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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 1, 2024 17:55:18 GMT -5
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Post by jkr on Jul 2, 2024 5:08:12 GMT -5
I wonder if Bowman will get a crack at the Oilers job.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 2, 2024 21:20:43 GMT -5
Quenneville would make a good assistant for Marty.
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Post by jkr on Jul 25, 2024 6:24:11 GMT -5
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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 25, 2024 11:28:14 GMT -5
I get the outcry about what happened, but at the same time I believe in second chances. What happened to the player was wrong. The organization should of been pro-active. However, the player should of gone to the cops.
Maybe it is what I see in everyday life, but it seems like we have entered into a phase in life were everyone is out to get each other and each subject has divided people to the point of hatred.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 25, 2024 12:36:09 GMT -5
I wonder if Bowman will get a crack at the Oilers job. Bowman hired as GM by Oilers. Will post a link ASAP. A critical take by Damiam Cox who brings up past instances where the Oilers overlooked serious issues. I wonder what the reaction has been in Edmonton and if they would have hired this guy if they won game 7. A good friend is an avid Oilers fan and he is disturbed by the hiring. He's not vehemently against it, but it raises the question of "how far are you willing to go to win?". Perry had issues (though I'm not clear on exactly what they are), Kane had gambling and temper problems and now Bownan, who reputably did make an effort to learn from the mistake. the Oilers seem attracted to problems. Second chances, for me are for people who didn't know better. You learn from your mistakes. I don't know if it was right to hire Bowman, but it re-inforces a serious, underlying problem with hockey in Canada and that is the culture. Sexual abuse isn't considered as egregious and harmful as it actually is. Hazing and initiation rituals are completely unnecessary, but persist. I still recall going from Grade 7 to 8, moving from elementary school to a Secondary School from Grades 8-12 and we had to go through an Initiation day. We were required to dress in some ridiculous fashion, and I don't even recall what it was. The fact is that it caused me anxiety until it was over. Did it make me feel part of the 'team'? No, it was just entertainment for the grades 9-12. It was stupid, but it was accepted and no one in administration raised any questions about it. It didn't kill me, but I'm not sure it made me stronger either. Fifty years later, I see such customs as control and manipulation tactics, with no benefit at all. |
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Post by jkr on Jul 25, 2024 13:03:37 GMT -5
Second chances should be given but to me it depends on the issue. This isn't a substance abuse thing, this is sexual abuse. The Hawks management was aware but chose to let it slide. Should Beach have gone to the police? Perhaps but he was just a 20 year old kid at the time trying to make it as a high pick. He put it in the hands of management, people he felt he could trust and they let him down big time. Why didn't Bowman pick up the phone? Did Bowman & company actually think that hiding the issue would help their Cup chances?
Sadly, fans won't care if the team wins. Chelsea fans were OK with their team being owned by a Russian oligarch as long as it won Premier League titles. Argo fans will be glad to see Chad Kelly back even though he is a creep that was guilty of harassing a female staff member. I'm sure there are more examples of bad behaviour being overlooked. Winning forgives a lot of sins , even those that should not be forgiven.
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Post by Andrew on Jul 25, 2024 13:04:33 GMT -5
I'm not against second chances, in general, but I wouldn't want anything to do with Bowman given the Beach situation. Also is Bowman really worth it? How much of the Hawks' success was his doing? He was riding shotgun as assistant GM to Tallon when all of the key pieces of their dynasty were acquired. How much of the hype around Bowman is due to his last name and having been around during a winning era versus his abilities.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 25, 2024 16:26:47 GMT -5
I'm not against second chances, in general, but I wouldn't want anything to do with Bowman given the Beach situation. Also is Bowman really worth it? How much of the Hawks' success was his doing? He was riding shotgun as assistant GM to Tallon when all of the key pieces of their dynasty were acquired. How much of the hype around Bowman is due to his last name and having been around during a winning era versus his abilities. I agree with you. Bowman's main success came with managing the CAP after their first cup. Woohoo. By the time he became GM in 2009, the Hawks had already drafted Bickell, Boland. Seabrook, Crawford, Hjalmersson, Keith, Byfuglien, Kane, and Toews. That's the guts of the Stanley Cup winning teams. Now he's landed in a similar spot with the team already in place for him. What will he do? |
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Post by frozone on Jul 25, 2024 21:19:38 GMT -5
Yes I’m a nerd and I read the report from the Jenner and Block investigation (you can find it online) and my impression was that management bungled the handling of it more so than anything.
Granted, this was a while ago, but from what I remember, management had called a meeting right after having been notified of the video coach’s alleged behaviour. No one could agree on what the next actions should be, and ultimately Al MacIsaac said he would take care of it. He then took 3 weeks before doing something about it.
Stan Bowman wasn’t hands on about the issue, and he didn’t follow up with Al MacIsaac although he should have. I find the media paints a picture of old front office men conspiring to silence Beach, when the reality is closer to management just not knowing their own organization’s policies regarding alleged sexual harassment/abuse complaints.
I’d give Bowman another chance in the NHL based on the report, but that Damien Cox article has me thinking that it shouldn’t be Edmonton giving him that second chance. That’s a long list of overlooked transgressions.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 26, 2024 1:09:09 GMT -5
It was a serious enough matter that Bowman should have followed up on it. Was MacIsaac Bowman's boss or vice-versa? It doesn't really matter as it's not the kind of think you can just expect someone else should have dealt with.
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Post by frozone on Jul 26, 2024 7:40:15 GMT -5
It was a serious enough matter that Bowman should have followed up on it. Was MacIsaac Bowman's boss or vice-versa? It doesn't really matter as it's not the kind of think you can just expect someone else should have dealt with. Bowman was the Sr VP of Hockey Ops, so Bowman was MacIsaac’s boss. After MacIsaac said he would take care of it, it would have been on Bowman to follow up. Regardless, they didn’t even need to figure out how to “take care of it”. No one needed to be a hero, they should have just gone to HR. I truly believe he wouldn’t make that mistake again a second time. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 26, 2024 7:40:46 GMT -5
Yes I’m a nerd and I read the report from the Jenner and Block investigation (you can find it online) and my impression was that management bungled the handling of it more so than anything. Granted, this was a while ago, but from what I remember, management had called a meeting right after having been notified of the video coach’s alleged behaviour. No one could agree on what the next actions should be, and ultimately Al MacIsaac said he would take care of it. He then took 3 weeks before doing something about it. Stan Bowman wasn’t hands on about the issue, and he didn’t follow up with Al MacIsaac although he should have. I find the media paints a picture of old front office men conspiring to silence Beach, when the reality is closer to management just not knowing their own organization’s policies regarding alleged sexual harassment/abuse complaints. I’d give Bowman another chance in the NHL based on the report, but that Damien Cox article has me thinking that it shouldn’t be Edmonton giving him that second chance. That’s a long list of overlooked transgressions. I think he and the rest of those involved should have been banned for life... if you don't know what to do in that situation then you're a moron who should be fired... if you want to know what to do go home and ask your wife what should happen to a guy who did that to her child... you'll get your answer. Pretty f'n simple. They got off with a slap on the wrist... |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 26, 2024 9:07:19 GMT -5
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Post by jkr on Jul 26, 2024 11:45:27 GMT -5
i wonder if this will end up the way the Babcock hiring did in Columbus.
2800 people is not a lot but it's still early. I think this Jeff Jackson dude got this wrong.
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Post by jkr on Jul 26, 2024 11:46:28 GMT -5
Yes I’m a nerd and I read the report from the Jenner and Block investigation (you can find it online) and my impression was that management bungled the handling of it more so than anything. Granted, this was a while ago, but from what I remember, management had called a meeting right after having been notified of the video coach’s alleged behaviour. No one could agree on what the next actions should be, and ultimately Al MacIsaac said he would take care of it. He then took 3 weeks before doing something about it. Stan Bowman wasn’t hands on about the issue, and he didn’t follow up with Al MacIsaac although he should have. I find the media paints a picture of old front office men conspiring to silence Beach, when the reality is closer to management just not knowing their own organization’s policies regarding alleged sexual harassment/abuse complaints. I’d give Bowman another chance in the NHL based on the report, but that Damien Cox article has me thinking that it shouldn’t be Edmonton giving him that second chance. That’s a long list of overlooked transgressions. I think he and the rest of those involved should have been banned for life... if you don't know what to do in that situation then you're a moron who should be fired... if you want to know what to do go home and ask your wife what should happen to a guy who did that to her child... you'll get your answer. Pretty f'n simple. They got off with a slap on the wrist... Agree. How long does it take to call the police? |
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Post by frozone on Jul 26, 2024 20:29:53 GMT -5
Yes I’m a nerd and I read the report from the Jenner and Block investigation (you can find it online) and my impression was that management bungled the handling of it more so than anything. Granted, this was a while ago, but from what I remember, management had called a meeting right after having been notified of the video coach’s alleged behaviour. No one could agree on what the next actions should be, and ultimately Al MacIsaac said he would take care of it. He then took 3 weeks before doing something about it. Stan Bowman wasn’t hands on about the issue, and he didn’t follow up with Al MacIsaac although he should have. I find the media paints a picture of old front office men conspiring to silence Beach, when the reality is closer to management just not knowing their own organization’s policies regarding alleged sexual harassment/abuse complaints. I’d give Bowman another chance in the NHL based on the report, but that Damien Cox article has me thinking that it shouldn’t be Edmonton giving him that second chance. That’s a long list of overlooked transgressions. I think he and the rest of those involved should have been banned for life... if you don't know what to do in that situation then you're a moron who should be fired... if you want to know what to do go home and ask your wife what should happen to a guy who did that to her child... you'll get your answer. Pretty f'n simple. They got off with a slap on the wrist... So forget about learning from mistakes? Then maybe everyone who goes to jail should go to jail for life. Sheldon Kennedy heavily endorsed Bowman’s return to the NHL. And to be honest, the hockey culture is broken enough that we’re probably better off keeping doors open to folks with lessons to share. For instance, now that the Oilers have hired Bowman, they may be using the opportunity to double check if their abuse/harassment policies are up to par. One thing is for sure, the executives in Edmonton will be trained on how to handle similar allegations properly and that probably wouldn’t happen if they don’t hire Bowman. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 26, 2024 22:25:01 GMT -5
I dont forgive the predator. I dont blame Bowman and the org for it happening, the guy who did it is to blame... what i blame them for is the amount of time it took for them to do something about it. These guys should know better, from a business, HR, fan and culture perspective, you're running a multi million/billion dollar business... you don't sit there saying 'What do I do?". Sorry I think they wanted to bury it because it was during a time when they were cup contenders in 2010, that is an opinion I have read online a lot. An article about the 2nd lawsuit filed... globalnews.ca/news/10075758/chicago-blackhawks-coach-sexual-assault-lawsuit-kyle-beach/"The lawsuit, filed last week in Cook County Circuit Court, claims that the Blackhawks organization ignored John Doe’s sexual assault allegations against coach Aldrich, and put “Stanley Cup Championship aspirations ahead of the welfare of its players and provided cover to a sexual predator.” Regarding Sheldon Kennedy, I think it's fantastic that Sheldon Kennedy is involved, if he's not working for the NHL or NHLPA, then he should be, Kyle Beach should also be considered if he wants... this is something that needs to be discussed and taken out of the shadows... |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 27, 2024 1:22:36 GMT -5
None of us were put into those positions of player, coach and management. So we can only speculate what was on on in their mind. It's not always black and white. The expression innocent until proven guilty still exists and not jumping to conclusions for a reason. Sure, Chicago was slow in reacting but I have seen people's good name slandered before too in over reaction cases.
I still think it should of been brought up to the police because of the nature of the crime.
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Post by jkr on Jul 27, 2024 6:48:35 GMT -5
I’d give Bowman another chance in the NHL based on the report, but that Damien Cox article has me thinking that it shouldn’t be Edmonton giving him that second chance. That’s a long list of overlooked transgressions. I had forgotten about some of those Oiler signings. Perhaps the McTavish incident was a single tragic event. I don't know enough about him. But Dave Hunter? Three drunk driving arrests in 2 years says to me that he's an unrepentant alcoholic that didn't deserve the 2nd or 3rd or 4th chances he got. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 27, 2024 14:20:38 GMT -5
Yes I’m a nerd and I read the report from the Jenner and Block investigation (you can find it online) and my impression was that management bungled the handling of it more so than anything. Granted, this was a while ago, but from what I remember, management had called a meeting right after having been notified of the video coach’s alleged behaviour. No one could agree on what the next actions should be, and ultimately Al MacIsaac said he would take care of it. He then took 3 weeks before doing something about it. Stan Bowman wasn’t hands on about the issue, and he didn’t follow up with Al MacIsaac although he should have. I find the media paints a picture of old front office men conspiring to silence Beach, when the reality is closer to management just not knowing their own organization’s policies regarding alleged sexual harassment/abuse complaints. I’d give Bowman another chance in the NHL based on the report, but that Damien Cox article has me thinking that it shouldn’t be Edmonton giving him that second chance. That’s a long list of overlooked transgressions. I think he and the rest of those involved should have been banned for life... if you don't know what to do in that situation then you're a moron who should be fired... if you want to know what to do go home and ask your wife what should happen to a guy who did that to her child... you'll get your answer. Pretty f'n simple. They got off with a slap on the wrist... Buttman has a double standard. A 17 year old kid playing hockey 6,000 miles from home gets lucky/trapped/blackmailed and shows juvenile pictures to his teammates and is banned from hockey for two years and forced to grovel to get back. An adult executive is derelict in his duty and morality and is back as an executive again. Old boys network. |
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