Dyment traded to Wild

[Yeti]

Hi guys, I'm still here, but leaving in 10 days.

Just saw on RDS that Chris Dyment has been traded to the Wild for a 5th round draft pick. Strange, he had a good season but he was a "veteran" (fourth year of college hockey). I know there is a limit to the number of players than can be under contract every year, maybe Savard just had to trade him.

[Bobs_HABit]

Un-friggin-believable. I'm sure all the pro-Savard posters will shrug this move off but Dyment has the potential to be a top 4 d-man in this league and it's way too early to give up on him for nothing. I suppose the kiss of death for Chris is that he was drafted by Reggie. A prospect of any type let alone a 6'3 d-man who can skate for a 5th rounder is utter stupidity. Everybody keeps talking about Savard's master plan but dropping prospects for nothing and keeping our idiot coach isn't exactly genius.
This move really has me pissed but what else is new.

[BadCompany]

From a soon-to-be-published Site Prospect Update:

Chris Dyment: “You should wait.” I told myself. “Why try to make a prediction now? Why not just wait a couple of monthes, see how things shake out? Why put what little that’s left of your reputation on the line?” “Bah!” I replied to myself, “Who needs a reputation?” Dyment has finished his college career, and the ball is now squarely in Montreal’s camp. To sign, or not to sign? On a positive note for Dyment, he was listed as Montreal’s 10th best prospect in The Hockey News. On a negative note, Dyment finished his college career early, and Montreal could have signed him and brought him to Quebec, if only to watch, as they did with Ron Hainsey, but they didn’t. Positive? He had a pretty good college career, and rebounded nicely from a disappointing season the year before. Negative? Montreal has young defencemen coming out the wazoo (Souray, Rivet, Markov, Hainsey, Komisarek, Robidas, Bouillon, Descoteaux, Razin). I think he’ll go the Josh DeWolf route, as in, Montreal won’t sign him, but somebody else will, and he’ll play in the AHL next year. See? I could have waited, but nope! I made a prediction. Aren’t you proud of me?"

Sort of right. Montreal didn't sign him, and he will play in the AHL next year. But we did manage to get a 5th rounder out of the deal.

I think there was just no room for Dyment. In the NHL you have:

Brisebois, Souray, Dykhuis, Markov, Rivet, Quintal, Traverse, Robidas, Bouillon. With the exception of (I think) Bouillon, all are under contract for next year.

In the AHL you have:

Hainsey, Jarventie, Descoteaux, Fillipowizc (though I don't think he is Montreal property) Razin, O'Dette, Beachemin, and Royer.

That's 17 defencemen right there. Only 12 can play at one time (6 in the NHL, 6 in the AHL). Figure 2 more for insurance (each team carries 7 D) and you still have 3 players left over. Only two - Bouillon and Fillipowicz - are not under contract to Montreal for next year (I think). Throw in Komisarek, who Savard said he wants to try and sign, and well, there ain't an awful lot of wiggle room to squeeze in another blueliner.

Oh well. Best of luck to Dyment. Not sure how great a prospect he is anymore - mini-Karl Dykhuis maybe - but he's big, he's strong, and he has some talent. Going to an expansion team just might be the best thing that could happen to him.

Oh and yeti, if I don't catch you before you leave, best of luck to you. May the road always rise to meet you.

[Ryan]

I base this on absolutely nothing at all, but $20 says the kid never sees NHL ice.

[Cranky]

Ah common guys, do I have to explain EVERY conspiracy to you guys? Well do I?

AS is negotiating with Komi and what better way to deliver a message to Komi then to point out to him that there was a great prospect named Dyment who was really a diamond in the rough and then after four years of college....POOF. Dust.

Now, Mr. Komi, do you want to stay in collage or do you want to play with the big boys? Freaken brilliant message. I wonder if AS is going to write a book entitled:" I ain't NO Saint."

Tomorrows discussion. Alien Conspiracies.

[MPLABBE]

I have never seen him play, so I can't tell you if he has the potential Bobs-Habit thinks he has, but to only get a 5th rounder in a weak draft is somewhat dissapointing.


A 5th rounder in 2003 would have been more acceptable.


We'll see how it turns out, I personally never saw him on the Habs blueline of the future to begin with. Good luck Chris in Minny.

[MPLABBE]

HabsAddict said:

Ah common guys, do I have to explain EVERY conspiracy to you guys? Well do I?

AS is negotiating with Komi and what better way to deliver a message to Komi then to point out to him that there was a great prospect named Dyment who was really a diamond in the rough and then after four years of college....POOF. Dust.

Now, Mr. Komi, do you want to stay in collage or do you want to play with the big boys? Freaken brilliant message. I wonder if AS is going to write a book entitled:" I ain't NO Saint."

Tomorrows discussion. Alien Conspiracies.

Am I missing something or is HA joking when he is saying Dyment was once considered a great prospect?

[Cranky]

MPLABBE said:

Am I missing something or is HA joking when he is saying Dyment was once considered a great prospect?

Of course he was. Wasn't he chosen 97th by Foule? I think the 98th pick was for one of the Hanson brothers.

He was no Bobby Orr
He was no Ray Bourque
And he was no Jack Kennedy

Did I ever tell you young'one. Never , ever argue with a hockey Addicted mind.

[MPLABBE]

HabsAddict said:

Of course he was. Wasn't he chosen 97th by Foule? I think the 98th pick was for one of the Hanson brothers.

He was no Bobby Orr
He was no Ray Bourque
And he was no Jack Kennedy

Did I ever tell you young'one. Never , ever argue with a hockey Addicted mind.

Whatever

[habwest]

Yes indeedee, he was, 3 years ago. He had a hot season scoring wise, then had a bad year last year and recovered  this year but I don't think got back to the numbers, or at least the consistent development, expected. He might turn out to be something, who knows, but it looks like he was behind Hainsey, Komisarek, Shasby and even Archer as prospects. Then there's the rest of the crowd already in the minors that Bad Co listed so it may be just numbers.

Not to mention the Machiavellian scheming that HA mentioned, which I think Savard is entirely capable of.
Don't let Therrien hanging around fool you, it's just another way to buy time until the prospects have tiime to develop. I'm sure Therrien is, in Savard's mind, entirely disposable kept on hand until the GM figures the new talent is ready in sufficient numbers to make a significant impact. Then we'll see who Savard really wants as a coach.

[Cranky]

He was NOT considered a great prospect. It was the Habs scouting staff that believed that you can get talent by the inches and pounds. His development STALLED. That is why I am really worried about Komi and leaving him in Michigan.

When you are 18th defenseman on the teams chart then it means that one is considered a little more then a bag of pucks. And that is what we got for him. Maybe, just maybe this will be a wake up call for him........

[Cranky]

HabWest said:

Yes indeedee, he was, 3 years ago. He had a hot season scoring wise, then had a bad year last year and recovered  this year but I don't think got back to the numbers, or at least the consistent development, expected. He might turn out to be something, who knows, but it looks like he was behind Hainsey, Komisarek, Shasby and even Archer as prospects. Then there's the rest of the crowd already in the minors that Bad Co listed so it may be just numbers.

Not to mention the Machiavellian scheming that HA mentioned, which I think Savard is entirely capable of.
Don't let Therrien hanging around fool you, it's just another way to buy time until the prospects have tiime to develop. I'm sure Therrien is, in Savard's mind, entirely disposable kept on hand until the GM figures the new talent is ready in sufficient numbers to make a significant impact. Then we'll see who Savard really wants as a coach.

Thank God that there is us old fogies around that can read the words between the letters.  Our advanced years and the reduced blood flow to our brains gives us that unique torqued view of things.

They don't get it, do they HW and 17?

By the way, do you know where I can get Geritol wholesale?

BTW, I like to reveal my sources of conspiratorial “information”. Notice the appropiate size and grit of some of the Hab's that have hidden there.

www.mtattersall.demon.co.uk/tubbies/home.html

[seventeen]

Did I hear my name?  Dang, where are those hearing aids when you really need them?  

If Savard is indeed thinking along those lines, he must have some Italian blood somewhere in his lineage (I'm allowed to say that, you politically correct police informers).  That may have been an ancillary benefit (god I love spouting multi-syllable words that help make up for the Alzheimers and gout), but actually it was probably simpler than that.  Dyment had his good year in his sophomore season.  That's fine, but you gotta improve every year after that.  I've pored over the player stats in the NHL guide for umpteen years and that's one pattern I believe has some merit.  Guys who eventually make the NHL from college usually show consistent improvement (allowing for injuries....that's for those of you who looked up John LecLair).  Even Johnny had an awesome senior year after his injury riddled prior years.  Dyment improved, but wasn't dominant in his senior year.  He also hasn't shown much growth in weight or strength (obviously avoiding those nasty steroids).  So perhaps Savard put that together with the subliminal message to Komi and decided to trade him.  Or perhaps Reggie once stole a french fry off Savard's plate and Andre has never forgiven him.  Go figure.  

[GARB08]

i have been told threw an email with a person who does profiles on habs draft picks that eh was traded b/c he had 1 good year(player with ryan whitney) next year had a bad year then this year had an average year and the habs thought this was the normail dyment hopefully the habs management is right

[MPLABBE]

HabWest said:

Yes indeedee, he was, 3 years ago. He had a hot season scoring wise, then had a bad year last year and recovered  this year but I don't think got back to the numbers, or at least the consistent development, expected. He might turn out to be something, who knows, but it looks like he was behind Hainsey, Komisarek, Shasby and even Archer as prospects. Then there's the rest of the crowd already in the minors that Bad Co listed so it may be just numbers.

Not to mention the Machiavellian scheming that HA mentioned, which I think Savard is entirely capable of.
Don't let Therrien hanging around fool you, it's just another way to buy time until the prospects have tiime to develop. I'm sure Therrien is, in Savard's mind, entirely disposable kept on hand until the GM figures the new talent is ready in sufficient numbers to make a significant impact. Then we'll see who Savard really wants as a coach.

Thanks for the info.

[MPLABBE]

HabsAddict said:

He was NOT considered a great prospect. It was the Habs scouting staff that believed that you can get talent by the inches and pounds. His development STALLED. That is why I am really worried about Komi and leaving him in Michigan.

When you are 18th defenseman on the teams chart then it means that one is considered a little more then a bag of pucks. And that is what we got for him. Maybe, just maybe this will be a wake up call for him........

Here we go again ;D...let the pros and cons of having Komi in college or the AHL be debated again ;D

My position is still the same, sign him now and get him to the AHL next year. Time for him to move to another level.

[MPLABBE]

GARB08 said:

i have been told threw an email with a person who does profiles on habs draft picks that eh was traded b/c he had 1 good year(player with ryan whitney) next year had a bad year then this year had an average year and the habs thought this was the normail dyment hopefully the habs management is right

hey, thanks for the info! doesn't surprise me he had a great year playing with Whitney.

[seventeen]

BadCompany said:

I think there was just no room for Dyment. In the NHL you have:

Brisebois, Souray, Dykhuis, Markov, Rivet, Quintal, Traverse, Robidas, Bouillon. With the exception of (I think) Bouillon, all are under contract for next year.

In the AHL you have:

Hainsey, Jarventie, Descoteaux, Fillipowizc (though I don't think he is Montreal property) Razin, O'Dette, Beachemin, and Royer.

That's 17 defencemen right there. Only 12 can play at one time (6 in the NHL, 6 in the AHL). Figure 2 more for insurance (each team carries 7 D) and you still have 3 players left over. Only two - Bouillon and Fillipowicz - are not under contract to Montreal for next year (I think). Throw in Komisarek, who Savard said he wants to try and sign, and well, there ain't an awful lot of wiggle room to squeeze in another blueliner.  

Aye, there's the rub.  You make some excellent points BC, which only raises that gargoyle we've hammered around before...."Has Savard tied his own hands with some of his contracts".  Let's look at the list of defensemen you've mentioned.  

Brisebois, Souray, Dykhuis, Markov, Rivet, Quintal, Traverse, Robidas, Bouillon Hainsey, Jarventie, Descoteaux, Fillipowicz, Razin, O'Dette, Beachemin, and Royer.
Let's be realistic about who we really want on the payroll.  How's this list look when we whittle it down?

Brisebois, Souray, Dykhuis, Markov, Rivet, Quintal, Hainsey.  Jarventie and Razin may yet have some upside, so let's say we hold on to them for the Cits.  That's 7 NHL defensemen and two AHL'rs.  And I'm being very loose with my definition of NHL d'men  as I'd keep 4 of the above..you have to guess which 4.  (Markov and Hainsey are 2).  So, in reality we don't have 17 defensemen against whom Dyment had to battle, we really had 2.  So is he that bad that he couldn't beat out the Beauchemins and Royers of the world?  Or is it, as you pointed out,  that Savard has to keep most of the above flotsam, and he simply couldn't sign Dyment, even though his talent level is high enough?  Is this scenario going to repeat itself?  Has AS shot himself in the foot.   Stay tuned.  

[Bobs_HABit]

Sorry, HabsAddict but I'm not dropping this one that easily. Afterall i'm in a foul mood as long as the Leafs are still hanging around. He had an average year, eh. He was 5th on his team in points, 1st in plus/minus with a +23 (closest teammate was +15 only 3 others were better then +10) and 2nd in powerplay goals. He WON the Hockey East Old Time Hockey Best Defensive Defenceman Award this season (awarded by the Coaches).

Here's a quote from the Hockey East website...
"Earning the award in 2002 is Boston University defenseman Chris Dyment. A native of Reading, Mass., Dyment anchored the Terrier' defensive corps with BU allowing only 2.71 goals per game in Hockey East contests.

Best Defensive Defenseman Award Winner:
2002 Chris Dyment, Boston University
2001 Bobby Allen, Boston College
2000 Mike Mottau, Boston College
1999 Steve O'Brien, New Hampshire"

Oh and by the way he was a second team All American for the second time in his career.

Man does he ever suck. How did Savard ever get a 5th for him? His developement stalled so let's deal him because no one learns anything in our system. right? I'm not saying he's an allstar but you don't trade a prospect that you never had a chance to develop on your own. Would one season in the AHL been so hard to take just to be sure about this kid? I realize your mindset is that if Savard is trading the kid than obviously he's never going to make the bigs and I just don't get that.

And come on he's not our 18th best defenceman and you know it. He's 22 had no pro hockey experience but has a lot of potential so let's trade him so we don't lose 4 older d-men (Razin, O'Dette, Descoteaux, Beauchemin) who we obviously have no faith in. Heaven forbid we take a roster spot away from Traverse, Robidas or Bouillon and let's not forget Savard's pet project Jarventie.

It's a terrible move no matter what spin you guys put on it. I bet you with that 5th he takes a 24 year old defenceman from Europe.

[PTH]

HabWest said:

Not to mention the Machiavellian scheming that HA mentioned, which I think Savard is entirely capable of.
Don't let Therrien hanging around fool you, it's just another way to buy time until the prospects have tiime to develop. I'm sure Therrien is, in Savard's mind, entirely disposable kept on hand until the GM figures the new talent is ready in sufficient numbers to make a significant impact. Then we'll see who Savard really wants as a coach.

I hate the say this, but I think you guys are way, way out of it if you think AS is really all that subtle a GM. From what I've read and especially seen of him on TV, I've always gotten the feeling that he was a tad slow. He's excellent at evaluating a players potential, and obviously is a competent GM, given what he's done with this team over the past year, but he's no saint, and there's no reason to think he has any kind of a master plan.

We'll likely never know for sure why Dyment was dealt, but it likely is a combination of a lot of things:
-Dyment's lack of progress
-Dyment being greedy
-abundance of D makes signing marginal prospects less of a priority
-Habs just having too many players under contract. I for one think this is an important factor, given that it's probably the reason why Hanchuk and Chvojka (I think I have those names right. I think... ) were released as well.

This isn't the first time we see prospects jettisoned, either by Savard or by Houle, and it hasn't come back to haunt us seriously (Conroy and Dwyer are the only guys who come to mind who didn't get a real chance at the NHL before being dealt and doing ok elsewhere. Campbell was 1-dimensional and really didn't belong either).

I actually can't think of a single player on any team who was dumped, unsigned, and that made the team regret it (prospects being traded for players, like Forsberg for Lindros, don't count - that wasn't being dumped!)

[BadCompany]

HabsAddict said:

When you are 18th defenseman on the teams chart then it means that one is considered a little more then a bag of pucks. And that is what we got for him. Maybe, just maybe this will be a wake up call for him.

Senior Chris Dyment (Reading), who led all Terrier defensemen in scoring this past season, has been named Second Team JOFA/American Hockey Coaches Association All-American. This marks the second time in his collegiate career that he has been named Second Team All-American as he was similarly honored after his sophomore year.

"I am very happy that Chris has been recognized as an All-American for how he played this past season," said Terrier head coach Jack Parker. "He had a fabulous season and a fabulous career. But, all the goals and assists he had this season pale by comparison to what he meant as a leader."

Dyment, along with co-captain Mike Pandolfo (Burlington), helped spearhead an attitude change on the Terrier team. The result was the Terriers finished the season with a 25-10-3 record, as it marked the eighth time in the last 10 years that the team has won at least 25 games. Along the way, the Terriers won the Beanpot for the seventh time in the last eight years and the 24th time in the 50-year history of the tournament.

Statistically, Dyment finished the season with 7 goals and 18 assists for 25 points. In addition to leading the B.U. defensemen in scoring, he was tied for the team lead in assists and was second in power play goals with six. He did lead the team in the all-important plus-minus department with an outstanding plus-21.

Prior to his being named All-American, he was voted to the All-New England team, was named Hockey East's best defensive defenseman and was a Second Team All-Hockey East selection. During the season, he was named the Hockey East Koho Player of the Week after scoring two power play goals and adding an assist in the 4-0 win over Merrimack on October 28th.

On two other occasions, he was named Hockey East Defensive Player of the Week. The first came after he had a goal and two assists in a weekend sweep of UMass on December 7th and 9th. The second came after registering three assists in a weekend sweep of Providence on February 22nd and 23rd.

Dyment was named All-American twice - this year, and two years ago, in 1999-2000. That year, his fellow All-Americans were Ty Conklin, Jeff Farkas, Cory Larose, and
Mike Mottau. Only Dyment and Larose have yet to play in the NHL. He is 6'3, 210lbs, plays physical, is defensively aware and creates offensive chances. He mans the powerplay. I have spoken a couple of times with people from the Boston area, and they all think he is a fantastic player. Go ask Jeff from Maine (maineblackbear) over on CF's board what he thinks of Dyment. While Jeff tends to get a little excited he said Dyment was the best defensive prospect he had seen since Ray Bourque. Now while THAT is an exaggeration, Dyment should not be considered a bag of pucks.

I don't know if he will make it. If I could see things like that, I would buy lottery tickets. But given the choice between Dyment, and Beachemin, Traverse, O'Dette, Fillipowicz, Royer and Razin, and heck, even Bouillon and Robidas, I'd go with Dyment. Martin Madden - NOT Rejean Houle - listed Dyment as Montreal's 10th best prospect, ahead of all those other bozos, and ahead of Jarventie, Ward, Buturlin, Ryder, Thinel, and just about everybody else down in Quebec.

Maybe he would never have made the Montreal Canadiens. But he could have helped the farm team, develope that "winning attitude" that is so necessary for prospects to flourish in. We let Josh DeWolf go last year, Detroit picked him up and he played so well for their AHL affiliate, that he was actually named to Team USA's World Championship team, along with Derian Hatcher, Eric Weinrich, Mark Eaton, Chris Tamer and Jordan Leopold. DeWolf will probably never make the NHL either, but he plays well enough to help other, more valuable prospects develope.

Look again at the list of guys ahead of him; Remi Royer, Francis Beauchemin, Matt O'Dette, Gennady Razin. Is he worse than them? Or was the real reason what we feared all along? That Savard, by handing out long term contracts to largely un-tradeable players, has tied up too much roster space, both in Montreal and in the AHL? Does anybody think we will get a better prospect than Dyment with a 5th round pick? Or is Savard just trying to buy some time (2 years before he has to sign the 5th rounder) while other players clear out?

Personally, if I am a GM, the only way to pry a young defenceman out my hands is to make sure they are cold and dead first. But that's just me.

[Bobs_HABit]

BadCo, welcome back. I don't know who that imposter was at the start of this thread but I thought for a second HA mind tricks had started working on you as well.
Glad to have you back on the dark side.

[MPLABBE]

seventeen said:

Aye, there's the rub.  You make some excellent points BC, which only raises that gargoyle we've hammered around before...."Has Savard tied his own hands with some of his contracts".  Let's look at the list of defensemen you've mentioned.  <br>
Brisebois, Souray, Dykhuis, Markov, Rivet, Quintal, Traverse, Robidas, Bouillon Hainsey, Jarventie, Descoteaux, Fillipowicz, Razin, O'Dette, Beachemin, and Royer.
Let's be realistic about who we really want on the payroll.  How's this list look when we whittle it down?

Brisebois, Souray, Dykhuis, Markov, Rivet, Quintal, Hainsey.  Jarventie and Razin may yet have some upside, so let's say we hold on to them for the Cits.  That's 7 NHL defensemen and two AHL'rs.  And I'm being very loose with my definition of NHL d'men  as I'd keep 4 of the above..you have to guess which 4.  (Markov and Hainsey are 2).  So, in reality we don't have 17 defensemen against whom Dyment had to battle, we really had 2.  So is he that bad that he couldn't beat out the Beauchemins and Royers of the world?  Or is it, as you pointed out,  that Savard has to keep most of the above flotsam, and he simply couldn't sign Dyment, even though his talent level is high enough?  Is this scenario going to repeat itself?  Has AS shot himself in the foot.   Stay tuned.  

Maybe this means AS plans to keep the midgets(Bouillon and Robidas) and the big stiff(Traverse) in the organization?

[MPLABBE]

Bobs_HABit said:

Best Defensive Defenseman Award Winner:
2002 Chris Dyment, Boston University
2001 Bobby Allen, Boston College
2000 Mike Mottau, Boston College
1999 Steve O'Brien, New Hampshire"

.

Not many good prospects on that list! Motteau has trouble cracking the poor Rangers defence, Allen has already been traded once and I have no idea who O'Brien is.

It's not like he won the Hobey Baker award, relax a little.

[MPLABBE]

Wasn't their a press release by the Habs following the trade? with comments from AS?


BC, thanks for the Josh Dewolf update!


I wonder where JV is to defend the ''Saint" ;D

[Johnny Verdun]

Been a long time, dudes.  I got injured.  My feelings got hurt.  Hurt bad.  But I'm bouncing back.  

About this whole Dyment thing, well I don't like it.  Not one bit.  Given the year he had, his skating ability and size, you've got to sign him and watch him for at least a year in the AHL before you ship him for a pick that's a longshot to produce a player with anything close to his potential. Unless he demanded Hainsey-like numbers (did they ever talk turkey?) there's no reason to do this if you can possibly create the space. If need be, you have to off-load someone like Descoteaux or Razin, or any one of about 4 or 5 other guys before you send Chris packing for a fifth. Maybe Savard knows something we don't. I sure hope so. Because the way it looks to me the system is still jammed with a bunch of guys who we KNOW aren't going to be helping the big club (read: Darby, Poulin, Chouinard, Bouillon, Robidas, Landry, etc,etc.). The point of having an AHL farm club is to grow young talent. Dyment is young and he has talent. We should have growed him. Shoulda growed him good....

If we'd gotten a fourth, maybe I wouldn't be carping and yimmering about this, but a fifth is almost a throw away....

[Cranky]

Is this it? Is this the best you guys can do? HUH? Mutts……..

Okay, I will indulge you two and that ninja trained Foghorn Leghorn as to why I think that St. Savard  kissed Dyment on the left cheek, in a Euro, manly kind of way, before he inserted the cold steel blade.

1.      We have a huge plethora of defenseman who the Hab’s can use. Like it or not, our top 6 looks like this:

Brisebois--31
Souray--25
Dykhuis--29
Markov--23
Rivet--27
Quintal--33

Our AHL defenseman that can play in the NHL look like this. Like it or not, these guys can play at the NHL level, which is many light years and a few feet better then College hockey.
Traverse--28
Robidas--25
Bouillon--26
Hainsey--21

AHL and maybe NHLers
Jarventie,
Descoteaux,
Fillipowicz,
Razin,
O'Dette,
Beachemin,
Royer.  <br>
Plus a little baby dinosaur by the name of Mike Komisarek. Plus whatever goodies the upcoming draft will yield.

As you said it yourself BadOne, where exactly do you fit Dyment? You can only play 12 to 14 at any one time. What do you do with the extra 5 to 7? Convert them to usherettes with hairy legs?

Do you guys also know that you can only have 50 players under contract? Did they need yet another defenseman who MAY and probably will not make it?

Did you know what kind of money he was asking for? Dyment knew very well that he has at least two extremely good prospects (Hainsey and Komi) to jump over before he tackles the other dozen who are probably equal or better then him.

There are a hundred scouts in the NHL. Why did not one of those clubs jump out and offer something a lot more lucrative then a 5th rounder? Is the entire NHL scouting fraternity conspiring to steal Dyment from under my beloved St. Savard?  Did AS hate Dyment genetic sequence and wanted to get rid of him to the Wild of neverland?   Why did  the Rangers not offer a lot more for his abilities then the Wild? If he is that good a prospect, at least 20 other clubs would be jumping at the opportunity to grab him. Unless of course you believe that St.  Savard just decided that he likes Lemaire because they shared a bottle of Rogain sometime in the recent past. Do we know more then the professional scouts?

Do we take the scribes clippings on what a wonderful and sexy human being Dymant is and how he could also play hockey on the side. When is the last time a coach said to the papers “Him ugly prospect, him no good”. As far as the coaches are concerned they are ALL wonderful. Can they be anything else? Every freaken time I read, “he is a very good skater for his size”, my little addicted brain cell immediately translate this to mean that the guy can stand on his skates but needs a downward tilt of the ring in order to go forward.

[Cranky]

Then we point out that he is a winner of the Defensive Defense of the Defensively Challenged Defensive Team. And?

Best Defensive Defenseman Award Winner:
2002 Chris Dyment, Boston University
2001 Bobby Allen, Boston College
2000 Mike Mottau, Boston College
1999 Steve O'Brien, New Hampshire"

Who are the rest of these Award winning puppies? Have they even made a Chihuahua like dent in the NHL? Do you guys realize that in collage, they give out so many awards that you need seven Chinese scribes with Intel enhanced abacuses  to keep track. Way cheaper to give some ugly mug in recognizing that litlle BillyJoe can properly tie his shoe laces rather then paying him any real money. The type of real money Universities love to make from their sports programs.

One more thing about College hockey. If the AHL is 50% of the level of play, then what is Collage hockey? 30% of AHL playing level? One of the arguments that I make over and over and over until my gills turn purple is that College hockey has a ceiling of quality play. It is not even near the AHL never mind the NHL. Why would anyone assume that leaving a prospect at a low level of competition like Collage, that somehow, he will allow it to develop into some kind of NHL star? By copious amounts of beer and pizza? I see people drag names from there yonder of this guy or that guy who made it after collage but can anyone give me any numbers as to how many? 10 from lets say a small village of 700 NHLers? Is that proof that collage hockey gives players enough of a challenge to develop into NHLers? Does anyone want to compare that to the AHL? Compare that with 70% if not more. So please, if you going to make a case as to how hockey prepares one to step into the NHL, show me (us) the overwhelming numbers and not the occasional player who would make it big even if his nipple rings where tied to the Zamboni.

Does anyone even care to argue that College coaching is superior to AHL or NHL coaching? Let me put it this way, this is not the Mafia where you recruit a kid from the old town square and then he developed into Little Al the hit man. Prospects need to be trained and pushed to the higher and higher levels. Leaving them in collage to practice the back pass of the left boards from the right circle will get them exactly ZERO success in the NHL. They will find out that they do not have the time and space to even touch the puck, let alone practice some maneuver that they practiced lovingly in collage. Finding yourself face to face with Gary Roberts is a LONG, LONG way from some pimple faced 18 year old who just learned how to skate seven years earlier. A painfully long way.

You want a quote from some one who says that he spoke to a scout.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Slant, one of the posters at FanHome.

I've been holding out high hopes for Mr. Dyment myself, but a recent conversation with Hab scout Pierre Dorion leads me to believe that he may not be signed.
Pierre told me that Dyment hit a peak in his sophomore season, and never really improved his game. Dorion suggested that Dyment had such a strong season statsitcally because he was partnered with Ryan Whitney, a top prospect for this year's draft.
It didn't sound like the team was in any rush to sign him.
As for Shasby, Dorion holds out hope that he may develop into a better prospect than Dyment. His skating is certainly better.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let me tell you, you nasty gang of unbelievers. I have been around to hear so much of this prospect that is a sure thing and that prospect who is a sure thing that I only believe in one thing. Stick them in the fire and watch them squirm. If they are made of the RIGHT STUFF, they WILL succeed. None of this, “ohh, little BillyJoe Gagne was going to be a superstar but them BAD karma managers kept him from succeeding”. How many excuses can we make for lack of effort or desire? If you are a prospect and want to succeed, you better damn want to and fight anyone and everyone in sight to make it. I wonder if anyone has given Chuoinard and the like an in your face smack down.

Sheesh, you guys dragged me out of my cave to defend the St. Savard against false accusation from you unbelievers. Let us not make this Dyment fellow some kind of super prospect that was lost in a Foulian type of trade.

fabas indulcet fames.......................

I'm going back to my cave now to finish my stories about aliens.

[MPLABBE]

Johnny said:

Been a long time, dudes.  I got injured.  My feelings got hurt.  Hurt bad.  But I'm bouncing back.  <br>
About this whole Dyment thing, well I don't like it.  Not one bit.  Given the year he had, his skating ability and size, you've got to sign him and watch him for at least a year in the AHL before you ship him for a pick that's a longshot to produce a player with anything close to his potential. Unless he demanded Hainsey-like numbers (did they ever talk turkey?) there's no reason to do this if you can possibly create the space. If need be, you have to off-load someone like Descoteaux or Razin, or any one of about 4 or 5 other guys before you send Chris packing for a fifth. Maybe Savard knows something we don't. I sure hope so. Because the way it looks to me the system is still jammed with a bunch of guys who we KNOW aren't going to be helping the big club (read: Darby, Poulin, Chouinard, Bouillon, Robidas, Landry, etc,etc.). The point of having an AHL farm club is to grow young talent. Dyment is young and he has talent. We should have growed him. Shoulda growed him good....

If we'd gotten a fourth, maybe I wouldn't be carping and yimmering about this, but a fifth is almost a throw away....

welcome back JV! Are you gonna change your perception of AS now?  ;D

[BadCompany]

HabsAddict said:

There are a hundred scouts in the NHL. Why did not one of those clubs jump out and offer something a lot more lucrative then a 5th rounder? Is the entire NHL scouting fraternity conspiring to steal Dyment from under my beloved St. Savard?  Did AS hate Dyment genetic sequence and wanted to get rid of him to the Wild of neverland?   Why did  the Rangers not offer a lot more for his abilities then the Wild? If he is that good a prospect, at least 20 other clubs would be jumping at the opportunity to grab him.

Quite the rant. I only quoted a bit of it, because frankly, I tend to tune out when the old folks start raving.

Why didn't any other club offer something else? How about I flip it on you - why didn't anybody offer more than Patrick Traverse for Eric Weinrich?? Eh tough guy? By your logic, Traverse was only worth Weinrich, cause obviously somebody would have offered more, right? RIGHT??

Look at your list of defencemen there. Of the 17 you listed, TEN were signed by SAVARD in the LAST YEAR!! Hasn't that been the debate all along? Why keep getting these mediocre players, at the expense of our younger players? You keep saying Dyment isn't worth much - why then, pray tell, did Martin Madden, Andre Savard's right-hand man, his Chief Scout, his assistant GM, why did he, as a representitive of the Savard regime, name Dyment the TENTH best Montreal prospect?? Top-ten baby. Not 17, or 18, or bag of pucks. Better than seven members of your illustrious list of all-star mediocre defencemen. They liked him. Higher than Jason Ward, higher than Arron Asham, higher than Vadim Tarasov, higher than Martie Jarventie, Mathieu Descoteaux, Remi Royer, Matt O'Dette and Marc-Andre Thinel. Again, they liked him.

You're right, there is a limit to the amount of players you can have under contract. That was my point in my original post - there just isn't enough room. Savard has clogged up the system with guys who gave us an immediate chance at winning - depth - and it worked admirably last year, resulting in two playoff rounds for our team. But it cost us Dyment, it will probably cost us Garon, and who knows who else it will or may have cost us.

As your argument that college players need to move onto the AHL in order to improve, why doesn't that argument apply to Dyment? You quote Dorion, who says Dyment has plateaued, and wasn't improving, but doesn't that simply mean he should have been moved to the AHL?? He was very good for the NCAA, and if he plateaued there, isn't that simply because of your "they need the AHL to improve" logic? By your logic, Dyment wasn't a stalled prospect, but simply needed the tougher competition of the AHL in order to improve. Aren't you falling on your own sword here?