Were we under orders or just plain gutless?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Last time Varada took a run at one of our players, Gilmour retorted in kind and took all sorts of flak for it (and a 1-game suspension). More specifically, Varada deliberately kneed Theodore in the head and Gilmour ended up taking Varada out at the knees; cheap shot for cheap shot. Even though Gilmour stuck up for his goaltender, he still took criticism.

Gilmour has already proven his loyalty, but he's worth more to the club producing the odd point rather than sitting it out in the penalty box.

I didn't see the game but from what I've read here and elsewhere, Varada took a run a Theodore and not one of our players did anything about it again. However, I'm reading on various boards that people want Varada's head. I see by the NHL stats from last night's game that Gino Odjick was in the lineup. Why didn't Gino go after Varada?

I see Quintal was involved in a fight, but I don't see Varada with a fighting major. Were les boys under orders not to touch Varada? Or, are we just gutless? Cheers.

[MPLABBE]

OK, this is what happened:


In the 2nd period, Varada came down the RW, with the puck.Markov lost him, so Andrei grabbed him, Varada crashed the net and when he got in front of Theo, he tried to toss Markov on Theo and tried to knee Theo or something like that.After it happened and the play stopped, Theodore looked and Varada and clearly wanted someone to give the little puke the beating of his life.*sigh*..no one did anything.Also,with about 10 seconds to go,Varada had a great chance on a 2-1, shot on a goal and the horn sounded.I dunno,but MAYBE somebody should have gone after him there?


As for Quintal, he fought with Ray.Odjick also had a fight, I believe with Boulton and Odjick just picked up Boulton and threw him to the ice,like a wrestling match.Hey Gino, go do that in the WWF


And why didn't Gino go after Varada? I have no idea...

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Thanks Marc. I'm still chuckling over the WWF reference.

I looked on the official scoresheet and Gino only played 6:27 through the entire game. I have to ask whether he played most of his time before Varada's incident or after. I'm wondering if he ample opportunity to go after this clown, or if he did, was he under direction to stay cool.

Hard call. Cheers.

[MPLABBE]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

Thanks Marc. I'm still chuckling over the WWF reference.

I looked on the official scoresheet and Gino only played 6:27 through the entire game. I have to ask whether he played most of his time before Varada's incident or after. I'm wondering if he ample opportunity to go after this clown, or if he did, was he under direction to stay cool.

Hard call. Cheers.

I would say no.Ruff seemed to play Varada against one of our top 3 lines and not on 4th line.The Varada incident happened,I would say near the halfway point of the game and Odjick had already played 90% of his game(he started it off with Perreault and Berezin and didn't play with them in the 3rd)

[Doc Holliday]

That would be just plain gutless DIS.  

On the Varada play, the guy simply skated towards Theodore wearing Markov and tried to elbow Theo to the head.  He missed his shot and ended up just pushing Theo in his net.  Nobody touched Varada after the play (Rivet was actually standing in front of Varada), they actually were holding Theo who wanted to take out Varada himself.  Gutless as gutless can be.

Gino?  The guy was making his usual show.  When Quintal took on Ray, Gino was on the ice acting like he was gonna take on the whole Buffalo team, of course he was away from any action in a linesman arms.  When he finally decided to go at it, it was when it didn't mean anything, with a guy that had been a non-factor in the game and he didn't throw one punch he just threw him on the ice and fell over him.

Nobody really wanted to take it upon themselves to turn things around.

Will Savard have to go down in the dressing room like he did in December?

[Bobs_HABit]

Well Dis, I was at the game. Lucky me eh  

I think it was a little of both. They actually came out hitting and the game had a good feel to it. Throughout the first period the players were very yappy and Gilmour had an ongoing argument with someone on the Sabres bench. After Varada's hit (Doc called the play) I thought for sure some fireworks would happen but instead there was nothing. Odjick was benched from midway in the 2nd until early in the 3rd but that was probably for the best. There were a lot of Hab fans there (probably 30%) and you could tell we were all ready to explode if the team would have given us anything. I can understand if we're supposed to believe they didn't want to take a penalty with the game still in reach but this team gave up for the final 5 minutes and that disgusts me. At the very least a message should have been sent. I was shocked to see Varada on the ice near the end of the game. I don't know what we were waiting for.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Doc_Holliday said:

That would be just plain gutless DIS.  <br>
On the Varada play, the guy simply skated towards Theodore wearing Markov and tried to elbow Theo to the head.  He missed his shot and ended up just pushing Theo in his net.  Nobody touched Varada after the play (Rivet was actually standing in front of Varada), they actually were holding Theo who wanted to take out Varada himself.  Gutless as gutless can be.

Gino?  The guy was making his usual show.  When Quintal took on Ray, Gino was on the ice acting like he was gonna take on the whole Buffalo team, of course he was away from any action in a linesman arms.  When he finally decided to go at it, it was when it didn't mean anything, with a guy that had been a non-factor in the game and he didn't throw one punch he just threw him on the ice and fell over him.

Nobody really wanted to take it upon themselves to turn things around.

Will Savard have to go down in the dressing room like he did in December?

You know, I never knew Savard went into the dressing room to sort things out with the guys. If I'm not mistaken, Savard gave Therrien the 1-year extension because he wanted to show the players he had faith in his employee. But, if we need a GM to sort out a team, what good is the coach?

You know yourself what happens to coaches who admit to not knowing what to do about a morale problem in the ranks. They get canned.

I'm wondering what Savard is thinking now? Cheers.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Bobs_HABit said:

Well Dis, I was at the game. Lucky me eh  

I think it was a little of both. They actually came out hitting and the game had a good feel to it. Throughout the first period the players were very yappy and Gilmour had an ongoing argument with someone on the Sabres bench. After Varada's hit (Doc called the play) I thought for sure some fireworks would happen but instead there was nothing. Odjick was benched from midway in the 2nd until early in the 3rd but that was probably for the best. There were a lot of Hab fans there (probably 30%) and you could tell we were all ready to explode if the team would have given us anything. I can understand if we're supposed to believe they didn't want to take a penalty with the game still in reach but this team gave up for the final 5 minutes and that disgusts me. At the very least a message should have been sent. I was shocked to see Varada on the ice near the end of the game. I don't know what we were waiting for.

I'm surprised that 30% of the fans couldn't pump these guys up for a game, Bob. It's still nice that the team can go on the road and know it has support waiting for them but you've simply got to show up, stand up, yadda, yadda, yadda ...

I hope you have better luck at your next game, Bob. Cheers.

[Doc Holliday]

It's really tough to read where Therrien stands.  You actually have the media hyping him for the Jack Adams and Savard giving him an extension because of the improvement the team displays despite key injuries.  On the other hand a vast majority of fans (me included) feel the guy is not the men for the job.

As I said, it will be tough for Savard to justify firing him if the team makes the playoffs:  Do you see Savard going  "...I gave him an extension 6 months ago, he made the playoffs which was our #1 goal and now I fire him...".  

That being said, if Jacques Martin becomes free as a bird this summer, I can't see Savard not picking him up.

[Ryan]

If Therrien is back as coach next season I'm cancelling my subscription to NHL Center Ice.  Seriously I have no reason to watch this team play right now.

I like fast paced, exciting, physical hockey.  Right now the Habs are 0 for 3 in those categories.  There is no system in place, we do anything but utilize our team speed, and we've all seen more hits in figure skating than in Habs' games the last month.

I don't deny that the perfect hockey game for me includes about three fights.  I want good hockey to begin with, and with that has to come hitting and fighting.

Asham - Why are you not sparking things at all anymore like when you first got calledup?  Go after Tucker tonight, show some damn spunk.

Gino - Are you becoming a freaking priest or something?  What the hell is the matter with you?  Beat the hell out of the next person that even looks at your funny man!

Quintal - You've got balls Q, keep up your good work.

Rivet - Rivs I love ya buddy, but you've got to get that edge back you had a couple years ago.  Look at Rhett Warrener and start playing some hard-nose hockey.

Souray - God I'm not even gonna start with you.  Go model for GQ or something, heaven forbid you'd mess up that pretty face of yours by sticking up for a teammate.  I think you're the biggest guy in the league that doesn't fight.  And shut up about Kozlov, Sundin, Lemieux...THEY SCORE!  Get in the line-up and be-head someone you big baby.

The rest of you watch Gilmour, Petrov, and Zed play and please try and exhibit at least some of their heart.

Oh woe is me...I'm going to sleep until Komi is up with the big club.

[MPLABBE]

Doc_Holliday said:

It's really tough to read where Therrien stands.  You actually have the media hyping him for the Jack Adams and Savard giving him an extension because of the improvement the team displays despite key injuries.  On the other hand a vast majority of fans (me included) feel the guy is not the men for the job.

As I said, it will be tough for Savard to justify firing him if the team makes the playoffs:  Do you see Savard going  "...I gave him an extension 6 months ago, he made the playoffs which was our #1 goal and now I fire him...".  <br>
That being said, if Jacques Martin becomes free as a bird this summer, I can't see Savard not picking him up.

IF MT ever steals the Jack Adams award, he should give it to Theodore.

[Andrew]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

I looked on the official scoresheet and Gino only played 6:27 through the entire game. I have to ask whether he played most of his time before Varada's incident or after. I'm wondering if he ample opportunity to go after this clown, or if he did, was he under direction to stay cool.

Hard call. Cheers.

It shouldn't matter how much ice time Gino got.  If he has any worth to his team, he should jump of the bench and go after Verada.  I'm sure most would agree that a 10 game suspension for Gino would be far less detrimental to the team than an injury to their best player.

While that may be a bit extreme, the Habs have to get the message accross that Theo is un-touchable.  If the defense aren't willing to protect him, then Gino, or some other forward, had better be willing to take a suspension to get the point accross.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

While I agree that Varada must be dealt with I'm not of the school that we have to take a suspension to do it. As coach you'd be asking a player to take a suspension for the team, which in financial terms means 10-games worth of his pay goes to the NHL coffers. Would the team pick up the missing salary? Honestly, no. Also, Gino is the only "goon" we have. More specifically, opposing players know his role. If he pots a few goals for us in the process then it's gravy.

But to me, the only problem would seem to be that Gino isn't getting the proper assignments. It's almost as if Therrien has him playing the same role as any other 4th/3rd-liner. What I'm saying is that, Gino's role should be defined given his résumé. Right now, Gino isn't playing his game as regularly as what he could be.

Both Ruff and Varada know they can get away with that sort of stuff against the Habs. And now that we're down to one bonafide NHL goaltender, some teams will pick up on that shortfall. If Gino was hired as an enforcer, he should be premitted to play that role regularly. Cheers.

[Vichab]

This is how I saw it:

Varada beat Markov wide and tried to cut back in. Markovv tried to grab Varada and it was a legit penalty. However not only did Varada keep coming for the net when he got to Theo he gave a liitle extra with his elbow but no direct hit. Being a Hab fan and knowing about the game earlier this season i would have given Varada at least 4 mins. instead of the 2 and maybe even 5 mins. for intent to injure. When i saw this I immediately thought fireworks and that the ref either had not done his homework to know an already volatile situation had just got extreme. But the ref did nothing nor did the Habs. Maybe the ref did do his homework and said this is Mtl. and they won't hit or fight and are wusses so why upset Ruff who seems content with this dirty play.

I spent the rest of the game waitng for someone to hit or cheap shot Varada or Biron who was playing a great game. But no, nothing. It was humiliating to see that our franchise player could be treated like that and there was no response. And let's not get carried away with the discipline logic and not costing the team. Fact is this game was over when it was 3-0 if not before. The 2 points were gone and the only thing left to salvage was some respect, pride, and let Theo know we're behind him. We got none of these. Fact is we're soft up front and not particularly tough on D. Why wasn't Asham playing in the third. Game was gone. Give him some ice time so he can mix it up and rest the others for the game against TO. It's fair to say that this team has no coach and even worse no heart. Ruff and Varada must be laughing.

[MPLABBE]

Andrew said:

It shouldn't matter how much ice time Gino got.  If he has any worth to his team, he should jump of the bench and go after Verada.  I'm sure most would agree that a 10 game suspension for Gino would be far less detrimental to the team than an injury to their best player.

While that may be a bit extreme, the Habs have to get the message accross that Theo is un-touchable.  If the defense aren't willing to protect him, then Gino, or some other forward, had better be willing to take a suspension to get the point accross.

I'm of the opinion that getting Gino away from the team for 10 games will only be good because he brings NOTHING to the table when he doesn't fight and thinks he is a scorer.

[MPLABBE]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

While I agree that Varada must be dealt with I'm not of the school that we have to take a suspension to do it. As coach you'd be asking a player to take a suspension for the team, which in financial terms means 10-games worth of his pay goes to the NHL coffers. Would the team pick up the missing salary? Honestly, no. Also, Gino is the only "goon" we have. More specifically, opposing players know his role. If he pots a few goals for us in the process then it's gravy.

But to me, the only problem would seem to be that Gino isn't getting the proper assignments. It's almost as if Therrien has him playing the same role as any other 4th/3rd-liner. What I'm saying is that, Gino's role should be defined given his résumé. Right now, Gino isn't playing his game as regularly as what he could be.

Both Ruff and Varada know they can get away with that sort of stuff against the Habs. And now that we're down to one bonafide NHL goaltender, some teams will pick up on that shortfall. If Gino was hired as an enforcer, he should be premitted to play that role regularly. Cheers.

I don't even consider Gino a goon anymore.How many real fights(forget the one against Boulton where he put him down like in the WWF or the one against Stock where he barely punched him) has he had this year? 1? 2? I am convinced it's not more than that.The guy needs to go.And Therrien needs to go for playing him with Perreault and Berezin.*eeesh*