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Post by PTH on Mar 24, 2002 19:01:56 GMT -5
Got this off another board. Interesting thoughts... I tend to think these rumours are credible, given that they involve several lesser lights rather than the big-name deal all fans are waiting for. Robidas, Bulis and Garon for Carter - interesting deal. With Edmonton dealing away 2 D on deadline day, and possibly looking for a goalie to back up and eventually replace Salo, this might seem like an interesting deal for them. Bulis is the kind of project they like to pick up, too. I'm not surprised they turned it down (if it did occur ) but it's still interesting. I can see EDM wanting Hainsey, and the Habs turning them down. If Markov is NOT on the block, I'm happy... Markov seems to be coming around, too.  As to the Kaspar offer, seems roughly equal to what COL gave - a forward and a D, both youngish, and both somewhat NHL proven. Thoughts, complaints, flames and dating tips are welcome !!! |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 24, 2002 20:04:35 GMT -5
PTH, nice work!
Love the Edmonton rumor.Carter would be exactly what we need.A player entering his prime, who has size, speed and great hands.And he is a right-handed shot to boot.Garon will never be a huge part of the puzzle here, Robidas is a spare part and Bulis is a guy who will produce eventually, but you gotta give up something to get something.I can see why Edmonton wanted Hainsey instead of Robidas...Interesting rumor.
The Detroit rumor is laughable.I like Dandenault, but Dougie and Petrov? maybe if we were rebuilding with kids now, but even then...
I also believe the Robidas and Ribeiro for Kaspar deal was on the table.Savard said he offered 2 young NHLers...and they fit the deal.And that deal is obviously a notch above the one Colorado offered.
Great news on Markov.We will only be rewarded if we keep this kid in the fold...he has great offensive skills and is improving defensively.A Hainsey-Markov PP duo is potentially sweeeeeeet ;D
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Post by PTH on Mar 24, 2002 22:24:07 GMT -5
Well, it's just rumours, but they seem to be vaguely credible.
I love the Carter deal too. Maybe it could happen over the summer (hoping beyond hope here...)
As to Detroit - they were just trying to get a playoff boost, I guess. Especially with Yzerman not 100%, a guy like Gilmour would seem like a perfect fill-in.
When you see deals like the Oates deal, and a lot of other weird trades, you figure it's always worth listening - or asking !
I wonder if the Kaspar offer was all that much better than Colorado's.... Robidas isn't all that esteemed right now, and Ribeiro isn't as good as Nieminen.
I was very surprised to see Nieminen traded anyhow - now COL has no power forwards at all. Deadmarsh was traded because he was around, and now he's gone...
Still, it was a competitive offer.
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Post by Johnny Verdun on Mar 24, 2002 23:33:30 GMT -5
I can see why Edmonton wanted Hainsey instead of Robidas.... Okay MP, you just won the first annual HabsRus "Understatement of the Year Award" !! I thought I had a shot at it when I posted that "Traverse seems unlikely to develop into the number one d-man and punishing hitter that I had hoped he'd become...", but you really smoked me with the Hainsey/Robidas thing. I gotta give you credit. I guess you just wanted it more. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 25, 2002 9:38:58 GMT -5
Ouch. That's all I can say looking at the Edmonton deal. One of the OIlers best player for an AHL dmen, a stalled forward prospect that has yet to reach the 10 goals mark in his 5th year and a prospect goalie. Hello?! Highway robbery for Montreal. Not sure I'd give up Hainsey for Carter, but the deal has much better balance with him in the package. We'll have to realize that if we want a significant upgrade on our first 2 lines, it's gonna cost. If Carter is available (and according to this guy he is) he would have been a real nice pickup.
Dandeneault I never liked, but it seems year after year rumor of him coming to Montreal just won't go away.
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Post by Douper on Mar 25, 2002 12:29:31 GMT -5
Nice Rumors!  This Summer I would definatly talk to the Oilers about Carter again. If I were Montreal I would offer Souray, Dykhuis and Bullis for Carter. Could you imagine the pop that would bring to the lineup! Plus if they could find a way to take Big George out of Edmonton too I would be in heavon! AS make it happen!! hehe!! ;D |
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Post by PTH on Mar 25, 2002 14:01:57 GMT -5
Ouch. That's all I can say looking at the Edmonton deal. One of the OIlers best player for an AHL dmen, a stalled forward prospect that has yet to reach the 10 goals mark in his 5th year and a prospect goalie. That's making the Oilers case, you could also say that Robidas is an excellent young D who fits the Oiler style and is just having a sophomore slump which is made worse by playing on the wrong side, say that Bulis is an Oiler-style player who's developing yearly, and Garon is a terrific prospect stuck behind some serious NHL goaltending. I agree it favours the Habs - but hey, if Savard is gonna make an offer, it has to be one that works for us ! I think it's Detroit who wants to pawn him off, using the combined assets of youth and being a francophone to make him interesting to us. |
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Post by PTH on Mar 25, 2002 14:03:39 GMT -5
Nice Rumors! This Summer I would definatly talk to the Oilers about Carter again. If I were Montreal I would offer Souray, Dykhuis and Bullis for Carter. Could you imagine the pop that would bring to the lineup! Plus if they could find a way to take Big George out of Edmonton too I would be in heavon! AS make it happen!! hehe!! ;D I think you know this can't happen - Dykhuis is overpaid for EDM, Souray is the opposite of what the Oilers want (big and slow is not their style), and I think Laraques would be very hard to get. Unless we are looking at trading Zednik for him, or that kind of value, we might as well forget him. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 25, 2002 15:24:56 GMT -5
Well, it's just rumours, but they seem to be vaguely credible. I love the Carter deal too. Maybe it could happen over the summer (hoping beyond hope here...). They really need a goalie of the future.Obviously Salo still has 2 more years left on his deal after this year and Markkanen has been solid in the backup role, but they have no goalie who could take over and offer something close to what Salo is offering now.That is why Garon makes sense for them.I can see why they wanted Hainsey instead of Robidas. Right now, I don't think Carter will be traded this summer, he is still pretty cheap and it looks like the Oil saved enough cash with their deadline deals to get everyone under contract for next year.But, I think we could maybe offer Garon to them for Shawn Horcoff(pretty decent young center, who has size and talent..could be a good #2 guy down the road).. The deal made sense for them...just not us. Our Kaspar offer wasn't good enough.Pittsburgh really wanted somewhat talented but very gritty players.That is exactly what they got...are Robidas and Ribeiro gritty? somewhat, but they are simply not established enough to be considered solid NHL players. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 25, 2002 15:26:27 GMT -5
Okay MP, you just won the first annual HabsRus "Understatement of the Year Award" !! I thought I had a shot at it when I posted that "Traverse seems unlikely to develop into the number one d-man and punishing hitter that I had hoped he'd become...", but you really smoked me with the Hainsey/Robidas thing. I gotta give you credit. I guess you just wanted it more.  ;D ;D |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 25, 2002 15:28:53 GMT -5
Nice Rumors! This Summer I would definatly talk to the Oilers about Carter again. If I were Montreal I would offer Souray, Dykhuis and Bullis for Carter. Could you imagine the pop that would bring to the lineup! Plus if they could find a way to take Big George out of Edmonton too I would be in heavon! AS make it happen!! hehe!! ;D I hate to rain on your parade, but it will take more than that to complete that swap. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 25, 2002 16:08:56 GMT -5
That's making the Oilers case, you could also say that Robidas is an excellent young D who fits the Oiler style and is just having a sophomore slump which is made worse by playing on the wrong side, say that Bulis is an Oiler-style player who's developing yearly, and Garon is a terrific prospect stuck behind some serious NHL goaltending. I agree it favours the Habs - but hey, if Savard is gonna make an offer, it has to be one that works for us ! Well no matter how you might present and/or sale the package, I know I'd prefer Carter to Robidas/Bulis/Garon and I'm not sure there is someone on this planet who wouldn't !!! A nice pitch doesn't always sell a bad product  |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 25, 2002 16:29:33 GMT -5
Well no matter how you might present and/or sale the package, I know I'd prefer Carter to Robidas/Bulis/Garon and I'm not sure there is someone on this planet who wouldn't !!! A nice pitch doesn't always sell a bad product I dunno about that...a team that needs a goalie and help on d...*might* be interested in the Robidas/Garon/Bulis package for a solid, NHL forward...probably not the Oil since they have no need for Garon NOW(they could 2 years from now when Garon will be entering his prime and Salo will be a UFA)... It depends on what the other team sees in Garon IMO. |
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Post by PTH on Mar 25, 2002 18:25:06 GMT -5
Well no matter how you might present and/or sale the package, I know I'd prefer Carter to Robidas/Bulis/Garon and I'm not sure there is someone on this planet who wouldn't !!! A nice pitch doesn't always sell a bad product You never know though. It's always worth making a pitch. This would be a strange deal though, since it's very high risk/very high return for EDM, MTL would be going the safe road. All 3 Habs could be on waivers over the next season, but all 3 could also blossom into a top-2 line winger, a top-4 defenseman and a #1 goalie. There's a lot of personnal bias and personal evaluation in this one (purposefully spelling person(n)al in 2 different ways to be sure to get it right somewhere!) and a GM might have said yes. Might. Definitely worth giving it a try, right ? It's not such a bad offer that it makes anyone look bad ! |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 25, 2002 20:55:25 GMT -5
It's not such a bad offer that it makes anyone look bad ! I think you touch an interesing point there. Last year when Low and Savard did the Kilger/Zholtok deal, it quickly turned into a "steal" for Savard and Low ended up looking like the guy that got hosed big time. Things look different now, but I'm sure Low is now extra cautious when Andre calls him up... Also if you're a GM and a guy like Savard known for his nose for young talent that claims he doesn't want to deal his future, offers you not one, not 2 but 3 of his youngsters, wouldn't you be a little suspicious about the quality of what's heading your way? In any case, if there is any truth to that rumor, I hope Andre follows through with it this summer, there is room to improve the initial bid for sure... |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 25, 2002 21:58:23 GMT -5
Actually, what people forget of the Kilger/Zholtok swap.IF Lowe doesn't make that move, Mike Comrie never signs with him.He needed to find $$ and by dealing Kilger and his what? 1 million+ salary for Zholtok and his meagre 400 K salary he found enough to sign Comrie who is looking more and more like a potential Joe Sakic...ok,that may be a little bit too optimistic...but dude has 30 goals in his first complete NHL season.
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Post by PTH on Mar 26, 2002 2:09:44 GMT -5
I think you touch an interesing point there. Last year when Low and Savard did the Kilger/Zholtok deal, it quickly turned into a "steal" for Savard and Low ended up looking like the guy that got hosed big time. Things look different now, but I'm sure Low is now extra cautious when Andre calls him up... Also if you're a GM and a guy like Savard known for his nose for young talent that claims he doesn't want to deal his future, offers you not one, not 2 but 3 of his youngsters, wouldn't you be a little suspicious about the quality of what's heading your way? <br> In any case, if there is any truth to that rumor, I hope Andre follows through with it this summer, there is room to improve the initial bid for sure... Given that Kilger was a salary dump in large part, I don't think Lowe thinks he was "had". I wouldn't be surprised to see Kilger forced to take a qualitying offer for a 1 year deal or take a long-term deal for 750K or so. players want some security, after all.... just goes to show the guys value isn't all that high, IMO. Sometimes we forget how many times MTL has gotten players other teams didn't want for salary reasons - Muller, Turgeon, Damphousse, Linden, Quintal (twice), Dykhuis (most likely), Audette - we've gotten to benefit from a number of salary dumps. Kilger is one of those. What we can never know with the trade offer is if these guys were discussed before. We hear these trade proposals, but perhaps Lowe has called Savard about each of these players in the past. Maybe he didn't want to give up a prime asset, but maybe he'd be willing to give up surprising value for these guys - who knows. It's also possible they'd never talked about any of these guys and Lowe thinks they're all horsedung though. Both POV could be argued pretty well.... Robidas was great last year, but is awful this year, and at his size, you need to be a reliable guy, he can't be a #7 guy IMO Garon is a terrific prospect who's running out of time... Bulis is an aging project who's slowly turning into a suspect. All 3 might be worth a 2nd rounder each.... or a 7th rounder for all 3, depending on the GM. |
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Post by PTH on Mar 26, 2002 2:15:23 GMT -5
Actually, what people forget of the Kilger/Zholtok swap.IF Lowe doesn't make that move, Mike Comrie never signs with him.He needed to find $$ and by dealing Kilger and his what? 1 million+ salary for Zholtok and his meagre 400 K salary he found enough to sign Comrie..... Interesting take - might explain why Lowe wanted to dump some salary in such a rush. I knew the deal was a salary dump, but never made the link with Comrie's mid-season signing. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 26, 2002 17:00:33 GMT -5
Interesting take - might explain why Lowe wanted to dump some salary in such a rush. I knew the deal was a salary dump, but never made the link with Comrie's mid-season signing. Yup, so I am sure NO ONE in Oiler land is crying over the loss of both Kilger and Zholtok for nothing...after all, they got a future all-star signed... |
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