The insanity continues in Long Island

[BadCompany]

Rick Dipietro is about to sign a fifteen-year deal.

www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177223&hubname=

Man, and people thought the Elias deal was crazy. A 10 year deal I might be able to accept, that would carry Dipietro from ages 25-35, but 15?? That's pushing it...

[Roggy]

Maybe it wasn't just Milbury being crazy all along. Things have gotten nuttier since he supposedly "stepped back". Is it possible he was a stabilizing force??

[blny]

Beate me too it. They obviously learned nothing from the Yashin deal. Snow is obviously a puppet. I don't care how good a player is, or may become, you don't sign them to a deal for 15 years. That deal totally handcuffs the team. They're stuck with DiPietro, who hasn't exactly lit the world on fire IMO, for 15 years. If they feel like trading him down the road, no one will touch him. Who would?

[Skilly]

blny said:

Beate me too it. They obviously learned nothing from the Yashin deal. Snow is obviously a puppet. I don't care how good a player is, or may become, you don't sign them to a deal for 15 years. That deal totally handcuffs the team. They're stuck with DiPietro, who hasn't exactly lit the world on fire IMO, for 15 years. If they feel like trading him down the road, no one will touch him. Who would?

This is actually brilliant!! I foresaw all these long term contracts coming. Look at it this way. Let's say he is signed to a 60 million dollar contract. That averages out to only 4 million per year. (This is only an example, so forgive the numbers). So Dipietro will cost 4 million per year on the cap. But let's say his contract front loaded in structure.

Year 1 = 8 million
Year 2 = 8 million
Year 3 = 8 million
Year 4 = 8 million

Around this time you are think that maybe you want to trade him so

Year 5 = 5 million
Year 6 = 4 million
Year 7 = 3 million
Year 8 -15= 2 million

So New York banks on him being good/elite for 4 years and they are only charged 4 million on the cap, but pay him 8 million. Then in 4 years time they can re-evaluate him and if they want to trade him they find a small market team that needs to raise their cap number and they only pay him 2 million in actual dollars. Year 5 and 6 would be no real net gain for any team so they might get alot of takers interested ... but there definately would be an interest from the small market teams.

And the cap is more than likely to have an upwards trend, so it works out even more beneficial to have a 4 million cap (which might be less than 5% in ten years) hit and only pay him 2 million.
This is how the NFL work around the cap, but their money is not guaranteed. The only way this hurts the Isles is if he starts to really suck, or he suffers a career ending injury.

[blny]

For an unproven goalie? Rick hasn't exactly proved himself to this point. 15 years, no matter how you slice is far too long to invest in a player. What if revenues drop and the cap lowers? What if the CBA changes and the cap hit is the actual amount paid? The deal is longer than the cap is signed for, and to me that makes no sense. Even if none of those things change, the term of the contract is more than just about any team in their right mind would be interested in. If the contracts weren't guaranteed, that would be one thing. Say someone does trade for him in year 5. They're on the hook for ten years. He'll be 40 when the contract is done.

IMO it's too much of a gamble.

[BadCompany]

blny said:

He'll be 40 when the contract is done.

That’s the key for me. I have nothing against really long term contracts, even argued for them when Lou signed Elias for seven years. But they have to be to the right player, in the right circumstance. Giving Sydney Crosby a 15 year contract right now would be smart, in my opinion. I’d give Mike Komisarek a 10 year contract, and probably Andrei Markov one as well. But giving a 15 year contract to Rick Dipietro… I don’t know. It’s the equivalent of giving a 35 year old goalie a five year, $22.5 million contract. That seems crazy…

[blny]

Crosby or Ovechkin I can fathom. I still wouldn't do it.

[Andrew]

skilly said:

blny said:

Beate me too it. They obviously learned nothing from the Yashin deal. Snow is obviously a puppet. I don't care how good a player is, or may become, you don't sign them to a deal for 15 years. That deal totally handcuffs the team. They're stuck with DiPietro, who hasn't exactly lit the world on fire IMO, for 15 years. If they feel like trading him down the road, no one will touch him. Who would?

This is actually brilliant!! I foresaw all these long term contracts coming. Look at it this way. Let's say he is signed to a 60 million dollar contract. That averages out to only 4 million per year. (This is only an example, so forgive the numbers). So Dipietro will cost 4 million per year on the cap. But let's say his contract front loaded in structure.

Year 1 = 8 million
Year 2 = 8 million
Year 3 = 8 million
Year 4 = 8 million

Around this time you are think that maybe you want to trade him so

Year 5 = 5 million
Year 6 = 4 million
Year 7 = 3 million
Year 8 -15= 2 million

So New York banks on him being good/elite for 4 years and they are only charged 4 million on the cap, but pay him 8 million. Then in 4 years time they can re-evaluate him and if they want to trade him they find a small market team that needs to raise their cap number and they only pay him 2 million in actual dollars. Year 5 and 6 would be no real net gain for any team so they might get alot of takers interested ... but there definately would be an interest from the small market teams.

And the cap is more than likely to have an upwards trend, so it works out even more beneficial to have a 4 million cap (which might be less than 5% in ten years) hit and only pay him 2 million.
This is how the NFL work around the cap, but their money is not guaranteed. The only way this hurts the Isles is if he starts to really suck, or he suffers a career ending injury.

It's an interesting concept, but I don't think any GM would value DiPietro at 8M / per for the next four years. That's Brodeur / Kiprusoff money. Dipietro's numbers last season were 3.02 GAA and .900 Save percentage - hardly among the NHL's elite goaltenders. Why pay him that much?

[franko]

blny said:

They obviously learned nothing from the Yashin deal.

They learned how to throw money around.

skilly said:

This is how the NFL work around the cap, but their money is not guaranteed. .

This is where I think the NHL owners blew it in the last negotiations. Lou found this out last year; other GMs will in the years to come -- as will whoever buys the Islanders in 2017!

skilly said:

The only way this hurts the Isles is if he starts to really suck, or he suffers a career ending injury.

I think they'll be fine if there is a career-ending injury (count on it happening!) -- insurance will kick in and there won't be a cap hit.

[edit: I should have read the whole article -- the insurance is only for the first 6 years; the Islanders can (and why wouldn't they?) purchase another six years worth.]

andrew said:

Why pay him that much?

Rick and Garth are good friends. But if TSN is right that Wang . . . was directly involved in the negotiations it is a case of stupidity.

Islanders' owner Charles Wang . . . had indicated that if DiPietro didn't sign by Friday, when the team opens training camp in Nova Scotia, that DiPietro would not play in the 2006-07 season.

I'd sign, too.

And Skilly: you may be right -- it just may be a brilliant move. However, your figuring is wrong. The contract is a strict $4.5M a year for 15. With inflation, DiPietro will be earning the equivalent of a buck and a quarter for his last year.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

blny said:

Beate me too it. They obviously learned nothing from the Yashin deal. Snow is obviously a puppet. I don't care how good a player is, or may become, you don't sign them to a deal for 15 years. That deal totally handcuffs the team. They're stuck with DiPietro, who hasn't exactly lit the world on fire IMO, for 15 years. If they feel like trading him down the road, no one will touch him. Who would?

This was the first thing to pop into my mind as well, BLNY. They learned nothing from the Ya$hin deal.

Terrible business decision. You can have all the lockouts and players' strikes you want but it's all for not when this happens.

Cheers.

[MC Habber]

This makes the NHL look a bit bush league IMO. How often does the head office comment on a specific deal?

[MC Habber]

Hockey world reacts to DiPietro deal

Dumbfounded. Shocked. And lots of laughter.

[NWTHabsFan]

Wang would only negotiate with DiPietro, not his agent...that is strange in itself.

$4.5M for DiPietro...seems a bit high for me for what he has proven.

15 years...priceless.

Who on earth would ever trade for this guy now unless he shows himself to be the second coming of Marty Brodeur?

Almost as crazy as Booby Clarke now forcing the Nucks to have to counter with a $1.9M offer for Ryan Kesler.

What a day.

[Forum Ghost]

"Dumb" is the only word that describes this deal.

With Wang and Snow in charge, I really, really feel sorry for Isles fans.

[Andrew]

So is there a club option to promote him to a front office position after 5 years if he sucks?

[Skilly]

franko said:

And Skilly: you may be right -- it just may be a brilliant move. However, your figuring is wrong. The contract is a strict $4.5M a year for 15. With inflation, DiPietro will be earning the equivalent of a buck and a quarter for his last year.

Well that is just crazy. The only benefit to anyone with a contract structured like that is if the Isles are betting on the cap going up exponentially and often. I tell you Milbury wasn't the problem on Long Island.

[Skilly]

nwthabsfan said:

Almost as crazy as Booby Clarke now forcing the Nucks to have to counter with a $1.9M offer for Ryan Kesler.

What a day.

We all said nobody would break "the unwritten rule" and make Gagne an offer because of the reaction of Bobby Clarke ..... lo and behold the one guy we knew would flip is the guy who draws first blood. I think it just became open season on Simon Gagne. And here we are with no cap room ...

[MC Habber]

Gagne already signed with the Flyers.

[NWTHabsFan]

skilly said:

We all said nobody would break "the unwritten rule" and make Gagne an offer because of the reaction of Bobby Clarke ..... lo and behold the one guy we knew would flip is the guy who draws first blood. I think it just became open season on Simon Gagne. And here we are with no cap room ...

The tsn article had a quote from an NHL GM who said some teams may just be ready to play retribution and can hardly wait until guys like Carter and Richards become RFA's while just coming off their "cheap" entry level contract (cheap in the fact that they do have an affordable ceiling of under a million clams). A few offer sheets will force Bobby to jack up their next contracts as well.

Not sure if this is where things are heading, but it sure does open the door for a good young player's second contract to be worth a whale of a lot more than his entry level contract. It also could be the start of inflationary contracts for young players that could force a lot of teams with existing cap problems into even bigger cap problems in the future.

[Forum Ghost]

nwthabsfan said:

Not sure if this is where things are heading, but it sure does open the door for a good young player's second contract to be worth a whale of a lot more than his entry level contract. It also could be the start of inflationary contracts for young players that could force a lot of teams with existing cap problems into even bigger cap problems in the future.

It could also be another reason why GMs are going to want some breathing room and not be right up against the cap.

If other GMs start throwing around offer sheets, it's going to be important to keep some room under the cap so that you have the flexibility to match the offer.

The Flyers did it with Kesler, but what if it had happened to us with Higgins? Imagine if Higgins got offered a contract by another team at double his value, only to have the Habs not match it because they were at the cap limit.

It's times like this where it makes sense to have some breathing room under the cap.

[Forum Ghost]

skilly said:

I tell you Milbury wasn't the problem on Long Island.

He wasn't??

It's funny that you can say that about a man who had little to show after trading away players such as Brewer, Jokinen, Luongo, Bertuzzi, McCabe, Palffy and Chara.

And Milbury is the guy who passed on Dany Heatley and Marian Gaborik only to take Dipietro 1st overall in the 2000 draft.

In the Yashin deal, Mad Mike traded away (with Chara) the 2nd overall pick that turned into Jason Spezza.

This is the man who you say was not the problem on Long Island??

Milbury started the mess on Long Island. Wang and Snow are continuing it.

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

skilly said:

nwthabsfan said:

Almost as crazy as Booby Clarke now forcing the Nucks to have to counter with a $1.9M offer for Ryan Kesler.

What a day.

We all said nobody would break "the unwritten rule" and make Gagne an offer because of the reaction of Bobby Clarke ..... lo and behold the one guy we knew would flip is the guy who draws first blood. I think it just became open season on Simon Gagne. And here we are with no cap room ...

What?
No mention of the Newfoundland/Quebec 99 year contract?

[Skilly]

habsfaninla said:

What?
No mention of the Newfoundland/Quebec 99 year contract?

No ... that will all work itself out long before 2041.

[Skilly]

forumghost2 said:

skilly said:

I tell you Milbury wasn't the problem on Long Island.

He wasn't??

It's funny that you can say that about a man who had little to show after trading away players such as Brewer, Jokinen, Luongo, Bertuzzi, McCabe, Palffy and Chara.

And Milbury is the guy who passed on Dany Heatley and Marian Gaborik only to take Dipietro 1st overall in the 2000 draft.

In the Yashin deal, Mad Mike traded away (with Chara) the 2nd overall pick that turned into Jason Spezza.

This is the man who you say was not the problem on Long Island??

Milbury started the mess on Long Island. Wang and Snow are continuing it.

Mike Milbury tried to sign Dipietro to a 15 year deal last year. But he didn't because of the reaction from the league and other GMs. He listened to reason (on times). I am not saying that Mike Milbury was a good GM, cause he wasn't, but it is clearly evident now that Charles Wang is the coach/GM/director of player personell/negotiator/end all and be all of this team. For all we know he could also have his scout/drafter's cap in that closet as well.

Not sure when Wang purchased the team ... but for all Milbury's bad moves he did get some return on his investments. Yashin is/was a good player, Dipietro was touted as the next franchise goalie (and the Isles had no goalie), and the Habs have past on their fair share of players in drafts (every team has).

Milbury was out their in left field sometimes too ... but Wang seems to want a puppet and this Wang fellow is institutionally crazy!

[Yeti]

I guess the Isles won't be drafting any goalies over the next 12-13 years

Dipietro is turning out to be a disaster for the Isles. Milbury traded Luongo for the first overall pick and Mad Mike selected Dipietro instead of Heatley and Gaborik... now this!

[Disgruntled70sHab]

yeti said:

I guess the Isles won't be drafting any goalies over the next 12-13 years

Dipietro is turning out to be a disaster for the Isles. Milbury traded Luongo for the first overall pick and Mad Mike selected Dipietro instead of Heatley and Gaborik... now this!

I remember the negative reaction to the Holik and Guerin deals a few years back, but I can't recall too many decisions that have been received as negatively than this one. And watching Wang at the press conference yesterday just reaffirmed the Islanders to be in a huge mess.

Cheers.

[franko]

forumghost2 said:

In the Yashin deal, Mad Mike traded away (with Chara) the 2nd overall pick that turned into Jason Spezza.

Chara wasn't even part of "the trade". The Sens knew they were going to get Spezza; Chara was more of a "throw-in" along with Bill Muckalt (now there's the answer to a trivia question for you!).

[franko]

skilly said:

Mike Milbury tried to sign Dipietro to a 15 year deal last year. But he didn't because of the reaction from the league and other GMs. He listened to reason (on times).

Was it also not vetoed by the NHL? And will Buttman not step in here and say "uh-uh"?

Mark Spector [National Post] suggests that With his latest signing, owner Charles Wang has officially become a danger to Gary Bettman.

He says To Gary Bettman, whom it is widely believed vetoed a similar contract attempt last season, Wang is a danger. Wang becomes Bettman's first rogue owner after the tiny perfect commissioner had finally reined in those among his group who have more money than brains. On Monday, the ceiling on long-term deals was seven years. Yesterday, it became 15. As other owners follow suit, eating up 2020's salary cap quota long before 2010 has even begun, Bettman can see the horsemen gathering on the horizon, a growing cadre of owners who would aim to push the salary cap ever higher.

While the Islanders were announcing DiPietro's deal yesterday, the Philadelphia Flyers were breaking the collusive drought on tendering offer sheets to other teams' restricted free agents, going after Vancouver's Ryan Kesler. The Canucks later indicated they would match the Flyers' offer.

By then, though, it was clear that the 30 owners who joined hands to bury the NHLPA just 12 months ago have once again set out in their own self-interest. Who'd've thought that would happen?

Best line: With the Yashin signing, the firing of Neil Smith after just 40 days as the Islanders GM, and now this, it's official. The NHL has a new Harold Ballard.

[Skilly]

machabby said:

Gagne already signed with the Flyers.

When? And for how much?

TSN, NHLPA, and hockeyanalysis.com all have Gagne still unsigned. Clarke offered Gagne 4.5 million I recall and Gagne's agent has publicly stated that he wants 6 million. The Flyers only have 4 million in cap space left (without Gagne).

EDIT: Found it buried in tsn's philly team page: .. 5.25 million huh? Well who does Bobby Clarke trade away now? He has to shed 1.25 million in salary.

EDIT#2: We could shed a little over 1 million for him. Streit and Plekanec for Carter and Baumgartner ... ;D

[Andrew]

skilly said:

machabby said:

Gagne already signed with the Flyers.

When? And for how much?

TSN, NHLPA, and hockeyanalysis.com all have Gagne still unsigned. Clarke offered Gagne 4.5 million I recall and Gagne's agent has publicly stated that he wants 6 million. The Flyers only have 4 million in cap space left (without Gagne).

EDIT: Found it buried in tsn's philly team page: .. 5.25 million huh? Well who does Bobby Clarke trade away now? He has to shed 1.25 million in salary.

EDIT#2: We could shed a little over 1 million for him. Streit and Plekanec for Carter and Baumgartner ... ;D

Apparently Primeau is expected to announce his retirement today.