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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 2, 2006 17:01:44 GMT -5
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Post by spotter on Mar 2, 2006 17:29:47 GMT -5
For a brief moment when the rumours started about a Bertuzzi for Theodore trade, I thought this held some potential for the Canadiens. Since then I have changed my mind as I think the sideshow Bertuzzi would bring with him is not something the Canadiens need. Therefore, I hope there is nothing to this rumour. In this case, the devil you know (Souray) is a better fit than the devil we don't know (Bertuzzi).
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Post by jkr on Mar 2, 2006 17:41:35 GMT -5
For a brief moment when the rumours started about a Bertuzzi for Theodore trade, I thought this held some potential for the Canadiens. Since then I have changed my mind as I think the sideshow Bertuzzi would bring with him is not something the Canadiens need. Therefore, I hope there is nothing to this rumour. In this case, the devil you know (Souray) is a better fit than the devil we don't know (Bertuzzi). I agree completely with your comments re: sideshow. Who needs it especially after a so-so performance in Turin? The Habs don't have enough depth on D to make this type of deal. |
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Post by Andrew on Mar 2, 2006 17:48:22 GMT -5
For a brief moment when the rumours started about a Bertuzzi for Theodore trade, I thought this held some potential for the Canadiens. Since then I have changed my mind as I think the sideshow Bertuzzi would bring with him is not something the Canadiens need. Therefore, I hope there is nothing to this rumour. In this case, the devil you know (Souray) is a better fit than the devil we don't know (Bertuzzi). I agree completely with your comments re: sideshow. Who needs it especially after a so-so performance in Turin? The Habs don't have enough depth on D to make this type of deal. On a positive note, the media would be so busy ripping on Bertuzzi that they wouldn't have time to hound Theodore, or make up "Ribeiro said ...." stories. The rest of the Habs would be free of the media glare, and might benefit. Trade for Bertuzzi now Bob! |
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Post by jkr on Mar 2, 2006 18:01:45 GMT -5
I agree completely with your comments re: sideshow. Who needs it especially after a so-so performance in Turin? The Habs don't have enough depth on D to make this type of deal. Trade for Bertuzzi now Bob! We can call it Steve Moore's revenge.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2006 21:43:47 GMT -5
I don't want Bertuzzi in a Habs uniform.
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Post by Marvin on Mar 2, 2006 22:11:24 GMT -5
Bertuzzi has become a completely different player this year. He's still averaging a point a game, but his style of play his markedly different. His game used to be built on intimidation but he can no longer play that game, and thus is not an effective player. It's also obvious that he's playing with the weight of the world on his shoulders. I'm sure that Vancouver would love to be rid of the circus that follows him everywhere, but we don't need that circus in/on Mtl.
Marvin
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Post by PTH on Mar 2, 2006 23:03:58 GMT -5
I don't mind trading Souray for a Bertuzzi-type return, but I don't want to see Bert coming over here.
I think Souray has recovered well from a bad start to the season, but I still think a player as slow as him will never thrive in this new NHL, so I'm game to move him.
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 2, 2006 23:31:17 GMT -5
pass
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 3, 2006 8:00:03 GMT -5
Bert has more points, more goals and more penalty minutes than any HABS. Not too sure about him softening up or getting less effective...
As for the distractions around him, very often these things don't follow a player when he's traded. He's exactly what we've been missing for over a decade: a rough, talented power forward to complement Koivu.
Sure enough trading Souray would leave a hole on our D but it's not like he's been having that good a season anyway and the mother of all trades wouldn't die with Bert coming to Montreal, we could still trade for a dmen and/or, worst comes to worst, call up Cote who has looked very solid in his recent stint.
I'd do that deal.
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Post by Polarice on Mar 3, 2006 8:09:28 GMT -5
I'd take Bert for Souray in a heartbeat.
I don't see any baggage at all coming with Bertuzzi.
So what if he flattened Moore.
We need more players with his grit in our line up.
A change of scenery would be good for him.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 3, 2006 8:18:01 GMT -5
I think we'd get more out of Bertuzzi than we've been getting out of Souray at this point. We'll never see Souray's goal outburst again and Bertuzzi still has good hockey left in him. Bert has more points, more goals and more penalty minutes than any HABS. Not too sure about him softening up or getting less effective... True, but I wouldn't expect that from him in Montreal, Doc. Does Bertuzzi still play with Naslund? That aside, he'd do alright here providing the media can stay off his back. The same can be said of Doug Gilmour when he fist left St. Louis for Calgary. You beat me to this by a few minutes. Côté has shown he can play in the NHL and he really should be given that chance. Bertuzzi would benefit from a change of scenery especially being so close to the playoffs. I also think Vancouver would alleviate their blueline crisis as well. Souray would closer to his daughter who is in LA (?). That would raise both his morale and play significantly I think. Don't have a crystal ball so it's all supposition. But, I'd do the deal as well, Doc. Cheers. |
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Post by HFTO on Mar 3, 2006 8:36:50 GMT -5
How that deal would hurt us cap wise would be my only concern.
Although we desperately need help on the back end,with Souray having an off year and contributing little or no offense Cote could fill in without any drop off.
Despite the baggage Bertuzzi like Doc said is something we've never had and would be a welcome addition.
Baggage or not this media circus creates there own so Berts arrival would just be another drop in a bottemless bucket.
I do this deal today if it exists so we can see Bert beat up on the Leafs Tuesday.
HFTO
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Post by HabSolute on Mar 3, 2006 8:54:49 GMT -5
The more I think about this, the more I would also do this deal in a minute..... - Can the Media here be worse than what Bertuzzi has been through in the past 2 years ? All he need to do is come here, say the right things to the fans, play a few great games, score goals and we will all love him for it (Well, most will...  - If it became a circus, I would bet that Gainey would come out and say something like he did with Brisebois, and we would all love him for it. - IMO, Souray will never be the guy he was during that 2 month period of fall 2003. I agree that Cote looked just as good if not better and is still at the bottom of the learning curv. - A few weeks ago, some were hoping to get Bert for Theo. Now if we can get him for Souray only ? Most agreed a few months ago that Souray wasn't worth much on the market. - The only thing I would do before I make this deal, is get a feel (somehow) of how the dressing room would react to this. If all the players hate his guts, than that might not be such a good idea. I'm not saying players should be consulted when we do a trade, but in this case, I would try to get the pulse, maybe by checking with the leaders of the team..... It's definitely worth the risk IMO |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 3, 2006 8:57:48 GMT -5
How that deal would hurt us cap wise would be my only concern. Although we desperately need help on the back end,with Souray having an off year and contributing little or no offense Cote could fill in without any drop off. Despite the baggage Bertuzzi like Doc said is something we've never had and would be a welcome addition. Baggage or not this media circus creates there own so Berts arrival would just be another drop in a bottemless bucket. I do this deal today if it exists so we can see Bert beat up on the Leafs Tuesday. HFTO Ah, the magic word in today's "New NHL" ... cap, cap, cap ... Two teams swapping baggage. I'd do it ... if it fits in the cap, cap, cap ... cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 3, 2006 9:07:17 GMT -5
How that deal would hurt us cap wise would be my only concern. habsRus resident capologist here. Bertuzzi makes 5.269 million, Souray 2.128 million. Thats a difference of 3.141 million. So to keep him next year, uncle George would have to raise our team payroll by 3 million, and we know the cap is increasing by around 6 million. The ball is in George's court for next year. This year. There are about 25 games left for most teams. That would equate to us having to have an extra $950,000 dollars to have Bertuzzi in a Habs uniform. While I am sure the Habs dop have the cap space, it would also mean any chance of shoring up other areas would have to be done with us trading guys with higher salaried than what we get in return. And how good of a defenseman can we get trading Zednik? |
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Post by Douper on Mar 3, 2006 9:45:29 GMT -5
Bertuzzi would help this team a ton compared to Souray ONLY if Bob makes another trade to get a defenseman.
If March 10th I wake up and we are minus Souray and let's say Zednik and we are up Bertuzzi and a #3 or 4 Dman I will be extatic!
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Post by duster on Mar 3, 2006 14:08:10 GMT -5
The arguments for this move are compelling...on paper. The reality is otherwise, imo. I've watched Bertuzzi play in most of his games so far. From what I've seen, I wouldn't even consider trading him for an improving Souray. As someone else mentioned, the Steve Moore incident has changed how he plays and altered his general attitude on and off the ice. The stats are not entirely indicative since Vancouver is a well balanced team with a formidable offense. Prior to his breakthrough season with Vancouver, he carried a reputation with the Islanders for being inconsistent and for bone headed plays, much to Mad Mike's chagrin. This is the Bertuzzi we saw at the Olympics. He would drive BG and Carbo nuts, not to mention HabsRus  I know a lot of Montreal fans crave a power forward to play with Koivu. From my observations, Bertuzzi is not him. Not at 5 million plus. One expensive problem child is enough. That kind of money would be better spent on a first rate defenseman or a quality second line centre my tuppence Edits: grammar |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Mar 3, 2006 14:29:47 GMT -5
A swapping of #44s?
Hmmm... the arguments on both sides of the fence are fairly persuasive.
Well, as Sam Pollock used to say... the team who gets the best player wins the trade and in this case, Bertuzzi is clearly a better player than Souray.
I like Sheldon and I like the pride he has in playing for the Montreal Canadiens, but I think that a chance to get someone like Bertuzzi shouldn't be passed up. Talent-wise, this swap would be a steal for the Habs.
The only concerns are cap room and the Montreal media circus that would follow Bertuzzi around.
Theo for Bertuzzi would be a better trade (because they make similar salaries) and this one's a tough call, but I think that I would still pull the trigger on a Bertuzzi/Souray swap.
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Post by jerry_dog on Mar 3, 2006 22:41:36 GMT -5
So let's give the Canucks BOTH Souray and Theodore and we get Bertuzzi and ... Bryan Allen a young, big, tough defenceman who can make a pass; after all, Vancouver is getting Ohlund (who I would really like to see in Mtl!) back early next week, Jovo starts skating on the weekend and Salo's likely back in 10 days to 2 weeks.
We also gain $1,364,812 in cap space according to published salaries, which saves $416K over the balance of the season.
This one I would do in as many heartbeats as it takes to sign it and fax it to the league office!
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Post by jkr on Mar 4, 2006 6:53:27 GMT -5
The arguments for this move are compelling...on paper. The reality is otherwise, imo. I've watched Bertuzzi play in most of his games so far. From what I've seen, I wouldn't even consider trading him for an improving Souray. As someone else mentioned, the Steve Moore incident has changed how he plays and altered his general attitude on and off the ice. The stats are not entirely indicative since Vancouver is a well balanced team with a formidable offense. Prior to his breakthrough season with Vancouver, he carried a reputation with the Islanders for being inconsistent and for bone headed plays, much to Mad Mike's chagrin. This is the Bertuzzi we saw at the Olympics. He would drive BG and Carbo nuts, not to mention HabsRus I know a lot of Montreal fans crave a power forward to play with Koivu. From my observations, Bertuzzi is not him. Not at 5 million plus. One expensive problem child is enough. That kind of money would be better spent on a first rate defenseman or a quality second line centre my tuppence Edits: grammar I agree. The Habs also don't have the depth on D to trade away Souray for a forward. There would have to be another D man coming back. The 3 million plus cap hit is huge. We can speculate but we have no idea what the cap will be next year. You are right. The extra cash should be spend on upgrading the D corps. And I really think people are underestimating the media circus this would create in Montreal. Hasn't it been bad enough this year? |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 4, 2006 11:54:43 GMT -5
I thought that it was a foregone conclusion that Bertuzzi is an idiot on skates. Why would we want him as a Hab? So to add to the Hab's soap opera? Or to add his macho presence in a fragile dressing room.
We need nibble warriors, not war galleons with broken rudders.
As for Souray, ever since he extracated his ex, he is playing much better. If we lose him, it should be for something better the Bert.
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Post by clear observer on Mar 5, 2006 17:01:07 GMT -5
I'd do this deal in a heartbeat...half a heartbeat...1/4 of a heartbeat...1/8 of a heartbeat...1/16 of a heartbeat...
CO
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Post by habmeister on Mar 5, 2006 17:30:04 GMT -5
why would you guys even consider a player that is extremely overpaid and brings a team down. He is lazy, not a team player, only passes to naslund and doesn't hit much anymore. It's all about getting value for your money, we've been down that road with bonk and theodore.
The ONLY way this deal makes sense is if, make that IF gainey and carbonneau KNOW they can turn him around. Bertuzzi doesn't like media pressure, interviews or generally anyone telling him to play. He would either cave in like a house of cards, or realize that there is nowhere to hide and that gainey and carbonneau are legends to learn from and flourish.
The question is what bertuzzi will we get?
I live in vancouver, so i see him play every single game, many in person (perks of being a broker) and he frustrates the @#$ out of me. I call him the "big country" of the canucks. For those of you that don't watch NBA we had a player named big country reeves who made about $10 million and earned about $3. There is no reason whatsoever to take a guy that is underperforming according to his salary. Having said all of this the upside is huge.
A lot of people say he isn't the same since the steve moore incident. He isn't in that he is afraid to hit really hard like he used to, but his offence is actually better this season than the season leading up to the moore hit.
In 2003-2004 he had 17 goals, 60 points and was a PLUS 21 in 69 games.
In 2005-2006 he has 21 goals, 55 points and is a MINUS 11 in 62 games.
Basically a slightly better pace in goals, but his plus minus has a 32 swing, yes that is important and it shows that he NEVER crosses his own blue line.
Compare those to 2002-2003 he had 46 goals, 97 points, PLUS 2 in 82 games.
Although could he breakout with the habs like leclair did with the flyers. I think not, he's collecting his paycheck, he will probably have a good year in his contract year which is next season.
The only reason i don't want bertuzzi is because his attitude is not condusive to a team environment. The habs are looking like more of a team than i've seen in years. I know we all want to see trades just because they add excitement, but the way the habs are playing the last thing we need is a forward who could disrupt the chemistry.
I think gainey will be looking for a good stay at home defenceman, or maybe a rental defenceman, other than that we will stand pat.
Furthermore, the canucks badly need the same thing we do, nhl ready defencemen, i don't see us even talking to them.
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Post by clear observer on Mar 5, 2006 21:14:13 GMT -5
I know we all want to see trades just because they add excitement...furthermore, the canucks badly need the same thing we do, nhl ready defencemen, i don't see us even talking to them. I want to see this deal done because we win it BIG TIME in my opinion, which of course, does in fact excite me. As well, we could always turn-around and deal Bertuzzi in the same manner the Canucks did; for a defenceman. CO |
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Post by franko on Mar 5, 2006 21:48:15 GMT -5
According to the Camden Courier-Post, the Flyers are trying to obtain RW Todd Bertuzzi from Vancouver for goalie Robert Esche and possibly Donald Brashear. sportsline.com |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2006 21:56:05 GMT -5
Canucks GM verified ages ago that he has not been scouting Souray.
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