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Post by CentreHice on Jan 17, 2007 22:46:38 GMT -5
Courtesy of a poster on hf boards:
This is the rumour I just heard on NHL on TSN(Bob Mackenzie),
To Montreal:
D - Adrian Aucoin
To Chicago:
LW - Sergei Samsonov
D - Craig Rivet
Mackenzie said that basically it would be like trading one problem + for another problem. He said it would help us out with Souray and Markov offseason situation, as Aucoin has 2 years left after this one at 4mil per.
Apparently, Aucoin has been scratched lately. He was on some posters' wish lists here a while back.
Thoughts?
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Post by Cranky on Jan 17, 2007 23:05:28 GMT -5
Not likely.
Aucoin would set the overpaid bottom limit. What would Sourays/Markov agents want if a failing defensman makes 4 million in a Hab's sweater? ?
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Post by ropoflu on Jan 17, 2007 23:08:13 GMT -5
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 17, 2007 23:13:36 GMT -5
Not highly recommended, apparently.  That's some of the worst bashing I've ever read. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 23:14:54 GMT -5
Perhaps another move would shortly follow this one, HA. Aucoin is pretty much a Souray clone: a wicked PP shot, but pretty sluggish in his own end. An upgrade on Rivet? Definitely. Aucoin's game may change being moved to a new city. It's a good deal, and a fair one to boot. If Aucoin doesn't work out, then what have we lost? Samsonov and Rivet. Essentially, nothing. EDIT: If Aucoin does come to Montreal, what will his jersey number be? 33?  |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 17, 2007 23:48:55 GMT -5
His last year in Vancouver, he was a very solid defenseman. His 'demise' might be a case of cashing in at the right time when he was a UFA. The expectations and demands are suddenly higher than they were when he was a #3-4 guy in Vancouver. He has a terrific shot and used to move the puck well. I don't think we're getting enough in that deal. While I don't mind moving Rivet and Samsonov, we can get more than just Aucoin. Of course, Rivet is a UFA and Aucoin may have a few years left on an inflated contract. How to factor in the CAP implications?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 17, 2007 23:52:32 GMT -5
Not highly recommended, apparently. That's some of the worst bashing I've ever read. To add perspective, many HF board posters are not known for their hockey debating skills. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 18, 2007 0:27:09 GMT -5
Not highly recommended, apparently. That's some of the worst bashing I've ever read. To add perspective, many HF board posters are not known for their hockey debating skills. Oh, I know...that's why I put the laughing smiley on the end. And by, "worst bashing" I meant that the bashing isn't based on anything. It's basically just insults you'd hear on a schoolyard. |
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Post by Forum Ghost on Jan 18, 2007 0:53:20 GMT -5
Not the best move, but I sort of like it anyway.
I'm probably biased because I've been a big fan of Aucoin for a while.
One thing that getting Aucoin would do is help out our PP. Lately teams are focusing in on Souray and it's limiting our PP's effectiveness.
If the Habs were to get Aucoin I would use him and Souray on the points. If teams want to take Souray's shot away then the Habs can simply feed it to Aucoin. For those who don't know, Aucoin's got quite the howitzer as well.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Jan 18, 2007 0:54:40 GMT -5
Btw, did McKenzie mention this as his suggestion or is this a rumour that has some truth to it?
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Post by Cranky on Jan 18, 2007 2:56:47 GMT -5
Perhaps another move would shortly follow this one, HA. Aucoin is pretty much a Souray clone: a wicked PP shot, but pretty sluggish in his own end. An upgrade on Rivet? Definitely. Aucoin's game may change being moved to a new city. It's a good deal, and a fair one to boot. If Aucoin doesn't work out, then what have we lost? Samsonov and Rivet. Essentially, nothing. EDIT: If Aucoin does come to Montreal, what will his jersey number be? 33? Samsy for Coins. That's it. Move Rivet for a draft choice. We may think he's junk but I bet there are a dozen teams where he will be top four. |
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Post by blny on Jan 18, 2007 7:23:01 GMT -5
"Augroin"? Ouch!
I am unaware of Adrian's affect on a locker room. I've never heard of him to be a cancer. Perhaps it's just sour grapes from Hawks fans. Perhaps Adrian regains some form in a new city where he wouldn't necessarily be the focus.
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Post by ropoflu on Jan 18, 2007 7:26:43 GMT -5
Not highly recommended, apparently. That's some of the worst bashing I've ever read. To add perspective, many HF board posters are not known for their hockey debating skills. To add perspective, the linked forum isn't a HF one, it's the Blackhawk's official one, so most probably low-fi bashers, but fans who actually follow the team and get to see Aucoin more than once or twice a year. That's why I thought it was relevant, not because it was a well written debate.  |
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Post by jkr on Jan 18, 2007 8:28:02 GMT -5
Perhaps another move would shortly follow this one, HA. Aucoin is pretty much a Souray clone: a wicked PP shot, but pretty sluggish in his own end. An upgrade on Rivet? Definitely. Aucoin's game may change being moved to a new city. It's a good deal, and a fair one to boot. If Aucoin doesn't work out, then what have we lost? Samsonov and Rivet. Essentially, nothing. EDIT: If Aucoin does come to Montreal, what will his jersey number be? 33? Samsy for Coins. That's it. Move Rivet for a draft choice. We may think he's junk but I bet there are a dozen teams where he will be top four. You're right. Not enough is coming back Montreal's way, especially if they are being asked to take on a 33 year old with 2 years left at 4 million per. The deal should include a pick ( 2nd or 3rd) along with Aucoin. I'd be concerned about this for another reason. It's been documented here that Gainey picked up Niinimaa based on his play with Edmonton rather than his recent performances. If they do this deal are they getting the Vancouver Aucoin, or are they getting the overpaid Chicago Aucoin that may be coming with a nagging injury? |
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Post by jkr on Jan 18, 2007 8:29:22 GMT -5
Btw, did McKenzie mention this as his suggestion or is this a rumour that has some truth to it? I didn't hear it either but McKenzie doesn't usually deal in rumors so this may have some substance. |
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Post by franko on Jan 18, 2007 9:48:06 GMT -5
Two-way addition by subtraction.
Everybody loses.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 18, 2007 9:49:10 GMT -5
Btw, did McKenzie mention this as his suggestion or is this a rumour that has some truth to it? I didn't hear it either but McKenzie doesn't usually deal in rumors so this may have some substance. I get that impression too, jkr. The earliest I remember MacKenzie calling a trade was when the Habs got Malakhov and Turgeon from the Islanders for Muller and Schneider. He said something like, "... there's a dealing going down between the Islanders and Canadiens that shouldn't be a surprise if it does. It's been in the works for some time now ..." A paraphrase at best though. Well, it may not have been a surprise the meida, but it was to we amateur fans. Cheers. |
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Post by franko on Jan 18, 2007 9:53:11 GMT -5
Read the link -- wow! We weren't as hard on Breezy/Theo/Sammy combined as these guys are on Aucoin.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 10:01:09 GMT -5
Samsy for Coins. That's it. Move Rivet for a draft choice. We may think he's junk but I bet there are a dozen teams where he will be top four. I don't think I agree to that. Rivet is at best a #5 or #6. I don't see what Chicago will gain by having Rivet considering they have players like Seabrook, Barker and Keith in the wings. Perhaps Rivet can provide some leadership and won't be a distraction in the dressing room like Aucoin apparently is, but other than that, his on-ice performance leaves a lot to be desired. EDIT: If you don't think that Chicago is giving up enough for the deal, ask them to eat up a remainder of Aucoin's salary; possibly 25-40% of it. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 18, 2007 10:27:36 GMT -5
Perhaps another move would shortly follow this one, HA. Aucoin is pretty much a Souray clone: a wicked PP shot, but pretty sluggish in his own end. An upgrade on Rivet? Definitely. Aucoin's game may change being moved to a new city. It's a good deal, and a fair one to boot. If Aucoin doesn't work out, then what have we lost? Samsonov and Rivet. Essentially, nothing. EDIT: If Aucoin does come to Montreal, what will his jersey number be? 33? Samsy for Coins. That's it. Move Rivet for a draft choice. We may think he's junk but I bet there are a dozen teams where he will be top four. I don't know guys. What's the aim of Montreal making this trade? Is it about moving Aucoin into the lineup or is more about moving Samsonov and his salary to club that doesn't have the same pressures on it as Montreal does? Aucoin might be 33 years old and have 2 years left on his contract. But, he's a right-handed defenceman who I hear isn't all that bad a passer. As far as that skill goes we only have Mark Streit and he's been moved to the fourth line for whatever the reason. But, why would Chicago want Samsonov? Maybe all he needs is to be taken out of the pressure cooker and paired up with a guy like Havlat. Maybe this is what Chicago management might be thinking. But, if Gainey really wants to move Samsonov, maybe he has to sweeten the pot. Adding Rivet would do that. I've been critical of Rivet in the past but always appreciated what he brought to the club. I remember many moons ago BC pointing out how good a mentor Rivet was to Markov. I remember the two of them always talking to each other both on the ice and on the bench. And given his team-first approach to business, I don't think there's a club out there that won't acknowledge that ... including Chicago. However, Gainey might also be thinking that Rivet will forever be a 4/5/6 defenceman. He's certainly playing like it now for whatever the reason. As much as I would hate to see Rivet leave this way, I have a feeling that he may end up leaving anyway in the off-season. Not because he doesn't want to stay; heck, he would love to retire a Hab, but because isn't part of Gainey's vision for the club. If this trade does go down it we'll have to try to understand why. Samsonov may have to be moved at all costs. And if it costs Craig Rivet ... Cheers. |
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Post by Polarice on Jan 18, 2007 14:20:24 GMT -5
The only positive I can think of with acquiring Aucoin, is that it would free up Souray on the PP. It would be difficult to cover those two big shots.
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Post by blny on Jan 18, 2007 14:40:16 GMT -5
I just don't see the need the more I think of it. Even if Sheldon has told the club privately that he won't be back, I still don't do this deal.
We trade a guy that at this point has no rep for being bad in the room, and nothing has been said to dispute that. We trade a UFA defenceman, and core guy. All for someone getting nothing but bad press and bad play for the last two years (in a Hawks uniform).
In reality, I think we need more Komisareks. We need more stay at home, sure footed, calm and collected, veterans that can lead us out of our end. Is Aucoin really that guy? I'm not so sure, and for $4 million per you should be. I think we can find the player(s) we need for a lot cheaper.
We also don't address our major need in this trade. If it were a three-way deal, and Aucoin was being flipped for that centre we need, ok. There's no indication that is the case. This team doesn't need an underachieving $4 million blueliner.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 18, 2007 17:29:12 GMT -5
We have defensemen that can skate, carry the puck, score the odd goal and occasionally play forward.
If we add another defenseman, make sure he can play defense. That would be a pleasant change.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 18, 2007 17:33:14 GMT -5
Perhaps another move would shortly follow this one, HA. Aucoin is pretty much a Souray clone: a wicked PP shot, but pretty sluggish in his own end. An upgrade on Rivet? Definitely. Aucoin's game may change being moved to a new city. It's a good deal, and a fair one to boot. If Aucoin doesn't work out, then what have we lost? Samsonov and Rivet. Essentially, nothing. EDIT: If Aucoin does come to Montreal, what will his jersey number be? 33? Samsy for Coins. That's it. Move Rivet for a draft choice. We may think he's junk but I bet there are a dozen teams where he will be top four. One mans junk is another mans treasure at a yard sale. Why buy a 33 year old B&W tv when you can get a newer better cheaper one in the WalMart in Hamilton. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 18, 2007 19:11:58 GMT -5
Wasn't Aucoin a healthy scratch just last week for Chicago because he hasn't done a thing all year?
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 19, 2007 8:35:15 GMT -5
Aucoin would become an instant scapegoat here. No Physical play, sloppy defense and highly paid. If you think Souray is bad on D, you got another thing coming with this guy. I've always said that he's a slower version of Brisebois.
I see no benefit on that trade, which scares me as highly possible.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 19, 2007 8:58:38 GMT -5
At this point I would swap Samsonov to St. Louis for Doug Weight. Both signed 2-year deals last year for $3.5M and although Weight is much older I think he's what we need on the second line - a pure centre, great passer, great vision to complement Kovalev. I'm not psyched about paying him $3.5M next year but we would have been stuck with Samsonov's contract anyway. From the Blues perspective, they desperately need to dump the veterans and get younger.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 19, 2007 13:16:30 GMT -5
At this point I would swap Samsonov to St. Louis for Doug Weight. Both signed 2-year deals last year for $3.5M and although Weight is much older I think he's what we need on the second line - a pure centre, great passer, great vision to complement Kovalev. I'm not psyched about paying him $3.5M next year but we would have been stuck with Samsonov's contract anyway. From the Blues perspective, they desperately need to dump the veterans and get younger. That might be do-able BH. I don't know who St. Louis would pair Samsonov with, but Weight might be an excellent pick up if only for the playoff run. He's a veteran and a winner and understands what it will take to go over the top. We were talking about Forsberg in another thread, but I wonder if St. Louis might be interested in a prospect for Wieght around deadline time. Hard to say how many teams would be looking for a veteran like him, BH. But, you never know. Cheers. |
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Post by HFTO on Jan 19, 2007 22:05:27 GMT -5
Good thought BH more than reasonable and Weight just may get pumped playing in a hockey city again and should compliment Kovalev.
As far as Aucoin goes if that happened you'd say good-bye to one of Markov or Souray and I rather take a run at keeping both rather than having one and Aucoin.
HFTO
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Post by legaspesien on Jan 20, 2007 11:37:55 GMT -5
TSN.CA: reported yesterday Chicago Blackhawks GM Dale Tallon denied a rumour he was in trade talks with the Montreal Canadiens. The site noted Habs blueliner Craig Rivet had been the subject of trade rumours recently, including one that would've sent him to Chicago for d-man Adrian Aucoin, but Tallon said he's had no talks with the Canadiens. "This all started because I was at the Montreal-Vancouver game this week en route to the Top Prospects Game (in Quebec City). It's amazing how rumours start", he told the Canadian Press.
Spector's Note: Yes, it is amazing how rumours start, especially ones that make absolutely no freakin' sense! Any die-hard Habs fan will tell you the Canadiens need a second-line scoring centre, not an overpaid, injury-plagued, aging defenseman like Aucoin
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