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Post by Yeti on Mar 19, 2002 7:56:53 GMT -5
Bure is now a Rangers and he went for peanuts. It would have been easy for many team to match the Ranger offer in terms of players and picks. So obviously it comes down to money... Really ? We were ready to give Martin Lapointe 5 millions per year ? We are hoping Savard will get Sellane or Holik this summer, those 2 will be asking for 6-8 millions per year. Rangers got rid of Ulanov (2 millions) in the deal, so they took 8 millions on salary. I have no problem to add Holik instead of Bure, the problem is we will be competing with 8-10 other clubs for his services, chances are we will come back empty... Do you know how easy it must be to build marketing strategies around Bure and generate income from that ? I just don't get it. If we have 6-8 millions to spend next summer, why not spend them now, in exchange for ONE prospect and a few picks you get the best goal scorer in the league. In the summer, we let Berezin walk away as a RFA and save 3 millions. I guess it's not that simple, please enlighten me...  |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 19, 2002 8:24:57 GMT -5
just speculation on my part, but the words 'salary dump', 'salary cap', 'lock out' and 'collective bargaining agreement' pop into my head.
here's my translation of an excellent article on the subject from la presse a couple of months ago.
Aubut Sounds the Alarm
Mathias Brunet
La Presse
In 1994, when he was at the head of the Nordiques, Marcel Aubut had shown himself to be one of the most savage hardline partisans during the renewal of the collective agreement.
As chance had it we were seated side by side on the flight to Los Angeles.
Marcel Aubut was going to the allstar game as a guest of the NHL. He was going to renew acquaintance with certain former colleagues. Even if he had sold the Nordiques six years ago, Aubut remains very up-to-date with what occurs in hockey.
What he currently sees leads him to predict a hard battle during the forthcoming collective bargaining negotiations in 2004. And probably a strike.
Aubut was one of the leaders of a group of intransigent owners at the time of the lockout which paralysed the NHL for a few months in 1994. When the owners finally yielded in December, he declared that the absence of a wage ceiling was going to kill the industry and that several Canadian teams were not going to be able to survive without a system of revenue sharing.
Marcel Aubut wasn't wrong. In the years which followed, the Winnipeg Jets and the Nordiques were forced to sell. The Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers are staggering financially. And salaries have spiralled out of control.
The former owner of the Nordiques doesn't yet dare to predict a work stoppage during the 2004-2005 season, but he wouldn't be shocked to see it happen.
"That will be an extremely difficult time. Because this time, the owners don't have the right to miss their shot. It's necessary that the NHL normalize its operations again. And when I say that the conflict could be long and difficult, it's because it will be less expensive for the owners to cease operating for a year than to continue to operate with current costs.
"As well, several current owners are richer than in 1994 because more powerful men have acquired teams. They have deep pockets and can thus hold out longer if there is a strike. Moreover, the majority of owners were about to build new arenas in 1994; they had much to lose because of a prolonged strike. That's no longer the case today because the new arenas are all built."
Our man estimates that the NHL must definitely win four major points in the next collective agreement. "First, a wage ceiling. It's the most significant element. It's not a question of preventing players from making more money, but rather from making sure that the players do not have too high a percentage of revenues so that the owner can meet his expenses. It's necessary that the whole pie-chart is well defined and balanced.
"It's also necessary to institute a system of revenue sharing similar to that of the NFL, continues Aubut.The strength of the NFL is that all revenues are shared.The teams in the small markets also have a chance to win the Super Bowl."
Aubut also believes that the NHL must come to the aid of the Canadian teams. "It's unthinkable to see that six NHL teams have Canadian money revenues and American currency expenditures. It's necessary to find a system to equalize all that because right now, this state of affairs affects the integrity of the League and it's never good when the integrity of a sport is affected."
Fourth and not least, the former Nordiques owner estimates that a major modification should be made to the salary arbitration system. "One can't let a third party decide an athlete's salary, if this third party doesn't come from the same milieu. It's only in baseball and hockey where one calls upon arbitrators to decide wages and these two sports are in deep Saperlipopette."
And the players' system of free agency? "I don't have a problem with that, it's necessary that it stays in place. What caused the most problems after 1994 was that we couldn't get a salary cap."
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Post by Cranky on Mar 19, 2002 8:35:30 GMT -5
Getting Bure would cost ten million on the bottom line for next year. That is probably the difference between a lot of red ink and bit of black ink. We're fans, we want all the superstars to play for the Habs, BUT Gillett wnats to break even.
I am certain that AS rather spend, if he had it that is, 10 million on a Holik plus pay that huge raise Theo is going to demand. I can see theo asking for 8/2. And getting it.
Besides, I don't think much about Bure and his play. He never back checks, actually, he never goes into the defensive zone at all, he considers it bad karma. Plus, he is one knee surgery away from extinction.
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Post by GNick on Mar 19, 2002 10:09:55 GMT -5
The deal is because of cost cutting on Florida's end. Bure certainly would not be available if not for his contract. The money means nothing to New York. Pavel Bure is a two-time winner of the Maurice Richard Trophy as the league's top goalscorer. Bure scored 58 and 59 goals for the Panthers the last two seasons before injuries limited his games played this year. One of the premier goalscorers in the NHL for a second tier prospect that probably will never make it, a journeyman defenceman who had been banished to the minors for undisciplined play multiply times during his career and a first round pick in a weak draft year. BTW, they also switched second rounders this year.
No matter how injury- prone Bure has been of late, you can never undermine the potential a former five-time 50-goal scorer brings -- twice he hit 60. Moreover, he's only 30 yet.
I agree with Yeti on this one. We could have offered Berezin and maybe a Traverse(Frees up 3.6 million), along with a lesser prospect plus our first rounder. We add 6 million to our payroll but acquire a potential 60 goal guy
Many high skilled Euros are head cases - Jagr, Bure, Yashin, Malahov, Berezin, Hasek, etc... However, if you want their high level of talent on your club that's the gamble you have to take
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 19, 2002 10:37:39 GMT -5
The Bure deal is yet another shot at the NHL integrity in my book. I mean, look at the deal and try not to laugh. What's the corner stone of the deal for the Panthers again? Flip Novak? Have you heard of him before yesterday? Igor Ulanov who cleared waivers a few weeks back? A low first in a slim draft? Come on. We're talking Pavel Bure, you might like him or not, but he's one of the world's best player. Any team could have beaten the Rangers offer easily and happily. The "public" part of the offer that is.
Nobody will convince me that there isn't a huge cash transaction hidden behind this deal and that the NHL wasn't heavily involved in the negociations to make sure that it would happen and that it would have the necessary front to be approved and the necessary "backing" to appeal the Panthers.
Not only does the league look like some Cosa Nostra organization, but every team's GM look like total morons today for not being able to come up with an offer that beats Ulanov, Novak and a first.
A Mickey Mouse league.
I find it all disgusting.
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Post by Ryan on Mar 19, 2002 11:19:38 GMT -5
The business behind the NHL has now become the game, no question. If a mid-level team (budget) like the Panthers can no longer afford a high-priced NHL talent, that player must be dealt between owners, not GMs.
There is so much brokering with the league on these deals it’s not even funny. An owner with a high-priced talent goes to the league and cries that he can’t afford the player anymore, and the franchise would become unstable if the player can’t be moved.
Owners and the league make these types of trades, and then the GMs are filled in on the news after the fact. I know there was a fat check signed by Rangers ownership for the Panthers owner, no doubt about it.
You’re not even trading players anymore, you’re trading contracts. You will NEVER EVER again see two superstars traded for one another provided they’re both under contract. You can get a good return on a superstar (see LA’s trade with COL last year for Blake), but only if that superstar hasn’t hit his payday yet and will commit to signing with a team before the deal is made. Colorado obviously had a contract in place with Blake before the deal was made, it just couldn’t be signed until the summer or they would never give up NHL talent like Deadmarsh and Miller.
I don’t know why we continue to be surprised by these deals. We see it all the time (Jagr for example), but it’s like we want to believe it’s not happening. I sometimes wish I didn’t have the passion for the game that I do so I could just turn the crap off and say screw you to all the owners and players. I just can’t do it though…at least not yet.
Bure was either going to the Rangers, or nowhere at all. Game over.
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Post by Thanatos on Mar 19, 2002 12:20:58 GMT -5
The Bure deal is yet another shot at the NHL integrity in my book. I mean, look at the deal and try not to laugh. What's the corner stone of the deal for the Panthers again? Flip Novak? Have you heard of him before yesterday? Igor Ulanov who cleared waivers a few weeks back? A low first in a slim draft? Come on. We're talking Pavel Bure, you might like him or not, but he's one of the world's best player. Any team could have beaten the Rangers offer easily and happily. The "public" part of the offer that is. Nobody will convince me that there isn't a huge cash transaction hidden behind this deal and that the NHL wasn't heavily involved in the negociations to make sure that it would happen and that it would have the necessary front to be approved and the necessary "backing" to appeal the Panthers. Not only does the league look like some Cosa Nostra organization, but every team's GM look like total morons today for not being able to come up with an offer that beats Ulanov, Novak and a first. A Mickey Mouse league. I find it all disgusting. Doc, as long as you're on a"shooter on the grassy knoll" type of scenario, Pierre McGuire said last week that a league offical told him that it was "imperative" that the Rangers make the playoffs. Now, the Rangers get Bure for next to nothing from Florida. It might just make one think that the someone from the head office called up the Panthers and "suggested" it would be in their best interest to make what alot of people think is a one sided steal for NYR. |
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Post by Andrew on Mar 19, 2002 12:40:32 GMT -5
Both Doc and Ryan make interesting points. It definitely looks as though there's more to it than just a swap of players and picks. If you look at this deal, or the Jagr deal, the trading GMs come out of it looking bad. They both unloaded elite superstars while getting no players of immediate significance in return. Even if Montreal were able to compete for such a player, however, Bure is only under contract for 2 years - which doesn't fit into the Habs longterm plans.
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