Komisarek done in Montreal ?

[Doc Holliday]

Considering how many felt that Ribeiro and/or Theodore are done because of their recent lackluster play and benching, why not add Komi to the mix...

Komisarek is having an horrible year and it seems that coach Julien is pretty much fed up with his sloppy play. So... Why did this highly touted prospect stalled so quickly? Was he, like most of Savard's pick, grossly overrated? Does he need a change of scenery? Couldn't we land a pretty darn good player by dangling this prospect?

I think guys like Zed and Komi could land us a pretty big fish...

[Forum Ghost]

docholliday said:

I think guys like Zed and Komi could land us a pretty big fish...

They could. I'm sure there are many teams who would be attracted by Komisarek, but I would be skeptical on trading him this early in his development. It's only been 3 1/2 seasons since the Habs drafted him.

Also, we're already thin on D and on young defencemen in general.

At the very least, the Habs should show Komo as much patience as they showed Hainsey.

But, if a trade can be worked out where we get another young D back then I wouldn't really mind. For example, if the Habs trade with Washington, I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Steve Eminger come our way.

[Doc Holliday]

forumghost2 said:

[At the very least, the Habs should show Komo as much patience as they showed Hainsey.

They gave Komi about 3 times more NHL games then they game Hainsey at the same point in their development.

You are right that we are thin on young D but you have to wonder why has Komisarek reached a ceiling so early...

[Forum Ghost]

docholliday said:

You are right that we are thin on young D but you have to wonder why has Komisarek reached a ceiling so early...

True, but it would be tough to replace a D-man with Komo's overall package. Yes he's in a terrible slump right now, but guys with Komo's tool box don't grow on trees so I would be leery of trading him right now.

[jkr]

I wouldn't give up on him so quickly.

I could be wrong but perhaps he is still dealing with the death of his mother. Everybody handles these situations in different ways.

[PTH]

I'd ask for a heck of a lot for Komi.

He has quite a toolbox, and big defensemen always take longer to bloom; I'd much rather give him every chance to make it here than elsewhere.

Let's keep in mind that early in the season he was strong and was showing more and more involvement both on offense and physically in his own zone.

Also, with his personnal issues, I think we just need to cut him some slack. He's got a lot of grieving to do and while I'd like to see him play better, I'd also keep in mind that he's got other things on his mind.

[seventeen]

Tsk, tsk, tsk. How often, in our trade dreams, do we look for a big tough young defenseman who can skate? Oh look....we have one and it's not costing us anything. Perhaps we could put more effort into handling him better. He's not an attitude problem, he's smart enough to learn...so what gives? Why do we have issues with Perezhogin, who's never had 'attitude' problems anywhere else? Why did we pariahize Hainsey, who doesn't seem to be doing badly in Columbus? Why did we not give Garon enough of a chance to shine, and he's started doing so in LA? Yes, we have a problem, but its not with the scouting staff or with our prospects.

Who does that leave?.......

PS. I'm not saying we need to can anyone, but I'd like to see a change in how we 'develop' our youngsters.

[MC Habber]

Hainsey is -5 in 17 games for Columbus, one of the worst teams in the league, and he's averaging 16:45 per game, and 19 mins/game in his last 8 games. He also leads his team in blocked shots per game. Dandenault is the only one of our d-men with a +/- better than zero. Yeah, we couldn't use Hainsey at all.

[jkr]

pth said:

Let's keep in mind that early in the season he was strong and was showing more and more involvement both on offense and physically in his own zone.

You're right.

Does anyone remember the big hit he laid on Thornton in the playoffs? And earlier in this season, in a game against the leafs, he laid out Tucker twice. He brings a physical dimension to the defense that hasn't existed in Montreal for a long time.

[TheHabsfan]

jkr said:

pth said:

Let's keep in mind that early in the season he was strong and was showing more and more involvement both on offense and physically in his own zone.

You're right.

Does anyone remember the big hit he laid on Thornton in the playoffs? And earlier in this season, in a game against the leafs, he laid out Tucker twice. He brings a physical dimension to the defense that hasn't existed in Montreal for a long time.

I agree....Komo should be off limits. Big hits can change the momentum in a hurry. He's a keeper.

THF

[Doc Holliday]

pth said:

I'd ask for a heck of a lot for Komi.

He has quite a toolbox, and big defensemen always take longer to bloom; I'd much rather give him every chance to make it here than elsewhere.

Let's keep in mind that early in the season he was strong and was showing more and more involvement both on offense and physically in his own zone.

Also, with his personnal issues, I think we just need to cut him some slack. He's got a lot of grieving to do and while I'd like to see him play better, I'd also keep in mind that he's got other things on his mind.

I guess my main point was to make everyone see that when you're in the dog house because of a slump, you're not automatically a slug or a guy on the way out...

[blny]

Don't forget he lost his mother this season.

[PTH]

docholliday said:

I guess my main point was to make everyone see that when you're in the dog house because of a slump, you're not automatically a slug or a guy on the way out...

I agree with you, to a certain extent.

I still have high hopes for Perezhogin, despite his problems this season.

However, older, more established players like Ribeiro and Théodore aren't supposed to be having growing pains; they're players we were counting on for this season.

Theo's family problems aren't a huge issue and Ribs doesn't have any legit off-ice distractions.

I for one think that Ribs' problems are a major problem, because his contributions are pretty much only visible in offensive numbers, unlike many others he has no secondary use (ie, if Bégin isn't scoring, he can still be a significant asset).

Now I've gone and made this yet another Ribeiro thread. Sorry, Doc.

[Cranky]

pth said:

docholliday said:

I guess my main point was to make everyone see that when you're in the dog house because of a slump, you're not automatically a slug or a guy on the way out...

I agree with you, to a certain extent.

I still have high hopes for Perezhogin, despite his problems this season.

However, older, more established players like Ribeiro and Théodore aren't supposed to be having growing pains; they're players we were counting on for this season.

Theo's family problems aren't a huge issue and Ribs doesn't have any legit off-ice distractions.

I for one think that Ribs' problems are a major problem, because his contributions are pretty much only visible in offensive numbers, unlike many others he has no secondary use (ie, if Bégin isn't scoring, he can still be a significant asset).

Now I've gone and made this yet another Ribeiro thread. Sorry, Doc.

Arguably, this was one of the most important game for Rib's and yet....nothing. I honestly thought that since his family and children where showcased like that, he would go through walls....and it didn't happen.

Whatever.....he may not be with the team much longer.

[cigarviper]

Back to the question at hand.

It's way too early to toss Komi aside as a bust. He's got way more lives left than Ribeiro, who is on number 8.

Will you look at that, I made this into a Ribeiro thread too.

[Vinna]

It is much to early to give up on Komi. Defencemen always develop slowly. Chris Phillips went through similar growing pains in Ottawa and Florida gave up on Jovonovski much to early. I think he will come along in time. We just need to have a little patience with him. He has had a rough year off the ice too.

[duster]

The comparison to Jovo and Phillips is a good one.

I can't imagine what he must be feeling inside with the illness and recent passing away of his mother. This sort of thing takes a while. Perhaps Julien is trying not to put too much pressure on him by reducing his ice time.

I suspect we'll see a different player next year or even in this year's playoffs.

[IamCanadiens]

vinna said:

It is much to early to give up on Komi. Defencemen always develop slowly. Chris Phillips went through similar growing pains in Ottawa and Florida gave up on Jovonovski much to early. I think he will come along in time. We just need to have a little patience with him. He has had a rough year off the ice too.

Sutton, another big blueliner, also developed slowly, then appeared to emerge a couple of seasons ago. However, this season he is having a heck of a time playing in the new NHL. I'm optimistic about Komo but I would hardly be surprised if he developed into a better skating Sutton.

[Forum Ghost]

duster said:

The comparison to Jovo and Phillips is a good one.

I can't imagine what he must be feeling inside with the illness and recent passing away of his mother. This sort of thing takes a while. Perhaps Julien is trying not to put too much pressure on him by reducing his ice time.

I suspect we'll see a different player next year or even in this year's playoffs.

I think so too. Komisarek showed last season, that he's capable of big things. I think that his mother passing away is affecting him more than we thought it would.

He obviously needs more time to heal his emotional pain. I think that once he gets over that, he's going to start being closer to the anchor that we've been needing on defence for so many years.

IMO, Komo is one of the building blocks of this team. Even though no one is untradeable, I would hope that Komo is close to that.

[seventeen]

See what you started, Doc? Deliberately, obviously.

[habmeister]

i would be irate if they traded this kid. i liked the way he was progressing, i don't care if he coughed a few pucks up when he was hammering guys. with ALL big defencemen they take a lot of time to develope. He looks exactly like Bryan Allen did with the canucks 3-4 years ago, and now the guy is very good.

[sergejean]

habmeister said:

i would be irate if they traded this kid. i liked the way he was progressing, i don't care if he coughed a few pucks up when he was hammering guys. with ALL big defencemen they take a lot of time to develope. He looks exactly like Bryan Allen did with the canucks 3-4 years ago, and now the guy is very good.

Agreed. big defensemen takes time to develop and with the season missed because of the lock out, I think it;s too early to five up on him.

[BadCompany]

Komisarek played last year, so the lockout didn't affect him.

He's also turns 24 next week. 24, for those of you keeping track at home, is Ron Hainsey's current age. Hainsey is a mere 9 months older than Komisarek, yet we were calling him a bust years ago.

I will be tres irate if they let Komisarek go, but then I was tres irate when they let Hainsey go. Beauchemin too for that matter. Actually, come to think of it, I didn't really like losing Robidas either.

But I am digressing.

Doc's point (I believe) is that our definitions of who is our isn't a bust usually depends on our opinions of them as people, and not so much on their age, or potential...

[habmeister]

badcompany said:

Komisarek played last year, so the lockout didn't affect him.

He's also turns 24 next week. 24, for those of you keeping track at home, is Ron Hainsey's current age. Hainsey is a mere 9 months older than Komisarek, yet we were calling him a bust years ago.

I will be tres irate if they let Komisarek go, but then I was tres irate when they let Hainsey go. Beauchemin too for that matter. Actually, come to think of it, I didn't really like losing Robidas either.

But I am digressing.

Doc's point (I believe) is that our definitions of who is our isn't a bust usually depends on our opinions of them as people, and not so much on their age, or potential...

i look at many things when it comes to prospects. too many to mention.

i compare him to bryan allen, another big bodied defenceman, drafted in 1998 no less. Allen was a 4th overall pick, that burke was very patient with. he didn't even become a regular until last season when he was a stellar -10. That didn't call for a trade, and this season he is a -1 and is killing penalties and hammering people.

Allen is 25 years old, komisarek is 22 years old, turning 23 in about two weeks. so i say give him two more years to know if he is a stud of bust.

[mic]

habmeister said:

badcompany said:

Komisarek played last year, so the lockout didn't affect him.

He's also turns 24 next week. 24, for those of you keeping track at home, is Ron Hainsey's current age. Hainsey is a mere 9 months older than Komisarek, yet we were calling him a bust years ago.

I will be tres irate if they let Komisarek go, but then I was tres irate when they let Hainsey go. Beauchemin too for that matter. Actually, come to think of it, I didn't really like losing Robidas either.

But I am digressing.

Doc's point (I believe) is that our definitions of who is our isn't a bust usually depends on our opinions of them as people, and not so much on their age, or potential...

i look at many things when it comes to prospects. too many to mention.

i compare him to bryan allen, another big bodied defenceman, drafted in 1998 no less. Allen was a 4th overall pick, that burke was very patient with. he didn't even become a regular until last season when he was a stellar -10. That didn't call for a trade, and this season he is a -1 and is killing penalties and hammering people.

Allen is 25 years old, komisarek is 22 years old, turning 23 in about two weeks. so i say give him two more years to know if he is a stud of bust.

As BC said above, Komisarek is 23, turning 24 in a week. While I think he shouldn't be trade (big defensman, takes long, etc, etc, etc), he isn't really the Pronger some hoped to get when he got drafted by Savard. He still might become a very good defensman, but that's not given and if Hainsey could be criticized, then I don't see why Komisarek couldn't (exept of course in these hard times for him and his family). But I would also rather keep him, as I don't see the point in making a weakness even weaker.

[Doc Holliday]

...latest I heard is Aucoin/Bell/Lapointe for
Ribeiro/Zednik/Komisarek

Also

Theodore could have requested a trade.

If we sacrifice Komisarek in a trade, could Theo landus back a dmen prospect of equal (or even better) potential ?

[habmeister]

docholliday said:

...latest I heard is Aucoin/Bell/Lapointe for
Ribeiro/Zednik/Komisarek

Also

Theodore could have requested a trade.

If we sacrifice Komisarek in a trade, could Theo landus back a dmen prospect of equal (or even better) potential ?

that trade would stink

[Disgruntled70sHab]

docholliday said:

...latest I heard is Aucoin/Bell/Lapointe for
Ribeiro/Zednik/Komisarek

Also

Theodore could have requested a trade.

If we sacrifice Komisarek in a trade, could Theo landus back a dmen prospect of equal (or even better) potential ?

If Theo goes there has to be a goaltending propect or bonafide goaltender coming back. Leaving Huet on his own would be a major risk IMHO.

Cheers.

[jkr]

docholliday said:

...latest I heard is Aucoin/Bell/Lapointe for
Ribeiro/Zednik/Komisarek

Also

Theodore could have requested a trade.

If we sacrifice Komisarek in a trade, could Theo landus back a dmen prospect of equal (or even better) potential ?

I thought Lapointe was spurned by Montreal during the free agent period. And wasn't Aucoin considered too rich for the Habs.

Aucoin - 4 mill ( I think this is for 3 - 4 years.)
Bell - 1 mill
Lapointe - 2.4

Total - 7.4

for

Ribiero - 1.1 mill
Zednik - 1.8
Komisarek - .9

Total - 3.8

The amount of years involved and the dollar difference don't make sense for Montreal.

[Doc Holliday]

jkr said:

The amount of years involved and the dollar difference don't make sense for Montreal.

As I explained a few replies above, HABS have plenty of Cap room if they decide to do such move.

As H&C said though, the trade sucks...