Package for McGroarty

[Willie Dog]

[Cranky]

How about nothing?

I do NOT like an entitled brat.

Move along...

[Scotty D]

Jul 12, 2024 16:28:56 GMT -5 Cranky said:

How about nothing?

I do NOT an entitled brat.

Move along...

My sentiments exactly HA, building a winning culture does not including trading assets for an entitled brat.

[jkr]

I find the tweet unclear. Did Hughes offer Mesar only? Are the additional pieces suggestions by Bernard? In any case I wonder about this. Mesar , Barron and a 1st is the equivalent of 3 first rounders for McGroarty. IMO he is not worth it.

[Willie Dog]

I agree guys, HuGo are building something really great.

[drkcloud]

I'm more concerned about what else the article went on to say.

"The third-highest drafted Slovak from the 2022 NHL draft played last season in the OHL overseas junior competition for the Kitchener Rangers and scored 52 points in 45 games , which, according to the portal mentioned at the beginning, is disappointing. Despite the presence of stellar junior teammates on the team like Carson Rehkopf and Hunter Brzustewicz , Mešár was unable to get his game going and the worst part of it all was that he decided to point at his teammates . "When I was trying to create something, my teammates were there a little late, and that frustrated me a little, but I had to get over it ," he said in an interview with Slovak media. This indignation of the Poprad hockey prodigy certainly did not add to the team atmosphere.

The situation surrounding Mešár became even more complicated when Montreal decided to return him after a difficult stint from the farm to the OHL, despite the fact that they promised him a place in the farm competition . Although the Canadiens management explained to him that players like Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield had not yet played in the NHL at his age , our youngster had a problem accepting this decision . In addition to publicly criticizing his teammates, he declined Kent Hughes' invitation to attend the Canadiens' development camp , which is seen as a certain lack of professionalism or determination to fight for a spot on the team"


Did he really turn down a spot at development camp? That seems really dumb

[Willie Dog]

Jul 12, 2024 17:03:39 GMT -5 drkcloud said:

I'm more concerned about what else the article went on to say.

"The third-highest drafted Slovak from the 2022 NHL draft played last season in the OHL overseas junior competition for the Kitchener Rangers and scored 52 points in 45 games , which, according to the portal mentioned at the beginning, is disappointing. Despite the presence of stellar junior teammates on the team like Carson Rehkopf and Hunter Brzustewicz , Mešár was unable to get his game going and the worst part of it all was that he decided to point at his teammates . "When I was trying to create something, my teammates were there a little late, and that frustrated me a little, but I had to get over it ," he said in an interview with Slovak media. This indignation of the Poprad hockey prodigy certainly did not add to the team atmosphere.

The situation surrounding Mešár became even more complicated when Montreal decided to return him after a difficult stint from the farm to the OHL, despite the fact that they promised him a place in the farm competition . Although the Canadiens management explained to him that players like Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield had not yet played in the NHL at his age , our youngster had a problem accepting this decision . In addition to publicly criticizing his teammates, he declined Kent Hughes' invitation to attend the Canadiens' development camp , which is seen as a certain lack of professionalism or determination to fight for a spot on the team"


Did he really turn down a spot at development camp? That seems really dumb

Wow... that's problematic...

[folatre]

Regarding Mesar, I was not crazy about picking him at the time, but hey there is nothing wrong with taking a low-floor, potentially high-ceiling kid late in the first round. But it is understandable if management is, privately at least, no longer bullish on him. Given his skill and age, Mesar's productivity in the OHL was pedestrian. And with him publicly pouting this summer in Europe, I think the kid really needs to change the chip in September, put his head down and work hard for ice time in Laval.

Regarding McGroarty, the kid is evidently full of himself. That does not mean that he is not going to be a good NHL player, but everything that has emerged over the last four months certainly raises questions. Chevaldayoff is in a lousy situation and I get it that for now at least he does not want to waver in his ask. But even setting aside the possible character issues with this kid, potential buyers do not really have reason to see this kid as a can't miss difference-maker. Jimmy Vesey was a big, skilled forward who dominated NCAA hockey.

Hughes should not guarantee a kid like this an NHL roster spot and ice time. If McGroarty is just trying to force his way out of Winnipeg and his camp assures Hughes that all he asks for is a fair shot with no guarantees, then fine onward with negotiations with the Jets. And in this scenario my best offer would be Mesar, Harris or Barron, Pittsburgh's second rounder, and Boston's fourth. I expect Chevaldayoff would say no sir I can't do that.

If the rumors are true from the draft this summer that Winnipeg turned down Buffalo and Minnesota when they put their first round pick on the table for McGroarty, then it is pretty clear that Chevaldayoff is overvaluing the kid or, since he comfortably has another 9-11 months of runway to move him, Winnipeg's GM feels like for a trade to happen this summer the Jets have to be the clear winners.

[seventeen]

All good points, folatre. This whole thing is strange, and I mean from an informational standpoint. How solid is the 'information' or rumours being bandied about? This stuff about Mesar is very new and may possibly be from an overseas (Slovakia?) interview, hearsay, insider info? Same thing with the McGroarty stuff. How much of this is McGroarty, how much of it is his agent, family etc? What's odd is that nothing of this has surfaced in the kid's past and suddenly it's there. There's got to be something of truth about it or Winnipeg wouldn't be interested in moving the guy. What if both are true? Does Hughes see an opportunity to swap headaches?

One comment of Mesar's was interesting, that he blamed teammates for not being where they should be. For a high level guy, I can see that being irksome. I've used the example of Markov when he first came up and making great passes to nobody because teammates weren't where they should have been if they'd read the same, smart play. But Markov didn't say anything, he just kept making great passes. Haven't we heard similar complaints, usually from Russian players and interviews, over the years? It's difficult to get a read on anything without knowing who to trust.

I just hope Hughes and Gorton do their due dilience, and they are two who I do trust.

[Skilly]

We selected the wrong Filip

We didn’t need another small forward. I still think we did it to make Slafkovsky more comfortable. And that had value too

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Jul 12, 2024 18:33:54 GMT -5 folatre said:

Regarding Mesar, I was not crazy about picking him at the time, but hey there is nothing wrong with taking a low-floor, potentially high-ceiling kid late in the first round. But it is understandable if management is, privately at least, no longer bullish on him. Given his skill and age, Mesar's productivity in the OHL was pedestrian. And with him publicly pouting this summer in Europe, I think the kid really needs to change the chip in September, put his head down and work hard for ice time in Laval.

Regarding McGroarty, the kid is evidently full of himself. That does not mean that he is not going to be a good NHL player, but everything that has emerged over the last four months certainly raises questions. Chevaldayoff is in a lousy situation and I get it that for now at least he does not want to waver in his ask. But even setting aside the possible character issues with this kid, potential buyers do not really have reason to see this kid as a can't miss difference-maker. Jimmy Vesey was a big, skilled forward who dominated NCAA hockey.

Hughes should not guarantee a kid like this an NHL roster spot and ice time. If McGroarty is just trying to force his way out of Winnipeg and his camp assures Hughes that all he asks for is a fair shot with no guarantees, then fine onward with negotiations with the Jets. And in this scenario my best offer would be Mesar, Harris or Barron, Pittsburgh's second rounder, and Boston's fourth. I expect Chevaldayoff would say no sir I can't do that.

If the rumors are true from the draft this summer that Winnipeg turned down Buffalo and Minnesota when they put their first round pick on the table for McGroarty, then it is pretty clear that Chevaldayoff is overvaluing the kid or, since he comfortably has another 9-11 months of runway to move him, Winnipeg's GM feels like for a trade to happen this summer the Jets have to be the clear winners.

Putting together a package for McSelfish we need to include someone who refuses to play for us and demands to be traded.

[habsorbed]

My guess is he doesn't want to be in the Peg - so the kids got some smarts I'm sure Hughes has all the info on McG's character as the one thing Hughes knows inside out is NCAA players.

I'm good with offering Mesar, Barron and a 2nd. McG was drafted 14th overall so not exactly top of the class. I've given up on Barron and he can go play with his brother. Harris may still prove to be a top 4 dman so don't want to let him go yet. Never was enamoured with Mesar and as 17 said it seemed like a pick to comfort Slafs - that need has sailed. And we can throw in a 2nd round pick. Losing Barron, Mesar and a 2nd would have no impact on HuGo's plan while picking up McG could result in a top 6 in a few years. But I ain't throwing in another 1st round, that's way to rich for a 14th overall who hasn't proved anything.

[folatre]

The Jets wanted to sign the kid when NCAA season ended, but they would not guarantee him a place in the lineup heading into the playoffs. So the kid declined to sign. This much is known to have happened.

Now in terms of all of the speculation of about trade offers, it is just speculation. In particular, it is pure speculation that McGroarty's camp has blocked offers that Winnipeg would have been willing to accept.

As to why the kid demanded a roster spot in order to sign, things are never as clear as one would like them to be. By all accounts McGroarty is a good kid raised in a nice family. Vesey was also raised in a nice family and his dad is a hockey man through and through. Are other kids influencing McGroarty? He is buds with Gautheir. I think he played a year at Michigan with Fantilli and Nazar.

[seventeen]

Jul 13, 2024 11:31:03 GMT -5 folatre said:

The Jets wanted to sign the kid when NCAA season ended, but they would not guarantee him a place in the lineup heading into the playoffs. So the kid declined to sign. This much is known to have happened.

Now in terms of all of the speculation of about trade offers, it is just speculation. In particular, it is pure speculation that McGroarty's camp has blocked offers that Winnipeg would have been willing to accept.

As to why the kid demanded a roster spot in order to sign, things are never as clear as one would like them to be. By all accounts McGroarty is a good kid raised in a nice family. Vesey was also raised in a nice family and his dad is a hockey man through and through. Are other kids influencing McGroarty? He is buds with Gautheir. I think he played a year at Michigan with Fantilli and Nazar.

McGroarty also played on the WJC team and on the U18 team with Lane Hutson.

[Cranky]

Jets found a sucker last year so they are expecting another one to show up this year.

If you are a GM then you are a fool to think this kid is going to be on your team is a few years. Unless of course you open the vaults for his "potenial".

Once entitled, always entitled...

[seventeen]

I still have interest in him because I'm not convinced about the entitlement bit. This whole trade scenario is something cooked up by someone in Slovakia to get attention, or it was just some musing which someone else took as gospel and ran with it. There's so much dumbness and miscommunication in the world that you really have to watch where you step.

Anyway, how many of us have predicted any trade by Hughes? They've come out of left field for me.

[habsorbed]

Jul 13, 2024 14:47:53 GMT -5 seventeen said:

I still have interest in him because I'm not convinced about the entitlement bit. This whole trade scenario is something cooked up by someone in Slovakia to get attention, or it was just some musing which someone else took as gospel and ran with it. There's so much dumbness and miscommunication in the world that you really have to watch where you step.

Anyway, how many of us have predicted any trade by Hughes? They've come out of left field for me.

I assume you're talking about Mesar, although the same would apply to McG. With respect to Mesar, it sounds strange a player would say that about their teammates. It may be the translation got muddled what he was saying is that he was out of synch with other players as they hadn't played much with one another. Nothing wrong with that. As for McG, not sure what is to be gained by the Jets dissing the guy or his own people making such ridiculous demands. I suspect this is the rumour mill beating up on the kid becuase they are not happy that he's backed out of Wiin. As i said before, i have liitle doubt Hughes knows the facts and will use his good judgment.

[folatre]

Yeah, who knows about an interview given in some news outlet in the kid's hometown. There is the language translation thing. There is also the context thing. I would not worry about it. I am concerned about why he did not boss more shifts/games in the OHL as a 19-20 year old. And I am mildly concerned that Mesar would decline an invitation to development club when the Montreal organization evidently thought he could benefit from it.

Anyway, summer is summer. Fall is hockey time. So all I care about is that he shows up in September hungry to compete. He is only just starting his ELC this season, thus there is time to show what he is made of. But time flies in young players' development and not all relatively high picks remain in favor. Case in point, Ylonen was a top 35 pick in his draft year and at age 24 Montreal evidently could not even get a 7th round pick for him this summer and they just let him walk for nothing as a RFA.

[jkr]

I found this article from the Winnipeg Free Press. It paints a different picture, quite different from someone that is selfish and entitled.

www.winnipegfreepress.com/featured/2024/04/12/the-making-of-mcgroarty

[seventeen]

I went over to the Winnipeg fan forum and found this from one of their Moderators, who shows his name as Rick O. It's kind of a summary and may provide insight into how Jets fans are seeing this matter. The Free Press article from jkr definitely paints a different picture of McGroarty than many are assuming. I hadn't read that article but had gleaned from other things I had read that McGroarty had good character so this thing about 'guarantees' went counter to my picture of him. Anyway, here's a Jets fan take on things, which probably won't clear up anything.



I don't know what they mean by "guarantee". Did McG's camp actually say they wanted a guaranteed spot on the roster or is it a case where they could look at the path of recent Jets picks and think it's a team that holds players back? I'm not sure any player in the league has a contractual guarantee of ice time and I doubt that any team can guarantee any rookie a spot in that sense so it just seems like a word someone used to try to describe what was going on in the simplest way possible. Anyway, I would think there would be some way to make the kid feel that he'd get at least as good a shot here as he would anywhere else, which should really be all that matters as far as that goes. The way I read it in the Ates article, it seems that somehow he was not left with that feeling.

Well here's my position. I guess we can say that 1st rounders are expected to be high end propects and any round after that is a hope and a prayer. Or can we say in general that any player chosen in the top half of the 1st round will most likely be a high end talent. I don't know how to define high end prospect exactly, not sure if can be defined exactly as it's obviously an imperfect science even for the experts. And of course it depends on the talent pool of the given draft as one major factor.

If we go with the former criterion, all 1st rounders are likely high end prospects, 1st rounders since Laine are: 1 Stanley, 2 Vesalainen, 3 Heinola, 4 Perfetti, 5 Lucius, 6 McGroarty, 7 Lambert, 8 Barlow. All 8 are or were expected to likely be high end prospects.

If we use the latter criterion, top half of first round (which I would favour), only Perfetti (chosen 10th) and McGroaty (14th) would be considered very likely high end prospects.

You seemed to put Lambert ahead of McGroarty but I would have done the opposite...where I would say adding another rookie (Lambert) may not work very well. Although I get it, I'm really high on Lambert too and we've seen more of him than McGroarty so putting Lambert ahead right now, I can see why you'd say that.

My feeling is, if we get a full year out of Vilardi and Perfetti it will be a minor miracle, so I'm guessing there would have been more than ample opportunity to get a look at both McGroarty and Lambert with top 6 minutes...see if and where they can fit. That seems reasonable to me, especially considering Arniel has stated an objective to give young guys a fair shot...and who better than these two out of the prospect pool? McGroarty is not a skinny 18 year old kid either as you know...he's 20 years old and 200lbs; what I would call an NHL frame at least. Maybe he was not the best player for the US team, I'd say true, but also coming off a major injury that people were calling kind of miraculous that he even healed enough to play. So speculation on my part but I would doubt that he was playing at 100% health and fitness. I won't say that he was the most talented player on the team, I just don't know, there were some really good players on that squad. McG at 20 years old was one of the more mature players on that team so that probably makes him more NHL ready than most.

As far as Chevy fumbling the prospects, I know, he has the toughest job in the league they say. I consider he saved face somewhat in eventually getting Vilardi for Laine but he's only drafted 2 other likely high end prospects since Laine. Very small sample size he's created to find examples of fumbling those prospects. Out of two, he's apparently lost 50%. Maybe he'll get someone as good or better than McGroarty in trade, but the appearance matters to me too and the look of losing this guy is not good IMO.

Who knows, McG started out saying all the right things but maybe it'll turn out that he's the next-coming of PLD and wants to pick his own city to play in. I'm not saying that's what's going on and I don't think it is...but if it is I would concede we're better without him and never should have drafted him in the first place!

Anyway, big disappointment here because from what I saw and heard from McG, seems like a can't fail heart and soul type of player that is not easy find...had promise to fill a major void that I see in the present Jets roster.

[seventeen]

Jul 14, 2024 17:38:33 GMT -5 jkr said:

I found this article from the Winnipeg Free Press. It paints a different picture, quite different from someone that is selfish and entitled.

www.winnipegfreepress.com/featured/2024/04/12/the-making-of-mcgroarty

He recovers from a broken rib and collapsed lung in 10 days and plays in the WJC wearing a flak jacket? Sounds Canadian.

[folatre]

Thanks for the link, jkr. I had heard the kid comes from a good family. And he certainly sounds like a hard worker.

It still seems odd that McGroarty refused to sign with Winnipeg because he wanted a no-AHL guarantee.

[seventeen]

Jul 14, 2024 19:22:51 GMT -5 folatre said:

Thanks for the link, jkr. I had heard the kid comes from a good family. And he certainly sounds like a hard worker.

It still seems odd that McGroarty refused to sign with Winnipeg because he wanted a no-AHL guarantee.

The Jets fan forum suggested a reason that I've heard before. There's concern over how Winnipeg deals with it's prospects, keeping them in the AHL too long and not giving them enough of an opportunity on the big club.

Examples cited are Perfetti and Heinola. The thinking is that while they may be lacking in some areas, the strengths they bring provide more value than some of the players who are being dressed. That may have been a Rick Bowness issue, and before that, Paul Maurice, I believe. Scott Arniel, the new coach, has stated that he wants to give the youngsters more opportunity, but I'm not sure McGroarty and his family believe that.

From the article, it seems McGroarty has run into Lane Hutson on several occasions, playing together on more than one team. I would like to think Hughes has contacted Hutson to ask about Rutger. In Hughes' position, I wouldn't be averse to asking Hutson to call McGroarty to ask him about the situation and what's bothering him about the Jets. And to promote the Habs, of course.

McGroarty's also half Canadian, with his father being from Toronto. The article certainly suggests Rutger has had good values instilled in him and the author went to great lengths to find independent sources, like Barbara Underhill, to corroborate that he has solid character.

I'm as confused as you are, folatre. He sounds like a good kid, so what's with these supposed demands and what exactly are they?

[frozone]

I’m not convinced that there’s anything shady or sneaky about the current McG situation.

Clearly, the Jets are considering signing McG, so he has a choice to make. Naturally, the development philosophy of the club will be an important consideration for the young man. If it’s all but a guarantee that he’ll have to spend time in the AHL, then maybe he’d rather just return to the NCAA.

On the club side, of course they’ll get a little more nervous with every passing year that he goes unsigned. Jordan Harris was a not so recent example where everyone got cold feet and questioned his character every time he returned to university. Lo and behold, not only does Jordan seem to be a great kid, I actually wish that he was a little more assertive and selfish - he could be a top 4 D with more of those traits imo.

Do I think the Habs should take advantage of Winnipeg’s anxiety and trade for the kid? Yes. Do I think we should guarantee him a roster spot? Heck no. He’s gotta earn it, and I suspect he would be happy to come on board and fight for a roster spot as long as he feels he’s getting a fair look.

[seventeen]

Jul 15, 2024 10:58:58 GMT -5 frozone said:

I’m not convinced that there’s anything shady or sneaky about the current McG situation.

Clearly, the Jets are considering signing McG, so he has a choice to make. Naturally, the development philosophy of the club will be an important consideration for the young man. If it’s all but a guarantee that he’ll have to spend time in the AHL, then maybe he’d rather just return to the NCAA.

On the club side, of course they’ll get a little more nervous with every passing year that he goes unsigned. Jordan Harris was a not so recent example where everyone got cold feet and questioned his character every time he returned to university. Lo and behold, not only does Jordan seem to be a great kid, I actually wish that he was a little more assertive and selfish - he could be a top 4 D with more of those traits imo.

Do I think the Habs should take advantage of Winnipeg’s anxiety and trade for the kid? Yes. Do I think we should guarantee him a roster spot? Heck no. He’s gotta earn it, and I suspect he would be happy to come on board and fight for a roster spot as long as he feels he’s getting a fair look.

Nice summation. That's my opinion too and since the rumours suggest the Habs are still in on McG, I'd say it's Hughes' position as well,

[Andrew]

We're definitely in dog-days of summer territory when doing deep-dive analysis of trade rumors originating from Slovak media

I'm not against the proposal. Mesar and Barron both figure to be players that we're eventually parting with anyway, for ever diminishing returns when compared with their first round draft status. If we can package together a bunch of long-shot assets for a sure-bet middle six player with upside then go for it. As long as management have done their diligence on the player.

[seventeen]

Jul 15, 2024 13:52:23 GMT -5 Andrew said:

We're definitely in dog-days of summer territory when doing deep-dive analysis of trade rumors originating from Slovak media

I'm not against the proposal. Mesar and Barron both figure to be players that we're eventually parting with anyway, for ever diminishing returns when compared with their first round draft status. If we can package together a bunch of long-shot assets for a sure-bet middle six player with upside then go for it. As long as management have done their diligence on the player.

I'm not sure that offer was quite enough for Chevy. If Mesar had a great season in the OHL, say 90+ points, it might work. They'll need a top 6 centre and that kind of production could have enticed them. Mesar didn't. He's still a potential NHL'r, but that trade would have to be sweetened. Firstly, as I've mentioned before, the 2025 draft pick would have to be the worst of Montreal's or Calgary's. That removes any protection issues and still leaves open the possibility that Calgary's pick, not Florida's comes to us and is top 10. I don't think we're finishing 22nd next year (we'll be better than that). Also, Chevaldayoff isn't an idiot. Barron is not going to interest him. Or he won't unless the other D included is NHL ready or almost so. Would Harris do it, or would they insist on Struble? I would prefer to hold onto Struble, but every good trade usually means some pain on both sides. Anyway, other than that, it's not a bad offer. I realize McGroarty hasn't proved anything, but that's why your scouts project. If Montreal didn't think McGroarty would be a really good addition, they wouldn't be showing any interest at all.

[folatre]

I think it is a potential mistake to give up either 2025 first rounder unless Hughes has a crystal ball where he sees the Habs getting stuck with Florida's pick in the mid to late 20s.

Apparently, according to Friedman, Chevaldayoff was willing to trade McGroarty straight up for picks in the 11-13 range of round one of the June draft in Vegas and nothing worked out.

I think McGroarty should sign with Winnipeg. Monahan did not re-sign. There is a new coach. There is room for him to make the roster if he has a good camp. In a small market with constant ticket sales worries, Chevaldayoff is not going to send the kid to the AHL if he is one of the best twelve forwards.

Hockey is debatable, but I would not offer more than: Mesar or Kapanen, Barron or Harris, Pittsburgh 2025 2nd rounder, and Montreal's 2025 fourth. Or the only alternative offer: McGroarty for Beck one for one.

[Willie Dog]

If this is true..No thank you

http://instagram.com/p/C9V67JpA7Ug

[drkcloud]

Jul 16, 2024 20:31:17 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

If this is true..No thank you

http://instagram.com/p/C9V67JpA7Ug

If true, he can enjoy his career in Europe