St. Louis Steamed over Lecavalier deal

[MC Habber]

Lecavalier deal the buzz of Olympic camp

Phillips and St. Louis

Canadian Press

8/17/2005 6:32:39 PM

KELOWNA, B.C. (CP) - On the ice, it was the same as always. Martin St. Louis spun around in the corner and fed a perfect pass to linemate Vincent Lecavalier, who one-timed a blast past Roberto Luongo to give Team Red a 1-0 lead Wednesday over Team White at Canada's Olympic hockey camp.

Lecavalier added another goal and the Tampa duo was the most dangerous on the ice in the red team's 2-1 scrimmage win in front of soldout crowd of 4,000 at Prospera Place.

Off the ice, however, things have been a little awkward since Lecavalier agreed to a $27.5-million US, four-year deal Tuesday.

Lecavalier's $6.875-million annual pay has eaten a big chunk out of the Lightning salary cap. It means St. Louis, a restricted free agent who was the last NHLer to be named regular-season MVP, will probably have to sign for less than $5 million a year.

''Everybody's doing the math, it's not rocket science to see what it means,'' said fellow Tampa star Brad Richards. ''I'm very good friends with both guys, it's a tough, tough situation - it sucks. There's no other way to put it.

''We've already lost (goalie) Nikolai Khabibulin and now it's going to be a big challenge to get Marty signed.''

Lecavalier would have made $4.375 million during the wiped-out lockout season. St. Louis has been a free agent since Tampa won the Cup.

St. Louis was thrilled for his friend's new deal, but clearly steamed at how things are shaping up for him.

''I'm really happy for him, I have no problem with Vinny, I like Vinny,'' said St. Louis. ''It's not Vinny's fault. But does it affect me? Of course it does.''

It didn't on the ice Wednesday, where St. Louis dazzled. He's a good bet to go to Turin, as are Richards and Lecavalier.

St. Louis doesn't want his contract situation to affect his chances here this week. But it's on his mind.

''I'd be lying to you if I didn't say it affects me. Of course it does,'' said St. Louis, trying not to reveal his emotions. ''But you have to forget about it when you hit the ice. I'm here to try and make the Olympic team. When I get off the ice, I get on the phone with my agent and try to assess the situation. But when I come to the rink, I try to forget about it.''

Lecavalier had the unenviable position of answering questions about it after practice.

''Marty congratulated me right away,'' said a clearly uncomfortable Lecavalier. ''But with this new CBA, the GMs have a tough job.

''We talked this morning and everything was fine. Marty's a great guy and I hope we play together for a long time.''

The Lightning are at about $30 million right now, still needing to re-sign St. Louis as well as captain Dave Andreychuk and probably a defenceman to replace Brad Lukowich, who joined the Islanders last week. Given that few teams want to go over $37 million in order to leave room for injuries and call-ups, St. Louis is feeling the squeeze.

''Now we're in a cap world, you have to try and fit everybody. It's a tough situation,'' he said. ''I really don't know what I'm going to do.''

The cap has hit several teams hard - including Colorado, Detroit and Toronto - but the Lightning have been hammered after building a Cup champion on a tight budget.

''It sucks, there was a reason we didn't want a salary cap that low, especially for our team,'' said Richards. ''For some teams it's great, for some teams it sucks. But we're going to have live with it. We've already lost one of the best goalies in the world - which we could have signed without a cap - and now we don't know what's going to happen with our Hart Trophy winner.''

In the long run, the Lecavalier contract could also prevent Tampa from signing Richards, the Conn Smythe Trophy winner in 2004, to a long-term deal unless the Lightning find a way to accommodate a $7-million salary - the kind of money Richards would definitely fetch on the open market. He's a restricted free agent next year after earning $3.4 million this season, but can become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2007.

St. Louis, meanwhile, has to consider his options. He could ask for a trade, sign a one-year deal and leave via unrestricted free agency next summer, or suck it up and sign a long-term deal under $5 million a season.

''I think right now I'm in a pause mode,'' said St. Louis. ''I have to sit back and analyse the situation and see what's best for me and what's best for the team.''

Ottawa defenceman Wade Redden may soon find himself in a similar position. The Senators are a talented team with big decisions to make next year. Redden and fellow star blue-liner Zdeno Chara are due to become unrestricted free agents. And star winger Marian Hossa is already a restricted free agent.

It's doubtful the Sens can fit all three under long-term big-money deals and that's why Redden's name has been mentioned in trade rumours lately.

''Yes, guys are going to have tough decisions to make,'' Redden said Wednesday. ''I'd like to stick in Ottawa, and I think other guys there feel the same way, we've been together a long time and we haven't been able to accomplish our goal. But we feel we have a good chance there. To have to split that up would be a shame. We'll see what happens. I guess the window is closing on us in Ottawa.''

www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=133790

[MC Habber]

Players struggle to keep up with NHL moves

Kris Draper

Canadian Press

8/17/2005 6:57:08 PM

KELOWNA, B.C. (CP) - Kris Draper has given up trying to keep track of who is playing where in the post-lockout NHL.

''I'll wait for opening day and will kind of take a look at the rosters then,'' Draper, the veteran Detroit Red Wing forward, said Wednesday after the Olympic hockey team had its first day of workouts at the Prospera Place arena in Kelowna.

A new $39-million US salary camp plus new liberal free agency kicking in next season has resulted in players switching teams like pieces on a chess board.

Chris Pronger was traded to Edmonton to free up salary room in St. Louis, then the Oilers dealt for Mike Peca.

Scott Niedermayer became an unrestricted free agent leaving New Jersey for Anaheim. Paul Kariya (Nashville), Peter Forsberg (Philadelphia), Ziggy Palffy and Sergei Gonchar (Pittsburgh) all are wearing new uniforms.

Click here to find out more!


Get your programs if you want to know who to cheer for.

''Every time you turn on the TV, there is somebody signing somewhere else,'' said Draper.

''When the teams come together come training camp, that's when your going to get a real feel for it.''

While fans may enjoy watching the player roulette, not everyone is sure it's good for the game.

''It's kind of a circus right now,'' said New Jersey goaltender Martin Brodeur.

''It's going to be hard to build teams that are going to stay together for a long time. I was really proud to play in New Jersey, we had a lot of success. Now with the new CBA, with the way free agency comes around, there will be a lot of movement.''

Proving Brodeur's point is defenceman Adam Foote, who signed a three-year deal to play with the Columbus Blue Jackets after 13 seasons with the Avalanche/Nordiques.

''I'm sure fans aren't picking their hockey pools too quick,'' laughed Foote.

''They are going to wait a little bit longer. You're going to see a new league. That's what everyone wanted. We got locked out for a reason.''

Niedermayer thinks the shuffle in talent makes it impossible to predict early season favourites.

''I don't think anybody will have a really good idea what the standings are going to be like until midway through the year,'' he said.

''Teams have changed themselves. It will be interesting to see how things have changed.''

Players seemed divided on whether the ebb and flow of talent will erode cohesion in the dressing room.

''It makes me nervous that good friends will be moving more,'' said Martin St-Louis of the defending Stanley Cup champion Tampa Bay Lightning.

''It's tough.''

Calgary defenceman Robyn Regehr has seen the Flames lose players like Martin Gelinas and Craig Conroy but add defenceman Roman Hamrik along with forwards Tony Amonte and Darren McCarty.

''Constant change is a little bit tough to deal with,'' he said.

''Keeping the core group of a team together is extremely important.''

For example, Regehr called Conroy ''a very vocal, energetic leader in the dressing room.''

''The dynamics of a dressing room changes a lot, so does the chemistry of the team,'' he said.

''With that loss you are adding another couple of players who might bring something to the table that Craig didn't. You don't look at what you lost, you also have to look at what you gained.''

Calgary centre Jarome Iginla said one difference this year is the spreading out of the talent, instead of the best players being attracted to the richest teams like moths to a flame.

''Every year when the free agents came it was the same teams picking up the bulk of them and the most talented ones,'' he said.

''As a fan it's been fun to see what different teams are going to do and see other teams get stronger.

www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=133799

[Doc Holliday]

..hehehehe....

one big happy family in Tampa!

[seventeen]

The bandwagon for the "Lightning to miss the playoffs" supporters will be leaving the station in November. Reserve your seats early. I'll be driving (fast).

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

All the more reason for Gainey to keep wiggle room under the cap for opportunities as they present themselves.
We didn't get Lecavalier, but Richards or St. Louis would fit on the team. Heck, I'd even give up Dagenais for one of those two.

[Douper]

LeCavalier just broke the back of the Bolts.

Richards will be a wealthy man next year 6 million + and St Louis won't want to stay for less than LeCavalier!

Great job Vinny!

[jkr]

Lecavalier was talking about a "home town discount" so that the Lightning could sign Richards & St. Louis and in the end took most of the cash for himself. Theodore is criticized for asking for big money but Lecavalier actually went out and took the big dollars to the detriment of his team.

[BadCompany]

douper said:

LeCavalier just broke the back of the Bolts.

Richards will be a wealthy man next year 6 million + and St Louis won't want to stay for less than LeCavalier!

Great job Vinny!

Welcome to the brave new NHL.

While its nice to crucify Vinny for “screwing over the team” chances are the team was going to be screwed over anyways. They have three guys, not counting the departed Khabibulin, who arguably deserve over $6 million each. Unless they all took HUGE paycuts, Tampa wasn’t going to be able to fit them in regardless.

And those paycuts would indeed have to be huge. If Lecavalier had of signed for $5 million instead of $6.875 million, he would have lost out on $7.5 million over the course of his contract. That’s a lot of money to turn down, in the hopes that core will be held together. No guarantees of that, considering Khabby had already bolted (no pun intended), and its unclear if St. Louis and Richards would fit under the cap anyways. How many of us would turn down $7.5 million “just in case?”

Tampa is starting the year with John Grahame and Sean Burke as their goalies. Who wants to bet on them repeating with that duo? Even if Lecavalier, Richards and St. Louis all sign for a “paltry” $5 million, chances are the Bolts would have been up against the cap anyways, with no room to pick up a better goalie at the deadline. So Vinny could have been sitting there thinking “do I turn down $7.5 million to keep a team together for one more year, a year which we probably aren’t going to repeat, after which Brad and/or Marty (if not both) are probably going to be let go anyways?”

If anybody should be blamed for breaking up the Bolts, its Khabibulin. Once he left, the odds of Tampa winning the Cup again went with him. Now, its just every man for himself.

We had better get used to this. Parity, and all that. If you get good, we’re going to break you up. Ottawa is next.

[franko]

badcompany said:

Welcome to the brave new NHL.

We had better get used to this. Parity, and all that. If you get good, we’re going to break you up.

I don't think TBay would have done anything differently in the old NHL -- they weren't the freest (free-est?) of spenders in the first place, and reality just caught up with them. In all likelihood they wouldn't have kept all four if the NHL were working under the last CBA.

Ottawa is next.

Unless they find themselves this (holds thumb and forefinger a CH [pardon the slur] apart) close to winning it all (or actually do, though to do so they'd have to beat the mighty Theo) and as a team (what a concept) decide to forgo huge contracts (a lá Alfredsson -- hear that Hossa?) for the glory of carrying the Cup. (Thoughts on this happening, HA?)

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Hmmmmmmm...............
Lecavalier asked for more money. Tampa Bay gave it to him. Does that make him a bad guy?
St. Louis can ask for more money too. If they don't give it to him he can stay or move on.
Same for Richards.
Tampa Bay management is making a huge mistake, not Vincent.
Theo has asked. Gainey is too smart to cave in and hurt the team. Theo can stay for a comfortable $4.5M or move on for a possible $6M elsewhere. I think the flexibility offered by freeing up cap money is worth more than Theo and his great year in 2002. What certainty does Theo bring today? Are we certain he will be better in camp than Danis or Price?

[Andrew]

habsfaninla said:

All the more reason for Gainey to keep wiggle room under the cap for opportunities as they present themselves.

Exactly. Maybe St. Louis has dreams of playing in his home province. Perhaps next year Hossa would like to come to Montreal and play with Bonk, and his younger brother. They may be long-shots, but feasible - and Gainey has put himself in a position to persue them.

[franko]

andrew said:

Perhaps next year Hossa would like to come to Montreal and play with Bonk, and his younger brother. They may be long-shots, but feasible - and Gainey has put himself in a position to persue them.

I don't think so -- Hossa has dreams of being the next

[MC Habber]

Perhaps the Lightning should have negotiated with all three (or four) players at once: This is how much we can pay you guys in total; if you want to keep a winning team together, then figure out how to split it amongst yourselves.

Wouldn't do much for team chemistry, I know, but neither does the current situation.

(Maybe the Habs should try that strategy with Theo and his ego.)

[franko]

machabby said:

Perhaps the Lightning should have negotiated with all three (or four) players at once: This is how much we can pay you guys in total; if you want to keep a winning team together, then figure out how to split it amongst yourselves.

That's how I see it, too. You'd think the players would think that way . . . but here, Hossa is ready to walk for $, which has led to the "trade Redden" rumor. I guess a big payday is more important than a Stanley Cup ring (easy for me to say, I know -- I don't have a huge ego needing to be stroked . . . but then again my best friend once said "franko doesn't have an inferiority conplex -- he is inferior)

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

franko said:

machabby said:

Perhaps the Lightning should have negotiated with all three (or four) players at once: This is how much we can pay you guys in total; if you want to keep a winning team together, then figure out how to split it amongst yourselves.

That's how I see it, too. You'd think the players would think that way . . . but here, Hossa is ready to walk for $, which has led to the "trade Redden" rumor. I guess a big payday is more important than a Stanley Cup ring (easy for me to say, I know -- I don't have a huge ego needing to be stroked . . . but then again my best friend once said "franko doesn't have an inferiority conplex -- he is inferior)

Last year Beliveau's rings were on the auction blocks and went for around $18,000 to $30,000 each. You can buy a lot of rings with an extra $1.5M per year.

[seventeen]

badcompany said:

How many of us would turn down $7.5 million “just in case?”

"Raises his hand and waves it emphatically"

Because I'd already have $35MM in hand. I'm not greedy. I can live for....oh about 10 lifetimes with $35MM. No matter who, or what, is to blame, the chemistry and collegiality in the Lightning dressing room has just been blown like a bloated balloon. Whooohoo, the alliteration animal strikes again.

[jkr]

I am not crucifying Lecavalier for taking the money. I am just wondering why he didn't live up to that statement about the "home team discount" to keep the team together. He brought it up first - no one else did.

BC has a point though about Khabibulin. The decline of Tampa has started with his departure. Rather than be motivated to go for another Cup run he took the dollars.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Brad Richards.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

badcompany said:

If anybody should be blamed for breaking up the Bolts, its Khabibulin. Once he left, the odds of Tampa winning the Cup again went with him. Now, its just every man for himself.

This topic has come up here and there at work. Tampa had a fabulous team-game going, granted, but you can't win Cups without backstoppers like Khabibulin.

You're "every man for himself" reference rings true with both Lecavalier and Khabibulin. And, if you listen other impact players around the league, their tune is "I-me-mine" as well. There's only so much money to go around now and that is a major factor me thinks.

If I can be fair to Lecavalier though, I think he got the deal he did so as to discourage him from even thinking about going elsewhere in a year, say, Montreal. I can't say for sure, but I think this was the motivating factor when Tamp management offered him the contract they did. Might be wrong, not sure. And at those numbers who wouldn't sign?

We had better get used to this. Parity, and all that. If you get good, we’re going to break you up. Ottawa is next.

Playing for the colours still takes a back seat to cash me thinks. At least with certain players anyway.

Cheers.

[clear observer]

And at those numbers who wouldn't sign?

I'd be willing to bet he'd have gotten the same dollars from our Habs.


Just a feeling.


CO

[Forum Ghost]

admin said:

I'd be willing to bet he'd have gotten the same dollars from our Habs.

Just a feeling.

I think so too. Especially since the Habs wouldn't be the only team bidding for his services.

We were talking about offering Lecavalier $5.5M if he became a free agent, but if the Habs competed with 29 other teams for his services then I would bet that he would probably be signed for close to $7M.

If he did become a UFA, I would bet that the Avs would also go hard after him. Pierre Lacroix has always been a huge Lecavalier fan. During the '98 draft Lacroix was willing to give up all four of his first round picks for Vinny. Teams like Colorado would jack up the price for Vinny forcing the Habs to sign him for close to $7M.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

admin said:

And at those numbers who wouldn't sign?

I'd be willing to bet he'd have gotten the same dollars from our Habs.


Just a feeling.


CO

Saku Koivu is the heart and soul of the Canadiens. He is the captain, spiritual leader, cancer survivor.
The team would have dropped him like a hot potato if it needed cap room to replace him with a certain 6'4" superstar homegrown french canadian center.
Loyalty is a two way street.
I don't blame Lecavalier for cashing the cheques he's given and I don't blame St. Louis for looking elsewhere.
Theo knows it, Meagan knows it and Gainey knows it! Mr. Red Wing, Gordie Howe toiled for years never earning more than $25,000 in Detroit. Howe played for Hartford, Gretzky went to LA, St. Louis, and New York. It's a business.

[Yossarian]

The direction things seem to be going towards, are all the leagues 20-30 top stars being distributed amongst each of the teams, each earning in the 7 mill plus range.

In the long run, I can't see each team affording a player in the Khabibulin/Lecavalier salary range, and being able to afford to build around the one player. It is really, more than ever, going to take a GM with foresight, restraint, and gumption to resist doling out these contracts. I think Tampa has made a huge error by offering this money to Lecavalier.

Under a cap, its all about value now, wherein before a player's value was determined by whatever a team was willing to pay. 7 mill plus, should be reserved for franchise type players, and in my eyes, there are only 3 or 4 in the game today. I would describe such a player as having multiple MVP type seasons as a consideration, with consistent superior performance, such as Iginla. The rest are all interchangeable with someone else, given the amount of players that will be UFA, maybe 2-3 times in their careers now. You can make a case that for TB, St. Louis and Khabibulin deserved the highest salary on TB, but nowhere close to the 7 mill range. If I were building that team, its the approach I would have taken. Of course, its easier said than done, given how Chicago ruined the plan by offering Khabibulin the ridiculous contract. Byt in terms of actual value, TB maybe actually getting more, given what they will be paying Burke/Graham, and their on ice performance. For Chicago to gain that type of value from Khabibulin, he will need to steal at least 10 regular season games on his own, Chicago make the playoffs, and winning at least 2 playoff rounds. Anything less is poor value, for what they've spent, IMO.

I'm glad the Habs have a GM who acknowledges that he has no idea how aspects of the CBA will work and pan out, and is thus taking a prudent approch towards signing his star goalie, and others, relying on value, as a way of assessing a player's salary, for the sake of having some long term, team-building flexibility. In the long run, I think it will be the right approach, and teams employing this strategy, along with sound drafting and development to replace players that have overvalued themselves, will be the most successful.

[franko]

habsfaninla said:

Last year Beliveau's rings were on the auction blocks and went for around $18,000 to $30,000 each. You can buy a lot of rings with an extra $1.5M per year.

But you can't buy your name on the Stanley Cup.

Yup, I made more money than franko could ever hope to spend . . . but the Grail eluded me.

[clear observer]

franko said:

habsfaninla said:

Last year Beliveau's rings were on the auction blocks and went for around $18,000 to $30,000 each. You can buy a lot of rings with an extra $1.5M per year.

But you can't buy your name on the Stanley Cup.

Yup, I made more money than franko could ever hope to spend . . . but the Grail eluded me.

For years, L.A.'s Marcel Dionne was the league's top earner....and rightly so.....however, looking back, I'd bet the farm he'd trade 1978's total income to have skated for our Habs.

CO

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

admin said:

franko said:

But you can't buy your name on the Stanley Cup.

Yup, I made more money than franko could ever hope to spend . . . but the Grail eluded me.

That is true of players who made a lot of money, but there are players who are selling their rings, plaques and memorabilia at auction. Having said all that, I would try to make room for another smurf forward named St. Louis on the Hab's lineup.



For years, L.A.'s Marcel Dionne was the league's top earner....and rightly so.....however, looking back, I'd bet the farm he'd trade 1978's total income to have skated for our Habs.

CO

[legaspesien]

www.tampabaylightning.com/?category=3