly on May 20, 2024 17:50:15 GMT -5
Read an article indicating Canes are contemoplating a buy our of KK which woukld be the wise move as it would only cost them $1.5 million for a few years. Apparently the hold up is the ownership and management are worried about the egg all over their face after all their media hype of how they "masterfully" played MB. It'll cost $835,000 a year for 12 years. KK is under 25, so it will only cost one third to buy him out. |
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Post by folatre on May 20, 2024 20:34:08 GMT -5
It makes a lot of sense to buy him out. Perhaps it is recency bias to conclude Kotkaniemi is nothing more than a fourth liner, though in fairness to Brind'Amour the kid played like one this season/playoffs. However, even if he rebounds and solidifies into something like a solid 3C, $4.8 million long-term for a third liner only makes sense if the player is an elite 3C and frankly I do not see Kotkaniemi checking all those boxes.
Carolina needs to give a number of key forwards and d-men big raises (not to mention the confounding situation in net), so no matter how embarrassing it feels it is just not logical to have Kotkaniemi eating serious cap for another six seasons when the timing is right for a relatively painless exit strategy.
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Post by seventeen on May 20, 2024 21:33:28 GMT -5
It makes a lot of sense to buy him out. Perhaps it is recency bias to conclude Kotkaniemi is nothing more than a fourth liner, though in fairness to Brind'Amour the kid played like one this season/playoffs. However, even if he rebounds and solidifies into something like a solid 3C, $4.8 million long-term for a third liner only makes sense if the player is an elite 3C and frankly I do not see Kotkaniemi checking all those boxes. Carolina needs to give a number of key forwards and d-men big raises (not to mention the confounding situation in net), so no matter how embarrassing it feels it is just not logical to have Kotkaniemi eating serious cap for another six seasons when the timing is right for a relatively painless exit strategy. Not a comment on KK, but aren't we overselling Brind'amour? The guy has had tremendous winning percentage during the regualar season and then blows up in the playoffs. Maybe he's just never had the goaltending. His teams keep getting decimated, though, via Dundon's philosophy and policies. This summer, they'll lose Necas, and he's a big play driver. |
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Post by habsorbed on May 21, 2024 1:46:54 GMT -5
It makes a lot of sense to buy him out. Perhaps it is recency bias to conclude Kotkaniemi is nothing more than a fourth liner, though in fairness to Brind'Amour the kid played like one this season/playoffs. However, even if he rebounds and solidifies into something like a solid 3C, $4.8 million long-term for a third liner only makes sense if the player is an elite 3C and frankly I do not see Kotkaniemi checking all those boxes. Carolina needs to give a number of key forwards and d-men big raises (not to mention the confounding situation in net), so no matter how embarrassing it feels it is just not logical to have Kotkaniemi eating serious cap for another six seasons when the timing is right for a relatively painless exit strategy. It makes a lot of sense. But talk the emotion of "revenge" taking over common sense when Dundon and Wadell decided to make KK the offer. A buy out would confirm and epitomize the faults in letting one's sentiments lead one into an unwise decision. And, as I've said, it may very well have cost them a Cup the last few years. |
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Post by seventeen on May 21, 2024 13:18:54 GMT -5
Here's what I could find out about Tom Dundon with a brief Google search. He started his empire by cofounding (drum roll) a sub prime auto financing firm. Yes, not just an auto finance firm (like the old GMAC), but a sub prime auto financing firm. Those are the guys who convince a customer who uses paycheque financing services that they can absolutely afford a car. That company was bought out by Santander (big Spanish bank). Dundon made a smart move, however, by taking some of his return in the form of a 10% equity position in the new company, which was spun a few years later and went public, netting $8 billion. Lots of hard work on his part, naturally. Anyway, we can agree he is smart enough to gamble on the success of a new enterprise, but also cut throat enough to start a sub prime auto financing company. This is equivalent to Vlad conscripting all his street people to fight for Mother Russia in Ukraine. It gives us a window into his character. Would he be the kind to be vindictive? Chuckle. It might also explain why he has almost the right idea on how to build a championship team. Yes, you should not overpay players, but he doesn't make the distinction that sometimes you have to overpay some guys. There are some players you need to keep. We can all agree that the Canes could really use a second line centre like Vincent Trochek. And like my brother and I love to joke, "You idiots, you had him and you let him go". After all, you can't pay a guy more than the amount your ego says he deserves. Unless you're shivving some GM you have a grudge with. The really, stupendously silly part of all this is that Bergevin was idiotic in making up that offer sheet. It was a gift to Dundon and he should have seen it that way. Clearly, though, it was likely $1MM more than Dundon wanted to pay. Suck it up buttercup. Who is the real Tom Dundon? The guy who because a billionaire because of Santander, or the guy who preys on the less fortunate of the world?
The Trochek example is something Hab fans need to keep in mind when they consider trade proposals involving Xhekaj. We don't want to be in the position of needing a guy we had, but traded away.
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Post by habsorbed on May 24, 2024 11:58:20 GMT -5
Here's what I could find out about Tom Dundon with a brief Google search. He started his empire by cofounding (drum roll) a sub prime auto financing firm. Yes, not just an auto finance firm (like the old GMAC), but a sub prime auto financing firm. Those are the guys who convince a customer who uses paycheque financing services that they can absolutely afford a car. That company was bought out by Santander (big Spanish bank). Dundon made a smart move, however, by taking some of his return in the form of a 10% equity position in the new company, which was spun a few years later and went public, netting $8 billion. Lots of hard work on his part, naturally. Anyway, we can agree he is smart enough to gamble on the success of a new enterprise, but also cut throat enough to start a sub prime auto financing company. This is equivalent to Vlad conscripting all his street people to fight for Mother Russia in Ukraine. It gives us a window into his character. Would he be the kind to be vindictive? Chuckle. It might also explain why he has almost the right idea on how to build a championship team. Yes, you should not overpay players, but he doesn't make the distinction that sometimes you have to overpay some guys. There are some players you need to keep. We can all agree that the Canes could really use a second line centre like Vincent Trochek. And like my brother and I love to joke, "You idiots, you had him and you let him go". After all, you can't pay a guy more than the amount your ego says he deserves. Unless you're shivving some GM you have a grudge with. The really, stupendously silly part of all this is that Bergevin was idiotic in making up that offer sheet. It was a gift to Dundon and he should have seen it that way. Clearly, though, it was likely $1MM more than Dundon wanted to pay. Suck it up buttercup. Who is the real Tom Dundon? The guy who because a billionaire because of Santander, or the guy who preys on the less fortunate of the world?
The Trochek example is something Hab fans need to keep in mind when they consider trade proposals involving Xhekaj. We don't want to be in the position of needing a guy we had, but traded away.
So Waddell is moving on, likely CJB as, unlike HuGo, Dundon gave Waddell permission to speak to CBJ. Wonder how much the KK decision played into Dundon's decision to let Waddell go - scrape that egg from your face  . I'm assuming this is all about money for Waddell as Carolina would seem a better place and organization to be particularly if the Cup is the goal.. |
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Post by seventeen on May 24, 2024 13:18:26 GMT -5
Ah, the politics of hockey. I believe I've gone into it before, but I am wrong about Don Waddell. I'm not sure he's a good GM because he's never had the chance to prove it, but I thought he was terrible in the past, without realizing he always had one hand tied behind his back. In Atlanta, the owners treated the Thrashers like Cinderella, with the MLB Braves and NBA Hawks being the ugly sisters who got all the attention ($$$). Inn Carolina, Waddell was more like a marionette, dangling on Tom Dundon's strings. Dundon is extremely hands on. Don't think any decisions that involve money get made without him having a fingerprint on it. The KK deal?, all Dundon I'm convinced. Waddell is too professional to pull off that kind of stunt. Sometimes you just have to swallow your tongue and do what you're told, no matter how much you disagree with it. I had to do that on several occasions (and didn't on one occasion, which got my wrist slapped, but that's a story for a beer evening) and that's simply life. You get treated as if YOU made that decision, even if you vehemently disagreed. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a scapegoat! I wonder how Dundon feels about needing a 2C just like Vincent Trochek and knowing he was too cheap to keep him.
I listened to a podcast with Waddell where he was telling stories of his career and I understood better why he looked like a dumb GM. He's never had the chance to look good. In Columbus, if that's where he's going, I hope the owners leave him alone to do his job. They could sure use someone with a good head on their shoulders.
Meanwhile Eric Tulsky, Mr. Analytics, takes over in Carolina for now. Good luck, Eric. Get that emergency exit prepared.
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Post by folatre on May 24, 2024 18:51:42 GMT -5
Brind'Amour, as well as all of the coaches and staff just got 50-60 percent raises (at least that is what I think I heard on NHL Network, Stu Grimson), so probably Donnie Waddell figured what the eff, if I can make more money in Columbus so be it. Tulsky is a first time GM, which particularly in the context of Carolina implies for me that he will be making less money than Waddell was.
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Post by jkr on May 24, 2024 20:26:58 GMT -5
So Is Waddell to Columbus a done deal? And did he give the coaches raises as a going away a present?
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Post by folatre on May 24, 2024 20:52:29 GMT -5
No, I do not believe there is any confirmation that Waddell and John Davidson shook hands on a deal.
And given what is widely known about Dundon being a micromanager at the top of that organization, I would feel comfortable surmising that Brind'Amour (and his agent if he has one) had to negotiate directly with the owner given that the head coach was digging in and not just accepting what the club felt that it should compensate him. And perhaps once the owner relented and kept a great coach and all of his coaches/staff, Dundon simply had no appetite whatsoever for negotiating with Waddell in order to extend him.
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Post by habsorbed on May 24, 2024 21:04:22 GMT -5
No, I do not believe there is any confirmation that Waddell and John Davidson shook hands on a deal. And given what is widely known about Dundon being a micromanager at the top of that organization, I would feel comfortable surmising that Brind'Amour (and his agent if he has one) had to negotiate directly with the owner given that the head coach was digging in and not just accepting what the club felt that it should compensate him. And perhaps once the owner relented and kept a great coach and all of his coaches/staff, Dundon simply had no appetite whatsoever for negotiating with Waddell in order to extend him. i suspect CBJ will announce Waddell this weekend! Another possibility is that Waddell was pissed that he could have won a Cup this year, or last, if he wasn't forced to sign KK. That extra $5 million could have landed a nice addition, particularly in goal instead of 'Never Won Anything Anderson" who they are paying $3.4 million. Talk about you get what you pay for. |
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Post by seventeen on May 25, 2024 1:40:13 GMT -5
Brind'Amour, as well as all of the coaches and staff just got 50-60 percent raises (at least that is what I think I heard on NHL Network, Stu Grimson), so probably Donnie Waddell figured what the eff, if I can make more money in Columbus so be it. Tulsky is a first time GM, which particularly in the context of Carolina implies for me that he will be making less money than Waddell was. Dundoon is the epitome of cheap billionaires. He can afford to pay his people the going rate, he simply doesn't. It's pretty hard to build a winning culture that way. Employees (Players and execs) tend to leave after they're fed up enough. |
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. I'm assuming this is all about money for Waddell as Carolina would seem a better place and organization to be particularly if the Cup is the goal..