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Post by cigarviper on Apr 4, 2006 23:16:32 GMT -5
7:18 PM EDT, 04/04/2006
Goaltender Jose Theodore practices with Avalanche for first time
DENVER (AP) - Taking a key step in his recovery from a broken heel, goaltender Jose Theodore participated in his first full practice with the Colorado Avalanche on Tuesday.
Theodore was in full pads and took part in the entire practice, team spokesman Damen Zier said. No estimate has been made on when he will play his first game for Colorado, though the team has said he would be 100 per cent for the NHL playoffs.
"He said every day's better than the one before," Zier said.
The Avalanche traded goalie David Aebischer to Montreal for Theodore on March 8. Theodore has not played since fracturing his right heel while putting salt on the ice outside his Montreal home during the Olympic break.
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 5, 2006 9:02:40 GMT -5
...the team has said he would be 100 per cent for the NHL playoffs. At least his heel will be at 100%..... |
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Post by cigarviper on Apr 5, 2006 10:33:52 GMT -5
...the team has said he would be 100 per cent for the NHL playoffs. At least his heel will be at 100%..... ...meaning...he'll be 100% as good as he was prior to his injury. I really wish him well. Just not overly well.  |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 9, 2006 21:00:39 GMT -5
If I was the guy who engraves the Stanley Cup, I'd start practicing Theo's name now ... and don't forget the accent mark!
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Post by MC Habber on Apr 9, 2006 21:06:59 GMT -5
Theo is up to his old tricks: 3 goals on 16 shots so far in his Colorado debut (he came in to relieve Budaj, 5 minutes into the game).
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Post by Skilly on Apr 9, 2006 21:10:53 GMT -5
Theo is up to his old tricks: 3 goals on 16 shots so far in his Colorado debut (he came in to relieve Budaj, 5 minutes into the game). so it is true ... you can't teach an old dog new tricks! ;D |
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Post by MC Habber on Apr 9, 2006 21:13:36 GMT -5
Theo is up to his old tricks: 3 goals on 16 shots so far in his Colorado debut (he came in to relieve Budaj, 5 minutes into the game). so it is true ... you can't teach an old dog new tricks! ;D Having just watched the replays, it didn't look like there was much he could have done about any of those goals. Still, not the start he was hoping for, and with his confidence problems, he could really have benefitted from a strong first game. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 9, 2006 21:20:02 GMT -5
so it is true ... you can't teach an old dog new tricks! ;D Having just watched the replays, it didn't look like there was much he could have done about any of those goals. Still, not the start he was hoping for, and with his confidence problems, he could really have benefitted from a strong first game. He practises with the team for the first time on April 3/4th. They get him into a game April 8th. You think they might be rushing him back? Hasek has been skating with the team for awhile now and they still aren't sure when he is going to be back ... I guess it is good to get him some time before the playoffs, but is putting him in net unexpectantly 5:00 minutes into the first period the way to do it? |
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Post by MC Habber on Apr 9, 2006 21:28:35 GMT -5
Having just watched the replays, it didn't look like there was much he could have done about any of those goals. Still, not the start he was hoping for, and with his confidence problems, he could really have benefitted from a strong first game. He practises with the team for the first time on April 3/4th. They get him into a game April 8th. You think they might be rushing him back? Hasek has been skating with the team for awhile now and they still aren't sure when he is going to be back ... I guess it is good to get him some time before the playoffs, but is putting him in net unexpectantly 5:00 minutes into the first period the way to do it? I do find it odd that they would dress him as a backup in his first game. Either he is ready to go, in which case he should start, or he is not, in which case Kolesnik should be the backup. OTOH, it seems to be common practice when dealing with injured goalies to have them sit on the bench for a game or 2 before starting, but I've never understood the logic. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2006 21:34:24 GMT -5
I recall Patrick Roy having a weak debut with the Avs, too.
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 10, 2006 0:54:29 GMT -5
Finding excuses already? |
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Post by blny on Apr 10, 2006 8:18:13 GMT -5
You'd have to expect some rust after the lengthy lay off. The hilights on NHL.com didn't show any saves of his. Two of the three goals he allowed were plays where he was moving from one post to the other, and the puck got through him. The last was a scramble play that he had no chance on really.
Watching the hilights, it's amazing how fast Gaborik is. He really needs to get to a market where his talent can flourish. He's a lone wolf in Minny, and considering the Wild aren't winning playing the way they do, he's got to be getting tired of Lemaire's defence first philosophy. Marion is a UFA next summer. Unless the Wild spend some $ to improve the supporting cast this summer, he's gonna walk in the summer of 2007.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2006 11:45:51 GMT -5
The defense-first system usually works better for teams with talent.
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Post by blny on Apr 10, 2006 12:55:30 GMT -5
The defense-first system usually works better for teams with talent. Defensive talent yeah, but it's a common system employed by those short on skill. The trap, and system-based coaching, while choking off skill, was also used because grinders are often teachable, and will do anything to win. Look at the teams that have had success in the last 10-12 years. The Devils, early Panthers teams, etc. Often they were short on skill, but long on work ethic and systems. They played safe hockey and had just enough skill to capitalize on a couple of plays a game. |
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 10, 2006 14:02:33 GMT -5
Skilly, I'm going to post my Theo/Avs related stuff in this Non-Habs thread where it belongs. The following is the continuation of our discussion from the Habs-related thread. Thats called going fishing for a reaction ... ..... us Newfs are good fishermen, you know. ;D Saying on a Habs' board that Theo would win the Cup with the Avs this year, and that the Habs' season will go down the toilet without him is also fishing for a reaction. I bit. Yeah I always thought Theo was to blame for being down 3-0! How many teams have recovered from a 3-0 deficit again? 2? As a starter, as the main guy in net, Theo has never lost in the first round. I never said he was to blame. You claimed Theo has never lost in the first round. He has. As for Theo's game last night against the Wild. Well, MC thought he didnt have much of a chance on any of them. Perspective. When I saw the replays I thought he looked like the Theo that was here all year ...... but he hasn't played since late January/early February .... anyway the Avs have jelly JAM (Joe, Alex, Milan)for the squeaks being cause by the rust. And they also have CLR (Clark, Liles, RobBlake)!! ;D I watched the entire game....and I felt he could have stopped the Gaborik breakaway. The first one was on the PP, and the third one, he had no chance on....Gaborik was all alone at the side of the net and Theo couldn't dive across fast enough. Clever nicknames for the Avs aside....they're still going to make mistakes and take penalties...and Theo is going to have to be every bit "the man" that he was being paid to be in Montreal. I wish him no ill will.....but I call the play as I see it. If I witness him standing on his head once again, I'll be among the first to give him credit. I always have... |
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Post by franko on Apr 10, 2006 14:28:39 GMT -5
If I may intrude on the discussion (well, I am anyway) . . .
I would have liked to see Theo at the top of his game a couple of seasons ago, traded him then for a bigger piece(s) of the puzzle for the next couple of seasons when we'll be contenders.
Theo was adequate and average after his Vezina season, but for whatever reason lost his edge (or whatever it was that he had).
As I see it, Garon = Huet = ? and might be adequate enough to carry the day with a good offense and defense; Theo should have been more than = Abby (say, that power forward or #2 D that we so desperately need) but his recent play dictated that he was not. We'll see how his future goes. Don't forget that earlier this year some were bemoaning the loss of Vokoun (wo is now out for the year -- bye-bye Preds from the looks of it).
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 10, 2006 14:36:18 GMT -5
I watched the entire game....and I felt he could have stopped the Gaborik breakaway. The first one was on the PP, and the third one, he had no chance on....Gaborik was all alone at the side of the net and Theo couldn't dive across fast enough. I only saw the highlights, so I can’t comment on his overall play, but in my opinion he had no chance on any of the three goals. The first was a deflected shot on the power play, and the second was a clear-cut break-away by Marian Gaborik. I mean geez, Marian Gaborik. He’s one of the games best, pure offensive talents. That was pretty much a penalty shot he was given there, that’s how clear he was. I don’t think any goalie should be faulted for giving up a goal to Gaborik on a penalty shot, do you? The third was just a bad bounce to the aforementioned Gaborik who only had to put it into an open net. The only way a goalie stops that play is if the shooter messes up (hits him in the chest, misses the net, whatever), and Gaborik isn’t a shooter that messes up too regularily. Theodore’s real test will come tomorrow night. He’ll be playing a tired Phoenix team that isn’t very good to begin with. It’s the ideal situation to break in a rusty, insecure goalie. If he struggles there… |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2006 17:27:11 GMT -5
I never said he was to blame. You claimed Theo has never lost in the first round. He has. In those playoff series, he was taking over a shaky Thibault and a weak Moog. He looked pretty good. |
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 10, 2006 18:02:52 GMT -5
I watched the entire game....and I felt he could have stopped the Gaborik breakaway. The first one was on the PP, and the third one, he had no chance on....Gaborik was all alone at the side of the net and Theo couldn't dive across fast enough. the second was a clear-cut break-away by Marian Gaborik. I mean geez, Marian Gaborik. He’s one of the games best, pure offensive talents. That was pretty much a penalty shot he was given there, that’s how clear he was. I don’t think any goalie should be faulted for giving up a goal to Gaborik on a penalty shot, do you? I said he "could" have stopped it, not he "should" have stopped it. No blame in my statement at all, as I took into consideration the rust on Theo's game in an earlier post. But I've seen goalies make that save before. That's why I said "could". My main point in this thread is that all three goals were caused by something the Avs (and all teams) will continue to do....take penalties, pinch and get caught, and leave men uncovered. Mistakes happen....and the great goalies have that something special that makes the improbable save to bail them out. I watched the Dallas-Anaheim game a few nights ago....and the Ducks were all over the Stars in the third period. Trailing 4-3, they fired 15 shots on Turco....12 of them were excellent scoring chances. I thought at least 5 were sure goals. Dallas won 5-3. We've all seen Theo, and lately Huet, play like that too. Remember Brodeur's antics on Saturday? A two-minute 5-on-3 at the end of the first....I thought we had scored at least a couple...but he was brilliant. |
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 10, 2006 18:26:33 GMT -5
I never said he was to blame. You claimed Theo has never lost in the first round. He has. In those playoff series, he was taking over a shaky Thibault and a weak Moog. He looked pretty good. Yeah, I remember being very impressed with Theo in that 4-3 OT win. The backbreaker in that series was Game 3 in Montreal. We finally got to Brodeur for 4 goals...but Thibault had a horrible game and allowed 6. Brodeur also scored an empty netter against us in that series....I forget which game it was. Perhaps it's best forgotten. The Leafs missed the playoffs that year...so we got to watch the Habs here in Ontario. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 11, 2006 7:13:37 GMT -5
I never said he was to blame. You claimed Theo has never lost in the first round. He has. As a starter he hasn't. He played 2 games in 1997. Those 2 games you alluded to against New Jersey. He won game 4, and lost game 5. He was not the starter. Thibault stunk the joint out and had to be replaced. With the season all but finished being down 3-0, he gave the team hope. What if Theo started games 1-3? His save percentage was 0.940 in this series. In 1998, he again was not the starter. He played 3 games, at least 2 were in after the game was lost. And he had a save percentage of something like 0.970 in those 3 games. In 2002 he played 12 games as a starter and went 6-6. If not for Therrien losing his cool we dont lose to Carolina in round 2. In 2004 he played 11 games as a starter and went 4-7. The offense dried up in round 2, but he also didnt do the team any favours. So where has he lost in round 1 as a starter. Heck how can you even say he lost in round 1 at all. Back-ups don't have much effect on the outcome of the series. |
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 11, 2006 11:16:31 GMT -5
I never said he was to blame. You claimed Theo has never lost in the first round. He has. Okay...but you didn't say that in your original post. Yes, as a starter he's won both first round appearances. He played 2 games in 1997. Those 2 games you alluded to against New Jersey. He won game 4, and lost game 5. He was not the starter. Thibault stunk the joint out and had to be replaced. With the season all but finished being down 3-0, he gave the team hope. What if Theo started games 1-3? His save percentage was 0.940 in this series. When you play games in a playoff round, you are involved in either winning them, or losing them. Theo's save %? You've said goaltending numbers aren't important to you. I've said they are always important, not just when Theo has good ones. In 1998, he again was not the starter. He played 3 games, at least 2 were in after the game was lost. And he had a save percentage of something like 0.970 in those 3 games. The Habs beat Pittsburgh 4-2 in Round 1. I don't remember which games Theo played. We lost to Buffalo 4-0 in Round 2. If Theo was in net in Round 1...he was a part of winning it. So it fits your assertion. And again with the impressive save %. In 2002 he played 12 games as a starter and went 6-6. If not for Therrien losing his cool we dont lose to Carolina in round 2. Yep...Theo continued his best year ever...bailing the team out time and time again. Then Therrien lost the pi$$ing match to Fraser and the guys collapsed in Game 4 and never recovered. Theo seemed exhausted. He got pulled in Game 6 in Montreal...and Therrien did the right thing in putting him back in the net near the end...giving Theo the recognition he deserved. In 2004 he played 11 games as a starter and went 4-7. The offense dried up in round 2, but he also didnt do the team any favours. Khabibulin had a lot to do with our offense drying up. He outplayed Theo...who had played brilliantly in Games 5, 6, and 7 vs. the Bruins. Back-ups don't have much effect on the outcome of the series. I'll use a quote of yours from above to contradict you. "Thibault stunk the joint out and had to be replaced. With the season all but finished being down 3-0, he gave the team hope. What if Theo started games 1-3? His save percentage was 0.940 in this series." Apparently you think a back-up could have had a great effect on that series. Funny, too, how it was Thibault's fault....not our defense, not our offense drying up, not Brodeur playing better... You're right, Skilly, perception is everything. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 11, 2006 12:38:49 GMT -5
You are right, this is fun. When you play games in a playoff round, you are involved in either winning them, or losing them. Theo's save %? You've said good goaltending numbers aren't important to you. I've said they are always important, not just when Theo has them. When debating a point, it is good to use your opposition's words against him. You like numbers, I showed you numbers. I believe Theo was in net for two games in the Pitsburgh series .... the 6-3 game rings a bell. I believe he started one of the game's against Buffalo and lost. I didn't think Khabi played all that well. The Lightning outshot us something like 116-106 over the course of the series, the Habs only scored 5 goals, and only scored more than once in one game. I thought we made Khabi look good. We will have to agree to disagree on that point. Actually, I icked up on someone else saying that Thibault stunk that year. And if Theo started, then isnt Theo the starter? Semantics I know, but if he played games 1-3 then to me he is the starter not the back-up. Well you are the person who likes numbers? Thibault had a 4.3 GAA and a S% of 0.870. New Jersey scored 3 or more goals in every game, the one game they only scored 3 , they lost. So Broduer had plenty of help, he did not win the series on his own. We were outscore 22-11. So Brodeur's numbers weren't exactly great ... his GAA for instance was around 2.20 in the series and in the regular season it was 1.88 .... so we were getting to Brodeur. I can't remember every goal back then , but I can bet you I more than likely laid alot of the blame on the defense (we still had Brisebois, so nuff said .. ) |
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 11, 2006 13:22:04 GMT -5
Skilly, we're never going to agree on Theo.
You know my position. I've always been among the first to give him credit whenever it was due. I watch and evaluate every goal at face value, regardless of which goalie allows it. I have never looked for ways to bash Theo. Nor do I gloss over any goalie's miscues. The evidence is on the ice.
Every goal scored (except empty netters) can be analyzed using two criteria:
Criterion 1. The goalie could/should have stopped it (bad angle, not set, left the post, didn't cover the 5-hole, down early, etc.) The very analysis that goalie coaches use to develop programmes of improvement. "Could" is more forgiving, meaning minor tweaking is needed; i.e. It was a good shot, but he usually makes that save. Too many "shoulds" spells trouble as major adjustments are needed.
Criterion 2. The goalie had no chance (deflection, bad bounce, screened, wickedly accurate shot, men left open, perfect pass on a 2-on-1, etc.)
A great goalie is one who almost entirely eliminates Criterion 1 from his resume, and who makes a few miraculous saves in Criterion 2. Theo did it in 01-02 and has been dining on it ever since. Criterion 1 was all too evident this season...and that's what sent him packing.
It's that simple to me, and I evaluate every goalie on that premise.
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 11, 2006 22:57:34 GMT -5
Theo gets the win 6-4 over Phoenix. Don't know if he'd be happy with the last 8 minutes though. 3 goals.
He wasn't called upon very often as the Avs built up a 6-0 lead by the 9:00 mark of the second period. Theo had faced only 10 shots at that point. So I flipped over to the Calgary game. I figured he was on his way to an easy shutout as Phoenix could get nothing going offensively.
Was very surprised to see it at 6-3 when I went back. I saw the 4th Phoenix goal and it was the same kind that Gretzky scored to oust the Leafs in 93. Circle the net, bounce it in off the defenseman's skate...right between Theo's legs.
4 goals on 25 shots. Can't comment on the first three...but he had no chance on the 4th.
Now they're off to Calgary, Vancouver, and Edmonton to finish off the season, with an outside shot at catching Nashville for 4th....yet still haven't clinched.
The Calgary game should be a dandy.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 11, 2006 23:46:39 GMT -5
It's still 4 goals, on not very many shots. Obviously still rusty.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 12, 2006 7:11:58 GMT -5
Didn't see the game, but according to the Avs fans in the Hockeys Future GDT, he didn't have much chance on any of the four. They also point out that Colorado really let up in the 3rd (didn't play a lot of their big names), and that Theodore was instrumental in helping them build that big leage in the first place, by coming up big during three separate 5-3 penalty kills. (Remember when we couldn't kill off a 5-3 to save our lives?)
For whatever that's worth.
As an aside, the trolling reputation of Habs fans continues over there...
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 12, 2006 10:33:15 GMT -5
Didn't see the game, but according to the Avs fans in the Hockeys Future GDT, he didn't have much chance on any of the four. They also point out that Colorado really let up in the 3rd (didn't play a lot of their big names), and that Theodore was instrumental in helping them build that big leage in the first place, by coming up big during three separate 5-3 penalty kills. (Remember when we couldn't kill off a 5-3 to save our lives?) For whatever that's worth. As an aside, the trolling reputation of Habs fans continues over there... The Avs killed off those 5-on-3s without giving up many shots. And, yes Theo was positionally there. No problems there. Like I said, he had faced only 10 shots by the time it was 6-0 nine minutes into the second. Then I turned to the Flames game. The Avs very likely backed off a little too much, and Phoenix scored three late ones. No chance on all 4....so that's no chance on all 7 he's allowed now. |
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 12, 2006 15:58:24 GMT -5
Unfortunately for Theodore, it doesn't look like his personal problems are going away anytime soon. Appears his father-in-law might have to wait a little bit longer before seeing his new grandkid... Another alleged Cloutier victim comes forward |
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 14, 2006 2:21:26 GMT -5
Theo was sharp tonight vs. the Flames. Allowed only 1 goal, then an empty netter by Amonte sealed it 2-0. That Avs team is quick....so are the Flames, who went stride for stride.
Kiprusoff was the difference....again. Vezina for sure...and a top Hart candidate. Flames would be nowhere without him.
I bet Theo would like that goal back too....Phaneuf's point shot got through him somehow. At first I thought it was deflected....replay showed differently.
Vancouver lost so Colorado clinches anyway.
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