|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2008 9:52:43 GMT -5
... and Gainey in his PC after the deadline said why he didn't trade him for draft picks or nobodies.... " Michael Ryder has a talent that is hard to find in the NHL, we need that talent on our team" ..... in other words, you don't give away 30 goals in the NHL. And if Ryder is to stay in Montreal, Gainey might be the right guy to find out what he heck is distracting this young man. Honestly, Skilly, I have my doubts if he's staying. I think there are just too many teams waiting to make a pitch for him come July 1st. Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on May 26, 2008 10:07:05 GMT -5
I think that whether Ryder stays or not will depend on what Gainey is able to accomplish early in the offseason. And by that I mean who he is able to acquire either through a trade, or through free agency.. If he is able to acquire say Hossa, or to keep with the theme of the thread, Sundin, then it almost certainly means that we'd be going with three pure offensive lines. Which would mean there would be a spot for Ryder.
AK - Plekanec - Kovalev
SK - Koivu - Higgins
Ryder - Sundin - Latendresse
Begin - Lapierre - Kostopoulos
(Chipchura)
Or however you want to line them up. Subsitute Hossa for Sundin if you like, and you still have nine "offensive" players, if you include Ryder.
On the other hand, if Gainey is unable to land that big-name offensive guy, then by default almost Chipchura gets a full-time spot on the team. Which means that you're looking at a more defensive, shut-down line. While Higgins could handle that, Ryder - and even Latendresse - probably could not. Which means Ryder would probably be shuffled off in favor of a more defensive, third-line grinding type to play with Chipchura.
I've said it before, but Chipchura is the fly-in-the-ointment, if you ask me. He probably wont be an offensive player, so if you are going to exploit his defensive abilities, then you are going to have to surround him with superior defensive players. Which kind of changes everything about how you approach the off-season, if you ask me...
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 26, 2008 10:49:33 GMT -5
AK - Plekanec - Kovalev SK - Koivu - Higgins Ryder - Sundin - Latendresse Begin - Lapierre - Kostopoulos (Chipchura) I think Sundin would score 30/35 goals from either the second or third lines. On the other hand, playing him on the first line would probably tie up the oppositions' top checkers. In turn, this would free up the second line. Still, I'll believe it when I see it. Just have a hard time seeing Sundin thrusting a dagger into the heart of Leaf Nation. What might be more interesting would be the reception he gets upon his return if he does sign with the Habs. Rewind to the 70's: some buddies and I went to see the Argonauts when they rolled into (then) Landsdowne Park. We went there to specifically boo their new Head Coach, Russ Jackson. But, as soon as Jackson stepped onto the grass he received a standing ovation; so much for our intentions ... we joined in immediately. Fast forward to the return of Guy Lafleur in a Nordique's jersey (a Nords' jersey no less!) ... as soon as he touched the puck we heard "GUY, GUY, GUY" rocking the Forum. Never seen the likes. Wonder if Leaf Nation would be so respectful towards Sundin? Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on May 26, 2008 13:28:40 GMT -5
Wonder if Leaf Nation would be so respectful towards Sundin? Cheers. Throughout Sundin's career in Toronto, the fans have been anywhere from hot to downright cold with respect to him. UNTIL....he got his 500th goal on Oct. 14, 2006. Since then, he's been an absolute saint. It's as if the Leafs' fans and media finally said, "Hey, this guy's really good." With the exception of Mogilny and Nieuwendyk, the Leafs haven't really furnished him with any support at all, which makes his 500+ goals even more remarkable. Now....would the Leafs' fans turn on him if he signed elsewhere? Hard to say. I think a majority would be furious if he did--leaving Toronto with nothing instead of agreeing to be traded at the deadline for something in return. I don't think he'll sign with another team. He'll either announce his retirement come July, or he'll re-sign with the Leafs. |
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on May 28, 2008 18:09:38 GMT -5
Is the plot thickening? SUNDIN: LEAFS JUST ONE OF MANY OPTIONS FOR NEXT SEASONPITTSBURGH - On a day that Alex Ovechkin accepted two of the NHL's top awards and the puck dropped for Game 3 of the Stanley Cup final, the Toronto Maple Leafs still found a way to steal some of the spotlight.
Mats Sundin raised some eyebrows when he hinted playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs wasn't his only option for next season. The Leafs captain, who accepted the Mark Messier Leadership Award on Wednesday, is an unrestricted free agent July 1.
"I do think that I have a lot of different options I can explore," Sundin said. "And I think I still remain (maintain) that I want to end my career as a Toronto Maple Leaf. Saying that, though, the way the situation is right now, I don't have everything in my control, either. There's got to be a mutual agreement there.
"At this point, I don't have anything I can say about what's going to happen next year personally. I don't know."The rest, including Montreal talk |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 28, 2008 19:53:27 GMT -5
I heard a bit on this on Molson's That's Hockey earlier this evening. What's interesting about this article is that Detroit could also be interested. If Sundin is serious in that he wants a Cup then Detroit would be a no brainer for him.
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 29, 2008 12:11:18 GMT -5
Basically an extension of BC's post earlier. I don't have a crystal ball but I think Sundin is pretty much gone from Toronto. The phrases where he uses "... (things) are out of my control" remind me of another player who used the same phrases before he finally left Ottawa. The "dream" reference also reminds me of Shane Corson's bolf from Montreal as well. I also don't like the timing the TO media either. They simply can't wait until the end of the playoffs. From today's Toronto Star. Sundin ponders life without Leafs
May 29, 2008 04:30 AM
Paul Hunter
SPORTS REPORTER
PITTSBURGH–Mats Sundin has opened the door to playing somewhere other than with the Toronto Maple Leafs next season.
And it may be the Leafs' management follies that ultimately push him through it.
"My dream and the best scenario would be if I ended my career as a Toronto Maple Leaf. That hasn't changed. But I'm not going to say that I'm not going to play anywhere else either, because I'm not really in control of that," Sundin said after an NHL awards ceremony here yesterday.
"It feels like my decision is going to come after there's going to be some other stuff going on with the Toronto Maple Leafs and I'll see what happens there. I'll have to make my decision after that. (I see this as a disclaimer. Quite possibly he's already made up his mind.)
"I do think I have a lot of different options I can explore."
It was typical Sundin, a statement but with qualifiers and vagaries and, as always, layered with an unwavering loyalty to the Leafs.
But Sundin seemed more willing than ever yesterday to publicly examine the reality of the Leafs' situation, and the possibility of moving on, after he picked up the Mark Messier Leadership Award at a luncheon.
He said he wants a firm understanding of what is going on with the Leafs' front office before he signs, if he signs, in Toronto. He left the impression that if he doesn't like what he hears, he'll be gone.
"I'd like to know what's going to happen in the general manager position, whether Cliff (Fletcher) is going to be in charge this year or is there a new guy going to be coming in? I do think that's going to be important," he said. "Obviously, what's going to happen in Toronto is going to be very interesting. And it's going to affect my decision in the future."
Telling, too, was the time frame he is now putting on his decision about whether he will return to Toronto for a 14th season. The expectation had been that he would let the Leafs know his intentions in early June. Now, he's saying it could be another four to six weeks before he decides.
Not only does that give more time to Toronto to sort out its front-office confusion, it also takes Sundin into the free-agency period that begins July 1. That's when his $5.5 million contract will expire.
The word in NHL circles is that Sundin's friends and his agent, J.P. Barry, have been urging the 37-year-old at least explore the possibilities as an unrestricted free agent, even if he does ultimately re-sign with the Leafs. Montreal and Detroit, two teams that pursued the centre at the trade deadline, are thought to be very interested.
When told of Sundin's new time frame yesterday, Fletcher theorized that Sundin "maybe wants to have a look to see what is out there in free agency, which is his right."
Sundin, who has been at home in Sweden, plans on being in Toronto until Sunday and Fletcher is counting on sitting down with him before he flies home. Sundin, however, seemed unaware of any meeting and said hadn't talked to the interim GM since the end of the season.
That might be a communication breakdown as Fletcher said he recently spoke to Barry and the agent is going to arrange the get-together.
When told of Sundin's arm's-length approach to a future in Toronto until the team's management situation is clarified, Fletcher said there are things he will be able to share with his captain that aren't for public consumption.
"That why I think it's important that we have this meeting," said Fletcher. "I'm sure there are also things he'll tell me that he wouldn't express in the media."
Sundin, who is getting married this summer, said he won't come back in a supporting role; he wants to be a key contributor with the Leafs or elsewhere.
"I felt very strong on the ice this year and I felt I had as good of a year as I've had in my past 10 years, maybe. Maybe that would be an argument for me to play next year. But I don't know. I don't have a decision on that made yet," Sundin said.
"I think, personally, I want to be able to play at the level that I have the last little while. ... (I'd) find it tough for me to have a smaller role on the team, too, to continue my career. So we'll see what happens."www.thestar.com/Sports/article/432738Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by CrocRob on May 29, 2008 13:20:12 GMT -5
I need to stop thinking about this stuff until late June.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on May 30, 2008 18:08:08 GMT -5
Was listening to CKAC today and Pierre Lebrun says that according to his most reliable source around the HABS, that indeed Montreal offered Toronto Higgins and first for Sundin at the deadline.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yossarian on May 30, 2008 18:22:01 GMT -5
Gord Kirke, the man hired to select the Leafs new boss, said on the FAN 590 this evening that they are in no hurray, and they very likely will not have a new GM in place prior to the draft and July 1.
Sundin wants to know the direction of the team before he decides where (and whether he wants to) play. Since the Leafs likely won't know themselves, betting that he will return to the Leafs sounds more and more like a losing bet. There may likely be enough enticing offers on July 1 for Sundin not to bother waiting around for the Leafs to decide on their future.
If the Habs have interest, (and they absolutely should) they will have to compete with Detroit, who are closer to a Cup, and have a host of other swedes to make things a little more comfortable for him. I don't know what their cap situation is like, but I suspect we would be able to present a more lucrative package. The Sundin plot thickens.
|
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on May 30, 2008 20:36:15 GMT -5
June, 2020 - Thompson- Reuters - Enquirer.
According to Gord Kirke Jr., the Leafs are in no hurry to hire a new GM and will likely not have them in place before July 1st, nor the entry draft. Kirke did confirm that one of their short listed candidates, Clarence Detritus, turned down the job, claiming that he had more autonomy in his current position, serving 10-15 in Kingston for fraud.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on May 31, 2008 12:53:07 GMT -5
I don't know what their cap situation is like, For next year, they stand at 39 with all their main players signed and delivered. Plenty of space in Detroit. We stand at 32 but with a few important pieces to ink. All in all though if the cap ends up at 56 as it is rumored, both Detroit and Montreal can comfortably fit in Sundin at the rumored 8 he wants. It will come down to where Mats wants to go because I suspect there will be more than 2 teams lining up for him. Things going for us: * we are competitive * we play an offensive style (Mats won't end up in a defensive system) * we're in the East (less travel time) * he's somwhat familiar to the surroundings since he played in Quebec. |
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 31, 2008 13:35:12 GMT -5
If Sundin doesn't join the Hab's, St. Josephs Oratory will still be standing on Queen Mary, Quebekers will continue to debate language laws, and George Gillette will still be rich.
It's meaningful only to sell newspapers in Toronto.
Mats is a skilled big ageing hockey player, one of many in the NHL. He is not the key to Montreals next cup.
We will be successful with or without him, with or without Briere, with or without Richards or Lecavallier. We have a strong core of speedy young forwards, a young goaltender and we need a powerforward. We lack a superstar but cups have been won by workers, not superstars. The pieces we are missing can be filled without destroying our youth or chemistry. We finally are getting close and it's the team that will win the cup, not Sundin.
|
|
|
|
Post by cigarviper on May 31, 2008 15:08:53 GMT -5
Gord Kirke, the man hired to select the Leafs new boss, said on the FAN 590 this evening that they are in no hurray, and they very likely will not have a new GM in place prior to the draft and July 1. Sundin wants to know the direction of the team before he decides where (and whether he wants to) play. Since the Leafs likely won't know themselves, betting that he will return to the Leafs sounds more and more like a losing bet. There may likely be enough enticing offers on July 1 for Sundin not to bother waiting around for the Leafs to decide on their future. If the Habs have interest, (and they absolutely should) they will have to compete with Detroit, who are closer to a Cup, and have a host of other swedes to make things a little more comfortable for him. I don't know what their cap situation is like, but I suspect we would be able to present a more lucrative package. The Sundin plot thickens. It conjurs this up for me... www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIHwIoqTPhU |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Jun 2, 2008 17:58:25 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by clear observer on Jun 12, 2008 12:03:58 GMT -5
I don't know what their cap situation is like, For next year, they stand at 39 with all their main players signed and delivered. Plenty of space in Detroit. We stand at 32 but with a few important pieces to ink. All in all though if the cap ends up at 56 as it is rumored, both Detroit and Montreal can comfortably fit in Sundin at the rumored 8 he wants. It will come down to where Mats wants to go because I suspect there will be more than 2 teams lining up for him. Things going for us: * we are competitive * we play an offensive style (Mats won't end up in a defensive system) * we're in the East (less travel time) * he's somwhat familiar to the surroundings since he played in Quebec. * he will be the IMMEDIATE "top-dog". |
|
|
|
Post by habmeister on Jun 12, 2008 13:19:26 GMT -5
give me sundin and hossa and we'll be the favourites in the east. oooooh i got a good feeling about this coming FA season. bob was willing to open the vault for briere and smyth and shanny, but they turned him down because of ________ i have a feeling the quebec tax situation is something that hinders us and the reason why he has to pay 10-15% more.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 12, 2008 15:30:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by HabSolute on Jun 13, 2008 10:36:19 GMT -5
give me sundin and hossa and we'll be the favourites in the east. oooooh i got a good feeling about this coming FA season. bob was willing to open the vault for briere and smyth and shanny, but they turned him down because of ________ i have a feeling the quebec tax situation is something that hinders us and the reason why he has to pay 10-15% more. I don't know..... If Sundin decides to leave the Leafs and go somewhere else, Detroit seems like such a better option for him than Montreal: 1. Much better chance to win the cup (IMO) 2. Already a bunch of felow from Sweeden in Detroit 3. Will go to the ACC only once (maybe not even once) 4. More privacy as far as OFF ice life is concerned.... 5. Montreal is one of the most hated rival of Toronto I don't see why he would pick MTL over Detroit....(money ?...maybe) I, for one, really won't get my hopes to high because I really doubt we will see Mats in a bleu-blanc-rouge jersey. |
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 13, 2008 20:18:08 GMT -5
"It's been known to happen before" ... INDEED! Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 19, 2008 12:06:23 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Strickland of hockeybuzz claims that HABS would like to acquire Sundin's right and Mats would not be against it...
|
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Jun 19, 2008 13:25:36 GMT -5
at what cost Doc? ..one pick probably wouldn't do it.
Would you be willing to part with a second this year and maybe the second we recieved from Wasington next year?... is that enough or too much?
If you think we could get two maybe three decent years out of Mats and he'd sign for sure then it maybe worth it.
HFTO
|
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 19, 2008 13:25:45 GMT -5
Worth remembering that we can sign Sundin, improve the team and not lose anything. UFA's don't cost a young player.
|
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Jun 19, 2008 13:31:26 GMT -5
That always is the preferred route but then you risk somebody else throwing a ridiculous amount of money around which would make an older player like Sundin too unattractive,especially with some bigger names on the horizon the year after next.
Mats seems to be pretty reasonable and I'm sure if he accepted a trade you'd still get him in and around the 5-6 million range and not risk getting into a bidding war with the likes of a Detroit whom have gobs of cash available.
HFTO
|
|
|
|
Post by HabSolute on Jun 19, 2008 14:16:27 GMT -5
That always is the preferred route but then you risk somebody else throwing a ridiculous amount of money around which would make an older player like Sundin too unattractive,especially with some bigger names on the horizon the year after next. Mats seems to be pretty reasonable and I'm sure if he accepted a trade you'd still get him in and around the 5-6 million range and not risk getting into a bidding war with the likes of a Detroit whom have gobs of cash available. HFTO I have a feeling Sundin's pay cheque will look like 7M$...  |
|
|
|
Post by HFTO on Jun 19, 2008 17:07:15 GMT -5
The only real deterent with signing with the Red Wings is the western travel,Sundin although used to it for a good chunk of his time with the Leafs may not want to put his body through all that extra travel which is significant.
It's all speculation and given our track record I just remind myself that Bob's gonna stay the course and it'll still be a few years b4 we come knocking on Stanleys door.It is nice to dream about getting an impact player here but it's been so long I stopped.
Lets hope we can find the Redwings golden touch in the draft soon.
Go Habs
HFTO
|
|
|
|
Post by Gogie on Jun 19, 2008 17:28:45 GMT -5
That always is the preferred route but then you risk somebody else throwing a ridiculous amount of money around which would make an older player like Sundin too unattractive,especially with some bigger names on the horizon the year after next. Mats seems to be pretty reasonable and I'm sure if he accepted a trade you'd still get him in and around the 5-6 million range and not risk getting into a bidding war with the likes of a Detroit whom have gobs of cash available. HFTO The only thing you gain by trading for Sundin now is the sole right to negotiate with him up to July 1. Since he's a UFA as of July 1, if he isn't signed before than he's open game for anyone to sign. I don't like the idea of giving up valuable assets for a week or two of sole negotiating rights. If he's willing to play in Montreal next year, he's willing to sign after July 1 as much as he would be willing to before July 1. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 23, 2008 22:28:12 GMT -5
Was listening to CKAC today and Pierre Lebrun says that according to his most reliable source around the HABS, that indeed Montreal offered Toronto Higgins and first for Sundin at the deadline. From Howard Berger's blog: Just as an FYI for fans and media that are convinced Sundin turned down a tangible deal with the Canadiens at the trade deadline. Gainey told me, flat out, in Ottawa over the weekend that no such arrangement was in place. I remember talking with Gainey -- as genuine an article as there is among hockey executives -- at the GM's meetings in Naples, Fla. a week before the deadline. He couldn't speak directly about Sundin, but he did say he'd be open to anything Fletcher might approach him with. And, I guarantee you he wasn't longing for Ian White. Gainey made a similar remark this past weekend. "It didn't matter what I wanted in February unless Cliff was able to approach me with something about Mats. And, he wasn't, because Mats wouldn't waive his [no-movement] clause. So, no, we did not have any sort of deal in place with the Maple Leafs. I was never able to get close to that stage." www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=15850 |
|
