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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 20, 2002 19:40:33 GMT -5
Since the HABS have been doing well as a team, Zed, Juneau, Koivu and Markov were all the targets of dirty plays and intent to injure... Obviously the refs have absolutely no influence on what the Thornton, Barnaby, Marchment, Tucker of this world do. We need to take care of our own.
I remember a few years ago, in a playoffs round, Barnaby was up to his old tricks against us... Igor Ulanov caught him with an open ice hit that knocked him out. Barnaby became invisible for the rest of the round.
We need a few guys that can do what Ulanov did. Not goons like Blouin, Odjick or O'dette that fights the other team goons, but a dirtyish player that will gladly sends a message.
Ian Laperriere would be great up front and on D, I wonder if the HABS could get either Gauthier outa Calgary or McLaren from Boston....
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 20, 2002 19:50:48 GMT -5
I'd love to get Gauthier here.
I totally agree with you. We need someone who is gonna dish out pain and punishment and someone who will defend our skilled players.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 20, 2002 20:03:04 GMT -5
This character and toughness thing seems to come full circle every so often. And why not? We still haven't properly addressed it yet. Igor Ulanov would also be a favourite in the dressingroom, Doc. I think he's probably lost a step, but he'd stick his nose in anywhere, anytime. He's in Florida right now. What Ulanov also gave us though was a measure of respect. Opposing "stars" knew when Ulanov was on the ice. They also kept their heads up when crossing the blueline as well. He's still only 33-years-old. There's pros and cons about bringing him in. Pros; he's a headhunter. Lindros, Lemieux, Modano, et al, would know when this guy is on the ice. Con; he's a headhunter. Be sure you understand why you're sending him out, because when he's assessed his first 5-minute-major it's too late to go, "huh?" Pro; he's a character guy that will bring toughness to the blueline. Heck, he might even bring Stephane Quintal around, who knows. Con; he's lost a step. He might be a good stay at home type of defenseman, but if he got caught pinching in, he'd better have an understanding partner. Pro; he's only 33. Con; we'll have to waive one of our existing defenseman (did I say that was a con? my mistake) plus he'd only be good in the short-term. We don't need another veteran clogging up our youth development. I was also in the chat last night with some guy called "Marc" and then a western lad by the name of "Habernac" joined us. One name came up; Reid Simpson. Reid wasn't the most talented forward to have laced up skates, but he brought character to the table. What did we discuss, guys? Where's Simpson when we can afford to ice Blouin? I guess he's with the Predators, but we could sure use him right now. He's only one guy though. I would've like to have landed Chris Simon a few months back. I'd also like to land Georges Larocque but the Oilers are flying right now and Georges is a major contributor in the character department. I know Peter Worrell can't skate well but he'd also get the job done. Heck, he ended his junior days in Hull of the QMJHL so I think people might still remember him. Wishful thinking I guess. But, yes, character and respect would be nice. Gilmour started out that way, but generally we've been looking for that go-to guy. I wonder if Sergeant Lamb woud be interested Cheers.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 20, 2002 20:05:32 GMT -5
I never mentionned Reid Simpson I don't want Ulanov though. He wouldn't improve our D that much and his physical game has declined in the past few seasons. We need to find some long term solutions to the problem. Maybe Ward? hopefully Komisarek and others. Like I said Gauthier would be a great fit.
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 20, 2002 20:27:58 GMT -5
A better question might be why does the league not do anything to protect Montreal?
* Thorton gives a blatant spear to Markov, yet the league only punishes him with a symbolic fine, saying Markov dove. So if he dove, why give the fine at all? No penalty.
* Chara slices open Markov's face with a blatant high stick, behind the play. No suspension or fine, even though that type of penalty usually warrants at least a 5 and a possible suspension. No penalty.
* Barnaby runs Juneau, elbows him in the head (with both elbows nonetheless) and despite a sworn promise to crack down on shots to the noggin, the league doesn't appear to be on the verge of suspending Barnaby either. Again, no penalty.
Andre Savard and Michel Therrien have whined a little (or a lot) to the press and the league, going all the way back to the Boston series last year. Are we seeing a little bit of the Pat Quinn/Toronto Maple Leafs syndrome, where the team has whined so much, nobody listens anymore?
I find it strange that three blatant, dangerous, and dirty plays within the last week have not only been ignored by the on-ice officials, but by the league as well. What kind of reputation do we have?
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Post by Ged on Dec 20, 2002 21:41:36 GMT -5
Thats odd. It's like you were reading my mind. Last night I was watching the Anaheim-L.A. game, and I was thinking Lapperiere is the type of guy I'd like playing for the Habs. He's generally all over the place and provides excellent grit as well as leadership I suspect. And he's been known to throw the odd open ice hit. Just ask Brian Savage. As an aside this was an outstanding game. Extremely hard checking, passion, plays and goals. Just like what hockey used to be like. As for Gauthier, same thing. He's also known for devastating open ice hits. Good strong defenceman that would look great with the Habs. One thing about having a guy that can throw checks like that, is that the opponent always has to keep his head up, and is more prone to getting rid of the puck quicker, and making mistakes, once he hears the footsteps. The Chara play on Markov was just plain ugly. It instantly reminded me of Hossa and Berard a few years back. I don't think Chara intended anything like that (who would?) as I don't think he was even looking at Markov. Probably just trying to swipe his stick out of action. But, ultimately every player has to be responsible for his stick. A few inches lower and I'm afraid Markov's career could very, very, easily have been finished. A stick blade and an eyeball just don't mesh very well, and there is only one loser. The league should have taken a real serious look at that one.
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Post by 24andcounting on Dec 21, 2002 10:55:37 GMT -5
You're bang on Doc, bang on. Not a goon, but an agitator...I would love to see any of the guys mentioned in this thread in a Habs uniform. The other night I watched Hackett get bowled over by Marleau...and Brisebois just kind of looked at him. Beautiful rendition of his cowardice during the playoffs last year, absolutely mimicked to a tee.
I don't think Marleau is necessarily known as an agitator but it looks like angels turn devils when playing against the smallish Habs. Teams who play the Habs know they're going to be able to skate freely and without policing. Must be a field day for guys like Tucker, Barnaby and Kasper.
I miss Ulanov. I remember when Worrell was playing a particularily vicious game against the Habs, Igor came over with a flying elbow that knocked him down. It was payback, and it sent a message.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 21, 2002 11:05:06 GMT -5
I agree. We desperately need that kind of violent, unpredictable force of nature on skates that makes opposing players think twice....
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Post by legaspesien on Dec 21, 2002 11:40:38 GMT -5
A good trading part could become the sharks they have a couple of those rough D the 1st that come to mind is Marchment...San Jose could be one of the west team desparate for a quality goaltender if theirs don't wake up...
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Post by Viper on Dec 21, 2002 12:05:16 GMT -5
Con; he's a headhunter. Be sure you understand why you're sending him out, because when he's assessed his first 5-minute-major it's too late to go, "huh?" ;D laughing uncontrollably here. ;D I can just picture MT on the bench right at this instance saying "HUH"
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 21, 2002 12:18:44 GMT -5
A good trading part could become the sharks they have a couple of those rough D the 1st that come to mind is Marchment...San Jose could be one of the west team desparate for a quality goaltender if theirs don't wake up... Marchment is one dirty SOB...but I doubt the Sharks will deal him since they only had 5 NHL caliber d-man when they faced us
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 21, 2002 13:12:40 GMT -5
Did I ever mention I wanted a "Uber" something or other?
Savard gets the Blouin and to what effect? Blouin has to be play and hurt someone so players are afraid of him. He is useless up in the press box.
When Koivu gets smashed and his knees go yet one more time or if Zednik gets his next and final concussion then the Hab's will whine. But to no avail.
You need nuclear deterrents in order to keep the other side in check. This is yet another reason why I think Savard is not building an "all around" team. What good is our down low play if the guys can get slaughtered without repercussions?
Besides, do you think that the NHL will not do anything if they know Savard is going to release his career ending "weapons"? They will take the Hab's a LOT more seriously. Unless of course Savard thinks his whining is going to scare them.
Keep in mind, it does not take much to “accidentally” put someone in the hospital or even end someone’s career. Just someone who is willing to do it.
Did I ever mention my “jungle” philosophy? You hurt my guy, I end your guys career. It’s brutal but it is effective.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 21, 2002 15:36:29 GMT -5
It's just a question of will. The guys just can't take the approach that "the refs wouldn't let us go". Next shift, next period, you line up Thornton and do him, even if it involves an elbow or a high stick. The guy took a swing at your captain, who happens to be half his size. He has to go down. End of story.
Same with Brisebois last year. He's got to crosscheck Mclaren in the face.
I don't see why this is considered so complicated by some of our players. Maybe we need new players.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 21, 2002 16:01:48 GMT -5
Actually I have to agree with you JV. If someone takes liberties with our captain or best players even, a message has to be sent that this just won't be permitted to happen.
Gino Odjick might have had his faults (who doesn't) but he was all over an opponent like a wet towel if that guy suckered one of our players. And when he wanted to, Odjick could be an effective part of a line; the trio of Bill Lindsay, Van Allen and Odjick played extremely well last year, given the little amount of ice time they had.
There's been exceptions this year for sure but they've been really few and far between. I saw Bill Lindsay duke it out and Blouin was in there as well. But, there's no consistentcy. We just don't have that one player that makes opposing players aware of his presence.
I remember Craig Rivet making a name for himself when he was just starting out. With the likes of Ulanov, Quintal, Cullimore, Tucker (the then-punching bag) Corson, Ryan (the same Terry that is), Chris Murray, Turner Stevenson, Scott Thorton, he knew what he had to do to make the club. I guess his wrist/arm injury might be nagging him, but as Doc pointed out a little while ago, how long can he continue to use this excuse? It's hard to know why he isn't fighting any longer, but when he was on his physical game he was good.
I really wanted Savard to land Mike Peca, but the price was too steep. One thing is for sure, Peca would never let this happen on his club. And, I know we don't have room for him, but hey, Ulanov would raise a few heads if only in the short-term. But, then we might regress again by bringing him in. Depends on what we need I guess.
Oh well. Cheers.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 21, 2002 16:08:31 GMT -5
It doesn't matter who the goon is...the problem won't be solved until a physical core player emerges. A guy who plays 20 minutes per game.
A goon only plays 2-3 minutes per game. Almost every team has one. What this team needs, like Dis said, is a Peca type, a Hatcher type, a Stevens type,etc...
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Post by KR on Dec 21, 2002 18:34:49 GMT -5
Igor Ulanov could be obtained for a song. A low pick or future considerations ahould be enough. He's be an upgrade over Dykhuis and he'd have the opposing forwards looking over their shoulders.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 21, 2002 19:01:02 GMT -5
Plus Ulanov could play 15 to 20 minutes a game I figure. He wouldn't be the player who would shake everyone up, but he'd earn us a measure of respect.
Remember what Mark Hardy's check on Mike Keane did for the Kings back in '93? His hit was all his team needed to come back from a 3-0 deficit. Lucky we had Big John though.
Ulanov is capable of the same IMHO. Is he an upgrade over Traverse or Dykhuis. Yes, right now he is.
Cheers.
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