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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 17, 2008 11:21:04 GMT -5
Do I have that right, guys? Sundin Said no to Habs
According to the Toronto Sun, the Swedish had been traded to the Tricolor at the trading deadline in return for Christopher Higgins and three choices (1st, 2nd and 3rd) in the trade. The captain of the Leafs; however, (he) refused to drop his no-trade clause.
Defenseman Tomas Kaberle also refused to drop his no-trade clause for the Philadelphia Flyers it was learned today.
Kaberle would have gone to the Flyers in return for Jeff Carter and a first choice in the draft.
In other words, if the Leafs' veterans had agreed to play in other rinks, Fletcher would have received two young players and three first-round choices.
Fletcher had nevertheless succeeded in disposing of Hal Gill, Chad Kilger and Wade Belak at the deadline in return for draft picks. www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/248085.html |
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Post by franko on Mar 17, 2008 11:32:46 GMT -5
Looks like Sundin wanted to come here (if this is true) as much as I would have wanted him here.
Admittedly he is a decent player (though aging) but he would have been a one-month rental [the idea of which I oppose] . Add to that the fact the we would have had a former Nordique/Leaf in our uni? Blasphemy! And I'm sure the sentiments would have been the same from his perspective: he's been on two Hab-hating teams -- how could he play full-out for us?
If this is true . . .
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Mar 17, 2008 12:04:25 GMT -5
ya, this appeared in Steve Simmons (Toronto Sun) Sunday column...
I don't buy it, at least I don't want to believe that Gainey was willing to package Higs and a 1, 2 and 3 for a broken down Sundin. I, along with a few others I'm sure, would have been livid!
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Post by Polarice on Mar 17, 2008 12:29:56 GMT -5
There's no way the Leafs would have traded him to the Habs. Steve is full of it.
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Post by CrocRob on Mar 17, 2008 12:33:14 GMT -5
There's no way the Leafs would have traded him to the Habs. Steve is full of it. I think they would have. Fletcher was willing to deal Sundin wherever he would have accepted. Man am I glad it didn't happen though (for a variety of reasons) not the least of which is that it sounds like Sundin's season is just about over with a partial groin tear. |
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Post by HabSolute on Mar 17, 2008 12:39:27 GMT -5
Like others, I have a really HARD time believing this. If Gainey was willing to part with Higgins, I think Hossa would be a Habs today. Sundin would have been a rental and the odds of him coming back in July would have been almost ZERO. He will either retire or go back to the Leafs.
Higgins and our first 3 picks ? This makes no sense whatsoever. Simmons has a tendancy to write first, then verify the source after. Him and the Toronto Sun are a perfect match.
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Post by habmeister on Mar 17, 2008 14:09:10 GMT -5
very interesting how this comes out, whatever happenned to keeping this under your hat. how does chris feel now knowing that the team he loves and would bleed for was wanting to deal him and 3 draft picks for a rental. not saying it wasn't a good idea, but why does this need to get leaked??
that is just bush league by fletcher and his staff.
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Post by franko on Mar 17, 2008 14:19:46 GMT -5
Distractions. from jealousy.
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Post by HabSolute on Mar 17, 2008 15:17:43 GMT -5
very interesting how this comes out, whatever happenned to keeping this under your hat. how does chris feel now knowing that the team he loves and would bleed for was wanting to deal him and 3 draft picks for a rental. not saying it wasn't a good idea, but why does this need to get leaked?? that is just bush league by fletcher and his staff. OR this is all speculation bullcrap and Simmons is an idiot. He also said last year that he knew for sure that Sundin absolutely needed hip surgery. I hope that Gainey would come out and say that this is completely false. I know he won't cause he's not the type to comment on rumor, but at least, I hope he will tell Higgins if it's all bullcrap. |
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Post by jkr on Mar 17, 2008 15:37:32 GMT -5
I am always sceptical. How would a reporter know this stuff.Are there that many leaks coming from MLSE?  It's too easy for reporters to write this stuff and, when challenged, cite their so-called confidential sources. |
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Post by jkr on Mar 17, 2008 15:39:19 GMT -5
There's no way the Leafs would have traded him to the Habs. Steve is full of it. I think they would have. Fletcher was willing to deal Sundin wherever he would have accepted. Man am I glad it didn't happen though (for a variety of reasons) not the least of which is that it sounds like Sundin's season is just about over with a partial groin tear. I think so too. Fletcher was the guy that traded Leaf demi-god Wendel Clark. He's made that kind of move before. |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 17, 2008 21:59:48 GMT -5
This is Simmons rehashing old news ... I posted last week that Gord Miller on TSN reported that the Leafs had trade agreement with Montreal , Phlliy and the Isles that would have given them 4 first round draft choices this year.
The deals reported by Miller were:
1) Sundin to the Habs for Higgins, Grabovsky and our 1st rounder
2) Kaberle to Philly for Carter and their first rounder
3) McCabe to Isles for their first rounder and a prosepect.
Multiple sources citing the same thing, that the Habs had a trade for Sundin that included Higgins all signed sealed and delivered, just need the NTC approval.
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Post by HFTO on Mar 17, 2008 22:18:13 GMT -5
The one trade with 3 picks seems way off base considering Sundin's age and the fact that would have left the Habs with only a 4th and 7th pick this year.In 09 the Habs aren't giving anything up.The other point is Sundin would have had to sign for a minimum two years.
If it was Higgins and a first as tough as that would be if Sundin had signed here I would have got over the trade quickly the man is a horse and if he had any team around him would be an MVP canidate.
HFTO
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Post by LoupDogg on Mar 18, 2008 13:23:09 GMT -5
Put me in the "not conviced" category too...
3 draft pick and Higgins? Naaaaaaah.
If we are to believe these reports, Toronto would have so many 1st draft picks... Better believe what they actually have now. A crappy team!
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Post by jkr on Mar 18, 2008 15:29:22 GMT -5
This is Simmons rehashing old news ... I posted last week that Gord Miller on TSN reported that the Leafs had trade agreement with Montreal , Phlliy and the Isles that would have given them 4 first round draft choices this year. The deals reported by Miller were: 1) Sundin to the Habs for Higgins, Grabovsky and our 1st rounder 2) Kaberle to Philly for Carter and their first rounder 3) McCabe to Isles for their first rounder and a prosepect. Multiple sources citing the same thing, that the Habs had a trade for Sundin that included Higgins all signed sealed and delivered, just need the NTC approval. Sundin, Kaberle & McCabe for Higgins, Grabovsky, Carter, Prospect X and three first round picks. Seems like a lot but who knows.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2008 16:08:36 GMT -5
The Sundin deal is a little bit pricey, but not ridiculous; same thing with Kaberle. McCabe, on the other hand, is asking far too much for a powerplay specialist.
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Post by franko on Mar 18, 2008 18:08:51 GMT -5
Sundin, Kaberle & McCabe for Higgins, Grabovsky, Carter, Prospect X and three first round picks. Why? |
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Post by Skilly on Mar 18, 2008 18:19:50 GMT -5
Sundin, Kaberle & McCabe for Higgins, Grabovsky, Carter, Prospect X and three first round picks. Seems like a lot but who knows. Plus they would have their own first rounder .... Miller pondered if the deals went through and the team tanked that they could have possibly ended up with: Higgins, Grabovsky, Carter, Stamkos, Doughty(sp?)....... instant turn around and maybe Sundin returns, maybe not. |
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Post by jkr on Mar 18, 2008 19:43:19 GMT -5
Sundin, Kaberle & McCabe for Higgins, Grabovsky, Carter, Prospect X and three first round picks. Why? I was just combining all the deal into one to make it easier for me to understand. |
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 19, 2008 7:53:17 GMT -5
The Sundin deal is a little bit pricey, but not ridiculous; same thing with Kaberle. McCabe, on the other hand, is asking far too much for a powerplay specialist. I agree. If anything I thought Kaberle should have gotten the Sundin package as well, given how good, young, and cheap he is. The McCabe deal seems a little high, but then we don't know the quality of the prospect, or if anything else was coming back from Toronto with McCabe (which was conveniently left out of the spin leak). Corey Locke type prospect and a 1st for McCabe and a 2nd? Not unreasonable, in my mind. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 19, 2008 9:53:00 GMT -5
I agree. If anything I thought Kaberle should have gotten the Sundin package as well, given how good, young, and cheap he is. The McCabe deal seems a little high, but then we don't know the quality of the prospect, or if anything else was coming back from Toronto with McCabe (which was conveniently left out of the spin leak). Corey Locke type prospect and a 1st for McCabe and a 2nd? Not unreasonable, in my mind. Seems whenever defencemen are involved the price radically changes, more so when they're experienced, NHL-proven defencemen. If the media can be believed, Fletcher had a deal on the table that would have seen Carter and a 1st for Kaberle. On the surface there aren't as many elements (like that term now) moving to Toronto for their premier defenceman. However, I feel Carter is a player who hasn't yet reached his potential and would be more than capable of taking Sundin's place when Matts decides to move. To me, adding a 1st rounder in a deal involving Carter really does prove Kaberle's worth as an impact NHL defenceman. I mean, I'd take Carter before Briere. I'm kind of relieved Toronto's Frozen Five made their choices not to leave. Fletcher could have given his successor an excellent start to rebuilding that franchise. And quickly too. As it is now though ... Cheers. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on May 16, 2008 3:03:36 GMT -5
I'm glad we still have young Higgins instead of a 37 year old ex Nordique-Leaf unrestricted free agent on his way back to Toronto.
That's the kind of shortsighted move that JFJ would make and we see where it got him.
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 21, 2008 11:45:28 GMT -5
That's the kind of shortsighted move that JFJ would make and we see where it got him. ...actually it seems Bob was willing to do it. The guy who did not want to was Mats... |
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Post by CrocRob on May 21, 2008 12:21:22 GMT -5
I'm glad we still have young Higgins instead of a 37 year old ex Nordique-Leaf unrestricted free agent on his way back to Toronto. That's the kind of shortsighted move that JFJ would make and we see where it got him. Huh? JFJ's problem was making poor signings to long and unmovable contracts, not trading assets away. At least, I don't have a big problem with many (any really) of the trades he made during his tenure. In '04, he tried to buy a Cup in a season that was looking like it would be the last he could do it, as a work stoppage was imminent. So he traded for Ron Franchise (4th rd pick), Leetch (2 bit players, 1st '04, 2nd '05), and swapped Ric Jackman for Berehowsky (a wash). None of which are terrible trades. In '05-06, he traded Klee for Suglobov (NJ prolly won that one a bit) after the Leafs were well out of it. In the offseason, he traded Rask for Raycroft. A bad trade in hindsight, but the organization was making a decision between Rask and Pogge, who at the time looked equally talented. Funny enough, Boston actually asked for Pogge. I guess JFJ didn't luck out like Gainey did with the Kovalev trade. In '06-07, he traded for Yanic Perreault (which I thought was a pretty good signing for a team lacking face-off ability) and dealt a couple depth players for picks. Then he dealt his 1st, 2nd, 3rd for Toskala, which in hindsight was (is) an excellent trade. The only trade I really think was bad was the Rask-for-Raycroft trade. But in general he's got a better trading record than even Gainey, I'd say. |
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Post by HabSolute on May 21, 2008 13:05:11 GMT -5
That's the kind of shortsighted move that JFJ would make and we see where it got him. ...actually it seems Bob was willing to do it. The guy who did not want to was Mats... Don't forget that this was according to the Toronto Sun. Not saying it's not true, but you know what I mean ...? According to the Sun, during that time, the Leafs missed on something like 25 picks, 22 young promising talent, 7 superstars, etc.... I'm being sarcastic but almost NONE of those supposed deal with all these teams were NEVER confirmed officially by anyone. Don't forget the TO media recently had Gretzky rumored to GM the Leafs. Higgins, 1st, 2nd, 3rd pick ? For 2 months of Sundin ? It just doesn't seem right ? Also, Gainey had no problem admitting going after Hossa and stop just short of naming names. He would have talked about Sundin too IMO if there was any truth to this rumor. Anyway, I guess we will never know. I suppose because I've lived in TO for 10 years, you hear sooooooo much crap in the paper and on the radio everyday, and 95% is always wrong. It's like the Hockeybuzz of the NHL. They are all crazy. As a side note Doc, did you read this article from Jim Kelley ? He describes what he thinks the media situation has become; interesting. www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/05/15/kelley_gretzky_leafs/ |
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Post by jkr on May 21, 2008 14:58:36 GMT -5
I'm glad we still have young Higgins instead of a 37 year old ex Nordique-Leaf unrestricted free agent on his way back to Toronto. That's the kind of shortsighted move that JFJ would make and we see where it got him. Huh? JFJ's problem was making poor signings to long and unmovable contracts, not trading assets away. At least, I don't have a big problem with many (any really) of the trades he made during his tenure. In '04, he tried to buy a Cup in a season that was looking like it would be the last he could do it, as a work stoppage was imminent. So he traded for Ron Franchise (4th rd pick), Leetch (2 bit players, 1st '04, 2nd '05), and swapped Ric Jackman for Berehowsky (a wash). None of which are terrible trades. In '05-06, he traded Klee for Suglobov (NJ prolly won that one a bit) after the Leafs were well out of it. In the offseason, he traded Rask for Raycroft. A bad trade in hindsight, but the organization was making a decision between Rask and Pogge, who at the time looked equally talented. Funny enough, Boston actually asked for Pogge. I guess JFJ didn't luck out like Gainey did with the Kovalev trade. In '06-07, he traded for Yanic Perreault (which I thought was a pretty good signing for a team lacking face-off ability) and dealt a couple depth players for picks. Then he dealt his 1st, 2nd, 3rd for Toskala, which in hindsight was (is) an excellent trade. The only trade I really think was bad was the Rask-for-Raycroft trade. But in general he's got a better trading record than even Gainey, I'd say. I have to take issue with the amount of times he traded his 1st round picks. He just seemed to lack vision sometimes. Ron Francis for a 4th doesn't sound too bad until you see that Francis was a healthy scratch by the end of the playoffs. The other deal for Toskala - this did turn out well but that trade is marred by two things: Ferguson taking on a stiff like Mark Bell at 2.5 per year and the fact that he traded a prime prospect for a goalie just the year before. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on May 22, 2008 17:37:15 GMT -5
Good read. Mainstream rumors are what they are indeed. Over the last few years it seems what was once speculations became rumors nowadays. Ecklund's almost instant popularity is proof that there is a demand for it too... I do know that Bob is interested in Sundin, I'm not sure what he was ready to give for him though. A top center wouldn't go for cheap and Bob probably did not go to that party offering grabovsky and ferland... |
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Post by cigarviper on May 23, 2008 20:41:59 GMT -5
Good read. Mainstream rumors are what they are indeed. Over the last few years it seems what was once speculations became rumors nowadays. Ecklund's almost instant popularity is proof that there is a demand for it too... I do know that Bob is interested in Sundin, I'm not sure what he was ready to give for him though. A top center wouldn't go for cheap and Bob probably did not go to that party offering grabovsky and ferland... I had a funny feeling that Higgins had a knot in his face since the deadlne came and went. Maybe Higgins and Ryder? That would explain why Ryder wasn't dealt. |
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Post by Skilly on May 26, 2008 8:27:54 GMT -5
Good read. Mainstream rumors are what they are indeed. Over the last few years it seems what was once speculations became rumors nowadays. Ecklund's almost instant popularity is proof that there is a demand for it too... I do know that Bob is interested in Sundin, I'm not sure what he was ready to give for him though. A top center wouldn't go for cheap and Bob probably did not go to that party offering grabovsky and ferland... I had a funny feeling that Higgins had a knot in his face since the deadlne came and went. Maybe Higgins and Ryder? That would explain why Ryder wasn't dealt. I'd love to know the real reason .... From what I heard (pure conjecture albeit), Atlanta wanted Higgins (plus the other pieces) and Bob offered Ryder (and agreed to the other pieces). Atlanta didn't like it and walked away. As I said time and time again .... the ONLY way were going to get any elite player (of Hossa's or Sundin's calibre) was to trade Higgins. Ryder was only going to be had for draft picks or a serviceable third/fourth liner (because thats all he was being used as by Carbo)...... ... and Gainey in his PC after the deadline said why he didn't trade him for draft picks or nobodies.... " Michael Ryder has a talent that is hard to find in the NHL, we need that talent on our team" ..... in other words, you don't give away 30 goals in the NHL. |
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Post by Polarice on May 26, 2008 8:49:22 GMT -5
... and Gainey in his PC after the deadline said why he didn't trade him for draft picks or nobodies.... " Michael Ryder has a talent that is hard to find in the NHL, we need that talent on our team" ..... in other words, you don't give away 30 goals in the NHL. You know Skilly, I really wouldn't be surprised to see Ryder stay in Montreal!! |
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