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Post by Cranky on Feb 17, 2002 23:37:35 GMT -5
Anyone impressed with the Canadiens yet? To put things in perspective, Canada's win against the German's is equivilant to the Hab's beating the Cit's 3 to 2.  |
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Post by habmeister on Feb 18, 2002 0:20:40 GMT -5
i said it to my buddies tonight, when were more interested in looking at the naked women on the stage at the bar we were at we know the team is in trouble.
i voted bronze, but i'm not sure if we'll get any medal.
Right now i'd rate the teams:
1 USA
2 Sweden
3 Russia
4 Czech
5 Canada
Tomorrow's game is like a medal game for us, it'll give us an easier first game if we win and should get us a medal if we can win tomorrow and our fifth game.
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Post by The New Guy on Feb 18, 2002 0:20:43 GMT -5
I'm begining to lose my faith in the team... really lousy defensive showing against the Sweede's, and then a near-fatal breakdown against Germany in the final frame that almost cost us the game.
What in God's name is going on? It's not like we've got Rob Zaumner out there or something. These are all guys who can play, and play at the ultra-superstar level. This time they player almost two periods of good hockey (ten minutes into the first until ten minutes into the third) but when they were off... sweet mother of Christ were they off.
On the flipside of the coin, you've gotta admire Germany's play - they had a strategy, as boring as a stangle hold 5 man blue line wall is, and they stuck to it like glue. Everyone on the line and the minute the puck crosses it someone shouts some kind of order in german and they all collapse back into their zone and pick it up. Seligb was brilliant in goal and is actually the reason why that game was so close after the second period when it seemed that they had the German system cracked...
Actually - I think therein lie Canada's problem. They try and crack the other teams strategy rather than play one of their own. Where as instead of trying to make those God Damned hail mary passes half way across the ice, they should be making short, crisp passes and playing the body.
Play the body. That should be their mantra going into the Czech game. The teams got lots of talent but not a lot of gritty grinders. If we can grind them to dust we might actually do well next time.
I can only hope that they're holding back so they catch everyone by surprise when the cross overs happen. Wouldn't it be great to see the Canadians suddenly turning on the switch and leaving Russia or the US eating our dust.
Ah well, I can dream. Right now I'd bet on Canada losing the crossover game, which is to bad because it'll be the last time any of those NHL'ers get to go for the gold.
Later
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Post by clear observer on Feb 18, 2002 0:33:59 GMT -5
Boy that game feels like a loss, doesn't it?
Still, it wasn't, and there were some positives. They're two games into it and two games closer to becoming a "TEAM". Until then, they won't win jack squat...BUT, if they do (and I think they will) they're still the favourites and I'm sticking with my original prediction...GOLD.
Too bad they didn't have a month to prepare for this...they'd be unstoppable.
CO
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Post by habmeister on Feb 18, 2002 1:46:27 GMT -5
the canadians are being outcoached. flat out. quinn ain't the man for the job. they should have hired a head coach outside of the nhl that would spend the past year scouting systems and implementing one for the olympics.
its is obvious that a team with canada's talent should be doing much better, but they are very disorganized. that blame is on quinn and gretzky.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 18, 2002 2:20:34 GMT -5
I hate to harp on this, but has anyone noticed Quinns reaction when the other team scores. He has this quizical, "deer in the headlights" look. Compare that to a Bow'master side "glare", look the other direction while thinking, increase his gum chomping rate, then comeback and change earth's gravitational field. <br> Poor Quinn, he takes an assignment that is clearly out of his league and everybody expects him to think of solutions. No deep pockets to buy players, no summer long "thinking". What is a man to do but pray. This Olympic team reminds me of the days I use to organize floor hockey in high school. Get all my freinds together, some teachers, as many girls as possible and get my old man to pay for the pizza and Coke. Gretzky did the same thing. One more note. I read in the TO paper that they had a photo shoot before yesterdays practice. They would have very little time to actually practice anything, however, Gretzky was going to go around and ask everybody to play better. I am not kidding or sarcastic. That is what I read. Can you imagine the conversation with Kariya? Nolan? "I like you to play better, score more goals and organize yourselves out there", says the Great One. Sheesh. |
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Post by Andrew on Feb 18, 2002 2:57:56 GMT -5
These guys have the skill and desire to win. The problem is the coaching strategy. Four years ago we lost to a hot goaltender. In an attempt to avoid a repeat of that, Gretzky has built this team with the idea that we're going to be a freewheeling offensive team. I don't think we have the speed or large ice experience to play that game. They need to build around the Canadian players' strengths: hitting, shooting, and driving to the net. Just gain center, dump it in, have the forwards charge in after it, hitting anything that moves - no fancy stuff.
An article at TSN's site stated: "A source close to the team says a couple of veteran players feel there is a lack of communication between head coach Pat Quinn and the players". It certainly looked that way to me. Sometimes they were dumping it in, other times trying to gain the zone. My guess is that Quinn is trying to implement a strong transition / speed through the neutral zone strategy (at Gretzky's original mandate), and the players aren't buying into it.
Either Gretz and the coaching staff have to swallow their pride and let the players do what they do best, or it'll all be over three days from now.
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Post by Vichab on Feb 18, 2002 3:05:43 GMT -5
I don't like what I see. We're kidding ourselves if we think these games don't mean anything. Aside from giving an early indication of whose ready for the tourny ( and it clearly ain't us) we are putting ourselves in a hole for the medal round which i don't think we can get out of. If we don't win tomorrow then we will play the US or Russia , most likely the latter in the quarters - that's one game elimination for a chance at a medal. If anyone has seen the US or Russia play they know they are much more of a team then we have shown and i don't like our chances. Obviously the more games we can play the better we will get which is why we have to win tommorow so we can play the Finns in an easier game in the quarters and then when we play in the semis we will have played four games and hopefully be playing like a team. TOMMOROW'S GAME IS HUGE. if we lose I predict we will not get a medal.
There are so many things that bother me about this team:
1. For a team full of leaders no one seems to want the role.
2. While everyone has been concerned about our goaltending it seems to me that 4 goals in 2 games is pretty pathetic for such a "star studded" line-up.
3. The coaching staff has shown no ability to adjust to the other teams game plan. Quinn is useless and true to form when anyone criticizes the team he gets hot and testy. Fact is Quinn was the wrong man for the job and we'll soon be looking for Gretzky.
4. the dmen seem incapable of hitting a forward in full flight nor are they even able to dump it in when they hit the red line. How many times tonight did we see a dman try and go thru the wall on the German blueline only to have it poked away and set up a counter attack. The other good teams will burn us if that continues.
As far as goalies Quinn has to go with Brodeur. He was not weak on the goals like Cujo and his puck playing is brilliant and an offensive threat not to mention a big help on defense. If Quinn goes with Cujo then he is more stupid and stubborn than i thought.
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Post by The New Guy on Feb 18, 2002 7:13:15 GMT -5
I agree - although I spent most of the weekend defending Joseph I think Brodeur is the bigger asset on the big ice. He's a one man penalty killing machine (he can flip that puck all the way down the ice himself because the defenders are spread so thin) and he's the one guy who's actually sprung a player with one of those Hail Mary passes.
He was impressive last night, and was only let in one goal (I'm sorry - that one that went off his blocker and then off the the knob of his stick is just pure bad luck).
Hopefully, Quinn sees this and gices him the job.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 18, 2002 9:31:28 GMT -5
Can I wait until after today's game before voting?
If Canada wins today, I say they have a good shot at gold. If they lose, I bet we get that Turkey sandwich.
In my mind, today's game is HUGE. Don't believe all this media spin about how these games mean nothing - win today, and we will probably play the Finns in the crossover game. Lose, and we get the Russians or Americans. Who would you rather face?
If they beat the Czechs today, it will give them the confidence, seriously lacking so far, to lay a whupping on the Finns in the quarter final game. Beat the Finns there, and you enter the semi-final game riding a two-game win streak and the entire country will have forgotten about this little Sweden-Germany fiasco. Even if you then lose the semi-final game, you still have a shot at bronze, which all things considered, is a whole lot better than a couple of slabs of dry white meat stuck on a kaiser.
On the other hand, if we lose to the Czechs, we enter into the quarter final game against a much superior opponent, either the high flying Russians or the home-ice holding Americans. Both have looked much better than Canada has, and if we lose to the Czechs the national histrionics will reach a feverish pitch (and if we time it right they'll be able to here us in Salt Lake, as the commercial goes) and Canada will enter that game with very tightly held sticks. And it ain't a seven game series with lots of recovery time. Lose the semi-final game to the Russians or Americans (neither of which should be considered a huge upset really) and we play for 5th or 6th and four more years of hand wringing. Longer, if as expected, the NHL pulls out of the Olympics.
This is a HUGE game in my opinion.
Having said that, I betcha Quinn comes back with Joseph. I don't think Brodeur was clear and away better than Joseph, and I can't see Quinn snubbing his man without a that clear mandate. I think that's a mistake, personally, as I like Brodeur's puck handling skills, but we will have to see.
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Post by GNick on Feb 18, 2002 10:53:34 GMT -5
I'm going against the grain here and predicting Canada will still win the gold. However, I feel they will tie or lose against the Czech Republic today.
But going into the medal round you will see a fired-up Canadian team win the rest of the way. If I'm one of the top ranked teams the last thing I would want in the world is meeting a firedup Canadian team in a one game playoff.
I feel the team is starting to come together after looking out of place with the big ice and rule changes. The players look nervous and both the Swedes and Germans seemed to be up to playing us more than we were playing them.
In the '84 Canada Cup we lost against the Russians, Swedes and tied the Yanks to finished the round-robin at .500 and in fourth place. The rest is history. The team came together and nobody could touch us
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Post by The New Guy on Feb 18, 2002 11:15:01 GMT -5
GNick...
While I agree that the boys are probably adjusting and just having a hard time doing it (they still pass too much - it's like some great big love in or something), I don't like the idea of them losing todays game.
I'm a computer programmer when I'm not defending curtis Joseph and we have a principle (we have many - trust me) that's abbriviated GIGO. Garbage In - Garbage Out. Essentially - if they don't play well they won't play well because they don't know how. And it's scary to think the game we play today may influence the rest of our tournament.
However, contrary to popular belief, I think a game against the Yanks may be the best thing that could happen to us if we lose tomorrow. Because although the Yanks have home ice, it's kind of like Edmonton playing Calgary. There's going to be quite a few Canadian fans there - I assure you. And we all know how much we want to beat our American cousins. To come up against them may really get the boys charged up. Besides - we naturally play the same type of game they do. Hit them, hit them hard and hit them often until they cry uncle.
Muhahahaha
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Post by Vichab on Feb 18, 2002 11:29:52 GMT -5
I agree that the Yanks might be just what the doctor ordered as they have no better advantage on the big ice and Can fans will show. However I'm not so sure i agree with the hit them game as i think their team is tougher., certainly up front. I think their prob. will be in goal altho Richter seems to be on his game I think that is their weakness and old Dmen. I'd rather the Yanks than the Ruskies.
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Newsy Lalonde
Rookie
One of the early stars of the Canadiens.
Posts: 49
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Post by Newsy Lalonde on Feb 18, 2002 14:08:00 GMT -5
The only proud thing team Canada will have is their beutiful tuques covering thier faces as they scramble home in shame. I`m so upset at our "professionals" that previous Team Canada teams are probalbly ashame to be associated with them. Quinn is way in over his head. Dump and chase on international rink....wow totally poor strategic planning, don't forget Czechs 8 - Germany 2. We are in trouble. USA-Gold, Russia-Silver, Sweden-Bronze,Czech,Canada,Finland,Germany, Belarus.
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Post by GNick on Feb 18, 2002 16:38:28 GMT -5
Canada has a history in international tournaments of starting slowly and then coming on fast and winning it all. Does anybody remember 1972 when we were written off in Russian? In the '84 Canada Cup they did the same thing. Everybody thought we had zero chance of beating Russian and Sweden in the medal rounds. But yet, we blew them away!
It is much to early to write Canada off.
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Post by GNick on Feb 18, 2002 20:33:51 GMT -5
I wonder how many still think Team Canada is dead? You can tell it is getting closer to the medal round. Canada just turned it up a notch tonight.
Next up the Finns on Wednesday. If we win this game we will be in the final four
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Post by Vichab on Feb 19, 2002 1:52:37 GMT -5
I'm starting to get a good feeling about this team. they looked solid today and altho they didn't win they were in the game and that's all you have to do to get a chance at GOLD. Finally Mario stepped up and if he does that i can't see us losing. After watching Mario play with Hasek does anyone have any doubt that if Mario had played in Nagano that he would have scored in the shoot-out?
I don't know if anyone saw Gretzky after the game but this guy is pumped and either he is feeling the pressure or he and the team know they got what it takes. I'm hoping it's the latter and the players follow his lead altho I'd feel better if Wayne was playing as then he could put up. In any event, I wanted to play the Finns in the quarters and that's what we got. Not too easy and not too tough. A good warm up game to get yet a little better. The boys won't take them too lightly after what Russia did. I think I'd rather the Finns over Belarus as too easy and bad habits. I think the boys are starting to circle the wagons and that is the best thing that could happen. Playing the Finns will keep them motivated and sharp. For the first time I'm starting to thimk GOLD.
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