Thoughts for next season

[blny]

I know, I know. It's too early to think about who and for how much, especially with labour uncertainty. I'm bored, it's lunch time, and I needed something to fill the time. In perusing the list of Group IIIs (the Group IIs list is far too big) there are some possibilities depending on how BG wants to go.

Ideally, Kovalev and Dowd will be back. Kovalev brings the elite player we need and should be available at a price Gillett can swallow. Dowd is a cheap, effective, fit as our third line centre. He's got a fair amount of gas in the tank for his age, and showed his worth in the faceoff circle this year. However, should Gainey decide to go in other directions here is a small list from around the league.

1. Rob Dimaio, RW. True he isn't a centre, but he's as tough as nails and cheap. He made less than a million this year, and likely wouldn't want more than that. BG knows him well. His only knock is age I guess. He's 35. Here are his stats.

2. Brendan Shanahan, LW. If BG can't land Kovalev, this is a route I'd consider. Shanny is old, at 35, but I think he'd be more effective than when we brought in McKay. Shanny would fit nicely on the second line, providing toughness and some scoring. Brendan chipped in good numbers this year. I also think he'd be cheaper than Kovalev. Probably $3 million. He'd be an undeniable leader too. Here are his stats.

3. If Kovalev can't be resigned, and BG wants "flash" on Saku's RW, maybe Palffy would fit. Ziggy made an arm and a leg this year at $7 million. He'd have to take the kind of cut we're gonna ask Alex to take. He's not as big as Alex, but super talented. He could do great things with a centre like Saku. Here are his stats.

4. Wes Walz, C. If Montreal doesn't opt to retain Dowd they may want to look no further than this other Minnesota Wild free agent. Wes brings a lot of speed, the same size, and is RH. He's not a physical presence, but at $850,000 he's a bargain. He's probably looking for something in that $1 million range. He can also chip in with regular offense. Here are his stats.

5. Keith Primeau, C. This is not a real possibility, but he's the kind of horse we do need. Keith is a great combination of size, speed, grit, and mean. He made a lot of money this year, and I seriously doubt Gillett would swallow deals for Kovalev and Primeau. If Kovalev isn't signed this may be a route to take. Primeau as one "good" contract left in him, and could really help us against some of the big teams. Imagine him against Thornton or Lecavalier. He'll be in high demand this summer. IMO he may be the one with the most offers. Here are his stats.

6. Dallas Drake, RW. Dallas has a rep for being a great grinder and open ice hitter, if not a little dirty. He's not afraid to get his nose dirty. He's a lot like Dimaio in style and age. Drake is bigger and puts up more offense though. Here are his stats.

7. Mike Ricci, C. He's a left shot, but brings a lot of the qualities BG is looking for. Experience, size, grit, and leadership. He made $3 million this year, but may be a mid card player that takes a hit salary wise. Here are his stats.

[Bob]

I don't think I would pursue any of the players you mentioned, not even Shanahan. Shanny is a fixture in Detroit and you would have to open the vaults to get him... the others simply don't interest me at all.

[roke]

I thought Walz signed a contract extension with Minnesota.

Here's the link from TSN. www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/news_story.asp?ID=74167&hubName=nhl-wild

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

BLNY said:

I know, I know. It's too early to think about who and for how much, especially with labour uncertainty. I'm bored, it's lunch time, and I needed something to fill the time. In perusing the list of Group IIIs (the Group IIs list is far too big) there are some possibilities depending on how BG wants to go.

Ideally, Kovalev and Dowd will be back. Kovalev brings the elite player we need and should be available at a price Gillett can swallow. Dowd is a cheap, effective, fit as our third line centre. He's got a fair amount of gas in the tank for his age, and showed his worth in the faceoff circle this year. However, should Gainey decide to go in other directions here is a small list from around the league.

1. Rob Dimaio, RW. True he isn't a centre, but he's as tough as nails and cheap. He made less than a million this year, and likely wouldn't want more than that. BG knows him well. His only knock is age I guess. He's 35. Here are his stats.

2. Brendan Shanahan, LW. If BG can't land Kovalev, this is a route I'd consider. Shanny is old, at 35, but I think he'd be more effective than when we brought in McKay. Shanny would fit nicely on the second line, providing toughness and some scoring. Brendan chipped in good numbers this year. I also think he'd be cheaper than Kovalev. Probably $3 million. He'd be an undeniable leader too. Here are his stats.

3. If Kovalev can't be resigned, and BG wants "flash" on Saku's RW, maybe Palffy would fit. Ziggy made an arm and a leg this year at $7 million. He'd have to take the kind of cut we're gonna ask Alex to take. He's not as big as Alex, but super talented. He could do great things with a centre like Saku. Here are his stats.

4. Wes Walz, C. If Montreal doesn't opt to retain Dowd they may want to look no further than this other Minnesota Wild free agent. Wes brings a lot of speed, the same size, and is RH. He's not a physical presence, but at $850,000 he's a bargain. He's probably looking for something in that $1 million range. He can also chip in with regular offense. Here are his stats.

5. Keith Primeau, C. This is not a real possibility, but he's the kind of horse we do need. Keith is a great combination of size, speed, grit, and mean. He made a lot of money this year, and I seriously doubt Gillett would swallow deals for Kovalev and Primeau. If Kovalev isn't signed this may be a route to take. Primeau as one "good" contract left in him, and could really help us against some of the big teams. Imagine him against Thornton or Lecavalier. He'll be in high demand this summer. IMO he may be the one with the most offers. Here are his stats.

6. Dallas Drake, RW. Dallas has a rep for being a great grinder and open ice hitter, if not a little dirty. He's not afraid to get his nose dirty. He's a lot like Dimaio in style and age. Drake is bigger and puts up more offense though. Here are his stats.

7. Mike Ricci, C. He's a left shot, but brings a lot of the qualities BG is looking for. Experience, size, grit, and leadership. He made $3 million this year, but may be a mid card player that takes a hit salary wise. Here are his stats.

Your postulations are attractive, we would become larger and faster, but we would also become older. We realistically are a couple of years away from SERIOUS contention, and , as Sidhartha said "younger guys get better while older guys get older."
(maybe he never said it but he would have if he ever watched a NHL playoff game)

[LeafSuck]

Keith Primeau has been OUTSTANDING for the Flyers in the playoffs. I have been saying for years that the Habs need him. I wish Babs would have made a deal for him before the season started. His physical play would have been huge against the Lightning, and if we had him, we'd still be playing.

[blny]

Bob said:

I don't think I would pursue any of the players you mentioned, not even Shanahan. Shanny is a fixture in Detroit and you would have to open the vaults to get him... the others simply don't interest me at all.

That's fine. Who does? I'm merely trying to open up discussion. The players I mentioned are the type BG may consider if he plans to upgrade our size and grit. Many of them aren't overly expensive, yet bring a lot of toughness to a lineup. They are also responsible players. Cost is a concern, so going out and spending huge dollars on someone to fill roles on a third line aren't an option. With the exception of Primeau and Shanny, the rest fit that bill pretty darn well.

I mention Shanny simply for the reason that LW is a large hole on the team. He's still more than capable of producing quality points, and is an undeniable leader. Is he a "fixture" in Detroit? Yes. However, Detroit is one of the teams that is going to have to pare costs down and he may be let go. Shanny is known to be durable to boot. He's the type that could add a lot to a Ribeiro line.

I'm not saying that BG should go right out and get him and him and him. All I'm saying is that short of a trade, these are players that would fill roles that need filling for the team to progress further in the playoffs. With the exception of Primeau and Shanny, they're all guys that wouldn't be expected to do more than a set role.

I have to wonder too. You'r not interested in a guy like Primeau or Ricci? You obviously don't watch the series these guys play in. Ricci is a legit Selke guy, and a great team guy. Primeau is one of the best two way guys in the league. There are few big-men with his game. Keith has speed, a nose for the net, a willingness to get it dirty, a physical presence, and strong leadership skills. He's everything a Habs team is looking for. Period.

[blny]

Habs_fan_in_LA said:

Your postulations are attractive, we would become larger and faster, but we would also become older. We realistically are a couple of years away from SERIOUS contention, and , as Sidhartha said "younger guys get better while older guys get older."
(maybe he never said it but he would have if he ever watched a NHL playoff game)

I mentioned the age thing on a couple of the guys. I agree that we're not quite ready to be legit contenders. However, the Habs' toolbox is missing some elements. Many of these guys would fill that hole. Many of the areas BG needs to fill can't be realistically filled by young players.

We can't expect a guy like Higgins to be our third line centre for at least a couple of seasons. That position, more than any other, requires experience. We have to upgrade in the character department, and an upgrade at third line centre wouldn't hurt. If Kovalev is signed, then it limits what can be spent on that role. Dowd is an obvious choice.

I realise that a couple of the guys are RW's (that I mentioned). If the team decides not to implement a youngster in a fourth line role they'd be good choices.

None of these moves would mortgage the future. If a team is semi-close to being able to contend legitimately, every effort should be made to make that improvement. If BG can retool the character spots without hurting the future I'm all for it.

Right now there are a lot of openings on the bottom two lines.

Bulis - ? - ?
? - Begin - ?

Ward will be the RW on one of the two lines. If the org decides to go with youth in one of the spots, Ward will likely get the third line. He deserves a serious look in that capacity with his performance prior to injury. Langdon could be resigned, and should be, but if not, there is another spot on the fourth line. If he isn't, I doubt Begin will be flanked by two rookies. I could envision a scenario with Higgins on the LW of the 4th line and a vet signed for a fourth line role. Another reason I mentioned Dimaio and Drake is that both players are noted PKers (especially Drake) and both can do some "policing". If the team decided to look for a multitasker instead of Langdon, either guy would be very good choices. Then there is the third line centre. If not Dowd, who? It better not be a rookie, and I don't see Begin as good enough in the circle to take the role full time. It is a possibility though.

[Forum Ghost]

Great work in putting that list together BLNY.

Aside from Shanahan and Palffy, it is definitely a great list of grinders that could be considered as possibilities for Gainey.

• With the Wings now out of the playoffs, there could be some major changes in Motown and the betting is that players like Shanahan are on the outs. If Shanny is let go then I have a hunch that he'll be heavily sought after.
  
  Palffy would be great, but I don't think that the Kings would be willing to part with him.
  
  If Kovalev is not re-signed, a guy that I would look into would be Selanne. I know that many of you would disagree because of the poor season that he's had, but I still think that Selanne has some great hockey left in him. I think he failed in Colorado this year because Granato failed to utilize him properly. He never seemed to fit in with the Avs and his play reflected that. In any case, since he's coming off of a sub-par season, he would be available for cheap and we all know about the chemistry that him and Koivu have.
  
  I really hope that Kovalev is re-signed, but if he's not I think that Selanne would be able to rekindle his touch in Montreal.
  
  
• Keith Primeau is proving to be the total package in this year's playoffs. He's the heart and soul of the Flyers and I doubt that Clarke lets him go. But if he's available I would give an arm and a leg to get him. The guy can do it all.
  
  
• Guys like DiMaio, Drake and Ricci would be great candidates for the Habs' third and fourth lines. Out of the three, Ricci is the one who I would think is most likely to stay with his team. The Sharks are a team on the rise and would sorely miss his leadership.
  
  But with Juneau retired and the possibility of Sundstrom and Dackell being let go, Gainey will have to address the situation of his depleted PK unit. Too bad Walz is locked in with the Wild. He would be the guy at the top of my list.
  
  

[blny]

Forum said:

Great work in putting that list together BLNY.

Aside from Shanahan and Palffy, it is definitely a great list of grinders that could be considered as possibilities for Gainey.

• With the Wings now out of the playoffs, there could be some major changes in Motown and the betting is that players like Shanahan are on the outs. If Shanny is let go then I have a hunch that he'll be heavily sought after.
  
  Palffy would be great, but I don't think that the Kings would be willing to part with him.
  
  If Kovalev is not re-signed, a guy that I would look into would be Selanne. I know that many of you would disagree because of the poor season that he's had, but I still think that Selanne has some great hockey left in him. I think he failed in Colorado this year because Granato failed to utilize him properly. He never seemed to fit in with the Avs and his play reflected that. In any case, since he's coming off of a sub-par season, he would be available for cheap and we all know about the chemistry that him and Koivu have.
  
  I really hope that Kovalev is re-signed, but if he's not I think that Selanne would be able to rekindle his touch in Montreal.
  
  
• Keith Primeau is proving to be the total package in this year's playoffs. He's the heart and soul of the Flyers and I doubt that Clarke lets him go. But if he's available I would give an arm and a leg to get him. The guy can do it all.
  
  
• Guys like DiMaio, Drake and Ricci would be great candidates for the Habs' third and fourth lines. Out of the three, Ricci is the one who I would think is most likely to stay with his team. The Sharks are a team on the rise and would sorely miss his leadership.
  
  But with Juneau retired and the possibility of Sundstrom and Dackell being let go, Gainey will have to address the situation of his depleted PK unit. Too bad Walz is locked in with the Wild. He would be the guy at the top of my list.
  
  

Thanks FG. You're right that Selanne would be a good plan b. I think he would be available at more of a bargain than the others too. There is no doubt Teemu and Saku (the "ewwwww" line ;D) have had great chemistry in the past. TS would likely be a 30g man along Saku's wing.

I didn't realize that Wes was locked up. The site I use for free agents hasn't got him showing as signed yet.

I can see Palffy being difficult to obtain. With clouds of doubt over Allison and Deadmarsh, the Kings need to muster all the offense they can. They may be willing to retain Palffy at nearly any cost.

[franko]

Forum said:

If Kovalev is not re-signed, a guy that I would look into would be Selanne. I know that many of you would disagree because of the poor season that he's had, but I still think that Selanne has some great hockey left in him. I think he failed in Colorado this year because Granato failed to utilize him properly. He never seemed to fit in with the Avs and his play reflected that. In any case, since he's coming off of a sub-par season, he would be available for cheap and we all know about the chemistry that him and Koivu have.

BLNY said:

Thanks FG. You're right that Selanne would be a good plan b. I think he would be available at more of a bargain than the others too. There is no doubt Teemu and Saku (the "ewwwww" line ;D) have had great chemistry in the past. TS would likely be a 30g man along Saku's wing.

Ah, gentlemen, I fear that I must disagree. In the past Selanne has had adequate to very good seasons, but he has never come through as the go-to guy in the playoffs. We'd wind up with another leading scorer in the regular season that disappears in the playoffs.

CJ and BG may be able to change that, of course, but I'd stick with Kovalev and take a pass on Selanne (unless we get him on the very cheap).

[blny]

franko said:

Ah, gentlemen, I fear that I must disagree. In the past Selanne has had adequate to very good seasons, but he has never come through as the go-to guy in the playoffs. We'd wind up with another leading scorer in the regular season that disappears in the playoffs.

CJ and BG may be able to change that, of course, but I'd stick with Kovalev and take a pass on Selanne (unless we get him on the very cheap).

I think I can speak for FG when I say he and I agree that Kovalev is the man to sign. However, Selanne would be a cheapish alternative if AK can't be signed. Selanne's market value is lower, and likely could be had this summer for $3-4 million. Neither of us are saying for get AK and go for TS, we're merely agreeing on an alternative that could happen.

[Rimmer]

I'd rather go with Kariya than Selanne on Koivu's wing if Kovalev isn't signed because he's much younger (29) and, at this stage in their careers, a better player. this is, of course, only if we could sign him for a reasonable price (Koivu-Kovalev range) on a longer term contract. this doesn't address the size issue but, frankly, neither does Selanne.

I would consider Selanne only as a consolation signing, i.e. if we are unable to re-sign Kovalev or sign another better and younger player. in that case giving him a two-year contract would give us a decent first line until Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin or someone else is ready to take his spot or until a better UFA becomes available.

I would also like to keep one spot on the second line open for our younger players (Hossa, Pleky, Perezhogin if he's suspension isn't too long) because they should at least have a chance to crack the line up and I don't think they are suited for checking line roles except, maybe, Plekanec and/or Higgins.

R.

[blny]

Rimmer said:

I'd rather go with Kariya than Selanne on Koivu's wing if Kovalev isn't signed because he's much younger (29) and, at this stage in their careers, a better player. this is, of course, only if we could sign him for a reasonable price (Koivu-Kovalev range) on a longer term contract. this doesn't address the size issue but, frankly, neither does Selanne.

I would consider Selanne only as a consolation signing, i.e. if we are unable to re-sign Kovalev or sign another better and younger player. in that case giving him a two-year contract would give us a decent first line until Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin or someone else is ready to take his spot or until a better UFA becomes available.

I would also like to keep one spot on the second line open for our younger players (Hossa, Pleky, Perezhogin if he's suspension isn't too long) because they should at least have a chance to crack the line up and I don't think they are suited for checking line roles except, maybe, Plekanec and/or Higgins.

R.

I dunno about Kariya. He's far too fragile. Do we really need to go down that kind of road again? No doubting the talent, but I just don't think it would be a good move. I also think Kariya will be after more money than Selanne. He's likely to seek more than $6m a season. Of the three, Kovalev is the only one I'd remotely consider paying that much.

I think the option of youth on the second line LW is a real possibility. Hossa could get another shot. Maybe Higgins too. Anything but Dags. In mentioning a veteran as a second line LW, I only say do it if BG can't sign Kovalev. Break up the money for him into one RW a tier below him and spend the rest on a second line LW. Or vice versa, allowing Zed to move back to the right.

Either way, there are some options for BG. Some tough decisions too, but some really nice options.

[Forum Ghost]

BLNY said:

I think the option of youth on the second line LW is a real possibility. Hossa could get another shot. Maybe Higgins too.

I really hope that one of these players can step up next season.

I don't think I'd be able to take another year of Pierre Dagenais.

[NWTHabsFan]

Forum said:

I really hope that one of these players can step up next season.

I don't think I'd be able to take another year of Pierre Dagenais.

I find it funny that we Habs' fans of the true fanatical nature really do have a love-hate relationship with this dear old franchise. As much as we want glory returned to les glorieux, we also need to have our scapegoat to vent and on which to pick.

Gainey has really run amok with this by buying out the contracts of past recipients and custodians of the goat mantle this past season (Cjerk, AuDebt) and has kept others in the shadows of Steeltown and out of sight, and hopefully eternally out of mind (Traverse).

So, with the search never ending, the fanatical masses have almost to a person named Pierre "Oops, did that practice shot hurt?" Dagenais as the latest hooved wonder. Fear not tall Dags, you have some good company.

[Minor changes for next year]

Personally I don't see wholesale changes. I expect the team to try and make improvements from within along with minor additions via free agency or trade.

Of course all of this goes out the window if a big strong #2 center and another tough defenseman become available at bargan basement prices.

The free agents Gainey will probably concentrate on already play for the Habs (Dowd and Kovalev). And he already knows they fit in well.

I can see Gainey and Julien once again working about three rookies into the lineup because they see the merit in infusing youth, enthusiasm and potential into the mix.

Top candidates to make the team from the farm include Plekanec, Hossa, Higgins, Beauchemin and Hainsey. Pick three out of that five.

With about three veterans probably gone (Juneau, Quintal and Dackell) along with three strong "maybes" for departure (Sundstrom, Perreault and Dagenais), that would leave three more spots open for free agents or new acquisitions via the trade route.

If Sundstrom and Perreault would agree to re-sign at reasonable salaries and with reasonable expectations for ice time, that would leave one spot open.

Who would be the one free-agent forward that would really complement our team and do it at the right price?

On defense, I foresee the team looking for one more player to upgrade size and strength. That would leave Bouillon or Beauchemin as the 7th. The player closest to filling that role could be Hainsey but he isn't a bruising player.

And who would be the one free-agent defensemen that could help take us to the next level? Once again we need to keep costs in mind (someone willing to play for $3 million per year or less).

Fantasies about players like Primeau and Shanahan are just that. Primeau because he is too valuable to Philly and Shanahan because of cost and age considerations.

[Rimmer]

BLNY said:

I dunno about Kariya. He's far too fragile. Do we really need to go down that kind of road again? No doubting the talent, but I just don't think it would be a good move.

I don't see him being significantly more fragile than usual. this season he missed 31 games due to a wrist injury and some games in the playoffs due to a sprained ankle. it looks to me like everyday injuries that can happen to anybody (slashing, falling awkwardly etc.). he had played a full 82-game schedule season in 2001/2002 and 2002/2003. IIRC, he had some problems in the past with concussions but I don't remember if it was a one time thing or something that occured more than once or twice.

I agree, he's not worth Kovalev's money ($6.6M) but I don't think he will demand it after the season he just had and with the situation the FA market will be in this year.

R.

[blny]

NWTHabsFan said:

I find it funny that we Habs' fans of the true fanatical nature really do have a love-hate relationship with this dear old franchise. As much as we want glory returned to les glorieux, we also need to have our scapegoat to vent and on which to pick.

Gainey has really run amok with this by buying out the contracts of past recipients and custodians of the goat mantle this past season (Cjerk, AuDebt) and has kept others in the shadows of Steeltown and out of sight, and hopefully eternally out of mind (Traverse).

So, with the search never ending, the fanatical masses have almost to a person named Pierre "Oops, did that practice shot hurt?" Dagenais as the latest hooved wonder. Fear not tall Dags, you have some good company.

I don't think anyone should characterize Pierre as a scapegoat. He's not to blame for anything. He has limited skills. Period. To want, and expect, an upgrade over him is natural. Dags did do what Audebt couldn't - score some goals. He does deserver credit for that. However, he's just too darn slow. Perhaps he would pay the price in front, a la Andreychuk, one could look passed his shortcomings. Unfortunately Pierre doesn't appear willing to do that. If our second line LW is to be a perimeter player, he needs to have speed and skill.

[britten]

I'm looking for the habs to lose five players: Perrault, Juneau, Dackell, Sundstrom, Quintal. Of these, 4 are regulars.

Ward takes one place, Komi takes another. Leaving 2 places open. Plekanec is ready, and Higgins also.

As for who we would like to sign as a UFA. I'm looking at Steve Konawalchuk and Rob Niedermeyer as third line center rather than Dowd, and Jon Klemm or Brad Matvichuk on defense.

[seventeen]

I hope Dagenais never darkens our dressing room again. Just another marginal minor leaguer we needed temporarily. He is not a long term solution.

The absolute best guy we could get/keep is Kovalev. Undoubtedly one of the true talents in the league, a true power forward who can take hits and bull through the holding-hooking of today's NHL, as well as a proven playoff performer. There isn't another guy out there close and I don't think we appreciated his abilities until he displayed them for us in the playoffs.

One important thing we need to appreciate is to not get two such players. You want a Kovalev, and you also want Zednik, who brings a lot to the party, but knows his role and that he's not a Kovalev. Too many chefs..ya know. You need sous chefs, busboys and waiters too. Walz would have been great. The only other guys I'd be interested in, if they were available are Primeau and Ricci. Remember back several months when Primeau was torched on our board as a prospective Hab? Opinions on him were lower than a snake's belly in Death Valley. I doubt either will be on any team other than Philly and SJ, though. Guys like that are rarely foolishly let go

[HabbaDasher]

Dagenais might not be a permanent solution, but he did provide 17 goals (4th on the team) in just 50 games.
For that reason alone, he may be worth keeping in reserve on the farm.
Yes he is frustrating to watch when not scoring.
He must be used sparingly and wisely.

I'd be happy to see one winger spot left open for Hossa, Higgins, and Dagenais to compete over.
Too bad Perezhogin won't be joining in for a while.

I'd also like to see Plekanec and Gratton get a bit of ice time at center.

Gainey's biggest need at forward, IMO, is to sign Kovalev and find to a permanent LW for Ribeiro.

[Forum Ghost]

HabbaDasher said:

Dagenais might not be a permanent solution, but he did provide 17 goals (4th on the team) in just 50 games.
For that reason alone, he may be worth keeping in reserve on the farm.
Yes he is frustrating to watch when not scoring.
He must be used sparingly and wisely.

I'd be happy to see one winger spot left open for Hossa, Higgins, and Dagenais to compete over.
Too bad Perezhogin won't be joining in for a while.

I agree.

Dagenais is frustrating to watch, but he still managed to score 17 goals in only 50 games. I really hope that we don't see him on the second line next season, but I do think that he should atleast be offered a two-way contract. I don't think that he should be cast-aside just because he's not 2nd line NHL material. He would be a valuable asset in Hamilton and he would be a good call-up in case there are injuries to the Habs.

I hope that Hossa is finally able to stick in the NHL. His window of opportunity seems to be getting smaller and smaller with each passing year. I heard that he had a great second half in the AHL. Hopefully he can parlay that into a strong training camp next time around. His size, skating and passing abilities would be a welcome sight alongside Ribs and Ryder.