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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 8:23:27 GMT -5
The decline of our beloved franchise, which was already well underway before, took another step forward(or back). Facing the powerful Detroit Red Wings, our Habs got shelled and thanks to a moron of a head coach who left the star goalie in goal for way too many goals, the star goalie, who won us 2 cups on his own, got pissed and days later left town in one of the worst deals in franchise history.
And the Habs have never been the same since.
7 years ago today, the Detroit Red Wings blasted Patrick Roy and the Canadiens if you had't figured it out yet.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Douper on Dec 2, 2002 9:41:59 GMT -5
Probably the worse week in team history.
Thanks Buzz cut twins for the worse days of the team and the decline of our team.
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 13:47:24 GMT -5
it's taken some time, but at least now there's a light at the end of the tunnel. we have some good prospects, and a good core group of players, a gm that knows how to be a gm, and a coach....a coach....ummmmm...that was a nice suit he wore on saturday. ;D
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Post by Viper on Dec 2, 2002 13:59:47 GMT -5
your to kind to MT and insulting to the other coaches in the league Darz
Your one mean S.O.B. Marc bringing that up ;D like we need to be reminded of that stuff I just got out of rehab for goodness sakes. Now i'm all the way back to step one admitting he's gone.
i do have a thought though FIRE THERRIEN AND GREEN.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 14:01:02 GMT -5
sorry viper but it's part of history if only we would have pulled the trigger earlier and received Nolan in return...*sigh*
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 14:13:29 GMT -5
sorry viper but it's part of history if only we would have pulled the trigger earlier and received Nolan in return...*sigh* but then we would have never received kovalanko, who turned into thornton, who turned into JUHA LIND. imagine if the habs never had JUHA LIND!!!!!
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 14:23:43 GMT -5
or we wouldn't have had Rucinsky who turned into Eric Daz..oops Reggie didn't pull the trigger on that one
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Post by PTH on Dec 2, 2002 16:39:32 GMT -5
sorry viper but it's part of history if only we would have pulled the trigger earlier and received Nolan in return...*sigh* Do that, and we get Fiset instead of Thibault - Fiset being, well, bad, this means that Théodore is rushed and his development screwed up, and he very possibly never becomes a #1 goalie. And Nolan, after a couple of injury-plagued seasons, is traded away anyhow. If you really want this deal to work for us, it had be the Deadmarsh-Rucinsky-Thibault one, that Adam got out of claiming he wouldn't play in Canada. I'd trade for him anyhow and then let him sit or deal him again. Or I'd get Foote subbed in for Deadmarsh. Trading a superstar is a losing proposition asset-wise in almost every case. As to Lind.... yeah he sucked, but Thornton was a 4th liner UFA to be, what more could you expect ?
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Post by HabBoy on Dec 2, 2002 16:50:04 GMT -5
Truly a DARK DAY in Hab history.....
ranking right up there with...
The Death Of Vezina
The Death Of Morenz
L'Affaire Richard (The Riot)
Correy's 1995 Housecleaning
Any others that should be on the list?
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 17:02:05 GMT -5
Do that, and we get Fiset instead of Thibault - Fiset being, well, bad, this means that Théodore is rushed and his development screwed up, and he very possibly never becomes a #1 goalie. And Nolan, after a couple of injury-plagued seasons, is traded away anyhow. If you really want this deal to work for us, it had be the Deadmarsh-Rucinsky-Thibault one, that Adam got out of claiming he wouldn't play in Canada. I'd trade for him anyhow and then let him sit or deal him again. Or I'd get Foote subbed in for Deadmarsh. Trading a superstar is a losing proposition asset-wise in almost every case. But wasn't Fiset, hackum, viewed as a potentially good goalie back then? who knows maybe he unlocks his potential here?
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Post by HabBoy on Dec 2, 2002 17:03:38 GMT -5
Fiset was crap when we got him last year
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 2, 2002 17:06:43 GMT -5
Truly a DARK DAY in Hab history..... ranking right up there with... The Death Of Vezina The Death Of Morenz L'Affaire Richard (The Riot) Correy's 1995 Housecleaning Any others that should be on the list? The 6-1 loss to the Leafs 2 years ago on that Saturday night...ouch.
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 2, 2002 17:18:23 GMT -5
how 7 years goes by so fast... can't say Roy leaving was the worst thing ever though, although it made for a few bad years. if he was still here Theo wouldn't have become what he is now (minus his slump which i believe is over), or he would have had his success somewhere else, a few years down the road roy'll be gone and hopefully theo's start to the 02-03 season will be shadowed by another vezina or two and a stanley cup ring.
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Post by HFTO on Dec 2, 2002 18:57:24 GMT -5
T-_BO was far from ready at the time also,but who really could replace Patrick anyways. Thae Habs needed to get a stud forward out of that deal a la Deadmarsh. HFTO
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 2, 2002 20:49:01 GMT -5
Well, hindsight is always 20-20, but we also tend to do a little revisionist history when looking at that deal as well.
After Roy announced he wasn't going to play anymore, there were lots of analysis going around, speculating on where he was going to be traded. The general consensus was Montreal needed a young goalie to come back, along with a couple of bluechippers who were already in the NHL, and that Roy needed to be traded to a team that needed an elite goalie, and who had a young goalie to spare, a goalie who they didn't think was going to lead them to the Cup. Teams like the expansion clubs were out of the bidding, as were the teams that already had an established, very good goalie (like Dallas, for example). It basically came down to Detroit or Colorado. Detroit had Osgood, Colorado had Thibault. Both were considered young, up-and-coming goaltenders, ready to take the next step. Like, Theodore of a couple of years ago, or perhaps a Blackburn or maybe even a Luongo.
So we got a young #1, and two young, potential 30 goal scorers. Rucinsky had 29 and 28 goals his first two seasons in Montreal (as a 24 year old) and Kovalenko had 28 as 25 year old. He actually scored 32 the next season. While we shouldn't have traded Roy, the return would have been good were it not for the fact that we threw in Mike Keane as well. Thibault, Rucinsky and Kovalenko were decent gambles for Roy alone, but throwing in the captain of the team was just wrong...
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 2, 2002 21:18:20 GMT -5
Add to the fact, BC, that Keane was the player they had asked for by name, and it makes the deal a steal for the Avs.
I still remember Keane addressing the media after learning he had been traded. He was in tears while trying to find the appropriate words.
Kovolenko didn't play all that badly and the fans knew him from his affiliation with Quebec. But Rucinsky and Damphousse were probably the hottest one-two tandem in the league at one point. It didn't matter what lucky player ended up playing with them, that player wasn't really needed to tell you the truth.
While Thibeault couldn't find his game in the pressure cooker, he did in Chicago. So much in fact, he haunted le club by posting back-to-back shutouts in his first two games against them. Where have you heard that tune before?
That trade took away a lot of our team's personality. Mike Keane was a strong, character player, while Roy was an icon. On the other side, the Avs road to the Cup became that much easier when they acquired two of our top players. I'd say it put them over the top actually.
By the way, do you like Stevie Windwood? Good choice.
Cheers.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 2, 2002 21:25:08 GMT -5
Did you guys forget about the clique that Keane, Roy and a few others had formed? It was not above Roy to critisize ANY defensman who did not play up to the "Masters" liking.
I think part of the reason that Keane got traded was the clique aspect.
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 21:42:10 GMT -5
keane was on his way out long before the roy trade. remember the "i don't think a habs captain needs to know french" comment, to which i totally agreed. keane's value was high at the time of the roy trade, i believe keane alone could have landed us a pretty decent prospect or player.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 2, 2002 21:54:20 GMT -5
Did you guys forget about the clique that Keane, Roy and a few others had formed? It was not above Roy to critisize ANY defensman who did not play up to the "Masters" liking. I think part of the reason that Keane got traded was the clique aspect. Well, that opens up another door for sure, HA. It was actually Jacques Demers who placed Roy on a pedistal. He adamantly defended Roy to the media, when they were going to crucify him for some of the team's lacklustre performances. I thought that there would have had an adverse affect on team chemistry, but it was what Roy needed to get into gear. He stole his second Stanley Cup that year. You're right insomuch as Roy criticizing players, but he did it with coaches as well. I can't remember where I read it, but Roy chuckled over a Tremblay faux-pas at a press conference. I guess Tremblay mispronounced a few English words and Roy had a chuckle over it. Tremblay took exception to that and many believe this is why Roy was left to his fate with the Wings and the Montreal faithful. I don't know if it's true, but it was printed in a newspaper somewhere, I remember that. Emotional game, eh? Cheers.
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Post by PTH on Dec 2, 2002 21:56:06 GMT -5
keane was on his way out long before the roy trade. remember the "i don't think a habs captain needs to know french" comment, to which i totally agreed. keane's value was high at the time of the roy trade, i believe keane alone could have landed us a pretty decent prospect or player. The real killer was Keane basically saying he wasn't going to learn French..... the city can accept not speaking French if you are at least trying (remember Kirk Muller ? He worked hard and could do passable interviews), but someone not caring like Keane did is just as good a way of getting traded as going to the president of the team and saying you want out.
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Post by darz on Dec 2, 2002 22:00:41 GMT -5
The real killer was Keane basically saying he wasn't going to learn French..... the city can accept not speaking French if you are at least trying (remember Kirk Muller ? He worked hard and could do passable interviews), but someone not caring like Keane did is just as good a way of getting traded as going to the president of the team and saying you want out. after his comments, keane enrolled himself in a french class. i think a hockey player should worry about hockey, not about learning a new language, too much frickin politics!!!
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Post by PTH on Dec 2, 2002 22:10:44 GMT -5
It's not politics, it's common sense.
Keane started class since otherwise he was getting traded way faster.
For a guy who'd been around for a while, he should have thought that he should from the start make at least a cursory effort at learning French - ie, lie, rather than appear to be spitting on his fans.
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