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Post by FREEHAB on Jul 29, 2004 12:34:20 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Jul 29, 2004 12:59:40 GMT -5
Assets - Skates exceptionally well from his blueline position. Possesses a heavy shot from the point and plays a big man's game when motivated.
Flaws - Tends to disappear during the course of the season. Lacks the drive and determination to be the best he can be. Takes bad penalties and occasionally makes horrible decisions with the puck.
Sounds like an even more expensive Rivet. He's good and all, but I don't see any vet d-men being added unless one gets shipped out. Quintal was traded to make room for youth. I expect this to be the area on the roster with the highest concentration of it.
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 29, 2004 14:08:45 GMT -5
Almost 32 years old.....never scored a ton of goals...
Since 98-99 his goal totals are very meagre for someone with his shot....7, 2, 8, 1, 3, 4.
Assists are okay...I assume most on the PP.
Don't know what his =/- has been like.
However....whenever he plays the Habs, he plays them hard...and always seems to be a thorn in our side.
But I don't think that's worth $3.75 mill. to take him.
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Post by blny on Jul 29, 2004 14:20:59 GMT -5
Don't know what his =/- has been like. He's a -50 for his career, including -13 last year. 882 games played, 396 points (mostly assists) and about 1000pims Rivet is 2 years younger, bigger, is a plus player for his career, and his point totals are .2pts/game instead of a third. I'll stick with Rivet. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jul 30, 2004 9:47:53 GMT -5
Don't know what his =/- has been like. Of course I meant +/- (stupid shift key).....on the other hand it looks as if all Zhitnik does is = a - on the ice. |
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Post by Sehkmet on Jul 30, 2004 10:19:08 GMT -5
Alexei Zhitnik (HT: 5-11 WT: 215) :
03-04 Buffalo 68 4 24 28 -13 102 134 3.0 0.41
02-03 Buffalo 70 3 18 21 -5 85 138 2.2 0.30
01-02 Buffalo 82 1 33 34 -1 80 150 0.7 0.41
00-01 Buffalo 78 8 29 37 -3 75 149 5.4 0.47
99-00 Buffalo 74 2 11 13 -6 95 139 1.4 0.18
98-99 Buffalo 81 7 26 33 -6 96 185 3.8 0.41
97-98 Buffalo 78 15 30 45 +19 102 191 7.9 0.58
96-97 Buffalo 80 7 28 35 +10 95 170 4.1 0.44
95-96 Buffalo 80 6 30 36 -25 58 193 3.1 0.45
94-95 LA/Buf 32 4 10 14 -6 61 66 6.1 0.44
93-94 LA 81 12 40 52 -11 101 227 5.3 0.64
92-93 LA 78 12 36 48 -3 80 136 8.8 0.62
Greg Rivet (HT: 6-2 WT: 207) :
03-04 Montreal 80 4 8 12 -1 98 96 4.2 0.15
02-03 Montreal 82 7 15 22 +1 71 118 5.9 0.27
01-02 Montreal 82 8 17 25 +1 76 90 8.9 0.30
00-01 Montreal 26 1 2 3 -8 36 22 4.6 0.12
99-00 Montreal 61 3 14 17 +11 76 71 4.2 0.28
98-99 Montreal 66 2 8 10 -3 66 39 5.1 0.15
97-98 Montreal NHL 61 0 2 2 -3 93 26 0.0 0.03
96-97 Montreal NHL 35 0 4 4 +7 54 24 0.0 0.11
It appears to me that you are quit hard with Zhitnik. Zhitnik is a top four defensement and Rivet a number 5-6 defensement.
At 2.5 M a year, Rivet is certainly one of the most overevaluated defensement in the NHL. Especialy if you compared him to Richard Matvitchuk and his salaray of 2.2 a year.
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Post by KR on Jul 30, 2004 10:27:24 GMT -5
While he might be an upgrade over Brisebois or possibly Rivet ( that's questionable) I don't think Gainey should be thinking about adding anyone unless it's a winger. Priorities are prioritiesand a defenceman has to be down the list right now.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2004 10:32:36 GMT -5
Wow, Rivet is only +11 for his career after having played on all those great Habs teams?
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jul 30, 2004 10:47:18 GMT -5
I would compare Zhitnik to Brisebois instead of Craig Rivet....which begs the question...why would we want another Brisebois? (slightly tougher, mind you)
THF
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Post by blny on Jul 30, 2004 10:58:19 GMT -5
Alexei Zhitnik (HT: 5-11 WT: 215) : 03-04 Buffalo 68 4 24 28 -13 102 134 3.0 0.41 02-03 Buffalo 70 3 18 21 -5 85 138 2.2 0.30 01-02 Buffalo 82 1 33 34 -1 80 150 0.7 0.41 00-01 Buffalo 78 8 29 37 -3 75 149 5.4 0.47 99-00 Buffalo 74 2 11 13 -6 95 139 1.4 0.18 98-99 Buffalo 81 7 26 33 -6 96 185 3.8 0.41 97-98 Buffalo 78 15 30 45 +19 102 191 7.9 0.58 96-97 Buffalo 80 7 28 35 +10 95 170 4.1 0.44 95-96 Buffalo 80 6 30 36 -25 58 193 3.1 0.45 94-95 LA/Buf 32 4 10 14 -6 61 66 6.1 0.44 93-94 LA 81 12 40 52 -11 101 227 5.3 0.64 92-93 LA 78 12 36 48 -3 80 136 8.8 0.62 Greg Rivet (HT: 6-2 WT: 207) : 03-04 Montreal 80 4 8 12 -1 98 96 4.2 0.15 02-03 Montreal 82 7 15 22 +1 71 118 5.9 0.27 01-02 Montreal 82 8 17 25 +1 76 90 8.9 0.30 00-01 Montreal 26 1 2 3 -8 36 22 4.6 0.12 99-00 Montreal 61 3 14 17 +11 76 71 4.2 0.28 98-99 Montreal 66 2 8 10 -3 66 39 5.1 0.15 97-98 Montreal NHL 61 0 2 2 -3 93 26 0.0 0.03 96-97 Montreal NHL 35 0 4 4 +7 54 24 0.0 0.11 It appears to me that you are quit hard with Zhitnik. Zhitnik is a top four defensement and Rivet a number 5-6 defensement. At 2.5 M a year, Rivet is certainly one of the most overevaluated defensement in the NHL. Especialy if you compared him to Richard Matvitchuk and his salaray of 2.2 a year. I don't think so really. I don't see Zhitnik as a dman $1 million better than Rivet, if at all. Zhitnik has more offensive upside, but only marginal. Craig is better defensively. The stats bare that out. One should also consider that for much of Zhitnik's career he had one of the best goalies ever behind him. Rivet can't say the same. Rivet isn't flashy, but IMO he's a 3-4 guy. Had he not worked to remove many of his early career blunders, he'd have remained a 5-6 guy. At present only a couple of teams would have him that low on the pecking order. Detroit for one. Craig is physical, plays hard, will drop the gloves, and is a good leader. He does a decent job in front of the net too. Alexei is a more fluid skater, but Craig gets from A to B pretty quickly. His speed is underrated. |
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Post by blny on Jul 30, 2004 11:00:03 GMT -5
Wow, Rivet is only +11 for his career after having played on all those great Habs teams? I was thinking the same smart-assed thing. IMO that's pretty impressive considering all the roster turnover, injuries, coaching changes, mgt changes, and turmoil of the last 7 or so years. He's accumulated that playing a lot of minutes too. |
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Post by Sehkmet on Jul 30, 2004 11:49:29 GMT -5
I dont think that Zhitnik and Rivet should be compared. They are 2 players with différent styles.
Zhitnik and Brisebois is a most valuable comparison.
IMO, Rivet should not play on the first 2 défensive pairs. He is a good fifth defensement and he brings deep at the Habs blue line. Also, Rivet is not as physical as he could be. It is a another domain in which he is overevaluated.
The Habs had a good saison last year and Theo too. So, what happen with Rivet and -1 ? Even if he played on the PP he scored 4 goals and made 8 assists ! He also took 4 major penalties (same number than Quintal and Souray) in the entire saison which is not lot if you considered that Bouillon took 6 major. Is he realy defending his teamates ?
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Post by blaise on Jul 30, 2004 12:35:52 GMT -5
He's defending them against ... Dagenais.  |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 30, 2004 13:39:57 GMT -5
Wow, Rivet is only +11 for his career after having played on all those great Habs teams? Excuse my math: But from the posted statistics wouldn't (+7) + (-3) + (-3) + (+11) + (-8) + (+1) + (+1) + (-1) = +5 ........ not +11. Rivet only stands up for Koivu. The rest of the team he let Quintal worry about protecting. And Rivet leaves men behind him wide open in front of Theo without trying to punish them (and he is not alone in this regard on the team). That is why I think Theo is so good .... because he has to face more 1 on 1 chances (maybe Luongo has more?) than any goalie in the league! |
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Post by blaise on Jul 30, 2004 14:05:52 GMT -5
Rivet drubbed Marchment last season.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2004 15:57:56 GMT -5
Excuse my math: But from the posted statistics wouldn't (+7) + (-3) + (-3) + (+11) + (-8) + (+1) + (+1) + (-1) = +5 ........ not +11. In fact it does, but those stats do not cover Rivet's entire career: www.forecaster.ca/thestar/hockey/player.cgi?0187 |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 30, 2004 16:08:37 GMT -5
I don't think so really. I don't see Zhitnik as a dman $1 million better than Rivet, if at all. Zhitnik has more offensive upside, but only marginal. Craig is better defensively. The stats bare that out. One should also consider that for much of Zhitnik's career he had one of the best goalies ever behind him. Rivet can't say the same. Rivet isn't flashy, but IMO he's a 3-4 guy. Had he not worked to remove many of his early career blunders, he'd have remained a 5-6 guy. At present only a couple of teams would have him that low on the pecking order. Detroit for one. Craig is physical, plays hard, will drop the gloves, and is a good leader. He does a decent job in front of the net too. Alexei is a more fluid skater, but Craig gets from A to B pretty quickly. His speed is underrated. What he said. Rivet battled back from being a horrendous -10 for the first half of last season to finish at -1. His rollercoaster performance mirrored that of his partner Markov, who was understandably distracted by the fact that his father was on his deathbed. Once the elder Markov passed away his son's, and Rivet's (due to not having to play for 2 many nights), performance picked up dramatically. Rivet has a chronic wrist injury that unfortunately dictates the type of game he will play on a given night. Perhaps surgery could help, but from what I remeber the prognosis was iffy, much as it was for Souray who finally had his wrist fixed after a third or fourth operation (only to re-injure it late last season). IMO, Rivet is an asset to the team. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 30, 2004 20:41:03 GMT -5
Rivet battled back from being a horrendous -10 for the first half of last season to finish at -1. His rollercoaster performance mirrored that of his partner Markov, who was understandably distracted by the fact that his father was on his deathbed. Hmmm, begs the question, is this a symptom or a cause? Did Rivet's performance parallel Markov's because as Andrei goes, so does Craig? That's what I'd say. |
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Post by Sehkmet on Jul 31, 2004 0:02:46 GMT -5
I would ask something else :
As Saku goes, so does Graig ?
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Post by Skilly on Jul 31, 2004 8:51:07 GMT -5
What he said. Rivet battled back from being a horrendous -10 for the first half of last season to finish at -1. His rollercoaster performance mirrored that of his partner Markov, who was understandably distracted by the fact that his father was on his deathbed. Once the elder Markov passed away his son's, and Rivet's (due to not having to play for 2 many nights), performance picked up dramatically. Rivet has a chronic wrist injury that unfortunately dictates the type of game he will play on a given night. Perhaps surgery could help, but from what I remeber the prognosis was iffy, much as it was for Souray who finally had his wrist fixed after a third or fourth operation (only to re-injure it late last season). IMO, Rivet is an asset to the team. Why the excuses for these two .... yet Theo had family problems up his ying-yang and Kovalev had an "injury" (as you pegged it) and was away from his family and they aren't allowed the excuses ...... i know i know .... more money blah blah blah .... I guess people with fat paycheques aren't allowed to have problems outside of hockey. But as long as some players are liked by some people they can have as many problems as they can handle. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 31, 2004 9:40:43 GMT -5
Why the excuses for these two .... What excuses? Just the facts. First off, Kovalev's father was not terminally ill. Second, I have never claimed that the circus around Théodore has not affected his play. Obviously they do have them. And those off-ice problems may affect their play, and as a consequence the bang-per-buck I expect them to deliver. Try to focus on Rivet, or Kovalev, or Théodore, or whoever else on the Habs. I do not play for the club. I believe most posters get their fill (at least) of my opinions on the team and prefer not to read opinions about me (or other posters) on this board. I have my take. You have your's. That's how it is. Sounds like you have a differing viewpoint on Rivet... |
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 31, 2004 9:54:01 GMT -5
First off, Kovalev's father was not terminally ill. No, but his wife was giving birth to their child... |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 31, 2004 10:00:36 GMT -5
No, but his wife was giving birth to their child... Good point. I had forgotten about that. |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 31, 2004 18:12:45 GMT -5
What excuses? Just the facts. Those facts, ie family problems and injuries, are just as plain when it comes to Kovalev and Theodore. No he wasn't, but I never mentioned Markov. I fully understand his dad's condition affected his play and have never chastised him for it. I refer to the excuses above for Rivet and Souray. No you haven't. But it has been used it as a reason for trading him and/or promoting Garon to #1. I believe some have said . distraction, is a glaring weakness in his game. But it is not taken into account in the bang-for-buck calculation. But when a Rivet has a "chronic wrist injury" it is used as a crutch and he is labelled an assest. And when a Kovalev has a wrist "injury" and picks up his game and carries the team to the next round and gets 10 points in 11 games he is a liability. Or when he is bouncing around on a different line every night it not mentioned, just simply "he has one goal (empty net"). I did not mean to attack you personally. And I apologize for it. I mentioned earlier in another thread, and later backed up by "research" by BC, that it you "appear" to slag players you don't like and there are excuses for ones you like. The research by BC was based on facts. When he leaves players wide open behind him in the defensive zone and shows no hussle .... yes a different view point. Rivet should concentrate on being a defensive defenseman who clears the front of the net, and leave the pinching into the offense to Brisebois, Markov, and Souray ..... I mean someone has to stay back there. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jul 31, 2004 18:38:22 GMT -5
Those facts, ie family problems and injuries, are just as plain when it comes to Kovalev and Theodore. Never said they weren't. It seems to me that you have been missing the gist of my criticism of Kovalev and Théodore. I never referred to their injuries as excuses but rather as impediments to their optimum performance. And let me pre-empt you by noting that Souray's and Rivet's salaries combined do not equal either Kovalev's or Théodore's alone. Go re-read my posts on Garon vis-à-vis Théodore and you will have a clearer understanding of my position on that issue. Yes, I do think Rivet is an asset to the club. I never claimed that Kovalev was a liability in the playoffs, though anyone would be hard-pressed to claim him as an asset during his regular season tenure with the Habs. I *have* questioned his motivation(s) for turning "it" on. Apology accepted. People have their own axes to grind and I am generally good-natured about it. I am not perfect (except perhaps in my own mind). Fine. I do not see Rivet's play in the same light. As Paul Harvey used to say, "And that's how it was." |
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