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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 3, 2024 13:44:34 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Chevaldayoff hangs up at that point. But maybe I'm overvaluing McGroarty. McG ain't going to the Jets Dev camp... looks bad on them... they need to move him. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 3, 2024 14:05:01 GMT -5
Adding a pick somewhere from the 3rd to 5th. I think they want a prospect of equal value. McGroarty was drafted 14th so they're looking at Guhle (16th),or Mailloux (31st but a higher value). Or Hage that we just drafted at 21. I don't believe they're interested in middle picks or Barron or I think it would have happened already. Hughes has said he's not interested in going sideways.. so guys like Guhle are a nonstarter. Both guys seem entrenched in their positions and beliefs. Cheveldayoff didn't give up PLD until his price was met. I don't see this trade happening When we start comparing players based on where they were drafted, I think it's best to do a re-draft first. One example is Cole Caufield. We got him at 15 but if that 2019 draft was redone today, where would he have gone? He'd be ahead of Kakko, Turcotte, Broberg, Podkolzin, Soderstrom, York and Knight. That's 7 guys, so he'd be 8th at worst and he'd likely be in a group with Boldy and Zegras based on team preferences. I might prefer Boldy ahead of him, but it would be close. In Guhle's case, 2017, a re-draft would have Guhle ahead of Drysdale, Holtz, Quinn, Rossi, Perfetti, Askarov, Lundell, Holloway. Dawson Mercer might move ahead of Guhle, or not. So that's 8 guys, which puts Guhle in 8th position. In addition to the re-draft, you also have to factor in the quality of the draft. To use an extreme example, consider the 1999 draft, where the picks after #3 Henrik Sedin, were.....Pavel Brendl, Tim Connelly, Brian Finley, Kris Beech, Taylor Pyatt, Jamie Lundmark, Branislav Meszei, Oleg Saprykin etc. I won't go any further because I'll just bore you. What was the value of any pick after the Sedin's? This year, 1999 may have been the worst ever. Guhle's draft year is looking average. |
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Post by Polarice on Jul 3, 2024 14:16:01 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Chevaldayoff hangs up at that point. But maybe I'm overvaluing McGroarty. From what I know, they project him either as a 3rd line forward on a contending team or maybe a 2nd line forward on a rebuilding type team. Two way forward, needs to strengthen his skating to keep up but has decent hockey IQ and a decent shot. Winnipeg fan sites are wanting Mailloux instead of Baron. I'm not that excited over McGroarty, but if we can get him cheap I can see him playing on the Habs 3rd line. |
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Post by Cranky on Jul 3, 2024 18:55:32 GMT -5
Adding a pick somewhere from the 3rd to 5th. I think they want a prospect of equal value. McGroarty was drafted 14th so they're looking at Guhle (16th),or Mailloux (31st but a higher value). Or Hage that we just drafted at 21. I don't believe they're interested in middle picks or Barron or I think it would have happened already. Hughes has said he's not interested in going sideways.. so guys like Guhle are a nonstarter. Both guys seem entrenched in their positions and beliefs. Cheveldayoff didn't give up PLD until his price was met. I don't see this trade happening Chevy can blow it out his tailpipe if he thinks he's getting Mailioux or Hage, never mind Guhle. If I'm Hughes, I'm sayings thanks and move on to something else before i say something I'll regret. Moving on.... |
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Post by folatre on Jul 3, 2024 21:15:54 GMT -5
I think Winnipeg would have settled (i.e. accepted reality) to trade him straight up with Buffalo for their 11th, Philly 12th, Minnesota 13th or San Jose 14th. And for whatever those teams got focused in on a certain player and did not see McGroarty being superior. Playing along with my assumption that Chevaldayoff was working the phones hard with those clubs, did Kevyn Adams, Briere, Billy Guerin, and Grier make the wrong choice? No, of course not.
Sam Dickinson could well have a bigger impact on a club over the decade than McGroarty. For me Buium will be a more impactful player than the University of Michigan center. Luchanko, well, I am not so sure and frankly I have no idea what the heck Keith Jones and Briere were thinking when they passed on Buium. And Helenius would have been a good fit for Winnipeg.
Chevaldayoff does not need to panic, yet. The onset of panic would be many months into the future. However, I believe if Hughes wants to acquire McGroarty this summer, he would have to give up genuine value. For example, I think Chevaldayoff, unless he is crazy, should accept a 1 for 1 deal for Beck, Mailloux, or Hage. However, personally, I would not seriously consider two of those three scenarios. And Guhle for McGroarty is just silly.
If Hughes really likes that kid, then hopefully he is focused more on offering a (relatively) strong mix and match type package.
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Post by Cranky on Jul 3, 2024 22:03:48 GMT -5
For example, I think Chevaldayoff, unless he is crazy, should accept a 1 for 1 deal for Beck, Mailloux, or Hage. However, personally, I would not seriously consider two of those three scenarios. And Guhle for McGroarty is just silly. I'm assuming you would be offering Beck? At this point we don't know if we got another Poeling in Beck or a 2C waiting to hatch. A request for the other 3 would be met with laughter. |
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 4, 2024 0:55:14 GMT -5
I've given up on Barron. So if we can get anything decent in return i'm good. The question is what do we have to throw in with Barron. I'd start with our 7th round pick last week, Rasmus Bergqvist. He's 5'6" and weighs 128. And he's a defenceman. Don't think he'll be another Zetterberg but maybe Chevaldier can be convinced  |
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Post by Cranky on Jul 4, 2024 1:33:58 GMT -5
I've given up on Barron. So if we can get anything decent in return i'm good. The question is what do we have to throw in with Barron. I'd start with our 7th round pick last week, Rasmus Bergqvist. He's 5'6" and weighs 128. And he's a defenceman. Don't think he'll be another Zetterberg but maybe Chevaldier can be convinced Me thinks it's a type, or when he was 12. 6'2" and 181. Still growing.... www.eliteprospects.com/player/650935/rasmus-bergqvist |
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Post by Polarice on Jul 4, 2024 5:25:08 GMT -5
I think Winnipeg would have settled (i.e. accepted reality) to trade him straight up with Buffalo for their 11th, Philly 12th, Minnesota 13th or San Jose 14th. And for whatever those teams got focused in on a certain player and did not see McGroarty being superior. Playing along with my assumption that Chevaldayoff was working the phones hard with those clubs, did Kevyn Adams, Briere, Billy Guerin, and Grier make the wrong choice? No, of course not. Sam Dickinson could well have a bigger impact on a club over the decade than McGroarty. For me Buium will be a more impactful player than the University of Michigan center. Luchanko, well, I am not so sure and frankly I have no idea what the heck Keith Jones and Briere were thinking when they passed on Buium. And Helenius would have been a good fit for Winnipeg. Chevaldayoff does not need to panic, yet. The onset of panic would be many months into the future. However, I believe if Hughes wants to acquire McGroarty this summer, he would have to give up genuine value. For example, I think Chevaldayoff, unless he is crazy, should accept a 1 for 1 deal for Beck, Mailloux, or Hage. However, personally, I would not seriously consider two of those three scenarios. And Guhle for McGroarty is just silly. If Hughes really likes that kid, then hopefully he is focused more on offering a (relatively) strong mix and match type package. I think it's crazy they would expect that....from the digging I did on McGroarty he's an agitator who will score 15-18 goals in the NHL, they compare him to Tyler Bertuzzi which isn't bad, but he's barely worth a Barron, little on a high pick. |
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Post by Polarice on Jul 4, 2024 5:28:03 GMT -5
I've given up on Barron. So if we can get anything decent in return i'm good. The question is what do we have to throw in with Barron. I'd start with our 7th round pick last week, Rasmus Bergqvist. He's 5'6" and weighs 128. And he's a defenceman. Don't think he'll be another Zetterberg but maybe Chevaldier can be convinced Me thinks it's a type, or when he was 12. 6'2" and 181. Still growing.... www.eliteprospects.com/player/650935/rasmus-bergqvistI'm thinking he could be a solid pick for the Habs....a good AHL'er who we can call up every now and again to cover injuries. |
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Post by folatre on Jul 4, 2024 17:52:12 GMT -5
For example, I think Chevaldayoff, unless he is crazy, should accept a 1 for 1 deal for Beck, Mailloux, or Hage. However, personally, I would not seriously consider two of those three scenarios. And Guhle for McGroarty is just silly. I'm assuming you would be offering Beck? At this point we don't know if we got another Poeling in Beck or a 2C waiting to hatch. A request for the other 3 would be met with laughter. Yes, you assumed correctly. I see Beck as a much better prospect than Poehling was. I know I am an NCAA skeptic, and I am willing to accept that Poehling was never super-skilled (maybe Beck is not either), but the things that always stood out for me related to his limited hockey sense and the fact that he played hockey a lot smaller than his frame would suggest he should. Anyway, back to trading Beck for McGroarty. I think McGroarty has a higher offensive ceiling than Beck. However, I like Beck's pace and edginess more than McGroarty's. I would actually not make this trade if I did not have doubts about Dach's ability to stay healthy. Because if Dach is healthy moving forward, then there is no need for McGroarty since I think Beck profiles are an ideal 3C. I still think Chevaldayoff at this moment is looking for a big win type trade, hoping that suitors, due to being excited that McGroarty is unexpectedly available, are caught up in the moment and offer more than McGroarty is likely worth. And this is why I think Hughes is going to wait until the dust settles a little and then eventually put his 'best' offer on the table around 6-8 weeks from now, and I think Hughes' best offer will be a mix and match type package that will have plenty of quality but nothing that hands Winnipeg a piece that Montreal cannot do without. |
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Post by Cranky on Jul 4, 2024 19:15:56 GMT -5
I'm assuming you would be offering Beck? At this point we don't know if we got another Poeling in Beck or a 2C waiting to hatch. A request for the other 3 would be met with laughter. Yes, you assumed correctly. I see Beck as a much better prospect than Poehling was. I know I am an NCAA skeptic, and I am willing to accept that Poehling was never super-skilled (maybe Beck is not either), but the things that always stood out for me related to his limited hockey sense and the fact that he played hockey a lot smaller than his frame would suggest he should. Anyway, back to trading Beck for McGroarty. I think McGroarty has a higher offensive ceiling than Beck. However, I like Beck's pace and edginess more than McGroarty's. I would actually not make this trade if I did not have doubts about Dach's ability to stay healthy. Because if Dach is healthy moving forward, then there is no need for McGroarty since I think Beck profiles are an ideal 3C. I still think Chevaldayoff at this moment is looking for a big win type trade, hoping that suitors, due to being excited that McGroarty is unexpectedly available, are caught up in the moment and offer more than McGroarty is likely worth. And this is why I think Hughes is going to wait until the dust settles a little and then eventually put his 'best' offer on the table around 6-8 weeks from now, and I think Hughes' best offer will be a mix and match type package that will have plenty of quality but nothing that hands Winnipeg a piece that Montreal cannot do without. He got an idiotic haul for Dubois, of course he thinks he's going to get an idiotic haul for McG. I don't see McG as a need if Demidov is coming over this season. Between Demidov, Kapanen, Beck, Hutson, Reinbacher and Mailioux, wow, that would be a massive jump in talent. I have zero problems sacrificing a season for that much influx of youth. Finally, McG may get run over before he has a chance. Beck, Kapanen and Demidov are going to fight him for every second of ice time. Then of course if he has holes in his game, the AHL will be waiting for him. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 5, 2024 1:54:39 GMT -5
Finally, McG may get run over before he has a chance. Beck, Kapanen and Demidov are going to fight him for every second of ice time. Then of course if he has holes in his game, the AHL will be waiting for him. He won't be competing against any of those guys. Demidov is clearly a top line guy, or on the 1B line. Kapanen and Beck are centres, while McG, who has played centre before, is much more likely a winger in the NHL. Skating is supposedly an issue with him, or at least was an issue. I didn't see it holding him back in the tournaments I saw, but NWT says it's his explosiveness, first step stuff that isn't strong. That may well still be a problem, but Montreal's scouts would have a better handle on that than me. In any case, he'd likely end up on the 3rd line in Montreal. A very good third line, but he isn't surpassing Caufield or Demidov, the projected LW'rs on lines 1a and 1b. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 5, 2024 7:40:49 GMT -5
Finally, McG may get run over before he has a chance. Beck, Kapanen and Demidov are going to fight him for every second of ice time. Then of course if he has holes in his game, the AHL will be waiting for him. He won't be competing against any of those guys. Demidov is clearly a top line guy, or on the 1B line. Kapanen and Beck are centres, while McG, who has played centre before, is much more likely a winger in the NHL. Skating is supposedly an issue with him, or at least was an issue. I didn't see it holding him back in the tournaments I saw, but NWT says it's his explosiveness, first step stuff that isn't strong. That may well still be a problem, but Montreal's scouts would have a better handle on that than me. In any case, he'd likely end up on the 3rd line in Montreal. A very good third line, but he isn't surpassing Caufield or Demidov, the projected LW'rs on lines 1a and 1b. I thought McG would be a 2nd liner but if he's a third liner then i won't want to pay too much for him... Looks like we finally have some solid competition for forward and D spots |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 5, 2024 7:47:38 GMT -5
The other thing is McGroarty has not yet been established himself as an NHL player, unlike both the Newhook and Dach trades which were for guys who had at least some NHL time under their belt, and Newhook even had a Cup ring. If you look at what Hughes gave up for both, I cannot see him willing to offer a bigger package for McGroarty.
Just like when he puts his guys on the market, he likely has a price that he is willing to pay and if Chevy does not come down to that price, then I expect Hughes is comfortable walking away. So I tend to agree that this deal, if it gets done, will be later in the summer when Chevy has no other deal in place and feels the need to resolve this before camp.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 5, 2024 13:19:36 GMT -5
I thought McG would be a 2nd liner but if he's a third liner then i won't want to pay too much for him... Looks like we finally have some solid competition for forward and D spots To be fair, he's a 3rd line on Montreal because of the two guys ahead of him at LW. On a lot of teams, he'd be a 2nd liner. Onn Montreal, if he played RW, he might well slot in on the 2nd line...assuming of course that the skating issue isn't an issue any longer. Thing is the guy keeps producing at each level. He put up a ppg in his first year at Michigan, in 39 games. Last season, in 36 games, he put up 16-36-52, or 1.44 ppg. That's a good progression and a lot of points in the NCAA. A question with him is, because he is really strong, will that translate to the NHL? I tend to think so. Jayden Struble is the same sort, but at a different position. One play that stands out for me, is him catching Tage Thompson on a breakaway and then from behind and to the side (not a great angle). leaning into him enough that he wasn't able to get off a good shot on Monty or Primeau. Strength matters. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 9, 2024 8:48:55 GMT -5
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Post by habsorbed on Sept 9, 2024 9:37:43 GMT -5
Welcome to the party Elliot!
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Post by seventeen on Sept 9, 2024 13:20:13 GMT -5
Someone posted that he is 220 lbs, which means that size is now nothing but muscles. So he's stronger and lighter. Nice combination.
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 9, 2024 14:35:26 GMT -5
Someone posted that he is 220 lbs, which means that size is now nothing but muscles. So he's stronger and lighter. Nice combination. I posted that, I saw it online, |
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Post by Willie Dog on Sept 10, 2024 9:54:27 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Sept 10, 2024 13:16:31 GMT -5
We can't tell if Slaf omitted it, or the writer did, but in addition to the excitement about Laine, I would like to see a comment about missing Jordan Harris. Naturally, Laine is more important to the team at this junction than Harris is, but Jordan had to be a really well liked teammate. Maybe it's all been said and done earlier by the remaining Habs players and they feel that part has been expressed well enough. That could be.
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Post by IamCanadiens on Sept 10, 2024 14:27:52 GMT -5
We can't tell if Slaf omitted it, or the writer did, but in addition to the excitement about Laine, I would like to see a comment about missing Jordan Harris. Naturally, Laine is more important to the team at this junction than Harris is, but Jordan had to be a really well liked teammate. Maybe it's all been said and done earlier by the remaining Habs players and they feel that part has been expressed well enough. That could be. It's a non-issue to me. Those that were close to Harris undoubtedly contacted him in their private lives. I prefer that they keep those things out of the media and away from the team. I really respected Harris as both a player and a person but the Habs have a vested interest in welcoming Laine over anything Harris as you mentioned. Move along, nothing to see here. |
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