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Post by stlouis1 on Dec 14, 2003 21:18:57 GMT -5
I was watching ESPN Classic Hockey. They were showing the 93 Stanley Cup series (Montreal Canadians vs. LA Kings). It was a great series and there were some great players on the Canadian Team. What Happened to this team who was responsible in the dismantling of this team. Most of these players and goalie went on to play with other teams and make great contributions and win cups with their new teams. Some of the players are still playing and have come back to haunt the Canadians to this day. If they would have kept the base of the original team and added a couple of free agents, this team would have been a contender for years to come. Looks like someone put a bad spell on management for a long time. Looks like they got screwed on every trade they made in the last 10 yrs and didn't do that great in the drafts either. I was hoping that someone could shed some light on some of the trades. All I can say is that I see some light at the end of the tunnel and that we will have a contender in the next couple of years. The future looks bright! For the Habs
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 14, 2003 23:07:22 GMT -5
Welcome to the board, stlouis1. Please take the time to read the Code of Conduct posted on top of the main discussion board.
'93 didn't seem like it was all that long ago. I think the end started rather quickly when we flinched and traded away Guy Carbonneau. We never recovered fromt that actually.
Then we flinched and brought in Marc Recchi. No one could predicte what Habs-Killer-number-1-John LeClair would have done, but Eric Desjardins departure really killed us as well. Gilbert Dionne was a throw-in who ended up eventually playing in Europe.
Those two moves more than anything started our decline in my honest opinion. Still, Serge Savard did what he could but in the end a change had to be made and both he and Jacques Demers were cashiered.
However, what destroyed the franchise was a gamble by Ronald Corey that Rejean Houle, Mario Tremblay, and Ivan Cournoyer, and their twenty Stanley Cups, would restore les glorieux to the promised land.
Just some opinions on the past.
As for the present, well, the future looks good. Bob Gainey is probably like most of his peers around the league in that he's always keeping the options door open. But, unlike some of his peers, he's a very knowledgeable hockey personality with the experience to back it up. I don't think our team is a bonafide contender right now, but with Gainey running the show we are headed in that direction once again.
How long? Don't know. But, it's going to be fun to watch this team develop.
Good posting to you.
Cheers.
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Post by PTH on Dec 14, 2003 23:34:35 GMT -5
I'd say problems started right after the 94 playoffs, when the team seems to have decided that they couldn't afford a single bad season, and started making huge trades - the Leclair deal, the Roy deal, as well as getting Turgeon and Malakhov. Huge deals like that shake up your team to a great extent, and the deals kept on coming. The deals "per se" weren't all that bad, and if we'd had strong management to try to build up a new core, things could have gone OK, but that's when Houle and Tremblay came in, and they just weren't up to the challenge. If they'd gotten the team, say, right after the 94 playoffs, they would have been much more likely to do decently, just by keeping the core intact, and learning on the job with little tweaks rather than with big moves, that were needed but that they couldn't get right.
By not accepting a need to slightly re-tool in 94 and 95, the team was destroyed, trying to keep it better than it could be.
Also, the economics of the game changed; Montreal went from being a big market that could get guys other teams couldn't afford (Damphousse and Muller come to mind) to being a mid-market team that had to watch its budget, something that has to be linked with good management rather than with an expectation of greatness like we have around here.
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Post by JFM on Dec 15, 2003 0:00:54 GMT -5
I believe that the decline started before these trades. His mostly poor drafts starting in the late 80's to his final draft in 95. I also feel that some of the blame should be given to his boss Ron Corey, who was too hands-on and overzealous on day to day hockey decisions. It also didn't help that S. Savard was giving less time to the hockey operations and more time to his real estate portfolio. The Savard/Corey duo started the damage and Houle & Tremblay continued the bad trends. Here are the 1st rounders from 86-00. And a personal opinion of each choice. 86 Mark Pederson: ugly skating WHL scorer... BUST 87 Andrew Cassels: gritty playmaking centre... GOOD PICK, but given up on much too early. 88 Eric Charron: big slow d-man... BUST 89 Lindsay Vallis: big WHLer... HUGE BUST 90 Turner Stevenson: big grinding WHLer, solid NHLer... PICKED TOO EARLY FOR WHAT HE OFFERED TALENTWISE. 91 Brent Bilodeau: big but slow WHLer... HUGE BUST. 92 David Wilkie: Talented offensive d man... never put it all together, faded quickly... BUST 93 Saku Koivu: best 1st pick in a looooong time. 94 Brad Brown: big slow talentless d man... BUST 95 Terry Ryan: big scrapping WHL scorer... wanted Shane Doan who was chosen right before the Habs pick... HUGE BUST 96 Matt Higgins: WHL grinder... 1st Houle pick... BUST 97 Jason Ward: grinding forward... decent pick but could've had Marian Hossa selected right after Ward.  98 Eric Chouinard: Q league scorer without heart... closing in on BUST label. 99 no 1st pick... traded for Trevor Linden... 1st choice that year... A. Buturlin: nicely skilled Russian... developing nicely in Super-League but unlikely to ever join the Habs. 00 Ron Hainsey & Marcel Hossa: nicely skilled duo, jury still out on these guys. So couple the bad trades with the poor drafting (especially the 1 st rounders) and you get the current state of the Habs. |
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Post by blaise on Dec 15, 2003 1:19:45 GMT -5
Virtually all the bad developments can be traced back to Molson and Corey. Aside from their inept hockey decisions, the colossal waste of money in constructing the Molson Centre deprived the team of capital needed to retain its good players or sign others. The situation was so bad that the organization was near-comatose until a buyer (Gillett) could be found. At that Gillett was not the best funded owner, the tax situation is unfavorable, and the debt is burdensome. The only lucky break has been the recent appreciation of the Canadian against the US dollar. Moves that were wise rather than lucky were the turnover in management and coaching.
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 15, 2003 8:40:37 GMT -5
Even though the Cup team of 93 was a much solider team than the ones we've seen since 97-98....you can't underestimate the contribution of Patrick Roy. The Habs were a third-place team who found themselves down to Quebec 2 games to 0 in the first round that year....and then Patrick decided to shut the door the rest of the way. 10 overtime wins happen because your goalie keeps you there til you score. He did what Giguere could NOT do last year.
This franchise's fate was sealed when rookie coach Tremblay got into a power struggle with Roy's ego in 1995-96...we're still recovering...
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Post by Polarice on Dec 15, 2003 8:44:30 GMT -5
Back in 93 the Habs were a big power forward type of team. They played the dump and chase style of game and hammered the oppositions defence and created turnovers.
In other words they beat the heck out of the other teams.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Dec 15, 2003 12:34:52 GMT -5
The 1993 was alot more talented then most people give them credit for. Most think it was just Roy stealing each series but a lot of guys like Desjardins, Leclair, Kean and others played a huge role.
The trouble started I think after not doing well in the 94 playoffs and Montreal making the trade with Philly to get Recchi to help the offense. Giving up Leclair proved to be huge, although at that time he was almost a third liner in Montreal. Desjardins was a proven defenseman who should have been kept but was the key player for Philly.
Along with bad drafting the Canadiens were stripped of any depth by giving up players like Craig Conroy, Cassels, Darcy Tucker who were just starting to become NHLer's.
Molson also put huge pressure on Cory after the building of the Molson Centre to cut back spending and this caused them to lose Damphousse and Recchi to free agency for almost nothing.
Bringing in inexperienced management made things worse by making moves to try and get to the playoffs rather then keep status quo and rebuild within.
And then the Roy situation,,,,
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Post by HabbaDasher on Dec 15, 2003 13:06:00 GMT -5
The '93 team was well-balanced.
I agree with those above that the depths the organization has sunken to are attributable to management.
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Post by blaise on Dec 15, 2003 16:14:58 GMT -5
This franchise's fate was sealed when rookie coach Tremblay got into a power struggle with Roy's ego in 1995-96...we're still recovering... As has been posted here several times, Serge Savard was said to be negotiating a trade with Colorado of Roy for Fiset and Nolan in 1995, before Savard and Demers were fired. Houle picked up on this the very same year and traded Roy and Keane to the Avs for Thibault, Rucinsky, and Kovalenko. So apparently there was an issue with Roy before Mario Tremblay was named coach. |
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Post by Raskolnikov76 on Dec 16, 2003 17:36:25 GMT -5
As has been posted here several times, Serge Savard was said to be negotiating a trade with Colorado of Roy for Fiset and Nolan in 1995, before Savard and Demers were fired. Houle picked up on this the very same year and traded Roy and Keane to the Avs for Thibault, Rucinsky, and Kovalenko. So apparently there was an issue with Roy before Mario Tremblay was named coach. Savard also offered Roy to the Nordiques for Lindros. That would have been the worst PR move ever and i'm sure the Nordiques would have surpass the CH as the most popular team in Quebec. |
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Post by sergejean on Dec 16, 2003 18:08:31 GMT -5
I strongly believe that a key factor in the 1993 Stanley Cup win -besides Patrick Roy- is the fact that our team could not be intimidated... I mean our talented guys could play hockey and they were protected by the likes of Todd Ewen, Mario Roberge and Lyle Odelein...
If you look back in 1986, you'll see that we had Chris Nilan and John Kordic to protect the talented players...
I believe that before contending for the Cup, we must earn the respect from our opponent.... Not only do you need speed and skills but you also need muscles to make the opponent pay for any attempt to intimidate...
The Montreal Canadiens were never known as a team of bullies but we were never as soft as the team became
in the late 90's...
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Post by franko on Dec 16, 2003 18:40:51 GMT -5
One more word about the '93 edition of the Habs: heart. Missing today, but coming back I think.
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Post by clan on Dec 16, 2003 19:33:35 GMT -5
Back in 93 the Habs were a big power forward type of team. They played the dump and chase style of game and hammered the oppositions defence and created turnovers. In other words they beat the heck out of the other teams. Uh.. I think you have the 93 team mixed upped with some other team. In Demers own words they were the SMALLEST team he ever coached in the NHL. They had one powerforward;John LeClair. The rest were small to middle sized GRITTY players. |
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Post by blaise on Dec 17, 2003 0:28:15 GMT -5
Savard also offered Roy to the Nordiques for Lindros. That would have been the worst PR move ever and i'm sure the Nordiques would have surpass the CH as the most popular team in Quebec. Roy must have been considered radioactive despite his two Cup wins. What was the inside scoop? Anyone? |
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Post by PTH on Dec 17, 2003 1:18:10 GMT -5
Roy must have been considered radioactive despite his two Cup wins. What was the inside scoop? Anyone? Well, he was making 4 million (a hefty sum at the time, in hockey circles) and wasn't really a superior goalie in the regular season, so the second you aren't a potential contender, his playoff play really has little value. In a way, you could say it's like for Theo now - only imagine if Theo were making 8 million and his ego were becoming a serious problem (which it might be, but that's beside the point) considering his average play..... it leads to people wanting to trade the guy. On both teams, help up front was badly needed. Essentially, ego and salary were far bigger than warranted by his contributions. |
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Post by blaise on Dec 17, 2003 1:34:29 GMT -5
After Roy was banished to Colorado he went on to win two more Cups. The same could happen with Théo, I'm afraid.
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Post by LeafSuck on May 6, 2004 15:05:22 GMT -5
What happened to the 93 team?
here is:
Roy - Traded to Colorado in 96 for Tbo, Rucinsky, Kovalenko. The worst trade in team history
Racicot - Eventually released. I believe he played a few games for LA later in his carer.
Desjardins - Traded to Philly for Recchi in 95. Another horrible trade that we still haven't fully recovered from.
Schneider - Traded to Long Island in 95. Good trade at the time, Turgeon and Malakhov helped, but right now we could definitely use Matt.
Briesbois - Still with us... Amazing isn't it?
Haller - Traded to the Flyers for Yves Racine. Ugh, I hated Racine didn't you?
Daigneault - Dealt to St. Louis for Pat Jablonski.
Ramage - I believe he was dealt to Philly for Chabot?
Odelein - Traded for Richer. Ugh. I never liked Richer and Odelein's toughness was a nice change.
Hill - Picked up by the Ducks in the expansion draft. Ugh again. We could use him right now.
Dufrense - I believe he was picked up by the Lightning in phase II of the expansion draft.
Damphousse - Traded away for a draft pick. BIG UGH.
Bellows - Traded for Bureau. DOH!
Muller - Traded for Turgeon. Good trade, too bad we got nothing for Turgeon.
Savard - Signed a UFA just days after winning the Cup.
Carbonneau - This is painful to type. One of the most loved Habs of all-time was dealt for Jim Montgomery. *&#$
Lebeau - Dealt away for Tugnutt. What a waste of talent.
Keane - Dealt with Roy. STUPID STUPID TRADE.
Dionne - Dealt to the Flyers with Desjardins and LeClair. No harm, he is in Europe.
DiPietro - Believe he was traded to the Leafs, and like My.It's my goal Dionne, he's in Europe.
LeClair - Ugh, we all know
Leeman - Released I believe. Had a brief stint in St.Louis than retired.
Brunet - Traded to Dallas for van Allen I believe
Ewen - Picked up by the Ducks in the ED
Ronan - Can't remember what happened, but I remember him playing for the Sabres.
Roberge - Does it matter?
Belanger - Expansion draft
Petrov - Europe, Habs, Nashville, Europe
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Post by Skilly on Nov 29, 2004 13:31:23 GMT -5
What happened to the 93 team? here is: Roy - Traded to Colorado in 96 for Tbo, Rucinsky, Kovalenko. The worst trade in team history Racicot - Eventually released. I believe he played a few games for LA later in his carer. Desjardins - Traded to Philly for Recchi in 95. Another horrible trade that we still haven't fully recovered from. Schneider - Traded to Long Island in 95. Good trade at the time, Turgeon and Malakhov helped, but right now we could definitely use Matt. Briesbois - Still with us... Amazing isn't it? Haller - Traded to the Flyers for Yves Racine. Ugh, I hated Racine didn't you? Daigneault - Dealt to St. Louis for Pat Jablonski. Ramage - I believe he was dealt to Philly for Chabot? Odelein - Traded for Richer. Ugh. I never liked Richer and Odelein's toughness was a nice change. Hill - Picked up by the Ducks in the expansion draft. Ugh again. We could use him right now. Dufrense - I believe he was picked up by the Lightning in phase II of the expansion draft. Damphousse - Traded away for a draft pick. BIG UGH. Bellows - Traded for Bureau. DOH! Muller - Traded for Turgeon. Good trade, too bad we got nothing for Turgeon. Savard - Signed a UFA just days after winning the Cup. Carbonneau - This is painful to type. One of the most loved Habs of all-time was dealt for Jim Montgomery. *&#$ Lebeau - Dealt away for Tugnutt. What a waste of talent. Keane - Dealt with Roy. STUPID STUPID TRADE. Dionne - Dealt to the Flyers with Desjardins and LeClair. No harm, he is in Europe. DiPietro - Believe he was traded to the Leafs, and like My.It's my goal Dionne, he's in Europe. LeClair - Ugh, we all know Leeman - Released I believe. Had a brief stint in St.Louis than retired. Brunet - Traded to Dallas for van Allen I believe Ewen - Picked up by the Ducks in the ED Ronan - Can't remember what happened, but I remember him playing for the Sabres. Roberge - Does it matter? Belanger - Expansion draft Petrov - Europe, Habs, Nashville, Europe I don't think Petrov played in the playoffs. Well he doesn't have his name on the Stanley Cup anyways, because the 93 team was the last team to win the Stanley Cup without any European players. (Don Cherry's dream) I can't remember the last team to do it prior to the 93 Habs ..... probably the 79 Habs or earlier. |
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