Avery just doesn't learn

[jkr]

According to Georges Laraque, he was slurred by Sean Avery but it looks like the league will do nothing because they can't comfirm it. Knowing Avery's history of saying moronic things, I believe Georges.

Story below:

tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=139531&hubname=nhl

[Cranky]

So what's wrong with Georgeous George taking Avery to center ice and re-organizing Avery's software?

[roke]

habsaddict said:

So what's wrong with Georgeous George taking Avery to center ice and re-organizing Avery's software?

In the nicest way I can put it... I don't think Avery has the courage to back up his words by dropping the gloves with Big Georges, or most Francophone enforcers.

[seventeen]

roke said:

In the nicest way I can put it... I don't think Avery has the courage to back up his words by dropping the gloves with Big Georges, or most Francophone enforcers.

Put through the doublespeak machine and out comes:

"In other words, he's a chicken s__t. " There, nothing racial about that comment. With apologies to the Rhode Island Reds of the world, of course.

[MC Habber]

seventeen said:

roke said:

In the nicest way I can put it... I don't think Avery has the courage to back up his words by dropping the gloves with Big Georges, or most Francophone enforcers.

Put through the doublespeak machine and out comes:

"In other words, he's a chicken s__t. " There, nothing racial about that comment. With apologies to the Rhode Island Reds of the world, of course.

Hmmm... put it through Google Translate and out comes:

When the Avery the one that can support, that one the skin the Georges of company 1 of the word is limited simultaneously due to the solid one and, or of the value? which is later part of the glove in which this fall the talkative French majority of the execution is great - to, that one does not think.

(Can you tell I'm bored and avoiding doing any work?)

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

machabby said:

...that one does not think.

Neatly summed up.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

I can't count the times I've heard a hockey player refer to another's maternal lineage, sexual proclivities, physical appearance, mother tongue, race or color in ways devised to anger and incite. I know it's not politically correct, but I really don't see a big deal? My only surprise is the moral indignation and outrage that has been produced from what is a relatively minor offense.

Oh yeah!! #@(% you and the horse your mother rode in on you *&^%$#@!

[jkr]

habsfaninla said:

I can't count the times I've heard a hockey player refer to another's maternal lineage, sexual proclivities, physical appearance, mother tongue, race or color in ways devised to anger and incite. I know it's not politically correct, but I really don't see a big deal? My only surprise is the moral indignation and outrage that has been produced from what is a relatively minor offense.

Oh yeah!! #@(% you and the horse your mother rode in on you *&^%$#@!

So it is alright to say anything to anybody as long as it's on the playing field?

This goes beyond being politically incorrect and it is "no big deal"or a "minor offense" to people who are not black because they don't understand the magnitude of the insult. Just because there is free speech does not mean it is right to spew racist comments.

[Polarice]

Is calling someone a monkey worse than calling someone a faggot, or whatever? I know in the heat of battle people can say things they dont mean. I know I have and I dont condsider myself a racist! I think what is said on the ice or field should stay there. Let the players work it out for themselves.

I've been called everything in the books over the years and I never went crying to anyone, I dealt with it like a man should, Myself!!!

[Doc Holliday]

Racists comments have no place anywhere and relying solely on vigilante justice to take care of that leads to anarchy and violence. These comments are not any more acceptable in a rink than they are around the coffee machine.

[Polarice]

docholliday said:

Racists comments have no place anywhere and relying solely on vigilante justice to take care of that leads to anarchy and violence. These comments are not any more acceptable in a rink than they are around the coffee machine.

The problem lies at what would be considered a racists comment? When I played hockey all the other teams called us "farmers" because we were country folk. But none of us lived on a farm. By some peoples definition that would be a racists comment. However we just laughed at them. Damn Townies.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

polarice said:

docholliday said:

Racists comments have no place anywhere and relying solely on vigilante justice to take care of that leads to anarchy and violence. These comments are not any more acceptable in a rink than they are around the coffee machine.

The problem lies at what would be considered a racists comment? When I played hockey all the other teams called us "farmers" because we were country folk. But none of us lived on a farm. By some peoples definition that would be a racists comment. However we just laughed at them. Damn Townies.

Ethnic slurs are quite another thing as they derive from hatred and ignorance. As Doc said, they have no place in hockey or broader society, freedom of speech notwithstanding.

[blny]

Somewhere, sometime, Avery will get his. It may not be Laracque, it may not even be a black player. But, someone will tag Sean. If he continues to put his foot in his mouth he's gonna have a long list of enemies.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

blny said:

Somewhere, sometime, Avery will get his. It may not be Laracque, it may not even be a black player. But, someone will tag Sean. If he continues to put his foot in his mouth he's gonna have a long list of enemies.

Or he will need to have that foot surgically removed from his mouth.

[Polarice]

mrbozo said:

blny said:

Somewhere, sometime, Avery will get his. It may not be Laracque, it may not even be a black player. But, someone will tag Sean. If he continues to put his foot in his mouth he's gonna have a long list of enemies.

Or he will need to have that foot surgically removed from his mouth.

Yep, its gonna be fun to watch, I'm sure someone here will post the Video.

[blny]

mrbozo said:

blny said:

Somewhere, sometime, Avery will get his. It may not be Laracque, it may not even be a black player. But, someone will tag Sean. If he continues to put his foot in his mouth he's gonna have a long list of enemies.

Or he will need to have that foot surgically removed from his mouth.

LOL - I saw in the hilights last night that Malty popped him in the mouth at one point near the end of the game. He was down like he'd been hit by a heavy weight.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

jkr said:

habsfaninla said:

I can't count the times I've heard a hockey player refer to another's maternal lineage, sexual proclivities, physical appearance, mother tongue, race or color in ways devised to anger and incite. I know it's not politically correct, but I really don't see a big deal? My only surprise is the moral indignation and outrage that has been produced from what is a relatively minor offense.

Oh yeah!! #@(% you and the horse your mother rode in on you *&^%$#@!

So it is alright to say anything to anybody as long as it's on the playing field?

This goes beyond being politically incorrect and it is "no big deal"or a "minor offense" to people who are not black because they don't understand the magnitude of the insult. Just because there is free speech does not mean it is right to spew racist comments.

If we were standing in line for a teller at the Royal Bank, it's unlikely that I would tell you to hurry up and reference your mothers marital status at the time of your birth. On the rink, (if I think it may piss you off) I might question your sisters honor. I really think nothing is meant by it, other than to encite a reaction that could instigate a retaliatory penalty. Watching reruns of Archie Bunker I see slurs that would be considered unacceptable on television today. Lucy and Desi constantly puffed on cigarettes in their early shows. Today political correctness censorship eliminates cigarettes from tv. Have we moved forward or regressed. I prefer individuals taking responsibility for their actions instead of bands of censors eliminating all they deem offensive.
On the ice I can be called ni@@er or j#w and it has nothing to do with my political correctness. On the ice I can be crosschecked with a large wooden stick. If I were struck in that manner in line at the bank it would be an assault. I do think there is another standard that applies in sporting events (good or bad).

[MC Habber]

habsfaninla said:

Watching reruns of Archie Bunker I see slurs that would be considered unacceptable on television today.

I take it you've never watched Dave Chappelle.

On the ice I can be called ni@@er or j#w and it has nothing to do with my political correctness. On the ice I can be crosschecked with a large wooden stick. If I were struck in that manner in line at the bank it would be an assault. I do think there is another standard that applies in sporting events (good or bad).

On the ice if you were stabbed with a knife it would still be a crime. Different standards yes, but there are still standards.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

machabby said:

habsfaninla said:

Watching reruns of Archie Bunker I see slurs that would be considered unacceptable on television today.

I take it you've never watched Dave Chappelle.

On the ice I can be called ni@@er or j#w and it has nothing to do with my political correctness. On the ice I can be crosschecked with a large wooden stick. If I were struck in that manner in line at the bank it would be an assault. I do think there is another standard that applies in sporting events (good or bad).

On the ice if you were stabbed with a knife it would still be a crime. Different standards yes, but there are still standards.

Absolutely. A knife has no place on a hockey rink. Neither does spearing to the eye or a deliberate intent to injure. It's ok to crosscheck an opponent in the back to stop him from scoring, but if you crosscheck him in the teeth intending to injure him, it's a crime.

If you don't play Iginla because you don't want a black player on your team it's a crime, but if somebody on another team taunts him to get him off his game, they probably won't be calling him Jap or Newfie.
What happens on the ice stays on the ice.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

habsfaninla said:

What happens on the ice stays on the ice.

Apparently not, else we wouldn't be talking about it.

[Deleted]

habsfaninla said:

If you don't play Iginla because you don't want a black player on your team it's a crime, but if somebody on another team taunts him to get him off his game, they probably won't be calling him Jap or Newfie.
What happens on the ice stays on the ice.

How is "newfie" a derogatory term? How different is it from calling somebody a "shwa"?

[PTH]

mattdhf said:

habsfaninla said:

If you don't play Iginla because you don't want a black player on your team it's a crime, but if somebody on another team taunts him to get him off his game, they probably won't be calling him Jap or Newfie.
What happens on the ice stays on the ice.

How is "newfie" a derogatory term? How different is it from calling somebody a "shwa"?

Save your breath man, save your breath.

This is a lost cause.

[drkcloud]

The words you choose to try to bring down another man say a lot of your own character and personality. Attacking a man based on race on the ice while angry just shows how deep it is interred and what he is made of. There is a big difference between "a--hole and ni--er" A world of difference.

(And Archie Bunker was created as a jest at the ignorance of that mentality and designed to make you think while having a chuckle. That is why it is considered a great icon and not "just something they could get away with back then")

ok enough soapbox

[jkr]

pth said:

Save your breath man, save your breath.

This is a lost cause.

Unfortunately right. People that are never the object of derision because of race ,religion, language or other reasons don't realize how deep these slurs cut.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

jkr said:

pth said:

Save your breath man, save your breath.

This is a lost cause.

Unfortunately right. People that are never the object of derision because of race ,religion, language or other reasons don't realize how deep these slurs cut.

I guess we need George Carlin to make a list of the seven words that are not permitted in the NHL.
Rewatch the movie "Slapshot". Were the slurs worse than the fights? When Paul Newman ...............never mind?

[BadCompany]

Well I won’t save my breath. Ignorance can only be corrected with knowledge.

For me, this is a black and white issue, pun intended. There are no grey areas, nor should there be any leniency or mitigating circumstances. Certain things are wrong, whether they are said in the heat of battle or not. Racial slurs are one of these things.

Said to get somebody off their game?? Come on, what kind of crap is that? This is hockey, not warfare, no matter how many analogies we might use. Its entertainment, or at least it ought to be. Ever been to a hockey game? You can hear the players loud and clear. In fact, the NHL is trying to play this up, putting mics on players, coaches, and even referees. What do you say to the 10 year old black kid sitting at rink side who hears Jarome Iginla being called a n***a? “Oh, he just said it to get him off his game??” As a black father, would you take your son back to a game after that? Does a Jewish man say “Its okay son, he didn’t mean Jeff Halpern is REALLY a k**e, he’s just saying that because the score is 3-2, and he has two assists??”

Of course not. If you are going to allow that kind of behavior, then make games 18 and over only, don’t televise them in prime time, and quit pretending you’re pandering to anything other than the lowest common denominator. And let me know, so I can stop being a fan.

No place, no execuses, no exceptions. None.

[jkr]

habsfaninla said:

jkr said:

Unfortunately right. People that are never the object of derision because of race ,religion, language or other reasons don't realize how deep these slurs cut.

I guess we need George Carlin to make a list of the seven words that are not permitted in the NHL.
Rewatch the movie "Slapshot". Were the slurs worse than the fights? When Paul Newman ...............never mind?

You can't compare a movie to real life.

We don't need a censor but what we do need is the proper reaction when these things are said. Trying to pass it off as blowing off steam on the ice is bogus.

As one of the posters says above, if you utter that stuff on the ice then it's a true reflection of how you feel off the ice

[Forum Ghost]

badcompany said:

Well I won’t save my breath. Ignorance can only be corrected with knowledge.

For me, this is a black and white issue, pun intended. There are no grey areas, nor should there be any leniency or mitigating circumstances. Certain things are wrong, whether they are said in the heat of battle or not. Racial slurs are one of these things.

Said to get somebody off their game?? Come on, what kind of crap is that? This is hockey, not warfare, no matter how many analogies we might use. Its entertainment, or at least it ought to be. Ever been to a hockey game? You can hear the players loud and clear. In fact, the NHL is trying to play this up, putting mics on players, coaches, and even referees. What do you say to the 10 year old black kid sitting at rink side who hears Jarome Iginla being called a n***a? “Oh, he just said it to get him off his game??” As a black father, would you take your son back to a game after that? Does a Jewish man say “Its okay son, he didn’t mean Jeff Halpern is REALLY a k**e, he’s just saying that because the score is 3-2, and he has two assists??”

Of course not. If you are going to allow that kind of behavior, then make games 18 and over only, don’t televise them in prime time, and quit pretending you’re pandering to anything other than the lowest common denominator. And let me know, so I can stop being a fan.

No place, no execuses, no exceptions. None.

AMEN!

I couldn't agree more BC.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

badcompany said:

Well I won’t save my breath. Ignorance can only be corrected with knowledge.

For me, this is a black and white issue, pun intended. There are no grey areas, nor should there be any leniency or mitigating circumstances. Certain things are wrong, whether they are said in the heat of battle or not. Racial slurs are one of these things.

Said to get somebody off their game?? Come on, what kind of crap is that? This is hockey, not warfare, no matter how many analogies we might use. Its entertainment, or at least it ought to be. Ever been to a hockey game? You can hear the players loud and clear. In fact, the NHL is trying to play this up, putting mics on players, coaches, and even referees. What do you say to the 10 year old black kid sitting at rink side who hears Jarome Iginla being called a n***a? “Oh, he just said it to get him off his game??” As a black father, would you take your son back to a game after that? Does a Jewish man say “Its okay son, he didn’t mean Jeff Halpern is REALLY a k**e, he’s just saying that because the score is 3-2, and he has two assists??”

Of course not. If you are going to allow that kind of behavior, then make games 18 and over only, don’t televise them in prime time, and quit pretending you’re pandering to anything other than the lowest common denominator. And let me know, so I can stop being a fan.

No place, no execuses, no exceptions. None.

Well, there it is.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

jkr said:

habsfaninla said:

I guess we need George Carlin to make a list of the seven words that are not permitted in the NHL.
Rewatch the movie "Slapshot". Were the slurs worse than the fights? When Paul Newman ...............never mind?

You can't compare a movie to real life.

We don't need a censor but what we do need is the proper reaction when these things are said. Trying to pass it off as blowing off steam on the ice is bogus.

As one of the posters says above, if you utter that stuff on the ice then it's a true reflection of how you feel off the ice

At this point I agree with PTH. It's not productive to continue this debate with one exception;

"The stuff I utter on the ice is definately not a reflection of how I feel off the ice." I may tell a player that I slept with his mother, but I definately did not and have no plans to do so. I may use the "N" or "J" word, but I have nothing but respect for Iginla and Halpern and in no way consider tham or their race objects for derision.
If a player is short I call him shrimp, if he's tall I call him moose, fat pig, skinny toothpick, hic, frog, bloke. I don't have anything against short or tall people Dags and Locke, French or Portugese Begin Latendresse Ribs etc. I would welcome Iginla on the Habs in a heartbeat, cheer him when he wears a CH and boo him when he wears a Flaming C. If we judged John Ferguson or Tie Domi solely by their actions on the ice we would miss their very different persona off the ice. I may not follow the politically correct crowd marching in lockstep, but I certainly do not consider myself racist because of on ice taunts that carry no deeper meaning whatsoever.