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Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 30, 2004 11:45:01 GMT -5
A trade rumour involving Ribeiro/Higgins vs Ryan Smith/Pisani is floating about at CHFANS.
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Post by blaise on Jun 30, 2004 12:35:55 GMT -5
Ryan Sm yth and Pisani are a couple of 28-year-olds. That trade would add age and salary to the Habs roster.  |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jun 30, 2004 12:46:04 GMT -5
Ce n'est pas qu'une rumeur et je vous en assure. Le canadien tenterais de mettre la main sur le joueur de centre des Oilers Ryan Smyth. Le nom de l'ailier droit Fernando Pisani est aussi mentionné. Edmonton voudrais en retour obtenir les services de Ribeiro, Markhov et Higgins. PS: Est-ce que quelqu'un sait ou et quand le camp des espoirs du Canadiens auras lieu ! - chfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4709* Ouch! |
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Post by franko on Jun 30, 2004 12:47:14 GMT -5
Wow. As much as I've slagged Ribs for his "no-show" during the playoffs I expect him back. But I'd take Smyth (rather than Smith) for his work ethic. Ce n'est pas qu'une rumeur et je vous en assure. Le canadien tenterais de mettre la main sur le joueur de centre des Oilers Ryan Smyth. Le nom de l'ailier droit Fernando Pisani est aussi mentionné. Edmonton voudrais en retour obtenir les services de Ribeiro, Markhov et Higgins. - chfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4709* Ouch! My guesses at translation are just about as bad as BabelFish's, but even I can understand the reason for the ouch |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jun 30, 2004 12:49:27 GMT -5
Wow. As much as I've slagged Ribs for his "no-show" during the playoffs I expect him back. But I'd take Smyth (rather than Smith) for his work ethic. But for Ribeiro, Markov and Higgins? True, we also get the Leaning Tower of Pisani. |
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Post by franko on Jun 30, 2004 12:51:57 GMT -5
But for Ribeiro, Markov and Higgins? True, we also get the Leaning Tower of Pisani. Nope, as above. You're just too quick on the draw. |
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Post by blaise on Jun 30, 2004 13:06:46 GMT -5
Markov also? The price would be exorbitant for Smyth and Pisani. I know Smyth is a very good player, and Pisani isn't bad, but this trade would not please me. I thought dealing off Balej would put a temporary stop to the depletion of youth. Looking farther ahead, it would imply that Hainsey will replace Markov, because there's no one else on the immediate horizon.
If the 2004-05 season is scrubbed, as it well might, Smyth and Pisani would start the 2005-06 season at the ages of 29 and 28 (nearly 29), respectively. That would dilute the value of what the Habs would be getting.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 30, 2004 13:18:53 GMT -5
...and frankly Pisani is nothing to write home about. Somewhat of an older version of a cross between Bulis and Ward. VERY ordinary player and a "throw in" for this deal..
I am bias for sure as I like Ribeiro a lot but anything involving him would have to involve some young building block. I like Smyth as much as the next guy but the price rumored is too high. With a package like Ribs, Markov and Higgins, I'd expect names like Iginla or Lecavalier coming the other way...
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Post by Vinna on Jun 30, 2004 13:48:07 GMT -5
For Markov, Higgins AND Ribiero I would like to see something more along the lines of Smyth and Brewer. Pissani dosen't do anything for me at all. If it were to go thru that way I would be Pissanid right off. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 30, 2004 21:32:44 GMT -5
Must be the Oiler fans getting an early start on Canada Day celebrations. As much as Gainey likes his 'mature' players, that would be a bad deal. Smyth is a guy who is tough, with character, has played a hard number of years and is an 'old' 28, not to mention a candidate for injury. I like him, but not for that package. I could see it if Brewer is part of it and Pisani isn't. Personally, I prefer my Pisani wrapped around some slices of provolone and prosciutto. (Ok, ok, I'm stretching the poor guy's name just a little out of whack....but that's the cost of being original, sometimes).
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Post by Cranky on Jun 30, 2004 21:43:04 GMT -5
Is this the same Fernando Pisani that made me fall asleep a few years ago?
*checks his pyparus records"
YES IT IS.
I saw this guy play in Hamilton and he is NOTHING special.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2004 22:43:52 GMT -5
Fortunately, Gainey knows better. I trust that he does, anyway.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Jul 1, 2004 14:41:48 GMT -5
Out of the three guys rumoured to be going to Edmonton, Higgins is the guy that I would be most upset about losing. Also if the Habs are giving up Markov and Ribs, why is there a need to include Higgins? IMO, Ribs and Markov should be enough to fetch Smyth.
I just don't see the need in giving up Higgins on top of Ribs and Markov, unless Lowe wants to throw in one of his top prospects. (Torres?, Stoll?)
And Pisani is not someone that is going to upgrade or help the Habs.
I'll Passani on Pisani.
It's too bad that Laraques doesn't want to play in Montreal, because I would love to see him in a Habs uniform.
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Post by HabbaDasher on Jul 1, 2004 14:48:39 GMT -5
Ce n'est pas qu'une rumeur et je vous en assure. Le canadien tenterais de mettre la main sur le joueur de centre des Oilers Ryan Smyth. Le nom de l'ailier droit Fernando Pisani est aussi mentionné. Edmonton voudrais en retour obtenir les services de Ribeiro, Markhov et Higgins. PS: Est-ce que quelqu'un sait ou et quand le camp des espoirs du Canadiens auras lieu ! - chfans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4709* Ouch! Since when is Smyth a center? |
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Post by blaise on Jul 1, 2004 18:49:47 GMT -5
Since when is Smyth a center? He's listed as a LW. But does he have to be a center? The Habs can also use a scoring LW without Dagenais' liabilities. Bonk can be the center for Smyth. |
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Post by blny on Jul 1, 2004 19:04:35 GMT -5
Since when is Smyth a center? He did play some centre over the last two seasons. This deal reeks. I have no desire to see Markov moved. He's our best puck mover. Hainsey isn't ready to play the minutes and role that Markov plays. To throw Ron into that fire now would be a major mistake. The only way Markov can be moved is if someone of a similar ilk is brought in. Brewer would be the only guy from Edmonton that fits that bill. Higgins is someone else I don't want to see moved. Chris is easily our best two-way prospect. If he were traded I'd be demanding Stoll in return. Ribeiro's name will perpetually be in rumours. Edmonton is a team not overly deep up the middle so it's a logical team to name as a trade partner. If Nedved isn't brought back they're even thinner. I'm not inclined to move Ribs at this point. He's coming off a breakout year. He also has a lot to prove. I want him proving that here. He may not be able to muster more points in a regular season, but I want to see him get it right in the playoffs in a Habs uniform. Smyth is a great player and leader. Having him would be good. I too, however, question his ability to remain healthy for a full season. Smyth gets hurt, and plays hurt a lot. We've been down the injury road before. I don't think mortgaging our youth for Smyth without getting something really good along with him. I'm not sure there is a deal to be made with the Oilers that makes us appreciably better. That is the goal of a trade for the most part isn't it? Trading Ribs makes us weaker up the middle again. That in itself makes the idea of this deal difficult to accept. I see this rumour as nothing more than Ribs haters trying to come with plausible rumours to promote the removal of Ribs from Montreal. |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Jul 2, 2004 0:13:18 GMT -5
I don't see this as a deal that Habs have to make. With Koivu, Ribeiro and Bonk, the Habs have a good mix of size and skill down the middle. It's probably our strongest depth at center since the days of Damphousse, Turgeon and Koivu.
Trading Ribs just for the sake of trading him is definitely not a good move. He has his share of haters, but we can't deny the fact that he produced strong numbers last season, despite it being his first full year in the NHL.
Judging by the rumoured trade, the Habs are giving up way more than the Oilers. Seeing how Lowe is the one that needs this deal done more than Gainey, shouldn't they be the ones overpaying?
I am a huge fan of Ryan Smyth, but we do have to consider the fact that he is very injury prone and that in a few years he's going to be in UFA territory. Ribs, Markov and Higgins are three of our best young assets. If we're going to give them up Lowe needs to give up more than Smyth and Pisani.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Jul 2, 2004 0:16:06 GMT -5
I see this rumour as nothing more than Ribs haters trying to come with plausible rumours to promote the removal of Ribs from Montreal. That's what it seems like to me also. Has this deal been rumoured by any media outlet, or is it just something that was made up by some fan? |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 2, 2004 6:50:31 GMT -5
That's what it seems like to me also. Has this deal been rumoured by any media outlet, or is it just something that was made up by some fan? From the original poster, later in the thread: J'ai parlé aujourd'hui à un homme d'affaire très crédible, très sérieux et très connus de la région de Valleyfield, Bernard Gendron. Ce n'est pas du genre à raconter de la "BullSaperlipopette" pour se rendre interessant. Il m'as annoncé cela ce matin à son agence de voyage. Je sais qu'il a aussi beaucoup de contacte tant dans le sport amateur que professionnel. Il a des amis personnel comme Jean-Luc Brassard et Pat Brisson. Je suis porté à le croire mais j'espère que si c'est vrai, Bob sait ce qu'il fait. À SUIVRE !!! * I spoke today to a very credible, very serious and very well-known businessman of the Valleyfield area, Bernard Gendron. He is not the type to talk "BullSaperlipopette" to make himself seem interesting. He told me about this this morning at his travel agency. I know that he has many contacts in amateur sport as well as in professional sport. He has personal friends like Jean-Luc Brassard and Pat Brisson. I am disposed to believe him, but I hope that if it is true Bob knows what he is doing. To be continued... * I assume the Jean-Luc Brassard referred to is the former world champion moguls skier. Pat Brisson is a full partner of IMG (International Management Group) and is an agent for players including; Federov, Jagr, Thornton, Sundin and Sydney Crosby. |
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Post by Montrealer on Jul 2, 2004 14:57:34 GMT -5
Jesus, it's Bernard Gendron speaking!
Well, if Mr. Bernard Gendron of Valleyfield is saying it, it must be true!
Damn, Mr. Bernard Gendron of freaking Valleyfield has never been wrong in his life!
I mean, he knows Jean-Luc Brassard, for heaven's sake!
And Pat Brisson!
He is definately the most credible source of Habs information available. Mr Bernard Gendron of Valleyfield is as rock-solid a rumour source as you will find this side of the Mississippi. In fact, I don't believe you can find a more credible source this side of the entire Atlantic Ocean.
People in villages in Peru mention the name Bernard Gendron in hushed tones - often his forecasts of the upcoming growing season's weather determine exactly what the villagers will plant.
Hollywood executives have Bernard Gendron on Speed-Dial. Often in the #2 position!
The White House often uses the utterings of Bernard Gendron to determine their foreign policy objectives for the coming year.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 2, 2004 15:10:01 GMT -5
Jesus, it's Bernard Gendron speaking! Well, if Mr. Bernard Gendron of Valleyfield is saying it, it must be true! Damn, Mr. Bernard Gendron of freaking Valleyfield has never been wrong in his life! I mean, he knows Jean-Luc Brassard, for heaven's sake! And Pat Brisson! He is definately the most credible source of Habs information available. Mr Bernard Gendron of Valleyfield is as rock-solid a rumour source as you will find this side of the Mississippi. In fact, I don't believe you can find a more credible source this side of the entire Atlantic Ocean. People in villages in Peru mention the name Bernard Gendron in hushed tones - often his forecasts of the upcoming growing season's weather determine exactly what the villagers will plant. Hollywood executives have Bernard Gendron on Speed-Dial. Often in the #2 position! The White House often uses the utterings of Bernard Gendron to determine their foreign policy objectives for the coming year. COMPLAINTS are down the hall, 3 doors to your left. We do hope you have enjoyed your visit to The House of Rumours, and haven't taken anything too seriously. Thank you, and do come again. |
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Post by blaise on Jul 2, 2004 17:10:53 GMT -5
Logic indicates that Gainey wouldn't make such an obviously self-defeating deal, but you never know.
This isn't the first time HabsRus members have been beset with sure-fire rumors (e.g., Koivu's imminent departure) that had all the gravitas of plastic peanuts or styrofoam used to cushion delicate objects.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 2, 2004 22:39:11 GMT -5
Logic indicates that Gainey wouldn't make such an obviously self-defeating deal, but you never know. This isn't the first time HabsRus members have been beset with sure-fire rumors (e.g., Koivu's imminent departure) that had all the gravitas of plastic peanuts or styrofoam used to cushion delicate objects. This is not the first time that zeal and earnestness have led people astray in this section of the board. Main Entry: ru·mor Pronunciation: 'rü-m&r<br>Function: noun Etymology: Middle English rumour, from Middle French, from Latin rumor clamor, gossip; akin to Old English rEon to lament, Sanskrit rauti he roars 1 : talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source 2 : a statement or report current without known authority for its truth 3 archaic : talk or report of a notable person or event 4 : a soft low indistinct sound : MURMUR No "sure-fire" claims were made in this thread, which discusses a rumor (see above for definition). |
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Post by Montrealer on Jul 2, 2004 23:14:55 GMT -5
COMPLAINTS are down the hall, 3 doors to your left. We do hope you have enjoyed your visit to The House of Rumours, and haven't taken anything too seriously. Thank you, and do come again. Ah, you mistook my rant completely, Mr.B. I don't mind rumours and innuendo at all. I just found it hilarious that the solid basis for the rumour was that it was from a guy in Valleyfield of all places that 99.9999% of humanity has never heard of. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 2, 2004 23:34:23 GMT -5
Ah, you mistook my rant completely, Mr.B. I don't mind rumours and innuendo at all. I just found it hilarious that the solid basis for the rumour was that it was from a guy in Valleyfield of all places that 99.9999% of humanity has never heard of. I take my rumours *very* seriously. Besides, no-one I know has had anything disparaging to say about Bernard Gendron of Valleyfield. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 3, 2004 7:43:27 GMT -5
Besides, no-one I know has had anything disparaging to say about Bernard Gendron of Valleyfield. I know this guy whose aunt lives in Valleyfield, and this guy (I can't reveal his name for reasons that are about to become clear), he says that his aunt told him that Bernard Gendron sometimes waters his lawn on EVEN numbered days, even though city by-laws state that his lawn should only be watered on ODD numbered days. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 3, 2004 8:45:18 GMT -5
I know this guy whose aunt lives in Valleyfield, and this guy (I can't reveal his name for reasons that are about to become clear), he says that his aunt told him that Bernard Gendron sometimes waters his lawn on EVEN numbered days, even though city by-laws state that his lawn should only be watered on ODD numbered days. Great. Now everybody knows that the dice are loaded and everybody rolls with their fingers crossed. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 3, 2004 11:13:35 GMT -5
Kevin Lowe has a reputation of demanding more in return than is realistic.
Bob Gainey has a reputation of not giving up too much / getting the right piece of the puzzle when building a team.
These two guys will never come to an agreement on anything. But let me be the first to say I like the trade.
Everyone seem to think that other players want to play in Montreal and other teams are willing to give us their best for our scaps.
Higgins is a third / fourth line player. He is dispensable especially with Chipchura just drafted, Begin, and some here are big on Maxim Lapierre (never seen him play so I don't know about him) ...... four guys bred for the same roll is too many. If he get us Smyth, great.
Ribeiro was our best player last year, Smyth is Edmonton's best player. Smyth has more character and grit. Ribs is potentially a better scorer. If Markov is the deal breaker than I might walk unless we get a d-man in return but not Brewer. That is shooting for the moon, great inquire about him, but I would settle for Staois or Semenov.
To get Smyth and Brewer we would have to give up more than Ribeiro Markov and Higgins. Way more. And Edmonton is very familiar with our farm so they could potentially fleece us dry.
If Gainey is the guy inquiring about Smyth. Then I would not be upset about losing Higgins and Ribs.
But if Lowe is the guy inquiring about Markov and Ribs, then I won't be happy unless we get Smyth and Staios.
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Post by blaise on Jul 3, 2004 12:00:09 GMT -5
Kevin Lowe has a reputation of demanding more in return than is realistic. Bob Gainey has a reputation of not giving up too much / getting the right piece of the puzzle when building a team. These two guys will never come to an agreement on anything. But let me be the first to say I like the trade. Everyone seem to think that other players want to play in Montreal and other teams are willing to give us their best for our scaps. Higgins is a third / fourth line player. He is dispensable especially with Chipchura just drafted, Begin, and some here are big on Maxim Lapierre (never seen him play so I don't know about him) ...... four guys bred for the same roll is too many. If he get us Smyth, great. Ribeiro was our best player last year, Smyth is Edmonton's best player. Smyth has more character and grit. Ribs is potentially a better scorer. If Markov is the deal breaker than I might walk unless we get a d-man in return but not Brewer. That is shooting for the moon, great inquire about him, but I would settle for Staois or Semenov. To get Smyth and Brewer we would have to give up more than Ribeiro Markov and Higgins. Way more. And Edmonton is very familiar with our farm so they could potentially fleece us dry. If Gainey is the guy inquiring about Smyth. Then I would not be upset about losing Higgins and Ribs. But if Lowe is the guy inquiring about Markov and Ribs, then I won't be happy unless we get Smyth and Staios. I disagree with much of what Skilly says, notably that Ribeiro is the Habs' best player. He strikes me as precisely the type of player Gainey would be willing to trade. Gainey never had this type of creampuff as a teammate on the Cup winners he played for. He's seen lots of soft point-getters in his day, and 65 points is hardly remarkable. He would trade Ribeiro even-up for Smyth in a microsecond despite the five-year difference in age, because Smyth brings both tangibles and intangibles to the rink that Ribeiro can never supply, such as physical presence and willingness to sacrifice for the team. However, it's the rest of the rumored deal that would give Gainey acid reflux that could hardly be neutralized with a proton pump inhibitor. Markov is one of the best defensemen on the Habs, and that is the position with the least depth. As for Higgins, whom Skilly seems to dismiss because he's an American collegiate player, it's quite premature to believe that he will be inferior to the much older Pisani. It would be only fair to give Higgins the benefit of a preseason or two before making such a final judgment. (I would not make that judgment, having seen Higgins live on several occasions, an advantage Skilly has not experienced as yet.) Marcel Hossa, drafted two years before Higgins, was given quite a bit more opportunity than this, and even he was qualified by Gainey despite his disappointing play on a line with Ribeiro and Zednik. What I would agree with is that Kevin Lowe always asks for too much in trades and that Bob Gainey is not going to be cowed into acceding to his demands. I can only imagine what Lowe would have wanted from the Habs if he had had Bonk to offer. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 3, 2004 18:06:16 GMT -5
I disagree with much of what Skilly says, notably that Ribeiro is the Habs' best player. No, I said he was the best player on the team last year, not IS the best player. Yet that creampuff played 81 games, more than any other player on the team. And that Vachon cake scored more points than Smyth last year. Gainey never played with any creampuffs? Pierre Larouche was pretty much a May West in his day. Never seen him break many eggs in his day. Ribs could turn into that type of player. Do I think he will? No .... but potential is what he is selling. For this rumour to be true, Edmonton must see something they like in him. No, it is only Markov that makes gainey back away. The rest of the package is acceptable to both parties. Agreed His nationality has nothing to do with it. It has to do with where does he fit on the Habs and what direction I feel the team should take. The top three lines are relatively young. Each line needs one guy. Higgins is not the guy on either of those lines. If we have to wait 2-3 years for Higgins to play, his spot as a third or fourth liner will be taken by Chipchura, or others. The team has been labelled small for way too long. And it looks like management agrees with that with the recent drafting of Chipchura and acqiusition of Bonk. We have too many smurfs and everything being equal Higgins will have to play twice as good to beat out Chipchura in 2 years time. I didn't even mention Pisani's name in my post. I said Smyth and Staois. Last year was his first preseason, this year there won't be a pre-season, the year after that he will be battling a lot of guys for that third/fourth line spot. His window of opportunity is getting too small, much like his stature. Not quite sure where this erronepus comment came from. I have seen Higgins play live 6 times. (I do have season tickets to the Baby Leaf games) In those six games Higgins had 3 goals , 1 assist. And he was like the invisible man for 5 of those games. In two of those games I thought Gratton was the best player on the ice (5-2 win, and a 3-1 loss), in 3 more games I thought Plekanec was the best player on the ice (which is odd because he probably only had an assist or 2 in those games, but was all over the ice, even hitting) and in the last game a 5-1 trouncing I thought Traverse was the best player on the ice. Higgins had 2 goals in that last game, an empty netter and a goal on an amzing pass from Traverse to give him an open net. He just never impressed me. As I said ... all things being equal size will win out more often than not. Hossa will make the team when hockey starts again. For two fellows that hardly agree, agreeing on sometime, even something so obviuos as this, then this day has to be marked on both our calendars!  |
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