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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 21:39:09 GMT -5
Big point but man did Brisebois screw up and someone should remind MT what a timeout is. There was no excuse not to call one and bring back the Koivu line.
Hackett played another great game as well. So did Markov and the checking line
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 30, 2002 21:42:39 GMT -5
Well, that game sucked.
The only reason the Hab's were even close in this one is because the Flyer's played like goofs. If it was not for Haclk the score would of been 5 something.
Hab's 3 stars
Hackett Hackett Hackett
Hab's 3 Nimrods Mckay Lindsay Ribiero
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 21:43:26 GMT -5
McKay? I thought he played a decent game
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Post by Disp on Nov 30, 2002 21:54:00 GMT -5
I thought Mckay played pretty good as well.
When Quintal is on the ice its like we're playing shorthanded. Its no wonder we get outshot all the time. Why this guy is still in the lineup and killing penalties to boot is beyond my comprehension.
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Post by Viper on Nov 30, 2002 21:58:18 GMT -5
HA i agree the flyer's didn't bring their A game but hackett was no better than chechmanek at the other end IMO.
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hopo
Rookie
Posts: 65
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Post by hopo on Nov 30, 2002 22:06:10 GMT -5
gentlemen this is serious. We have just lost to avery beatable flyers team, and are embarking on a lenthy and difficult road trip.the leafs are hot , ottawa is putting distance between us and them,and our boys are treading water. if the AS and Therrien want to salvage this season then there needs to be a shake-up. Something a little more significant than interchanging our fourth line centers. MAKE A TRADE, MAKE A DEMOTION, MAKE A PROMOTION DO SOMETHING .TEAMS ARE PASSING US ,AND ALL WE CAN DO IS DECIDE WHICH GOALIE IS GOING TO SAVE THE HABS THAT NIGHT. A SHAKEUP IS IN ORDER. NOW
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Post by TheHabsfan on Nov 30, 2002 22:27:36 GMT -5
This is definitely not the same flyers team we took on earlier in the year...they looked sloppy all game long. They were ripe for the pickin...maybe next time.
goaltending: Hackett was superbe, again! Everybody wants to see him traded. As for me, I have a feeling that we are going to miss him when he's gone. It's the same feeling I had when Mr. Planters traded Leclair.
Defense: For once, I don't have much to say about Traverse. With the exception of the 2 on 1 he created for the flyers, he was pretty solid. Rivet and Quintal didn't have a good night. Markov was his usual talented self and Brisebois...well, I suppose he couldn't go through an entire game without doing a bonehead play. Dykhuis....no comment.
Forwards: Koivu and Zed had another solid night...They have to do something with Audette...useless on the top line. I also found that Perreault had a bad night, he seemed to be floating out there tonight....no zip. Gilmour made some nice passes (did you see that back pass....wow) Petrov was invisible. The checking line was great again...too bad Bulis couldn't pot those two chances...but he is coming around...give him some time. And Finally, Ribero...I am still not sold on this guy. I still don't think he is ready for the Bigs....he lacks size, speed and consistency...of course, we could say the same about the entire team minus Hack, Koivu, Markov and Zed.
On a scale from 1 to 10:
Flyers: 4 Habs: 4
cheers, TheHabsfan
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Post by rocky on Nov 30, 2002 22:30:08 GMT -5
Actually the guy who ran roughshod all over us tonight, Keith Primeau, is apparently on the block. Now here's a poor-man's Joe Thornton if I ever saw one. I believe that Primeau would be a huge boost to our pp as he can't be moved from in front of the net. Been a long while since we have had a physical presence with skill.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Nov 30, 2002 22:30:28 GMT -5
Appologies to Mr Planters....I just remembered that it was the Senator's blunder.
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Post by HFTO on Nov 30, 2002 22:41:55 GMT -5
The habs should have addressed the situation long before this skid when thins were going well(if you want to say that)The weaknesses were blatantly obvious. AS should have done something a lot earlier this team is headed for disaster. HFTO
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Post by Ged on Nov 30, 2002 22:45:15 GMT -5
What was that poll about? Who is the Habs best defenceman? I've been watching plays like that for 10 years running. Breezy is good for at least one of those a game. Let's see. Who shoots better? Markov. Who passes better? Markov. Who is more physical? Markov. Defensive awareness? Markov. Offensive awareness? Markov. Skating? Markov.
Actually, on this team, Brisebois is one of the best defenceman. Now what does that say about our team?
Audette is completely, totally, and undeniably useless. Get Czerkawski back on the first line. There seemed to be some chemistry with Koivu and Zed.
Once again, just like last year when Markov was in the press box in favour of whoever, it looks like we are icing less than our best team. Why?
I think I've read this somewhere before. Fire Therrien. Savard has got to make a move, and I do mean yesterday.
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Post by habwest on Nov 30, 2002 22:51:49 GMT -5
How about talking retirement/buy out with Audette and possibly Gilmour? That would at least clear the decks to play Czerkawski on one of the top lines. I don't think that Audette's ever going to be near what he was even if he's busting a gut full time. He's said himself the arm is just 90% and will never get better and that 10% just may well be the determining difference on his shot, can't get it off quickly with enough snap anymore, which is everything with a scorer. As to Gilmour, he ought to be told the 4th line center job, barring injury, is his if he wants it but I can't really get very excited about him playing LW. Obviously neither can he. The biggest remaining advantage the guy has is his craftiness with the puck (which, by the way, I do enjoy watching) which is maximized at center and kind of wasted on the wing. Besides we need more size on the wing so I'd rather see Hossa in there. Or move Bulis in and put Hossa on Juneau's left (not a bad idea actually, could get him going). At least Hossa's got an up side. If Gilmour gives an enthusiastic effort as the 4th line center and MT rolls 4 lines this might work out reasonably well. But if Gilmour's not prepared to give 100% on the 4th line, pending an opportunity to move up depending on circumstances, then he should be off the team to make room for Ribs. Ribiero needs to play enough so we can make our minds up about this guy. And if after a good period of time he's not doing anything then Gratton ought to be given a shot. Of course a "big" trade solving many problems and pumping some talented young blood into the lineup would be nice to see but at least what I've outlined has the advantage of being entirely within the control of the Habs. Of course I very much doubt that AS would even consider this but I think that he ought to. It looks to me like Audette just ain't got it any more and Gilmour's not going to deliver much playing on the wing. Time to move on. But that's just my uninformed outsider's 2 cents. Might as well put it in. Maybe AS will pick up on it and I'll get a free night out at one of those taverns that HA keeps suggesting to him.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 22:52:14 GMT -5
Markov is our best d-man. No doubt about it.
Thank god for him, Koivu, Zednik and Bulis. Or else this team would be the most boring team to watch in the league.
Rocky, Primeau is an intriguing guy. He would look great as our number 2 center, but remember him leading the choke in the playoffs for the Flyers last year and doing what he did to Barber...
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Post by habwest on Nov 30, 2002 23:03:14 GMT -5
Yea, I remember. Moved him from my want list to my Leper list. All we need is a guy who wants to blame his problems on someone else- Barber- when he's not delivering on his big fat contract. Barber coaches the day his wife died, gives everything to his players, and then Primeau stabs him in the back in the media, even when it was already pretty clear that Barber was going to get fired anyway. Nothing more than a moral coward. No thanks.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 30, 2002 23:05:34 GMT -5
How about talking retirement/buy out with Audette and possibly Gilmour? That would at least clear the decks to play Czerkawski on one of the top lines. I don't think that Audette's ever going to be near what he was even if he's busting a gut full time. He's said himself the arm is just 90% and will never get better and that 10% just may well be the determining difference on his shot, can't get it off quickly with enough snap anymore, which is everything with a scorer. As to Gilmour, he ought to be told the 4th line center job, barring injury, is his if he wants it but I can't really get very excited about him playing LW. Obviously neither can he. The biggest remaining advantage the guy has is his craftiness with the puck (which, by the way, I do enjoy watching) which is maximized at center and kind of wasted on the wing. Besides we need more size on the wing so I'd rather see Hossa in there. Or move Bulis in and put Hossa on Juneau's left (not a bad idea actually, could get him going). At least Hossa's got an up side. If Gilmour gives an enthusiastic effort as the 4th line center and MT rolls 4 lines this might work out reasonably well. But if Gilmour's not prepared to give 100% on the 4th line, pending an opportunity to move up depending on circumstances, then he should be off the team to make room for Ribs. Ribiero needs to play enough so we can make our minds up about this guy. And if after a good period of time he's not doing anything then Gratton ought to be given a shot. Of course a "big" trade solving many problems and pumping some talented young blood into the lineup would be nice to see but at least what I've outlined has the advantage of being entirely within the control of the Habs. Of course I very much doubt that AS would even consider this but I think that he ought to. It looks to me like Audette just ain't got it any more and Gilmour's not going to deliver much playing on the wing. Time to move on. But that's just my uninformed outsider's 2 cents. Might as put it in. Maybe AS will pick up on it and I'll get a free night out at one of those taverns that HA keeps suggesting to him. HW, do you really want to exchange Tweedle Dee for Tweedle Dumb? Puting Gilmour on the forth line and bringing up Ribs solves what? A small center for another small center. Did you not see how the Flyers tossed around our midgets? Hell, they were not even politically correct about it. Do you have any idea what it cost to buy a guys out? Try 70% of his salary. Like 6 million for Audette. Audi is like a lead weight on Savard's neck. Every time Savard goes out to trade him, he sinks.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 23:06:56 GMT -5
We are stuck with Audette, saddly.
The guy doesn't deserve 10% of his fat paycheck.
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Post by Viper on Nov 30, 2002 23:23:44 GMT -5
HW, do you really want to exchange Tweedle Dee for Tweedle Dumb? Puting Gilmour on the forth line and bringing up Ribs solves what? A small center for another small center. Did you not see how the Flyers tossed around our midgets? Hell, they were not even politically correct about it. Do you have any idea what it cost to buy a guys out? Try 70% of his salary. Like 6 million for Audette. Audi is like a lead weight on Savard's neck. Every time Savard goes out to trade him, he sinks. \ If GG is serious about improving this team maybe that is the only option buying Audette out. throw in the bowl of spaghetti and the block of cheese and just get him outta here who cares how. same for Petrov and Gilmour just send them on their way watching petrov is maddening with his little rushes ending in nomans land while the opposition ends up on an odd man rush because he can't figure out where the puck went after shaking the stars away from his noggin. Is it sunday yet. i need to add to the Rant thread.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 23:44:56 GMT -5
in 18 minutes viper ;D
Funny how the stars of our playoff run are now the bums of the team..lol...last year Petrov, Gilmour, Audette and Quintal were all heros now we can't wait to get rid of them...lol
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Post by Vichab on Nov 30, 2002 23:48:54 GMT -5
My thoughts: I'm not happy with Brise but in the end he tried to force the play hopefully to get the goal and a point. The fact the Flyers got the extra point doesn't hurt us as we will not be fighting for a platoff spot with them. Yes it was a bone head play and Hack must be choked but in the end it's all the same if Hack saves it.
Markov - great
Saku and Zed - other teams always have to be on their toes.
Perreault - non existent. He's either on or he's not. When he's not he should see minimum ice time.
McKay - played a solid game. the sort i expected when we made the trade.
Ribs - absolutely hopeless. He should not be on the pp. I use to like him and maybe he's still rusty but he has been useless since his return and kills our pp. He should be sent down for a good haul.
Juneau - played great at both ends.
Bulis - perhaps our best player. his skating allows him to get all over the ice and get some great chances and check on D. When he gets some touch around the net - look out.
Aud - had some great chances but when all you can contribute is goals you have to bury those. the commentator said our first line has 2and a half players. I'm assuming Saku and Zed = 2. figure it out Donald.
I heard them say that Clark was looking to make a trade and Primeau may be the guy. We need someone with his size but I agree his attitude is a problem. also isn't he making huge coin. I can't see paying him that kind of money over Saku. I think we should focus on gratton as he's got the size and i think the Sabres mat be desparate to shake things up.
I know we're all upset with AS for not doing anything but everything i'm hearing is that he has been working the phone just not coming up with anything. He's had the luxury of waiting for the perfect deal as we have some how been winning. But that's changing and he will have to make a deal within 2 weeks even if it's not what he wants. i think we're all starting to think we would be happy just to get rid of some of these smurfs even if we don't get anything in return. i think i've reached that point now. Get rid of a few smurfs and if nothing in return then give the kids a chance.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 23:54:07 GMT -5
Perreault is the kind of player you can't win a cup with.
He has to be a top 2 line guy to be effective but cup winning teams need a better 2nd line center than him. He also dissapears in physical contests and only scores on home ice(I think he has 10 goals at home this year...it was the same thing last year)
Same thing can be said for Petrov. You can't expect to win the cup with guys like that on your 1st or 2nd line. And they are useless in a 3rd or 4th line role.
Pretty bad time to be a Habs fan right now. The team is close to being a good team because of the guys in their early/mid 20's doing everything they can, but the team overall is just so disorganized and baddly constructed they can't go on a roll because of it.
We have too many square pegs we are trying to fit into round holes.
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Post by Viper on Dec 1, 2002 0:04:47 GMT -5
in 18 minutes viper ;D Funny how the stars of our playoff run are now the bums of the team..lol...last year Petrov, Gilmour, Audette and Quintal were all heros now we can't wait to get rid of them...lol audette and gilmour maybe but the rest ....................... the real heroes from last year still are today ZEdnik Saku and Theo
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Post by habwest on Dec 1, 2002 0:45:43 GMT -5
Well HA.... Yes, I would love to have bigger as well as talented players. You may not remember (being a geezer...ahem) that I was one of the earliest on this board to campaign for a big center. It would be wonderful to have a trade that would answer this problem. But since teams aren't lining up at the moment to give us those players for hand me downs, especially what appears to be a permanently damaged one like Audette, I was simply suggesting something that was within our own power to accomplish. Yes indeed I would like to see AS acquire a big talented center or a big talented winger. But let's face it, AS isn't likely going to be able to pull this off (and I'm sure that he's trying), at least not until someone gets desparate for something they think we have and that isn't a key to the team's future (kind of narrows it down, huh) and that's likely going to take a while. I'd also like MT to be replaced by a good, proven NHL coach but I guess I have different views of some of the candidates muted about at present, ie I'm not too keen on them. I could be wrong on this tho and if AS were to come up with someone he thought could do it then I'd say go for it. So barring that and being realistic: 1) Czerkawski's healthy, Audette's damaged goods. He's never recovered from his injury enough to become the scorer that he was. 2) so what's the alternative for Audette if he doesn't improve dramatically? If he can't be traded (and I'm very skeptical that he can now) keep playing him wasting a roster spot, or risk sitting him and creating discontent, all the while paying him his full salary? Better to get rid of him and at least save 30% of his salary and open up a roster spot for someone who has a chance of being productive. Ergo... 3) put Czerk on the top line so we can at least benefit from those periodic hot streaks that he goes on. He also isn't a midget. 4) playing Gilmour at center maximizes your chances of getting some production from him. What I'm saying is that he's taking a spot on LW where he's neither happy nor productive. Plus he just adds to our size problem on the 2nd line. Put him at center on the 4th line (I doubt that he'd like this but why not try?) where there's at least a chance that he'll be moderately productive and a positive influence. He'd also likely be playing with bigger players so this would minimize his lightweight limitations, unlike now. If he doesn't want this then see if he can be traded and if not buy him out too. 5) that opens a LW spot for Hossa who does have size. Move Bulis up to Perreault's left and put Hossa on Juneua's left. It would be a great place for him to learn how to play in the NHL. Or at least put Kilger on Juneau's left. 6) Playing Ribs as the 4th line center if Gilmour won't do it is in my own mind a strictly stop gap measure. As I've said before we need a big talented center and Ribs obviously isn't the answer. (will you just get in line on this? ) Maybe he'll show enough to be traded for something. Gratton is another stop gap. Personally I would like to see Kilger given the job, grooming him to replace Juneau (over to you BC). He should at least be playing LW on the 4th line regularly. So a solution that: - would be doable right now (which everyone including yourself is baying about) as it doesn't involve any fairy tale deals with other teams. - would introduce some size onto the team, especially if both Hossa and Kilger played regularly. - would eliminate one, maybe two, non productive players and replace them with ones who have real productive potential (Czerk, Hossa). - would eliminate one, maybe two, sources of discontent while leaving the other players happier as they are playing. Sure, it may not be "the" solution, whatever that is, but at least it does something right now that I think would be productive for the reasons given and might settle the team down until that "big" move was able to be pulled off. Just because this is realatively modest (altho it would demand some guts by Savard, no doubt) doesn't mean that it's not worth trying especially as it might be well into the new year (even March) before some trade can be pulled off. It most certainly won't happen because: - of the embarassment factor for AS- could it cost him his job? - of the $ loss involved which the press will jump on. So you can relax and fuss on you ol' grumble puss.
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Post by montreal on Dec 1, 2002 1:09:40 GMT -5
\ If GG is serious about improving this team maybe that is the only option buying Audette out. throw in the bowl of spaghetti and the block of cheese and just get him outta here who cares how. same for Petrov and Gilmour just send them on their way watching petrov is maddening with his little rushes ending in nomans land while the opposition ends up on an odd man rush because he can't figure out where the puck went after shaking the stars away from his noggin. Is it sunday yet. i need to add to the Rant thread. No, thats not going to happen, no way would they throw away that kind of money. Audette is due to make 9M minus around 1M since we are a quarter of the way throught the season. To buy him out, you have to offer 60%, I believe, so that would be 5M or so (Im not going to figure it out, too lazy). If he would aleast get some goals, it wouldn't be so bad, but he's snake bit. 4 shots tonight and 1 was a decent shot, but once again nothing to show for it.
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Post by Viper on Dec 1, 2002 1:12:12 GMT -5
oh don't worry i am not expecting it too but as i said if he's gonna go that's probably the only way unless we eat 5 million worth of the contract anyway and who's gonna take the guy.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 1, 2002 1:46:47 GMT -5
I thought Mckay played pretty good as well. When Quintal is on the ice its like we're playing shorthanded. That's because we are.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 1, 2002 2:05:12 GMT -5
Old man, why do you remind me of Luke (Paul Newman) in the movie Cool Hand Luke? Just as I was wondering where you are, you shake the bushes and yelp, “I’m here boss, just doing my business but I’m here boss”.
Well HW, what we have here is a failure to communicate. There is no way Andre will waltz down the aisle, go up to George and declare, “I’s given up on him boss and I’s cutting him loose”. Not if he want’s to have chicken on the table instead of hard boiled eggs. Wouldn’t George the Dollar Keeper start wondering about his inmates? That would certainly give George six million doubts. Savard will do anything, including dig up the flower bed in order to get rid of Audi. We know that he has tried to trade him already and there was no takers. Could the shock and reality of second hand and rusty Audi’s make Savard very cautious about trading for more salary or trading for an older player? I’m still dumbfounded why he went for this old, expensive jalopy.
Talking about jalopies. What makes you think that Gilmour will take anything less then a prominent spot on the second line? Gilmour has a lot of pride,(because he certainly does not have the legs) and nothing less then prime time suits him. He has a history of whining and threatening, especially to Savard. Gilmour is nothing more then an old, one horned billy goat who should have been souvlaki last year. Yet another “re-signing” that our poor and misquided GM made. It will be golfing time before Gilmour concedes to that.
What is all this Viagra for Hossa? When I saw him last, he seemed a little lackadaisical and disinterested. Sort of like our defence. A better bet, albeit marginally, is Ward. More size less speed, more filling. Sort of like my old wife’s implants. The kid has shown a scoring touch in kindergarden and he might as well get a shot. Mind you, they will need a traffic light for all the player movements.
As far as Ribs is concerned, I think it’s a waste of time. What I saw tonight reinforced what we saw last year. Basically, a comic book 97 pound weakling playing in a bad boys world. He ain’t gonna do it for us and why keep trying? Some poor defenceman is going to crush him against the boards and he will get injured. Oop’s, it already happened.
I don’t believe we are going to get anywhere this year. I really don’t. What I saw tonight and last time and the time before that is a team that has stopped trying. Perhaps the give it the old mercenary-dollar try for a shift, a period or even a game but overall, POOF.
The only change of any consequence is to change the caretaker Therrien. If Savard does not do something then he is letting the caretaker put the nails on the coffin and he’s already dug the hole.
P.S. Don’t try to bury me, I still carry my sp00n.
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 1, 2002 2:44:09 GMT -5
Well HA.... Yes, I would love to have bigger as well as talented players. You may not remember (being a geezer...ahem) that I was one of the earliest on this board to campaign for a big center. It would be wonderful to have a trade that would answer this problem. But since teams aren't lining up at the moment to give us those players for hand me downs, especially what appears to be a permanently damaged one like Audette, I was simply suggesting something that was within our own power to accomplish. Yes indeed I would like to see AS acquire a big talented center or a big talented winger. But let's face it, AS isn't likely going to be able to pull this off (and I'm sure that he's trying), at least not until someone gets desparate for something they think we have and that isn't a key to the team's future (kind of narrows it down, huh) and that's likely going to take a while. I'd also like MT to be replaced by a good, proven NHL coach but I guess I have different views of some of the candidates muted about at present, ie I'm not too keen on them. I could be wrong on this tho and if AS were to come up with someone he thought could do it then I'd say go for it. So barring that and being realistic: 1) Czerkawski's healthy, Audette's damaged goods. He's never recovered from his injury enough to become the scorer that he was. 2) so what's the alternative for Audette if he doesn't improve dramatically? If he can't be traded (and I'm very skeptical that he can now) keep playing him wasting a roster spot, or risk sitting him and creating discontent, all the while paying him his full salary? Better to get rid of him and at least save 30% of his salary and open up a roster spot for someone who has a chance of being productive. Ergo... 3) put Czerk on the top line so we can at least benefit from those periodic hot streaks that he goes on. He also isn't a midget. 4) playing Gilmour at center maximizes your chances of getting some production from him. What I'm saying is that he's taking a spot on LW where he's neither happy nor productive. Plus he just adds to our size problem on the 2nd line. Put him at center on the 4th line (I doubt that he'd like this but why not try?) where there's at least a chance that he'll be moderately productive and a positive influence. He'd also likely be playing with bigger players so this would minimize his lightweight limitations, unlike now. If he doesn't want this then see if he can be traded and if not buy him out too. 5) that opens a LW spot for Hossa who does have size. Move Bulis up to Perreault's left and put Hossa on Juneua's left. It would be a great place for him to learn how to play in the NHL. Or at least put Kilger on Juneau's left. 6) Playing Ribs as the 4th line center if Gilmour won't do it is in my own mind a strictly stop gap measure. As I've said before we need a big talented center and Ribs obviously isn't the answer. (will you just get in line on this? ) Maybe he'll show enough to be traded for something. Gratton is another stop gap. Personally I would like to see Kilger given the job, grooming him to replace Juneau (over to you BC). He should at least be playing LW on the 4th line regularly. So a solution that: - would be doable right now (which everyone including yourself is baying about) as it doesn't involve any fairy tale deals with other teams. - would introduce some size onto the team, especially if both Hossa and Kilger played regularly. - would eliminate one, maybe two, non productive players and replace them with ones who have real productive potential (Czerk, Hossa). - would eliminate one, maybe two, sources of discontent while leaving the other players happier as they are playing. Sure, it may not be "the" solution, whatever that is, but at least it does something right now that I think would be productive for the reasons given and might settle the team down until that "big" move was able to be pulled off. Just because this is realatively modest (altho it would demand some guts by Savard, no doubt) doesn't mean that it's not worth trying especially as it might be well into the new year (even March) before some trade can be pulled off. It most certainly won't happen because: - of the embarassment factor for AS- could it cost him his job? - of the $ loss involved which the press will jump on. So you can relax and fuss on you ol' grumble puss. Pretty much exactly what I would have said, only you said it in about 3000 less words...
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 1, 2002 9:25:44 GMT -5
Or me in about 5000 fewer words ;D
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