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Post by Goldthorpe on Sept 9, 2003 16:40:38 GMT -5
If Gainey could get his hand on Comrie for a fair price, he would be stupid not to. His lack of size is completely irrelevant considering the kind of numbers he will puts in a few years.
But the price for this kind of players is prohibitive. I don't think the habs can affort him right now, because we need our prospects and can't affort to overpay. In a few years, when we will have a better picture of our core group, maybe. But until then, I think we should forget about him.
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Post by FormerLurker on Sept 9, 2003 16:41:29 GMT -5
still proves the point that size at center is way overrated. I agree that size at center is over-rated, but using an example from the seventies doesn't prove it. The game was very different then, and players were smaller than they are now on average. |
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Post by PTH on Sept 9, 2003 16:50:38 GMT -5
I'd love to see Comrie a Hab. We'd have a solid 1-2 combo at center and could build around them. When you have 2 high-level centers, it's much, much easier to get 2 balanced scoring lines and to move people around. Right now we essentially have to do everything to get Saku with the best wingers since we need his line's offense.
That being said, Comrie would not be cheap.
Oilers would probably have to get Hainsey, Garon and Ribeiro, along with their pick of a lesser prospect (Ryder or Beachemin, essentially) for Comrie and a spare part (the spare part would have been their #2 goalie if he hadn't been traded already). Perhaps we'd get a 3d rounder or so added in if we were lucky.
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Post by jl.roberts on Sept 9, 2003 18:12:11 GMT -5
The Oil like speed.
My package would start with Marcel Hossa. He's a big, talented softie that could be very good for Edmonton. Jan Bulis could be a guy the Oil would like, aswell. However, if we're bringing in Mike Comrie, you'd think our Mikey would go the other way. That being said, I don't know if Ribs would be the kind-of guy Kevin Lowe would be interested in. IF I were to guess, I would assume that Chris Higgins and Duncan Milroy would be two primary interests. A couple of gritty, talented guys, and one being a Westerner (Milroy).
Hossa and Bulis would be my offer, though. As much as I love Bulis' potential and talents, he CAN be replaced and to get you have to give. I know that both Jan and Marcel are two BIG guys, but Mike Comrie is worth all the size we've got, in my opinion. He's a heart and soul guy that I think could be magical with Chris Higgins to his left and Richard Zednik a la droite.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 9, 2003 19:31:25 GMT -5
The Oil like speed. My package would start with Marcel Hossa. He's a big, talented softie that could be very good for Edmonton. Jan Bulis could be a guy the Oil would like, aswell. However, if we're bringing in Mike Comrie, you'd think our Mikey would go the other way. That being said, I don't know if Ribs would be the kind-of guy Kevin Lowe would be interested in. IF I were to guess, I would assume that Chris Higgins and Duncan Milroy would be two primary interests. A couple of gritty, talented guys, and one being a Westerner (Milroy). Hossa and Bulis would be my offer, though. As much as I love Bulis' potential and talents, he CAN be replaced and to get you have to give. I know that both Jan and Marcel are two BIG guys, but Mike Comrie is worth all the size we've got, in my opinion. He's a heart and soul guy that I think could be magical with Chris Higgins to his left and Richard Zednik a la droite. Isn't it too early to be wrioting off Hossa and Bulis. If Hossa is half the player his brother is, he'll be better than Comrie. Bulis is poised for the best year of his career. (Not really saying that much). Last year was his semi breakout year and he's not that old. |
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Post by jl.roberts on Sept 9, 2003 19:42:52 GMT -5
I'm not writing them off whatsoever. Bulis is great, but he'll never be what Comrie is, even at this stage when Comrie is only 23. Hossa? I'd take Comrie over either Hossa any day of the week, but that's just my opinion. If Marcel were to be half of Marian, that would make him a 20 goal, 40 point 2nd-3rd liner. That's respectable, but by no means is it spectacular.
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HFRichard
Rookie
Future NHL Player Agent
Posts: 15
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Post by HFRichard on Sept 9, 2003 21:00:40 GMT -5
First, I want to let you all know that I live in Edmonton, watch all their training camps, and catch almost as many Oilers' games as I catch Habs' Games...and I can tell you one thing...most of you are WAY overrating Mike Comrie.
Comrie is NOT a first-line center. Yes, Comrie is young, but the Oilers develop their players extremely quickly, and I'm convinced that Comrie is not going to improve much more over the course of his career. He is better than Ribeiro at this point, but quite frankly, they are very similar players and he's not THAT much better...Comrie has just had more responsibility and has developed a bit better due to confidence. Both have tremendous stickhandling skills and great vision on the ice, and neither one is particularly fast or strong, though Comrie gets the edge in the strenght department. Also, both tend to be defensive liabilities.
To compare Comrie to Koivu...there is no comparison. Koivu is a thousand times faster, is much stronger on his skates and in the upper body and can handle the puck better than most on the boards; Comrie can't, and though he has a lot of muscle, he doesn't use it as effectively because of his speed issues. However, Comrie does have excellent hockey sense and finds himself scoring a lot of "garbage goals;" not pretty, but they do go in. Though it's tough to prove with stats, Koivu's shot is also significantly better...both stronger and accurate; Koivu can score a goal from the high slot. Comrie's shot is not a threat; like i said, his goals tend to come as a result of being on the doorstep, often as a result of Smyth's hard work, or a rebound off Carter's shot when he was in town. Koivu's passing skills are also far superior to Comrie's; Koivu makes his linemates better; Comrie's linemates make him better.
Now don't get me wrong. I'd love to have a Koivu-Comrie 1-2 punch and do not believe that the size would be an issue. Both players have proven that they can play against much bigger, stronger guys. However, here's some stuff to consider:
I think the most realistic offer is Ribeiro, Beauchemin and a mid-late draft pick for Comrie. Ribeiro would be given a solid chance, the Oilers need a #6-7 d-man, and the pick makes up for a bit of uncertainty. IMO, Ribeiro in edmonton could be just as good, if not better, than Comrie in Edmonton. Also, this is cost-effective for the Oil.
Bulis and whatever...doesn't matter. Bulis, right now, is a much better player than Mike Comrie and will be for the duration of both players' careers.
Garon for Comrie...something like that could work; Garon is looking for his "chance," and Edmonton stated they were actively looking for a #2-3 goalie. Garon has the potential to knock Salo out of the #1 role, as Salo has been a disappointment the past season and a bit. However, Ty Conklin deserves his shot (I don't think he can do it but...) due to his play with Hamilton, and I doubt Oilers' brass is too high on Garon because the game Garon played against Edmonton, he played very poorly. As Edmonton, I take this trade in a heart-beat, and same with Montreal given that the Theo situation is under control. However, I think Montreal needs to value Garon as a backup plan, and Edmonton does not realize Garon's level of skill.
Hossa for Comrie...Quite frankly, from Montreal's perspective this has to look fair just because of Hossa's potential. Hossa could become a much much better player than Comrie, especially in Edmonton. If Montreal considers dealing Hossa to Edmonton, they better have discussed a deal involving Havlat and Hossa first because Ottawa would have a higher value for Hossa. BTW, Havlat is twice the player Comrie is.
Also, don't even think of Montreal dealing Perreault or Brisebois or any other high-priced player to Edmonton. It won't happen because Edmonton has to be one of the most cost-effective teams in the league or else it won't survive. The Oilers also don't want our garbage (Traverse, Dackell etc..)
Another thing, Never mention Georges Laraque in a trade rumor. He has openly stated that he will retire if he is traded from Edmonton, and even if he does only play 30 games in a season, he is going to generate more revenue for the Edmonton Oilers than they will end up paying for him in salary. He is a local hero, he loves it here, we love him here.
And for my last Comrie comparison; Chris Higgins. Higgins is faster, stronger, bigger, more defensively aware, and isn't too far behind in terms of hockey sense. Comrie has a better vision of the ice and will put up more points, but IMO, even as early as next season, Higgins could be a much more valuable player than Mike Comrie. Comrie's value is measured ONLY by the points he puts up and his emotion on the ice when he is "in a groove," though he is streaky. I'd at least like to see Higgins get a chance on the second line before I see Comrie out there...unless we can get Comrie for a "reasonable" price.
Lines I'd like to see if Comrie joined Montreal:
Bulis-Koivu-Ward
Hossa/Higgins-Comrie-Zednik
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Post by PTH on Sept 9, 2003 21:10:50 GMT -5
I think the most realistic offer is Ribeiro, Beauchemin and a mid-late draft pick for Comrie. Seems like ridiculously little to me. Ribeiro has proven very very little.... Beauchemin will never be anything special, and Edmonton has their own kids and reclamation projects to give chances to. Comrie is 18 months younger than Bulis, and has better totals, and has been playing center, which is a key position. Garon cleared waivers over the course of last season, which should remind us that his value isn't all that high. We could try and get away with a package centered on Bulis, or we can offer a package based around Hainsey or Hossa, along with at least one of Garon and Ribeiro, and even then, this isn't all that much IMO. Comrie is a young and productive center; plenty of teams might want him. Still, I wonder, if a comparison could be made to Marc Savard, I might be overrating Comrie. But I don't think so. |
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Post by Patty Roy on Sept 9, 2003 21:24:47 GMT -5
No i think you are right on with Comrie PTH...the Oil would laugh at Ribeiro, Beauchemin and a mid round pick for Comrie. Let's not forget that Comrie is a kid who scored 33 goals as a 21 year old. To put things into perspective, how would you feel about dealing Zednik to the Oil for Jason Chimera, Marc-Andre Bergeron and a mid-round pick? Didn't think so...
My guess is that the Oilers would demand immediate help in any deal involving Comrie...no make that immediate, cheap help. Jan Bulis comes to mind, but he wouldn't get a deal done by himself. I think that guys like Garon, Hossa, Hainsey and Ribeiro would also interest the Oilers, but we would certainly be looking at a package deal here.
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Post by seventeen on Sept 9, 2003 22:28:46 GMT -5
Habs of the 70s . Lemaire, Risebrough. For clarity's sake, Risebrough was probably on the 4th line. Lemaire, Shutt, Lafleur for a while, Pete Mahovlich (6'5") Shutt Lafleur earlier. Beliveau in 70 and 71. Mondou was in there for a while. Can't remember who was 2nd line centre after Mahovlich moved on. Jarvis, Gainey and (insert name) was the main 3rd/checking line. Risebrough, Tremblay and Lambert were the crash 4th line. |
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Post by seventeen on Sept 9, 2003 22:33:44 GMT -5
To comment on Comrie's speed, I think he's a much better skater than Ribeiro. He has to keep up with Smyth and (last year) Carter. Does Edmonton have a slow offensive centre? Have they ever?
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HFRichard
Rookie
Future NHL Player Agent
Posts: 15
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Post by HFRichard on Sept 9, 2003 23:25:41 GMT -5
I have to agree that Comrie is a much better player than Ribeiro, but that 33 goals he scored is completely inflated. Comrie is a product of being the son of one of Edmonton's most popular business men. No doubt he is a good hockey player, but his stats suggest that he is a much better hockey player than he really is. From the start, Comrie had the opporutnity to play on the top line. The Oilers dropped Weight's linemates to 2nd line (Weight ended up with Cleary and so that Comrie would have support, in anticipation that Weight was going to be gone the next season. The Oilers had to build a star...a local hero...a boy from Edmonton's suburbs who happened to be the son of one of Edmonton's favorite business men...FAST...so that the media would accept the fact that they would have to get rid of Weight. Comrie fit the bill.
In his rookie year, Comrie put up 22pts playing 2nd line and PP with Smyth and Guerin. In his 2nd year, he was forced to be the #1 center, playing top ice time with two very good top-line players...Smyth and Carter. Just to add a bit of proof, both Comrie and Carter had 60pts in 82 games; Comrie had 33 goals while Carter had 32 assists...I'm willing to bet that 15 of those goals are purely as a result of a rebound on Carter's shot. Smyth only played 61 games, but he had 35 assists...I'm willing to bet that another 15 of Comrie's goals were scored on rebounds from scrums in front of the net caused by Smyth. The other 3 goals were likely scored due to Comrie's individual skills. On another note, Comrie had only 27 assists, while his linemates ammassed about 50 goals! Obviously, a majority of those goals were scored WITHOUT the help of Mike Comrie.
Last season, Comrie started the year with Carter and Smyth and continued his pace of points from the previous season. However, when Edmonton traded Carter, it screwed up their line combinations. Marchant moved up to the top line with Smyth, as well as Hemsky, who showed that he belongs on the top 2 lines. Naturally, like in Comrie's case, Marchant's offensive statistics soared this year! Trust me, he didn't become a better player this season; Smyth and Hemsky just make linemates better (and Carter is better than Hemsky at doing that because he uses his blistering shot a lot more). Anyway, as a result, Comrie got pushed to the 2nd line to play with Mike York and Radek Dvorak, and his production basically STOPPED! He became useless. Dvorak is a guy who can do things himself; he doesn't make linemates better, but he also doesn't make them worse...he can do things himself. Same thing goes for York, though he has an added defensive element to his game and is a much better passer. Nonetheless, Comrie just plain stopped being involved in scoring opportunities. He doesn't create them as often as one might expect by his point totals. Now, on to the most problematic part of Comrie's game...his commitment to defence. He has come to the realization that he only has to concentrate on the part of the game he wants to; everything else is given to him, just like it was thoughout his whole life being the son of a multimillionaire. All he knows how to do is get points! He has very little else to offer to the game, and is detrimental to the team in most other aspects. Anyway, here's the best proof I can provide without showing you guys hockey games:
Todd Marchant: +13
Ales Hemsky: +5
Ryan Smyth: +5
Radek Dvorak: -6
Mike York: -8 ---was BY FAR Edmonton's most defensively responsible player after Marchant moved to the top line and forgot about his d-responsibilities
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Mike Comrie: -18
The next worse plus-minus on the team was minus-11. Comrie was 7 +/- points worse than the second worst player on the team in that category, after looking at a pretty smooth trend down the Oilers' lines. If analyzed properly, +/- can be an excellent indicator, and I feel that I've used it properly here. Edmonton was a better team than Montreal last year, and Comrie was still 4 +/- points worse than ANY Montreal Canadiens' player...Brisebois and Mckay were only -14 and Perreault was -11.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Comrie plays, not to make his team better, but to make himself look better. He can get points, but it's at the expense of a lot more. Also, when he's in a slump, he brings the entire team down. He never takes responsibility, and he always finds something to blame it on. Comrie feeds off his linemates and does not make his linemates better hockey players. The emotions I have towards Comrie most parallel those that I have with Perreault in Montreal; you love him on the surface because he can put up some points, but once you get past all the hype and the red lights, you question whether you would even want to have him on your team because he is so detrimental to the team in other aspects of the game, and you wonder if his offensive production actually does outweigh all of the negatives.
Also, I just want to mention that I am not alone in my opinion on Comrie. A majority of the people I talk to about hockey that follow the Oilers have very similar opinions of Mikey. Also, just to throw one more piece of info out there. He threatened becoming an UFA and forced Edmonton to sign him to a top-end Entry Level Contract three years ago...the same one Tuomo Ruutu was fighting for this offseason, in which he earned almost 3.5 million per year after hitting his incentives. Also, this is about the 2nd or 3rd time in the past 9 months that he has reportedly requested a trade. The Edmonton Oilers built him up as their golden boy to replace Weight, but ever since he was drafted, he has been a little cry-baby and has not been an appropriate role model for other athletes in the Edmonton area.
Being both a Habs fan and an Oilers' fan, I can say with a very unbiased opinion that I would take Bulis over Comrie in a heartbeat.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 10, 2003 2:39:38 GMT -5
Seems like ridiculously little to me. Ribeiro has proven very very little.... Beauchemin will never be anything special, and Edmonton has their own kids and reclamation projects to give chances to. Comrie is 18 months younger than Bulis, and has better totals, and has been playing center, which is a key position. Garon cleared waivers over the course of last season, which should remind us that his value isn't all that high. We could try and get away with a package centered on Bulis, or we can offer a package based around Hainsey or Hossa, along with at least one of Garon and Ribeiro, and even then, this isn't all that much IMO. Comrie is a young and productive center; plenty of teams might want him. Still, I wonder, if a comparison could be made to Marc Savard, I might be overrating Comrie. But I don't think so. Beauchemin is the opposite of Brisebois. Limited offence, steady positional defense +/-, reliable, improving. You can't have a defense consisting only of offensive defensemen. We need a Terry Harper, Jacques Laperierre, Tom Johnson, Don Awrey, Butch Bouchard to go along with the J.C. Termblays. Beauchemin will be an unspectacular keeper and contributor. He will solidify our defense and not cough up the puck or create 2 on ones. With Ribs, the best is yet to come. I could have had good stats with the ice time and partners that Comrie had and Ribs would have too. |
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Post by blny on Sept 10, 2003 9:01:30 GMT -5
I'd take him in a flash (heatbeat has been used). Comrie can skate, he has great vision, and can score. Last season was an off year for him, but the injury to the hand/wrist didn't help. When it comes to size, I've always felt that skill can overcome it, with heart. Comrie has heart. Hey, he faught Ilya Kovalchuk. Seriously though, he plays big. My only concern with small centres is faceoffs, but that can be overcome too. If there were a chance for this to happen I'd jump all over it.
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Post by Montrealer on Sept 10, 2003 9:09:54 GMT -5
Wow.
I never knew that, especially in today's NHL, you could become a point-a-game player just by management wanting it for a native son.
I wish they pulled that trick more often, especially here! C'mon Audette, you can do it! ;D
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Post by BadCompany on Sept 10, 2003 9:10:55 GMT -5
Comrie has been in the league for 3 years now. He has asked to be traded in two of those years. Away from his hometown. Possibly because he doesn't like the way the media criticized his play in the playoffs.
Geez, if he can't handle the pressure of playing in Edmonton, how is he going to handle the pressure of playing in Montreal. Especially if we give up a king's ransom, including home-grown talents like Garon and Ribeiro??
I see red-flags all over the place with this one. Unless he came relatively cheap, I'd pass...
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Post by Forum Ghost on Sept 10, 2003 23:55:02 GMT -5
Comrie has been in the league for 3 years now. He has asked to be traded in two of those years. Away from his hometown. Possibly because he doesn't like the way the media criticized his play in the playoffs. Geez, if he can't handle the pressure of playing in Edmonton, how is he going to handle the pressure of playing in Montreal. Especially if we give up a king's ransom, including home-grown talents like Garon and Ribeiro?? I see red-flags all over the place with this one. Unless he came relatively cheap, I'd pass... I never take a liking to players who ask to be traded when the going gets tough. If he can't stand the heat in Edmonton, I don't think he wants to know how hot the kitchen can get in Montreal. I'm with you on this BC. I'd pass as well... unless the offer is Ribeiro and Beauchemin.  Also, when he's in a slump, he brings the entire team down. He never takes responsibility, and he always finds something to blame it on. If this is true, then I wouldn't touch Comrie with a 10-foot pole. |
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