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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 19:18:42 GMT -5
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 19:26:17 GMT -5
Can Sutter speak some français? Would he be a good fit to replace Therrien eventually? At least he has a system........  |
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Post by AH on Dec 1, 2002 20:41:50 GMT -5
Seems like a seriously panicky move to me. The Sharkies have played only 9 home games until now. They are about to embark on a stretch of 20 home games in their next 28 and they fire him now  . (BTW those game stats are courtesy of Neil Smith of the NHL Network ;D ) No kidding they got off to a sluggish start. Nabokov held out and they caved in. Stuart held out and they caved in. Those 2 are 2 of the 4 best players on that team and really how is Sutter to blame ? Neil Smith also went on to mention that Sutter and GM Lombardi were VERY close. He says someone higher up was responsible for this move. Seems kind of unfair to me. I wish our Prez and GM were as unfair .  |
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 20:43:31 GMT -5
Gotta love the Nhl network on game nights ;D You know who should be happy about this firing? Nolan, Selanne, Marleau and all the other skill players on that team. They should be a high scoring team and for some reason they ain't. Must have been Sutters system |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 1, 2002 21:13:57 GMT -5
You know who should be happy about this firing? Pam. Pam will be thrilled. I think Darryl Sutter has Sutter disease. Sutter disease causes a coach to be pretty good in the regular season and then to fall flat on face in the playoffs. (See Sutter, Brian). The only Sutter who's escaped that fate is Brent, who won the big one in Juniour hockey with the Red Deer Rebels. I think last year's playoffs hurt Sutter. I wouldn't be surprised if mgmt was waiting for him to falter to put the final nail in the coffin. And no, I don't want him here, even if he was the second linguistic coming of Alexandre Dumas. Same reason. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 22:18:12 GMT -5
On 2nd thought...no way do I want this guy...
Most of the youth on that team has not progressed like they should have. There must be a reason for that. Why did Teemu all of a sudden become a 30 goal scorer instead of 40-50 goal scorer overnight? why doesn't Nolan do better offensively?
Sutter basically was a trap coach with a great roster loaded with talent.
He has a system, but I doubt it would be the right one for this team.
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Post by Rhiessan on Dec 2, 2002 0:14:55 GMT -5
At least one system would be nice. Is it just me or does it seem like MT uses one system for the forwards and Green uses another for the D because it seems every time the boys get in trouble it starts about 10 feet inside the blueline where the two are supposed to hook up and do the transition thing. The only other thing I can think of is that some player's forget there's a redline because some of em are jumping way too early which would go a long way to explain why RatDog does so many figure 8's  in the neutral zone. |
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 0:50:38 GMT -5
there is no way sutter or anybody NOT born in the province of quebec, is going to ever coach the habs. does anybody remember the last habs coach NOT born in quebec. TOE BLAKE!!!!! thats a long string of quebecers (al macneil coached the team for 55 games in the very early 70's, he was also not born in que.). i don't support this, but ya gotta learn to live with it, cause it's not going to chance
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Post by habwest on Dec 2, 2002 4:00:03 GMT -5
Hey Rhiessan! I think you've got it! Two systems, I like it. Three when the boys don't feel like playing any system at all. The Dialectic...Marx would be proud of MT.
As for the Habs coach, if they get a winning team I don't think the fans will care squat about linguistic purity or province of birth of the coach. If they do they really are stupid and I don't think that Quebec francophones are stupid.
Besides, you gotta remember that, with immigration, the demographics in Quebec are changing big time. A lot of those french speakers are not ethnic francophones, they just speak french because they have no choice or because it makes sense in a city like Montreal. So I can hardly see them emotionally tied to some "pure laine" concept, especially after they get dumped on by the likes of Parizeau with his "ethnics" comment after the last referendum. I think that young Quebecers are becoming very cosmopolitan and confident in themselves so they really don't need crutches like a "Quebec" coach for the Habs. The French tabloids yea, but not the new, emerging, Quebec.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 8:36:19 GMT -5
At least one system would be nice. Is it just me or does it seem like MT uses one system for the forwards and Green uses another for the D because it seems every time the boys get in trouble it starts about 10 feet inside the blueline where the two are supposed to hook up and do the transition thing. The only other thing I can think of is that some player's forget there's a redline because some of em are jumping way too early which would go a long way to explain why RatDog does so many figure 8's in the neutral zone. Seriously, what the hell is our system? Do we play the trap? do we play try to go out there and play an offensive game? |
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Post by PTH on Dec 2, 2002 16:54:35 GMT -5
Hey Rhiessan! I think you've got it! Two systems, I like it. Three when the boys don't feel like playing any system at all. The Dialectic...Marx would be proud of MT. As for the Habs coach, if they get a winning team I don't think the fans will care squat about linguistic purity or province of birth of the coach. If they do they really are stupid and I don't think that Quebec francophones are stupid. Besides, you gotta remember that, with immigration, the demographics in Quebec are changing big time. A lot of those french speakers are not ethnic francophones, they just speak french because they have no choice or because it makes sense in a city like Montreal. So I can hardly see them emotionally tied to some "pure laine" concept, especially after they get dumped on by the likes of Parizeau with his "ethnics" comment after the last referendum. I think that young Quebecers are becoming very cosmopolitan and confident in themselves so they really don't need crutches like a "Quebec" coach for the Habs. The French tabloids yea, but not the new, emerging, Quebec. It's that kind of thinking that ensures that all "pure laine" Quebecers will want a coach who can at least babble in French. Ever notice that whenever someone says "hey, language doesn't matter", it's to bring in an English-only coach/employee/just about anyone ? |
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Post by habwest on Dec 3, 2002 21:55:47 GMT -5
Well, PTH, I wouldn't care if he spoke only french or german or whatever language so long as he could do a good job.
But the fact is that any coach of any team in this League, inlcuding the Habs, needs to speak english. It's the universal language of the league, french isn't. Any coach who could only speak a non english language wouldn't cut it anywhere, including Montreal. On the other hand french isn't necessary for any player to play in this league; english more or less is. Hence all coaches speak english (well except for the guy in Pittsburg and that was a disaster). Those are plain facts.
Insisting that any Habs coach must speak french before being hired:
1) limits the talent pool from which a top coach can be chosen and could conceivably preclude, at any one point in time, any top knotch coach from being available for the team when needed. This approach could, and probably will, in the long run help ensure the mediocrity of the team. I am not saying that if two candidates of equal merit are available and one is a french speaker he shouldn't be picked. Obviously he should be. On the other hand if the best candidate(s) can't speak french but lesser candidates can I am saying that we should pick the best available for the good of the team. Now it would be a good idea if a such new, non french speaking, coach took french lessons.
2) demonstrates a lack of confidence in the french culture and francophones. My statement was intended to applaud francophones and non enthnic french speakers, including those who are unilingual, who are confident enough in their "frenchness" to not worry about such minor things as a french language prerequisite for a Habs coach. The things that really count, however, such as the control of the the political, economic and cultural levers of the province, are thoroughly in the hands of french speakers. That I support fully, although the extreme manifestations such as the language police going around measuring the size of letters I find pretty bizarre and silly.
I much admire Montreal with its cosmopolitan culture, including obviously the dominant french fact and, frankly, the abiity of many of its french speakers to also speak english. That makes it a much more interesting city than Ottawa where I live and which is boring. I can also understand the desirability of having french speaking Habs stars, better yet Quebec francophone Habs stars, because these are "heros" and symbols. I don't much believe in heros applied to everyday life (as opposed to in war where soldeirs give their lives) but if I did Beliveau would come to mind. The coach, on the other hand, isn't a hero. He's a technician who's only in the limelight when his team loses. We really don't want a coach who is in the lime light. That's not to say he isn't important but as a Habs fan I want the best available, not some second stringer becasue a really good french speaking coach doesn't happen to be available. Frankly I feel the same way about the players. I want a winning team.
As far as my observations on Parizeau's pure laine comment goes I let it stand. It's one thing to be proud of your ethnic background and to revel in it, promote it and ensure its survival. But if you can't be a good Quebecer or a good francophone without being "ethnically pure" then that's a tragedy. I find the idea of ethnic nationalism, at least in its more aggressive forms, intolerant, repugnant and dangerous. It is in effect racist and anyone proceeding down the path of ethnic purity is indeed stupid because the beast that is thereby created will ultimately turn upon you or cause others to do so. Witness Hitlerian Germany.
To be frank I refuse to be intimidated on this issue because of political correctness as I believe that this is a bed rock value of a liberal democracy and that citizens need to, are even obligated to, speak out.
Now if I misunderstood your comment then, please, disregard my lecture. But if I did not then we are implaccably opposed and that doesn't bother me in the least. After all, "it's that kind of thinking" that will ruin this country.
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Post by Pam on Dec 13, 2002 19:18:41 GMT -5
Pam. Pam will be thrilled. I think Darryl Sutter has Sutter disease. Sutter disease causes a coach to be pretty good in the regular season and then to fall flat on face in the playoffs. (See Sutter, Brian). The only Sutter who's escaped that fate is Brent, who won the big one in Juniour hockey with the Red Deer Rebels. I think last year's playoffs hurt Sutter. I wouldn't be surprised if mgmt was waiting for him to falter to put the final nail in the coffin. And no, I don't want him here, even if he was the second linguistic coming of Alexandre Dumas. Same reason. Actually I wasn't thrilled. Nabby wasn't signed, Stuart wasn't signed. Sundstrom was re-signed so late in the off season he couldn't get his VISA approved to return to the United States. Thornton was out on injuries. Suter retired. Darryl was down 5 of his regular players. He had to substitue with 5 Rookies with at least 4 of them not ready to be in the NHL. Lombardi does this every offseason. Every Pre Season seems to start without the entire roster re-signed. Lombardi actually stated that Sutter wasn't to blame but that someone's head had to roll, so it was Sutter's. Lots of fans here were asking for Dean Lombardi's head. The Sharks as much admitted Sutter was the sacrificial lamb in the entire thing. Sutter should have been given until Christmas to turn the team around. If he hadn't turned it around by Christmas, then they could have addressed replacing him. The 3 unsigned players, and Thornton missed all of Training Camp. Nabby and Stuart missed all of Training Camp and all of Pre Season. Thornton only played the 1st Pre Season game and then was out on Injuries again. On top of that, these guys missed the first 10 to 15 Regular Season games as well. Made it pretty hard for Darryl to have a winning team. Having Stuart, Nabokov, Sundstrom and Thornton all missing really hurt the team. Add the new Rule Enforcement to the equation and that hurt the Sharks even more. They had a constant parade to the Penalty Box and lost games because of it. So then they stop the Penalty Parade and started playing boring hockey (no fights, not even spur of the moment fights). Sort of like Figure Skating with sticks, so they could start winning some games. There is a poll on the Sharks Website: 'Which recent move will help San Jose most?' *Hiring Ron Wilson *Acquiring Dan McGillis *Re-calling Jonathan Cheechoo *Re-calling Jim Fahey A few days ago I cast my vote (for McGillis) so I could see how it was going. 35% said hiring Ron Wilson. 38% said trading for McGillis. Several said recalling Cheechoo and a few said calling up Fahey. I was at the game last night. They say the same thing. That Wilson is a good coach but they don't think he is the answer. One season ticket holder I talked to last night (he is a 12 year season ticket holder, and was a season ticket holder of the Oakland/California Golden Seals when they existed), doesn't think Wilson will be able to accomplish with the team what the Sharks want him to accomplish. Quite a few of us aren't sure if they will even make the Playoffs. Actually, some of the long time season ticket holders are blaming Ownership for the problems. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 13, 2002 19:19:53 GMT -5
Don't worry...they'll make it...
Too much, WAY too much talent to miss..
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Post by Pam on Dec 16, 2002 19:09:08 GMT -5
I think the Sharks knew they had better get their butts in gear. What with Sutter and his assistants being fired and then Rags traded to Philly, the rest of them probably knew they would be next if they didn't start playing. Of course, once all the missing regulars returned it was only a matter of time until they got their game together. Thorny is one if the very important players on the team. He definitely makes the difference in their game. With him out again, it's anyone's guess how the game will go in Montreal tomorrow night. Since it is a 4:30pm start for me, I'm going to tape the game so I can see it in it's entirety later. I'm mostly bummed out because I couldn't fly up for the Leafs and Sharks game on Saturday, although it would have been fun to go to Montreal again like I did last season for the games (Montreal & Toronto/Sharks).
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. (BTW those game stats are courtesy of Neil Smith of the NHL Network ;D )
in the neutral zone.
