A devilish salary issue.

[IamCanadiens]

Can't say I fully understand the cap. I'm going to use the Devils as an example. This year's salaries total approximately 49mill according to TSN. That number includes Malakhov and Mogilny. Without those 2 the salary is approx 42mill. The cap is 44mill and a team can go 10% over the cap in the offseason. Obviously the Devils are responsible for a portion of those salaries I assume since Malakhov retired they aren't on the hook for any of that, so is Mogilny's salary is the issue? Regardless, NJ is somewhere b/t 42 and 44 and still hasn't signed Gionta (heh, heh), Martin, and Hale. Fiscally prudent GMs are sure looking great. In Bob we trust.

[Manton]

and just to add that the Devils have accepted the $5 million award to Scott Gomez signing him for one season according to TSN.

[franko]

I remembered Bob's post:

bob said:

Here's a link that I found that lists the salary cap commitments (rather than the salary) for each team

hockeyanalysis.com/?p=361

Lou should have fun. hockeyanalysis shows Malakhov at 3,600,000. I think the Devils are on the hook for at least some of it (a response at hockeyanalysis agrees, but the writer may be as in the dark as I am).

[Skilly]

franko said:

I remembered Bob's post:

bob said:

Here's a link that I found that lists the salary cap commitments (rather than the salary) for each team

hockeyanalysis.com/?p=361

Lou should have fun. hockeyanalysis shows Malakhov at 3,600,000. I think the Devils are on the hook for at least some of it (a response at hockeyanalysis agrees, but the writer may be as in the dark as I am).

The Isles are on the hook for Garth Snow's contract , so why should Malakhov's be any different.

Although I am against the idea that a player retires and his contract still counts? I understand NHL contracts are guarenteed, but how easy would it be for a player to sign a 4 million contract and then pack it in and really screw a team?

[Skilly]

iamcanadiens said:

Can't say I fully understand the cap. I'm going to use the Devils as an example. This year's salaries total approximately 49mill according to TSN. That number includes Malakhov and Mogilny. Without those 2 the salary is approx 42mill. The cap is 44mill and a team can go 10% over the cap in the offseason. Obviously the Devils are responsible for a portion of those salaries I assume since Malakhov retired they aren't on the hook for any of that, so is Mogilny's salary is the issue? Regardless, NJ is somewhere b/t 42 and 44 and still hasn't signed Gionta (heh, heh), Martin, and Hale. Fiscally prudent GMs are sure looking great. In Bob we trust.

TSN's site show salary commitments. They are basically showing what players are getting paid this year.

The cap-hit is based on the average salary each player gets over the life of their contracts, which is totally different than what they are getting from year to year (as tsn shows). As an example, Theodore is getting 5.5 million in 2006-07. But his cap hit is 5.333 million. Next year Theo will get 6 million, but his cap hit is still 5.333 million.

But you are right. New Jersey is going to have to make a trade. Mogilny and Malakhov are counting 7.1 million towards their cap and they only have 17 players signed (excluding those two). There cap hit is now at 47.4 million. They'll have to trade Gionta and shed 3.4 million before the season starts.

[roke]

I believe the rule is that if you sign a player signs a contract when they are 36 years or older their contract will count against the cap whether they retire, play in the minors or stay with the pro team.

[BadCompany]

skilly said:

But you are right. New Jersey is going to have to make a trade. Mogilny and Malakhov are counting 7.1 million towards their cap and they only have 17 players signed (excluding those two). There cap hit is now at 47.4 million. They'll have to trade Gionta and shed 3.4 million before the season starts.

The problem I see with all these “let’s fleece New Jersey” proposals (not you specifically Skilly, but in general) is that they don’t take into account that there are 28 other teams in the league. It’s not New Jersey you have to worry about, it’s those other 28 that you are going to be bidding against. Offering Ribeiro for Gomez and saying “they have to take it, they have no cap room” isn’t going to work, because all Lou has to do is call up a couple of other teams and ask “can you beat Ribeiro?”

Now would be a good time to starting using PTH’s philosophy of seeing cap space as an asset. In other words, forget about Gomez or Gionta – go for Mogilny or Malakhov. For example, “I’ll give you Joe Scrub and a 5th round pick for Alexander Mogilny and a 1st.”

New Jersey clears up cap space by dumping a guy they weren’t going to use anyways, and you get a guy who may or may not help, but it doesn’t matter, because you’re really going after the 1st round pick…

(Ribeiro and Bouillon for Malakhov, Mogilny, and two first round picks? Nah…)

[franko]

badcompany said:

Now would be a good time to starting using PTH’s philosophy of seeing cap space as an asset. In other words, forget about Gomez or Gionta – go for Mogilny or Malakhov. For example, “I’ll give you Joe Scrub and a 5th round pick for Alexander Mogilny and a 1st.”

New Jersey clears up cap space by dumping a guy they weren’t going to use anyways, and you get a guy who may or may not help, but it doesn’t matter, because you’re really going after the 1st round pick…

(Ribeiro and Bouillon for Malakhov, Mogilny, and two first round picks? Nah…)

Creative . . . very creative . . . I like the first-rounders (not that we've done a lot with them in the last too many years anyway) . . . but it looks as if we are then capped-up ourselves.

We're at 42. Taking your second example, 42-3.8+7.1=45.3.

Even taking the first example, 42 -.5 (a signed joe Scrub) +3.6 = 45.1. Is a first round pick worth a 3.6M hit against the cap and our bumping up against it?

You need to sharpen that pencil a bit more! ;D

But again, interetsting thought. While I'm out and about I'll see what Lou might do.

[blny]

Good points BC and franko.

I'll add that Gomez only ends up with a team that is presently near the bottom of the cap. He'll end up with a team that needs to add salary, and it will be a deal that is picks for Gomez. To that end, I really think all the talk about Gomez to Montreal is fruitless.

[BadCompany]

Well, I did say “nah” with my second suggestion!

At any rate, when I originally typed up that idea, I used the Columbus Blue Jackets in my examples (said Jamie Pushor and a 5th, instead of Joe Scrub). But then I thought, “who cares about the Columbus Blue Jackets?? If you want to make a name for yourself on HabsRus, you gotta talk about the Habs!”

I’m all about making a name for myself (fake though it may be).

But back to the Habs… Sure, they would bump up against the cap… but aren’t we planning on dealing Abeischeir any day now? People kept telling me he was a hot commodity, one of the best in the league, that teams would be lining up to get him… Once we deal him (undoubtedly for another 1st round pick), we’d clear a good $1.5 million from the roster. At the end of this year, Mogilny and/or Malakhov would be coming off the books, freeing up perhaps $7 million (along with Bonk’s $2.3), and we’d have 2-3 first rounders for the next couple of years… What could we do in a trade with that all that, I wonder? 4-5 first rounders, and $10 million in cap room… Can you say RFA offer? When is Gagne’s contract up?

(And once again... nahhhh...)

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

franko said:

badcompany said:

Now would be a good time to starting using PTH’s philosophy of seeing cap space as an asset. In other words, forget about Gomez or Gionta – go for Mogilny or Malakhov. For example, “I’ll give you Joe Scrub and a 5th round pick for Alexander Mogilny and a 1st.”

New Jersey clears up cap space by dumping a guy they weren’t going to use anyways, and you get a guy who may or may not help, but it doesn’t matter, because you’re really going after the 1st round pick…

(Ribeiro and Bouillon for Malakhov, Mogilny, and two first round picks? Nah…)

Creative . . . very creative . . . I like the first-rounders (not that we've done a lot with them in the last too many years anyway) . . . but it looks as if we are then capped-up ourselves.

We're at 42. Taking your second example, 42-3.8+7.1=45.3.

Even taking the first example, 42 -.5 (a signed joe Scrub) +3.6 = 45.1. Is a first round pick worth a 3.6M hit against the cap and our bumping up against it?

You need to sharpen that pencil a bit more! ;D

But again, interetsting thought. While I'm out and about I'll see what Lou might do.

Pittsburg has lots of cap room and no intention of spending it all. They are also short of cash.
Couldn't they accept Mogilny and $10,000,000 cash for a ninth round pick. They have the cap room, Mogilny may never play, they pocket the money (less what they have to pay off Mogilny) and NJ is out of trouble with a get out of jail free pass and can spend again.
We all knew that the GM's were as honest as Tour de France doctors and would find a way to circumvent the system. We just didn't know how.
Georgie Gee knows how to get around the tax code and pocket a $70 million dollar capital gain on the way to a money losing season. Surely he can solve the cap.

[seventeen]

badcompany said:

Now would be a good time to starting using PTH’s philosophy of seeing cap space as an asset. In other words, forget about Gomez or Gionta – go for Mogilny or Malakhov. For example, “I’ll give you Joe Scrub and a 5th round pick for Alexander Mogilny and a 1st.

Or, if you had enough cap space, Mogilny, Malakhov and Gomez for your 3rd line centre. Lou really opens up some Cap space, at the cost of Gomez. Yeah, it hurts, but stupidity (and Lou is rarely stupid, but he was with those 2 contracts) has its rewards.