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Post by Douper on Mar 13, 2002 15:02:46 GMT -5
I can't say I disagree with this move. The only wrong with this is that it seems that MT and AS don't know what they want out of this team. I mean no wonder they are slumping, changing players all the time will do that for a team.
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 15:39:31 GMT -5
At least he will play 20 minutes per game with the Cits.Beats seeing him in the pressbox.
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Post by Yeti on Mar 13, 2002 15:48:03 GMT -5
Odjick won't play tomorrow, he's on the injured list now, and with Ribeiro down, we have two spots open. Are they crazy enough to go with Robidas and Traverse on the fourth line, grrrr... I hate that... or someone (Hossa, Chouinard ?) is coming from Quebec, or someone via a trade   |
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Post by Andrew on Mar 13, 2002 15:51:23 GMT -5
I think they should leave him there for the remainder of the season as a wake up call. If he's serious about playing in the NHL, then he's going to have to put in some hard work in the weight room, and on the ice, to improve his strength and speed.
I read a good article about Daniel Briere last week at NHL.com. It spoke of how he'd been frustrated with being sent back and forth between the minors and NHL throughout his career. Last summer, he approached one of the World's Strongest Man competitors (who is from the same hometown as Briere), and asked him if he could recommend a strength trainer. The man offered to do it himself, and they worked together all summer. Briere greatly increased the strength in his legs, lower back, and abdomen, without adding much bulk.
Briere recognized that he has the skill and vision to be a solid NHLer, if not a star. What was holding him back was his speed and strength on the puck. Having addressed those limitations, he's enjoying a breakout season. Ribeiro is in a similar situation as Briere was. I hope he has the maturity and work ethic to make the neccessary adjustments to allow him to compete at the NHL level.
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 15:57:03 GMT -5
Odjick won't play tomorrow, he's on the injured list now, and with Ribeiro down, we have two spots open. Are they crazy enough to go with Robidas and Traverse on the fourth line, grrrr... I hate that... or someone (Hossa, Chouinard ?) is coming from Quebec, or someone via a trade Remember, only one of them was in the lineup. So I guess that means Robidas or Traverse will be back in the lineup, not both.Hopefully as 7th d-man and not forwards! play them a minute per game!. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 13, 2002 16:32:52 GMT -5
That's it. That has to be the last we've seen of #71 in Montreal.
If Ribeiro's agent isn't a total Moron he'll move heaven and hearth to get his client outa this organization as quickly as possible. It's obvious the HABS are just making Ribeiro jump through an endless serie of hoops. <br>
The day Ribs gets traded, released, lost to free agency or whatever, I'll be darn happy for him and for all of those who thought he couldn't play this game.
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 17:00:36 GMT -5
That's it. That has to be the last we've seen of #71 in Montreal. If Ribeiro's agent isn't a total Moron he'll move heaven and hearth to get his client outa this organization as quickly as possible. It's obvious the HABS are just making Ribeiro jump through an endless serie of hoops. <br> The day Ribs gets traded, released, lost to free agency or whatever, I'll be darn happy for him and for all of those who thought he couldn't play this game. Wow Doc, are you related to Mike or something? ;D I blame MT for Mike's decline in production since we went down south.Once he started playing Odjick on a scoring line instead of Ribeiro and when he put Mike at RW, it was obvious Mike was gonna struggle.You just can't ask a natural center to switch to LW, then to RW in what? a few months. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 13, 2002 19:53:44 GMT -5
Well Marc, to be totally honnest, this team plays a style I hate, they have no player that I really like, a bonehead coaching staff and I don't see a commitment to a change in a near future. I'm not Ribeiro's #1 fan, but he's a symptom, an image that this team would much rather invest in fringe players, floaters and other team's doubtful prospects then try a different route. Looking at other games on the tube, I must say that the HABS offer one of the most (if not THE MOST) bothersome and frustrating excuse for a hockey game in the league. Year after year. If I hadn't been a fan for so long and wouldn't have had the priviledge of watching actual exciting editions of this team, I certainly wouldn't follow this team now.
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Post by Johnny Verdun on Mar 14, 2002 1:11:40 GMT -5
....I don't see a commitment to a change in a near future. I'm not Ribeiro's #1 fan, but he's a symptom, an image that this team would much rather invest in fringe players, floaters and other team's doubtful prospects then try a different route. Man are you off base. You may not see a commitment to change but the way I see things it's already in progress. Have you forgotten how utterly bankrupt of talent and hope this franchise was 18 months ago? We had guys in the lineup like Ward and Landry, Lind and Campbell, Shannon and Bertrand, and in the minors we had only Garon, Ribeiro and Chouinard that really had any promise at all. Now we have about seven or more good young players in the pipeline and the depth up here to give them a chance to breathe and develop without being thrown into the fire (like Ward was). Rival GMs are not just going to trade you young talent unless they get either young talent or serious and proven vets in return. Savard had very little of either when he took over. He had very little young talent with promise, and not enough depth or talent at the NHL level to just go out and acquire a new team. It had to be done piece by piece from within and with whatever was available and whomever he could persuade to come to Montreal. He did an outstanding job of finding the guys who (especially among the forwards) it would now be difficult to picture this team without. Where would we be without Juneau, Dackell, Perreault and Quintal? You may not think these guys are worldbeaters, and they probably weren't Savard's first choices either, but the team has not folded (yet) and most of these guys have made real contributions. Incidentally, we know Savard would have preferred Hull to Audette and Turgeon to Perreault, and he desperately wanted Lapointe, but you can't kidnap these guys, they have to come of their own will. So he signed the guys he could who could help the team and he did it without (for the most part) giving up any serious picks and without giving up any prospects at all. i suppose you could call that "investing in fringe players" but isn't it really a case of getting the help you need in the short-term (two years or so) while the drafted talent matures and while you continue to troll for free agents? Isn't it really the case that they're investing in the young talent by hanging on to it and that the guys you detest so much are just here as caretakers? The simple fact is that Savard had to keep a team on the ice that wouldn't implode by December and drop to the bottom of the conference (and remember, that the further you drop the more difficult it gets to attract free agents). The goal was quite rightly to compete for a playoff spot and to get one. And he's achieved the first part of that goal despite having been hit with a GMs worst nightmare: your captain, leading playmaker and point getter, your number one center, number one draw and team leader is gone for the season and perhaps longer (if Saku plays again this year it will be a kind of freakish miracle that nobody counted on in September). Then your next nightmare hits: the sniper you get to help with the offensive production gets his arm nearly sliced in half. Gone. Third, one of your two goalies is lost for 90% of the season and he also happened to be your most tradeable asset. Well, soldier on we must. And in spite of it all the team is battling for a playoff spot and the players who represent the future are not being rushed into service. If I have a question it's this: what are you complaining about? That we have Berezin instead of Lapointe? Audette instead of Hull? Perreault instead of Turgeon? Are you upset because Savard (probably) doesn't share your conviction that Ribeiro has what it takes? Are you upset because Traverse has played in like 35 games and you'd prefer to see Hainsey NOW? Are you upset because Savard has decided to secure the NHL talent that he could find as a way of keeping the team afloat while waiting for help to arrive and while continuing to make pitches at free agents? What the hell has he done so wrong that's gotten you so disgusted? If someone says "I don't like the way Markov and Asham are being handled" I can understand that. But if someone says that the approach taken by Savard to dealing with the problems he faced when he came on board (or the ones he's had to deal with since then) has been ill-considered, or stupid -- which is essentially what you're saying -- then I couldn't disagree more strongly. |
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Post by habwest on Mar 14, 2002 4:07:40 GMT -5
Well put Johnny V; I couldn`t have said it better or nearly as well for that matter. There is one thing that we have to remember here and that is that this team is low on talent at the moment and, as you point out, Savard can`t manufacture that out of thin air.
As for Ribiero being that talent I guess we have an area for various opinions. Personally I started out being a real doubter about the guy but then, based on his early performance, thought that he might prove me wrong, which would have been great. But his production really tailed off and you can`t have a player like him on the ice unless he`s producing points. As many have pointed out he`s not a checker or a mucker and if not scoring was becoming a liability.
Having said all of this I don`t absolve Therrien and company of blame either for a variety of reasons that have been disected in great detail here. As for Savard, although one might criticise a specific decision here or there, I think he`s pursuing the right course by not panicking and trading away the future, while in the meantime icing a team, of necessity really, held together by bailing wire and duct tape.
Frankly dreams of true playoff respectability, even if we manage to scrape in, will remain essentially that for another couple or so years until the talent starts to arrive and establish itself in some quantity, that is, if it does. As of now there`s some cause for cautious optimism on that front, especially with the defencemen. Personally, although the Habs may reach the playoffs sooner, I don`t expect to see a truely competitive playoff team until the 2004-2005 season. Heavens, if Komisarek sticks to his guns we might not even see him with the big team until later in the 2004/05 season or even the following year.
As for Ribiero I think Andrew makes a good point. I mean I saw the guy in a t shirt and there`s nothing to him. He doesn`t have sufficient skill to survive on that alone it seems without adding some strength and quickness. So perhaps we`ll see that next year. He now should know for certain what it will take. He`s surprised before, hopefully he`ll do it again. And I`m sure that if he shows something the Habs will give him another shot. After all, they did once and they really cannot afford to not do so again if he looks promising next fall. On that I`m still willing to trust Savard`s judgement.
But in the next little while I`m planning on keeping my expectations down to a realistic level. Better for my blood pressure and all that.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 14, 2002 7:54:29 GMT -5
Very well said JV. I What surprises me is that I thought you were a fence sitter as far as AS work is concerned. But from the tone of this post, it appears that you're butt is firmly planted in his wagon. Shall I send you a St. Savard voodoo doll?
As far as Ribs is concerned, you have written him off completly. You may be wrong. He is an adult, who stands to make millions in today’s NHL and from I read about the kid, he is no fool. I am sure he will see, and his coach'potatoes emphasize, that he needs more strength and first step quickness. Don't be so harsh with poor Doc. Last night, he was found laying by a lamp post, with some trallops panties on one hand and a Jack Daniels 40 on the other, mumbling and cursing “f**k*n Therrien, he ruined my ribs". I'm seriously concerned and a very, very disturbing sight, indeed. I mean, do you really want to see trallops with no panties?
Keep up the great posts, someone has to knock some sense into these bandwagon hoppers. On again, off again, on again.....
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Post by GNick on Mar 14, 2002 17:00:04 GMT -5
I think they should leave him there for the remainder of the season as a wake up call. If he's serious about playing in the NHL, then he's going to have to put in some hard work in the weight room, and on the ice, to improve his strength and speed. I read a good article about Daniel Briere last week at NHL.com. It spoke of how he'd been frustrated with being sent back and forth between the minors and NHL throughout his career. Last summer, he approached one of the World's Strongest Man competitors (who is from the same hometown as Briere), and asked him if he could recommend a strength trainer. The man offered to do it himself, and they worked together all summer. Briere greatly increased the strength in his legs, lower back, and abdomen, without adding much bulk. Briere recognized that he has the skill and vision to be a solid NHLer, if not a star. What was holding him back was his speed and strength on the puck. Having addressed those limitations, he's enjoying a breakout season. Ribeiro is in a similar situation as Briere was. I hope he has the maturity and work ethic to make the neccessary adjustments to allow him to compete at the NHL level. If I was a pro player I wouldn't recommend training like a Strongman competitor does. I entered in the provinicials a few years and you have to be very careful about your back. After a couple of years of training and a few competition appearances I found out is extra hard on back disk and the fluid surrounding the disk. I think that is the main reason the sport has not taken off. Some events aren't like the cruxific but events like the obstacle course and tractor-trailer tire toss are hard on the body For a pro-hockey player, training with Strongmen competitors sounds like a last ditch effort to me. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 14, 2002 18:00:49 GMT -5
Well Marc, to be totally honnest, this team plays a style I hate, they have no player that I really like, a bonehead coaching staff and I don't see a commitment to a change in a near future. I'm not Ribeiro's #1 fan, but he's a symptom, an image that this team would much rather invest in fringe players, floaters and other team's doubtful prospects then try a different route. Looking at other games on the tube, I must say that the HABS offer one of the most (if not THE MOST) bothersome and frustrating excuse for a hockey game in the league. Year after year. If I hadn't been a fan for so long and wouldn't have had the priviledge of watching actual exciting editions of this team, I certainly wouldn't follow this team now. So true, we must really love this team or the sport to be stil fans after seeing this 'entertainment' night after night  |
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Post by Andrew on Mar 15, 2002 3:28:12 GMT -5
If I was a pro player I wouldn't recommend training like a Strongman competitor does. I entered in the provinicials a few years and you have to be very careful about your back. After a couple of years of training and a few competition appearances I found out is extra hard on back disk and the fluid surrounding the disk. I think that is the main reason the sport has not taken off. Some events aren't like the cruxific but events like the obstacle course and tractor-trailer tire toss are hard on the body For a pro-hockey player, training with Strongmen competitors sounds like a last ditch effort to me. I'm not suggesting that he spend his summer flipping cars, or towing semis. My point, however, is that Ribeiro is too slow, and weak on the puck to compete at the NHL level. He has considerable offensive skills, but until he addresses his weaknesses, he has little future in the NHL. |
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